Bank allows people to keep money

Our man in Havana

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1216/wexford.html

Bank of Ireland customers who got twice the amount of money they should have received from an ATM in Enniscorthy last Friday will not have to give the cash back.

One customer went back to the Bank of Ireland ATM in Abbey Square in the town 18 times, while eight people each went back a dozen times on the Friday evening.

The situation was corrected on Saturday morning but not before dozens of people took out cash from the machine.

RTÉ News understands that the bank is out of pocket by around €15,000 because of the mix-up.

Customers received double the amounts of cash they had requested because €20 notes had mistakenly been put into the €10 slot in the machine.

Bank of Ireland has said it will not and cannot debit the account of customers who got extra money due to the error.

A spokeswoman said it is illegal to do so.

It was only ATM cards which were used and no withdrawals were made on credit cards.

The maximum daily withdrawal limit for some ATM cards is €900, meaning that some customers may have got €1,800 cash when they should only have been given half that amount.

There is no obligation on customers to return the money, but a bank spokesperson said they are surprised that not even one customer has been in touch with them saying they got too much money from the machine.

The bank is writing to all customers who got the extra cash telling them it may be appropriate for them to return the money, but that they are not compelled to do so.

I find the last paragraph hillarious!

whiskeyman

I'd love to see the that letter in full

**Timbuk2**

Lucky people, get to keep that money...

BrianD

Not so. The bank is writing to each person seeking the return of the money and each of those people is morally obliged to return that money. It is theft. I count my money after the machine gives it out. Just because the bank can not electronically 'retract' the money from you does not mean that they can not pursue you by other means. One guy went back 18 times!!! If there were €10 in the €20 boxes everybody would be straight into the bank!!

Nuttzz

morally obliged, ha!, worth nothing in front of a judge

Our man in Havana

BrianD wrote:

Not so. The bank is writing to each person seeking the return of the money and each of those people is morally obliged to return that money. It is theft. I count my money after the machine gives it out. Just because the bank can not electronically 'retract' the money from you does not mean that they can not pursue you by other means. One guy went back 18 times!!! If there were €10 in the €20 boxes everybody would be straight into the bank!!

Would it be possible for them to make complaints of theft to the gardai?

BrianD

Nuttzz wrote:

morally obliged, ha!, worth nothing in front of a judge

Well do live in a morally bankrupt nation who sees greed as good. Well I wouldn't like to go in front of the judge and try that one. Furthermore, I wouldn't fancy taking out a loan with the BoI or any other bank for that matter. I'd say his/her actions will be noted and shared.

I am sure the Bank could go to the Gardai. The bank made an error but it doesn't entitle anybody to profit from it. The banks might be pretty greedy and unforgiving themselves but two wrongs don't make a right.

vector

The bank could likely recover the money... The question for them is would the cost of doing so* exceed the return.

*solicitors, bad publicity etc

drdre

i wanted to be there.:mad:

BrianD

vector wrote:

The bank could likely recover the money... The question for them is would the cost of doing so* exceed the return.

*solicitors, bad publicity etc

Well they have already won the first shot in the publicity war by indicating that more than one person withdrew multiple amounts from the machine. Nobody will have much sympathy for them. Though they probably thought he was a modern day Robin Hood.

Could the bank name and shame?

deisemum

If I was one of the people that used the ATM I would feel obliged to return it. I firmly believe in what goes around comes around and as I'm one of the older brigade on this site I've found this to be very true.

Earlier this week I was sent 2 cheques for €80 from Rehab bingo. I was only entitled to one. Several people urged me to keep it but it wouldn't have felt right for me.

I phoned them up the next day and apparently lots of people had gotten duplicate cheques which they had discovered the night before. They said I was the only one who contacted them, who knows others may have done so since I called.

Later that day I felt that my honesty paid off as I got a phonecall from Ray Darcy and won a €500 one4all gift voucher. I've had a very lucky month and have won over €2500 worth of vouchers plus other small prizes and a VIP trip to Anfield for hubby and son the October Bank Holiday weekend.

I wouldn't like to risk doing something morally wrong and risk ruining my good fortune.

BrianD

Yes it is amazing that people who get short changed would be straight on to Joe Duffy moaning and whinging yet when an error is made in their favour the shut up and say nothing. More often then not, if they decide to go do the decent thing most of their friends and family will try to talk them out of it.

Nuttzz

BrianD wrote:

Well do live in a morally bankrupt nation who sees greed as good. Well I wouldn't like to go in front of the judge and try that one. Furthermore, I wouldn't fancy taking out a loan with the BoI or any other bank for that matter. I'd say his/her actions will be noted and shared.

I am sure the Bank could go to the Gardai. The bank made an error but it doesn't entitle anybody to profit from it. The banks might be pretty greedy and unforgiving themselves but two wrongs don't make a right.

The data the share through the ICB is freely available to all and can be changed under the DPA. No offence was committed here, "I" went to the ATM and asked for a tenner and it gave me a twenty, "I" may have repeatedly returned to the ATM but all I asked for was a tenner, it gave me 20's, "I" didnt coerce or deceive the bank, Its no different than me going up to you and saying Brian you owe me a tenner and you handing me a score instead...

BrianD

That arguement does not stand up whatsoever. You are dealing with a machine. The fact that you go back there more than once indicates that you are exploiting a fault in the machine. If we were to follow your logic then the consumer would have no comeback if the consumer was issued with €10's instead of €20's.

In my view an offence of fraud or theft was committed here.

What data are you suggesting can be changed?

Nuttzz

BrianD wrote:

In my view an offence of fraud or theft was committed here.

Thats great, but your views or mine for that matter are not the law of the land. The customer does have a comeback if they request a 20 and get a 10.

BrianD wrote:

What data are you suggesting can be changed?

Banks can only share data relating to your credit history, they cannot share data on your withdrawl activity for example, if that did appear then it can get it removed (not that it would ever appear)

BrianD

Nuttzz wrote:

Thats great, but your views or mine for that matter are not the law of the land. The customer does have a comeback if they request a 20 and get a 10.



Banks can only share data relating to your credit history, they cannot share data on your withdrawl activity for example, if that did appear then it can get it removed (not that it would ever appear)

Yes but the banks also have an informal exchange of information between each other. The old nod and wink is still in existence (for a number of reasons). As I understand many banks prefer a verbal recommendation rather than committing a reference to writing in case there is a dispute a later stage.

So enlighten us, why has the customer got a comeback when the bank doesn't?

It is quite clear that the guy that withdrew the cash 18 times is guilty of theft and the bank should prosecute if he does not offer to repay the money. Whether the law of the land can handle the many changes in technology is another issue.

GreeBo

I doubt people actually got much money
I mean if the slot had 20's instead of 10's it would only give you the 20's if you asked for 10's, right?

so if I ask for 50 it would actually give me 60
2x20 + 1x20 instead of
2x20 + 1x10

Do we know how much anyone actually received?
Im sure the machine had higher denominations than 10's

BrianD

I would say the guy who withdrew money 18 times worked out the combination pretty fast. The amount of money in your account would also also dictate the number of withdrawals. However, you don't have a guarantee on what combination of notes you will receive. If you took out 60 you would probably get a 50 and a 10 or 20x3. I would hazard a guess that he did 18 withdrawals of 10. €180 - less than the cost of a solicitors letter. Pity the didn't mix up the €50's! Perhaps it is not worth more than a polite request from the bank to return the money! It's unusual for a machine to give out all €10 notes. I also wonder if the 10's were in the 20's slot.