internet phone calls to uk?

the_jocky

need to make a few mobile and land calls to the uk and europe over xmas
i hear about some internet companys that are very inexpencive.
would anybody have used these .just need the basic info and is it a rip off etc?

amby666

These types of calls are called voip and can be very cheap to landlines, but not much room to move on mobiles.
Most assume you have a broadband connection and you will need the bandwidth for the call.
If it's only for a few calls, a softphone on your PC will do the job, but for more use an ATA will provide better quality.
There is info on the VOIP forum that should help. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=542

mikeruurds

For landline calls to Europe I would recommend using the acces numbers on www.telestunt.ie... you can call most numbers at the cost of a local call.

I don't work for them or anything

Moriarty

Moved to VOIP.

ikoonman

mikeruurds wrote:

you can call most numbers at the cost of a local call.

I hate to tell you this but you didn't do your homework properly. Blueface is even cheaper.

(And I don't work for them either ... )

Blaster99

Sure, but why go through the hassle of setting up VoIP when you can just lift the phone and dial 1890 943 123?

Blueface is great and all that, but the pre-pay approach is a bit mickey mouse to be honest.

Freddie59

Blaster99 wrote:

Sure, but why go through the hassle of setting up VoIP when you can just lift the phone and dial 1890 943 123?

Blueface is great and all that, but the pre-pay approach is a bit mickey mouse to be honest.

How so?

TinCool

I'm opting for the www.smart076.ie option. No subscription fees. My ATA got delivered this morning so am looking forward to messing about with it this evening.

Boggle

Have you looked into google talk? You both need a gmail account and ye can talk to eachother while online...

Haven't tried it myself yet though...

mikeruurds

My 0.02c worth... telestunt is the dogs if you're calling Oz, NZ, the USA, RSA or anywhere in Europe and you don't want to open accounts with anyone, buy prepaid cards etc.

I only make 4 calls a month to South Africa and the cost me under €4 for approximately 3 hours of talktime... all I have to do is pick up my phone and dial 1890 943 123 and then my destination number. No 3rd party bills etc... all on my normal phone bill.

Aside from using Skype for computer to computer calls I don't think there's a better deal out there. And I HAVE done my research as I have spent the last two years calling my fiancee in South Africa every day.(she's here with me now so that's no longer necessary )

seanpd

I would agree. For price and convenience TeleStunt is the way to go.

TempestSabre

mikeruurds wrote:

My 0.02c worth... telestunt is the dogs if you're calling Oz, NZ, the USA, RSA or anywhere in Europe and you don't want to open accounts with anyone, buy prepaid cards etc.

I only make 4 calls a month to South Africa and the cost me under €4 for approximately 3 hours of talktime... all I have to do is pick up my phone and dial 1890 943 123 and then my destination number. No 3rd party bills etc... all on my normal phone bill.

Aside from using Skype for computer to computer calls I don't think there's a better deal out there. And I HAVE done my research as I have spent the last two years calling my fiancee in South Africa every day.(she's here with me now so that's no longer necessary )

Do you still have to add line rental to that though?

paulm17781

Is Telestunt better value than Blueface? So many destinations for free or next to nothing. Is Telestunt better value than them?

Blaster99

Telestunt is a local call to most landline destinations. That's probably more expensive than Blueface during peak time but probably cheaper during off-peak.

If you have a phone line, it's not worth spending money and hassle on VoIP equipment. The quality of Telestunt varies a bit but it's better than Blueface in my experience (may not always be Blueface's fault of course). Blueface is good to Irish numbers but so far my experience with international numbers has been mixed.

TempestSabre

The cost of blueface is less than the line rental on your phone. For which you get no call value. I would have thought spending money on VOIP is cheaper when you spread the cost over the year. Assuming you don't spend much on the VOIP gear of course.

Blaster99

I get 180 minutes of local and national calls bundled in my line rental. While the line rental is a con, you're at least paying for a piece of maintained wire. You're paying Blueface line rental for what exactly? A UDP port?

We're using Blueface in the office and I think the savings increase substantially with more users/numbers on the account. While the setup has been a complete pain for a variety of reasons, it's still handy to be able to run everything over IP instead of having to deal with separate phone lines.

paulm17781

Blaster99 wrote:

You're paying Blueface line rental for what exactly? A UDP port?

In fairness you're only paying Blueface a tiny amount. They have to make money too. The miniscule amount you give them is surely worth the savings over paying line rental.

Blaster99

The Blueface line rental is €5 which is probably a bit on the pricey side for a UDP port. But I have no issue with Blueface making money. I would guess charging €5 for a UDP port is unsustainable but we'll see.

TempestSabre

Blaster99 wrote:

I get 180 minutes of local and national calls bundled in my line rental. While the line rental is a con, you're at least paying for a piece of maintained wire. You're paying Blueface line rental for what exactly? A UDP port?

We're using Blueface in the office and I think the savings increase substantially with more users/numbers on the account. While the setup has been a complete pain for a variety of reasons, it's still handy to be able to run everything over IP instead of having to deal with separate phone lines.

What package give you 180 mins included in line rental? Is this UTViP? My UTViP doesn't include line rental. Also since my line fails the line test, and theres no means or facility to get it fixed. I'd take issue with the "maintained wire" comment.

The only place I can't no value in Blueface is if you don't use the internet and your line rental + call charges is less than your net connection costs + VOIP costs. I'd assumed the cheapest total cost of (cable/phone rental + internet + call costs + TV package) cost is what makes sense.

For me, since I can only get broadband on NTL its cheaper to ditch my UTViP+Eircom rental.

amby666

You're paying Blueface line rental for what exactly? A UDP port?

Blueface doesn't charge "line" rental. You subscribe to the calls package you want and away you go. Similar to the bundled Eircon offering but a lot cheaper. Blueface bundle phone no's with this.
Or don't subscribe and just use pay as you go. No calls, no charge. Don't think Eircon have a comparable...

To be fair, it's hard to beat Blueface on call costs, but that's not the whole picture. There is line rental and convenience. If you have a broadband product that allows you to replace the Eircon line (cable, wireless..), then the line rental comes out of the equation you just look at Blueface call costs against anyone else + line rental.

For people who have switched to Blueface, most will make calls through proper phones, so it's no real difference, except for cost.

If you're still stuck with Eircon and using a softphone on a PC to call, then telestunt etc wins on convenience.

TempestSabre

I thought I read on the boards that you can unbundle your phone cable so its only for data (broadband). Then you don't pay rental on the line. Perhaps there were some limitations to that though...

amby666

I thought I read on the boards that you can unbundle your phone cable so its only for data (broadband).

BT business broadband as far as I remember.

Blaster99

Eircom gives me 180 min per month as part of line rental or very close to it (might cost another euro or so, can't remember for sure). I never make international calls with anything other than Telestunt, so all they're getting from me is line rental + 1890 calls + mobile calls.

Blueface charges €5 for a phone number, whatever you may think. If you're doing pay-as-you-go, you get no phone number. There's at least another Irish VoIP provider that'll give you a phone number for free.

amby666

Horses for courses.

I get a phone number and 300 minutes (anytime) for 9.99 a month. Ireland, Uk or about 20 other destinations.
And free calls to any Voip number. That's it. No line rental.

It's not a 'mine's bigger than yours' contest. It's what suits you best.

TempestSabre

Blaster99 wrote:

Eircom gives me 180 min per month as part of line rental ....

Which eircon package is that?

Blaster99

I'm only stating the facts, as it happens. If you multiply 300 by Blueface's standard landline rate I think you'll see what I mean. And if you ask them for another number, they'll charge you €5. So you're paying €5 in line rental, or should I say UDP port rental. I suppose they're clever in their marketing or product definition as most people don't seem to realise this, but there you go.

The Eircom package is on their web site somewhere. I can't remember what it's called. They have the package that I'm on and then there's some crazy one where you pay another €20 a month for unlimited calls.

TempestSabre

Your not really comparing like with like. A standard rate against a special package. Why not pick a Blueface special rate, like 99 for 6 months? Perhaps your package suit your usage, my own experience is no matter what eircom do, it always ends up costing me more money in the end.

How much does another number cost from eircom?

amby666

If you multiply 300 by Blueface's standard landline rate I think you'll see what I mean

Aah, I understand now. Out of the 9.99 per month, €5 goes for "line rental".
So the other €4.99 most give me 300 minutes. Even better value than I thought!:D

So, let me do the sums.
I signed up and got an 01 number and an 076 number.
Then I got an 056 number in the UK for the friends to call at local rate.
Then I ported my old Eircon number to Blueface for free.
And it's still only 9.99 per month??

God, I'm going to have to move back to Eircom!:eek: Blueface will never make money like this..


.

Blaster99

TempestSabre wrote:

Your not really comparing like with like. A standard rate against a special package. Why not pick a Blueface special rate, like 99 for 6 months? Perhaps your package suit your usage, my own experience is no matter what eircom do, it always ends up costing me more money in the end.

How much does another number cost from eircom?

I am not comparing anything with anything. I have a phone line. I have to have a phone line. Why would I spend more money on VoIP equipment and Blueface when I would save nothing and get lower call quality? If I needed another number, then perhaps it would be worth doing. If I didn't have a phone line and got BB some other way, then it would be worth looking at VoIP.

I'd say you have Eircom to thank for that €5, as you have been conditioned to believe that €5 is cheap for a UDP port.

And when comparing like with like, I think you need to consider that the BB product you need to get VoIP isn't free either.

MrPudding

Blaster99 wrote:

And when comparing like with like, I think you need to consider that the BB product you need to get VoIP isn't free either.

So to compare. It is either:

line rental + broadband charge + calls

or

broadband charge + Blueface subscription.

I moved to blueface a few months ago. I have one of the more expensive packages which is slightly cheaper than what the line rental was. I no have no call charges and so am saving close to €100 per month.

Like was said, different packages for different people. Blueface suits me. Plus there is another benefit. How can you put a price on telling €ircon to stuff thier line rental up their arse?

MrP

TempestSabre

Blaster99 wrote:

I am not comparing anything with anything. I have a phone line. I have to have a phone line. Why would I spend more money on VoIP equipment and Blueface when I would save nothing and get lower call quality? If I needed another number, then perhaps it would be worth doing. If I didn't have a phone line and got BB some other way, then it would be worth looking at VoIP. I'd say you have Eircom to thank for that €5, as you have been conditioned to believe that €5 is cheap for a UDP port.

And when comparing like with like, I think you need to consider that the BB product you need to get VoIP isn't free either.

You don't need a phone line. (IE the copper) You just need to make calls. If you had a mobile phone that was lower cost than a land line you'd use that. Ditto BB. If you could use Wifi for that, you wouldn't need a line for that either. Ditto TV. IF you only watch Satellite then you wouldn't need a NTL cable.

The point about getting another number was compare eircom price for another number to bluefaces. I dunno why you are fixating on the UDP port. You should only look at the total cost of all the services combined. TV/BB/Phone. How the price is structured is irrelevent, line rental, UDP port, Cable, Set top box, Sat dish etc if the net combined cost is cheaper.

Like I said earlier my best and only solution for BB is NTL. So it makes sense to put as many services through that same line (think of it as infrastucture) as possible.

Obviously NTL BB isn't that common.

Blaster99

MrPudding wrote:

So to compare. It is either:

line rental + broadband charge + calls

or

broadband charge + Blueface subscription.

I moved to blueface a few months ago. I have one of the more expensive packages which is slightly cheaper than what the line rental was. I no have no call charges and so am saving close to €100 per month.

Like was said, different packages for different people. Blueface suits me. Plus there is another benefit. How can you put a price on telling €ircon to stuff thier line rental up their arse?

MrP

Not to harp on about this endlessly as everyone is more or less agreeing and stating the obvious over and over again, but if you were to do a proper comparison between VoIP cost and POTS cost you need to consider that there are vastly many more landlines with just voice than landlines with BB so you can't just assume that all voice customers have BB. If you're Joe Soap NTL user (90% of which don't have their BB product in enabled areas) and you want voice, you would not treat the BB product that you don't want as free. If you're in an NTL BB enabled area and you don't have NTL, you also end up with a TV product that you may not want, considering you can get it all for free with satellite these days. In effect, if you have free satellite then the basic NTL TV charge is like line rental. So it's not as clearcut as you may think.

TempestSabre

Yes but this isn't about Granny O'Brien who doesn't have a PC and only watches RTE on a coat hanger, only ever ringing her sister in kerry, is it. Most people that read this thread are using the web quite a bit. So will (if they can), have BB of some sort.

MrPudding

Blaster99 wrote:

Not to harp on about this endlessly as everyone is more or less agreeing and stating the obvious over and over again, but if you were to do a proper comparison between VoIP cost and POTS cost you need to consider that there are vastly many more landlines with just voice than landlines with BB so you can't just assume that all voice customers have BB. If you're Joe Soap NTL user (90% of which don't have their BB product in enabled areas) and you want voice, you would not treat the BB product that you don't want as free. If you're in an NTL BB enabled area and you don't have NTL, you also end up with a TV product that you may not want, considering you can get it all for free with satellite these days. In effect, if you have free satellite then the basic NTL TV charge is like line rental. So it's not as clearcut as you may think.

Thanks for making my point for me. In my case it works. Obviously if someone did not have broadband there would not be much point in trying to get them set up for VoIP would there? I happen to need broadband I also happen to need to make calls cheaply and I need my relatives in the UK to be able to call me cheaply. I also need to stop paying line rental to thieving, incompetent scumbags. Answer: Blueface.

MrP

MrP

Blaster99

I'm surprised people are happy to pay NTL for their TV service. I'm currently in a contract with them but when that's up, they're gone. That's like €25 a month or something completely wasted.

TempestSabre

Blaster99 wrote:

I'm surprised people are happy to pay NTL for their TV service. I'm currently in a contract with them but when that's up, they're gone. That's like €25 a month or something completely wasted.

Whats that got to do with VOIP?

Blaster99

Because your thinking is that you're getting a good deal by using NTL and Blueface, when in fact you're probably not if you consider that you have to pay for TV that is free. So you have to pay for TV, you have to pay for BB, and you have to pay €5 + calls to Blueface. So that's €19.50 for TV (and I'm being kind as you can get all the digital stations on satellite that costs another €10 with NTL) + €35 for 2Mbps BB + €5 + calls (and I'm being kind as those Blueface packages most likely work in their favour, eg you're paying for calls you probably will not use), so that's €59.50 + calls. Or maybe it's more correct to say €64.49 + mobile calls.

You can get 2Mbps inc line rental from BT for €50 a month, so you've immediately saved at least €9.50 before even making a call.

There is obviously some cost in setting up the satellite stuff to achieve free TV, but it's not really any more expensive than the VoIP equipment so I'll call that fair and square.

TempestSabre

Your not listening are you. My "maintained line" fails the line test. :mad: Explain how I can use BT...:rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50610304&postcount=19

Blaster99

I did the comparison for the benefit of people who have a choice.

paulm17781

But with NTL you get tv. With BT you do not. Whether you watch it or not it is still a provided service and if you throw any tv package on top of BT it is then more expensive then NTL + Blueface.

TempestSabre

Love the way you twist the facts.

Including ALL the equipment and installation fees its.

NTL TV €19.50
NTL BB €25
Blueface €16.50 (99 offer over 12months)
= €61 per month including 6 months of free calls to Irish landlines.

vs

BT is
€25 per month for the first 4 months
€40 per month for every month after
Connection fee €50
=€39.1 a month + TV + Calls. (NOT 25 a month :rolleyes:)

What does the TV equipment, disk, decoder/reciever cost you?

You have to add the additional call costs to both sides. So thats a mute point. Because everyones phone use will be different.

amby666

You know? You're like a kid! You have to keep proving you're right..

I already had NTL - lots of people have. And I get TV chanels on it.
So when NTL offered broadband, 3 months free and cheaper than I was already paying, it was a good deal.
I use it to make my calls (which no matter how you split the cost, still saves me money),
and so I have saved on my BB, saved on my calls and saved on my line rental.
The line that didn't give me TV or radio or anything apart from calls, and that I have now replaced with a converged service.
That saves ME money.

And remember. If you're lost, you've stumbled into a VOIP forum, where someone started a thread about 'internet phone calls to the UK'.

I think the purpose everyone has here is to help each other, not to spend time trying to prove they are right with Eircom, BT, whatever....



.

TempestSabre

If hes right I'd like to hear how. I don't get how its cheaper unless its down to his specific call usage.

I looked at my calls and the biggest expense was UK and landline calls. I use my mobile for mobiles calls and the biggest part of that was txt uk and Ireland and to my other half. So I moved us to O2 for 6 months free and use their online txt for free txt messages. Saved us a bundle over Vodafone and Meteor.

Since I can't get BB on my phone I see it as dead money. Theres also the other point about VOIP calls to other VOIP users are free. That would be a big part of my calls I reckon too. I'll be setting up VOIP for other family members to get the advantage of that.

amby666

Theres also the other point about VOIP calls

There are others too.
You can use a calling gateway so that you can still use your account for long distance calls even if you're at a mates.
(Like Telestunt, but cheaper).
Or I've got a second login set up and used my home account from the states with a softphone on a laptop -
calls home were free and others were from my account.

And you can pick up voicemails from your email.

And...

.

Blaster99

I'm just suggesting that NTL + Blueface may not be cheaper, and if I got the numbers wrong, that's fine. I'm doing this comparison for my own benefit too and for a bit of a laugh, but so far I'm not convinced using NTL is actually cheaper. Let's not get all worked up about this stuff, yeah? I don't really prefer any particular option, I'm just looking at this objectively.

You can get set up with free satellite with 120 channels including UK terristerials for about €100 if you shop smart. That's €100 in total. €0 per month.

TempestSabre, I'm not sure I get your comparison. You seem to be implying that it's even better to go with BT/ADSL than I suggested. What facts specifically did I twist? I might have undervalued free Irish landland calls and I suppose that depends on your usage. I think you got the BT pricing wrong. It's €35 inc line rental the first four months, and then €50 a month inc line rental thereafter. I decided to ignore special offers and install charges to keep things simple. You can possibly argue that you may need to get a phone line installed against getting cable installed for the first time etc. But it might just be easier to do the comparison based on standard monthly fees.

What would make NTL a lot cheaper is if you compare 3Mbps services, of course. Then it's game over for anything Eircom related. But let's just for a laugh look at 2Mbps services because I remain unconvinced that NTL + Blueface is actually all that it's made up to be.

WillieFlynn

amby666 wrote:

You can use a calling gateway so that you can still use your account for long distance calls even if you're at a mates.
(Like Telestunt, but cheaper).

I do this with blueface and have just changed my mobile operator to 3 from O2 so that I can call the gateway number for less..

TempestSabre

You're not comparing like with like. Unless you do the math right, whats the point?

I'm pulling the figures off the BT site and the NTL site.
http://www.esat.net/echannel/res.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=res_products&residentialProducts_actionOverride=%2Fpageflows%2FresidentialContent%2Fproducts%2FbbBenefits
http://www.ntl.com/locales/ie/en/athome/internet.html

You originally said €25 a month. Thats not correct, that a promotion for 4 months. Now you say 35? (where you getting that from) Whats the point of quoting such a limited promotion? You might aswell say NTL is free for 3 months. Is anyone actually going to sign up for 3 or 4 months then switch on a regular basis? No. So its a misleading figure to quote. Especially when theres a installation on top. Take the cost over the 12 months as that the length of the contracts.

VOIP equipment is a ATA router. around €70 or part of the bundle (99 incl 6 months free IRL landline). NTL modem isn't charged for. I doubt you'll set up freeview for the same money. If you can please give details.

Also the call charge packages from BT and eircom. Are they offpeak only? Usually they are. If not then you should mention it. Thats an important detail just to ignore.

Blaster99

I did not say BT was €25 month, that was referring to the cost of NTL's TV package, without looking up the details. Hence the "about €25". I said BT is €50 a month, which is what it is if you read their web site correctly.

I'm sure the satellite forum can explain how to do FTV. It's not that difficult and once people in general figure it out, NTL is dead as disco. Unless they seriously revamp their packages.

jay-me

www.voipbuster.com is free and cool though it hangs up every 60 seconds but for free i can put up wit it.

TempestSabre

Blaster99 wrote:

I did not say BT was €25 month, that was referring to the cost of NTL's TV package, without looking up the details. Hence the "about €25". I said BT is €50 a month, which is what it is if you read their web site correctly.

I'm sure the satellite forum can explain how to do FTV. It's not that difficult and once people in general figure it out, NTL is dead as disco. Unless they seriously revamp their packages.

Ok I was mixing it up. But basically I have to go work out the costs that you say are cheaper because you haven't explained them here. I didn't realise all the NTL channels were on Freeview, like the Irish channels. This is what makes these pricing plans so awkward. You can't directly compare one with another.

All of this a mute point for me though since the only way I can get BB is NTL. I might aswell use it for everything esle.

Though for the original poster who didn't give much detail TeleStunt is probably easiest for him.

paulm17781

Blaster99 wrote:

I'm sure the satellite forum can explain how to do FTV. It's not that difficult and once people in general figure it out, NTL is dead as disco. Unless they seriously revamp their packages.

Yes that's right. BT is cheaper than VOIP too. Well proved. :rolleyes: