How to get a Licence when we have Ignorant Gardai?

scout

I recntly went to my local cop shop to find out about a lience for a .22lr for rabbit.
I was told i had to be 21 ,member of a gun club ,have written permision and have a gun safe. All of which i have found to be not so ,well according to the statute any way,
I can maybe see the point of safe and permission but even so can they refuse the app. and if so on what grounds.chould i persue it through the courts and at what cost???? i have heard estimetes of €100,000

any info on the avilibility of .17mach 2's and cost pre 100 comp. to .22

scout

o ya have been reading your posts for a while:D

Rew

Wouldn't bother going to court CJB amendments make all of the above requirements legal. How old are you? I would get the gun safe and 2 land permission's and try get them to submit the form like that.

scout

I am 17 thanks for info when will cjb come into effect????i hear it is only in second reading???;)

pm.

hi, emai des crofton at des@nargc.ie he is the director of the nargc and will give you the answer your looking for. but you should really look at joining a gun club if only for the insurance.

Nema

pm. wrote:

hi, emai des crofton at des@nargc.ie he is the director of the nargc and will give you the answer your looking for. but you should really look at joining a gun club if only for the insurance.

Dont wasted youre time emailing him he wont help you and dont contact FLAG.


If youre a framers son you need to be 16, Apart from that its 18. You need land yes and you need a safe, But the GunClub is just a plus!

Just go in and be nice give him all the paper work from the land owners and from the Dealer you got youre safe off, with youre Guns serl number, And wait to see what they say, Its down to them! unfar yes but its how it is,

It has taking me over 4 year to get 4 Guns!

Anways i wish you the best take care,

scout

Nema wrote:

.


If youre a framers son you need to be 16, Apart from that its 18. You need land yes and you need a safe, But the GunClub is just a plus!

,

Where does it say that in the statute book though i can not find any ref to your fathers occupation in the firearms act

Riggser

What you're going to find out very fast is that the Gardai, when it comes to firearms licenses, are very particular. From experience no two applications are the same. Many factors exist in applying for a license such as the Firearms Officer, the Superintendent, some Garda leaving your application under other applications where it will stay for a few weeks till he or she finds it again all regardless of what it says in the statute books.

Best advice will be from someone who has one, who is from your area and has dealt with the local FO, if you don't know someone like this find them.

scout

scout wrote:

any info on the avilibility of .17mach 2's and cost pre 100 comp. to .22

any views sugestions etc on the .17's

Umiq88

Hi im also 17 and have a .22wmr (more powerful .22) but i got my father to licence it

I havent heard anything about .17 mach i have a feeling its a shorter .17hmr id go for the .17hmr its a very accurate round and due to most of the guardi not having a clue they'll think because .17 is lower than .22 its not as dangerous choice is up to you

scout

psittacosis wrote:

Hi im also 17 and have a .22wmr (more powerful .22) but i got my father to licence it

I havent heard anything about .17 mach i have a feeling its a shorter .17hmr id go for the .17hmr its a very accurate round and due to most of the guardi not having a clue they'll think because .17 is lower than .22 its not as dangerous choice is up to you

Is it his gun or yours if yours how did he linence it??
.17 mach 2 is a crimped down .22lr shell with a smaller bullet, .17hmr is a mag round and more costly per shot would be nice to have one but complete over-kill as i can get within 20 or so yards of de rabbit.:rolleyes:

civdef

If youre a framers son you need to be 16, Apart from that its 18. You need land yes and you need a safe, But the GunClub is just a plus!

Further proof you shouldn't believe everything you read on the web!

Sparks

civdef wrote:

Further proof you shouldn't believe everything you read on the web!

Indeed! The rule is that you must be over 16 to apply for the licence. There are no other age-based restrictions (though there are a few other kinds of restrictions allright ). Joining your local gun club is a good idea, and getting insured is a good idea in the way that not hitting yourself in the head repeatedly with a rock is a good idea! And you will find that each application is an individual process. Oddly, that's how the system was originally designed - the garda on the ground being presumed to know more than a civil servant in an office on the far end of the country. However, it's gone too far to the other extreme and we now see cases where gardai have deviated from legislation in their individualisation of the process. But, that said, more than 90% of applications don't have any problems - it's the few % who do that we hear of. So I wouldn't let your mind get into the habit of seeing a garda and thinking "jaysus, what a gombeen" just because you've been unfortunate enough to encounter one who actually was a bit of an eejit. There actually are good firearms officers out there.

As to going through the courts, costs vary, but you're looking at an average year's salary at least for a judicial review if costs are awarded against you. The six-figure sums are for longer-running cases in general, though we've seen a few of those in firearms law as well. Basicly, it's not even in the same country as a reasonable solution, let alone the neighbourhood of one. Remember Holmes' quote (Oliver, not Sherlock): "This is a court of law, young man, not a court of justice"!

And also; don't just limit yourself to hunting. Try a little target shooting, see how you like it. If nothing else, it'll make you a better hunter if you can put the round on target, and to learn to do that, it's more humane to use paper than bunny!

Umiq88

the gun is mine i paid for it but to avoid hassle i just got my father to licence as i go out shooting with him most of the time but if you can get it licenced yourself its far better idea if anything went wrong there would be a bit of trouble thats all

if your getting within 20 yards of the rabbit why not buy a sling shot. A shot gun might be a better choice here they're much easier to licence and for shooting at that range its much faster and quicker but a .22 will give a cleaner shot if your eating them and its alot of fun its also cheaper for a better quaility gun

Sparks

psittacosis wrote:

the gun is mine i paid for it but to avoid hassle i just got my father to licence as i go out shooting with him most of the time but if you can get it licenced yourself its far better idea if anything went wrong there would be a bit of trouble thats all

Well, that's true.
Assuming, of course, that by "a bit of trouble" you mean that you'd be committing an illegal act under the Firearms acts, which would invalidate your insurance and for which the Gardai could arrest you and for which you could be imprisoned or fined. Funny thing about these "erra, it's grand" arrangements - the moment anything stops being grand, everything stops being grand and noone is going to stand up and say "Oh yes, your honour, I knew the accused was using that rifle and I said it was grand for him to do so"...

BTW, it's perfectly legal to have multiple people licenced for the one firearm, so if you want to have a licence for your fathers gun, that's fine and won't affect ownership in any way.

scout

psittacosis wrote:

if your getting within 20 yards of the rabbit why not buy a sling shot. A shot gun might be a better choice here they're much easier to licence and for shooting at that range its much faster and quicker but a .22 will give a cleaner shot if your eating them and its alot of fun its also cheaper for a better quaility gun

Tryed a fairly good slind shot once got within 10 yards and fired a lead pellet hit it but it just seemed to laugh at me
Never seen a rabbit shot with a shotgun but have been told it is messey and you get the shot stuck in the meat .compaired to a head shot the shot gun option does not sound very nice

I'm open to contradicion on above as i have not witness it first hand

scout

Sparks wrote:

Well, that's true.
Assuming, of course, that by "a bit of trouble" you mean that you'd be committing an illegal act under the Firearms acts, .

if it is illegal to a gun have in your posession. what does that mean
if you hold a unloaded gun??
in places like fermoy they cater for corp. events is that illegal???

Sparks

scout wrote:

if it is illegal to a gun have in your posession. what does that mean
if you hold a unloaded gun??

Means that, strictly speaking, it's illegal. Unless you have a licence for it, or it's on an authorisation like in a fairground shooting stall or a club gun. Or you're one of a few exempted groups (gardai, army, gun dealers, etc, etc)

in places like fermoy they cater for corp. events is that illegal???

No, but it's done through the whole fairgrounds type of arrangement. Different setup to just picking up a firearm off the rack.

Vegeta

I think it is illegal to hold an unloaded gun and be outdside the supervision of the owner

Sparks

Vegeta wrote:

I think it is illegal to hold an unloaded gun and be outdside the supervision of the owner

No, it's just plain illegal unless you have a licence or there's an authorisation or whatever.

Spitfire666

Ya don't need a safe and ya don't need to be a member of a gun club.
my dad has a webly vulcan .22 and he needed premission from two land owners to shoot on there land.Ya only need to be in a club if you dont have the land to shoot on.

scout

if i apply for a licence in late jan should i get a licence by july/aug.??
whow long do i have to wait before i have to get a reply or can they not reply for a v.long period??
also do the people from cork know the attitude of the FO in ballincollig??
or the supt.i n gurranabraher ??:o

Vegeta

so if my brother handed me his gun getting over a fence, illegal!!

civdef

There is an exemption for the following in the 1925 Firearms Act:

( f ) the carriage for sporting purposes only of a firearm or ammunition under instructions from and for the use of the holder of a firearm certificate for such firearm or ammunition;

Intended for gun-bearers and the like at formal shoots, but would cover the fence crossing situation.

I was hoping the CJB would include a provison for a non-licence holder to shoot a firearm under the immediate supervision of the licence holder, like they have in the UK, don't suppose anyone knows a TD who might put in an amendment to that effect?

Vegeta

civdef wrote:

There is an exemption for the following in the 1925 Firearms Act:



Intended for gun-bearers and the like at formal shoots, but would cover the fence crossing situation.

I was hoping the CJB would include a provison for a non-licence holder to shoot a firearm under the immediate supervision of the licence holder, like they have in the UK, don't suppose anyone knows a TD who might put in an amendment to that effect?

So it is legal to hold the gun for the holder of the licence!

Sparks

Vegeta wrote:

So it is legal to hold the gun for the holder of the licence!

Well, be careful how you use the verb 'hold' there since it can either mean what we mean by it ("Here, hold this for a second while I get over the fence") or it can mean to store (as in, the gun dealer holding the gun for you). The former is covered, the latter isn't. And since it's for carriage, you have to be moving the gun from point A to point B, you couldn't hang on to it in your house for a day or two under that exemption.
Happily, most of this is a moot point in 99.99% of cases. Gardai do have a degree of common sense, tales of woe to the contrary
It's just when you meet a Garda who doesn't know you and is somewhat uncomfortable around firearms and seeks refuge in the legislation for guidance that things can get a lot less flexible in a hurry.

Just a point on the Gardaí - they were exceptionally helpfull when I was getting a license and europass, even though it was the first time that I had met the man

demonloop

A little off topic but I was just wondering what you had against rabbits?

You seem to be going to a lot of trouble to shoot a few bunnies!!

PS Sparks is the UCESSA Winter League results on the web anywhere yet for this year?

jaycee

Just a point on the Gardaí - they were exceptionally helpfull when I was getting a license and europass

Ditto !

Very helpful ..! as usual.!

scout

demonloop wrote:

A little off topic but I was just wondering what you had against rabbits?

You seem to be going to a lot of trouble to shoot a few bunnies!!

costing local farmers €100's
tasty

Sparks

demonloop wrote:

PS Sparks is the UCESSA Winter League results on the web anywhere yet for this year?

Haven't seen them yet this year DL