Problems with self build

Jackz

I put the following pc together using these parts, the memory, cpu and motherboard were part of a bundle i bought from komplett:

CPU: AMD 64 3000+ 2.0 512KB cache

Board: MSI K8N NEO Platinum Edition S754nForce3 250GB

Memory: TwinMOS PC3200 512MB

Disk: Maxtor DiamondMax 10 200GB SATA 8MB Cache 7200RPM

Media Devices: LiteOn - Dual Layer Dvd Recorder

Graphics Card: Leadtek nvidia 6600Gt

I managed to previously install xp on this machine and didnt use it much as i was away for a while but lately when i started to use the pc on a regular basis it crashed regulary giving a blue screen with yellow writing that i couldn't read as it instantly shutdown.

I tried yesterday to install windows 2000 on the machine, using the floppy supplied with the motherboard to load drivers for sata. The install went through harddisk format etc and then reached the gui section where it said it was analysing the hardware. Half way across the progress bar frooze and progressed no further.

Anybody any experience with a configuration similar to this?

Or perhaps advice on hardware testing utilities that will run from floppy?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

John

conzy

Blues Screens are usually a problem with ram, If it says something like

IRQ not less or equal

Put memtest 86 on a floppy an boot from it, here is the link:

http://www.memtest.org/download/1.55.1/memtest86+-1.55.1.floppy.zip

It will usually fail on test 8. Let it run a few a few times, to be sure

P.S Is the PC overclocked

Jackz

Hey conzy,

I will give memtest a go so.

It is not over-clocked no. There is some kind of intelligent over clocking mentioned in bios i think but i dissabled it when i had problems.

I will go to the machine and try memtest and have a look at bios just to verify what iv said.

Thank you for your help.

John

conzy

Ok if it fails memtest it doesnt necessarily mean that the ram is bad, just that something is wrong with the settings.

Clear the Bios, by taking out the battery for a few minutes, Then load the fail-safe defaults, if it doesnt work after that and it still fails memtest, return the ram to komplett

Jackz

hey conzy when i try to boot floppy it says NTLDR is missing.

conzy

Never encountered that before. Did you insert a floppy and then open that file i linked you to, it will extract itself and write itself to a floppy dont just drag it to a floppy, (I did that the first time:D )

Jackz

oh lordy

over 4000 errors from test 5 even after reseting bios.

youcancallmeal

try upping the voltage on your ram by 0.1v and then run memtest.
Also if you've got 2x256mb ram try running memtest seperately on each.
If not looks like you'll probably have to rma the ram.

EOA_Mushy

"NTLDR missing"

1)Computer is booting from a non-bootable source.
2)Computer hard disk drive is not properly setup in BIOS.
3)Corrupt NTLDR and/or NTDETECT.COM file.
4)Misconfiguration with the boot.ini file.
5)Attempting to upgrade from a Windows 95, 98, or ME computer that is using FAT32.
6)New hard disk drive being added.
7)Corrupt boot sector / master boot record.
8)Seriously corrupted version of Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
9)Loose or Faulty IDE/EIDE hard disk drive cable.

The same and more info:
http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm

Probably caused by removeing the battery.... if you acted on conzymaher's suggestion.

telemachus

The ntldr thing is probably only because of the botched xp install he mentioned earlier that failed midway through, it should only show up when the pc tries to boot the os, ie after the bios/memtest stage.

As someones mentioned I guess you're best bet is to fiddle with the memory before rma'ing, try both sticks alone and memtest them, and also try different ram slots on the board. You could try them in another machine if you have access to one/have an accomodating friend to make sure it's the ram. Have a look in the bios settings for memory settings as well, if you can find it try setting the ram timings to "by spd" if it's on auto, or loosen them slightly (ie cas latency to 3 is on 2.5 etc)

conzy

Ok, set the voltage to 2.6v and the cas latency to 2.5 (stock settings for that ram) and leave the rest of the settings on auto, if that doesnt work try the sticks individually, its unlikely that both are broken, If all that fails return to komplett and buy some good ram like crucial ballistix (2-2-2-6) it will make your pc twice as fast and will be a lot more stable than twinmos stuff

DemonOfTheFall

conzymaher wrote:

Ok, set the voltage to 2.6v and the cas latency to 2.5 (stock settings for that ram) and leave the rest of the settings on auto, if that doesnt work try the sticks individually, its unlikely that both are broken, If all that fails return to komplett and buy some good ram like crucial ballistix (2-2-2-6) it will make your pc twice as fast and will be a lot more stable than twinmos stuff

That's not true at all. The benefits of going from Cas 3 to Cas 2 ram are more like 10% absolute tops. Don't be telling people something that is nowhere near the truth. I've used twinMOS ram in every PC i've built lately and it is rock solid stuff, no mem test errors, no memory problems full stop. TwinMOS are a respected company, just because they sell cheap ram doesnt mean it's crap. Corsair sell their cheapo memory for like €1 more.

Cuddlesworth

Yeah you only notice a differance when you are doing 250mhz @2 or 300mhz@2.5. And thats some exspensive ram thats needed

conzy

That's not true at all. The benefits of going from Cas 3 to Cas 2 ram are more like 10% absolute tops. Don't be telling people something that is nowhere near the truth. I've used twinMOS ram in every PC i've built lately and it is rock solid stuff, no mem test errors, no memory problems full stop. TwinMOS are a respected company, just because they sell cheap ram doesnt mean it's crap. Corsair sell their cheapo memory for like €1 more.

Cas latency makes a big difference, especially in non 939 systems without the on-die dual channel memory controller, I had cheap ddr400 ram with 2.5-4-4-11 timings i got around 2400mb/s memory bandwith, I bought Crucial Ballistix 2-2-2-6 and my memory bandwith rose to 3600mb/s and thats at stock. and even if thats not double the performance, it improves the whole pc's performance by a lot

DemonOfTheFall

Yes, you may have added 50% to memory bandwidth, but big whoop. Show me an *actual* benchmark that shows more than a 10% performance increase in return for spending 50-60% more on RAM.

Unless you sit at your PC all day running SiSoft Sandra's memory benchmark, I highly doubt that you're gonna see a decent gain out of it. I know all about just how much you gain in memory bandwidth, but I've also read extensive tests where they show just how little you gain in *real* performance. Sure it might also increase your SuperPi times by a lot, but I don't tend to repeatedly calculate the first 1million digits of Pi with my computer all day.

Show me your 50% to 100% increase in ripping a DVD, playing a game or processing 300 pages of a word doc with Adobe Acrobat and then your argument might have some credibility. At the moment it seems like you're suckered by useless epenis benchmark numbers and marketing mumbo jumbo.

conzy

Show me an *actual* benchmark that shows more than a 10% performance increase in return for spending 50-60% more on RAM.

but I've also read extensive tests where they show just how little you gain in *real* performance

Thats the biggest contradiction of the century benchmarks have nothin to do with real world performance, I could put 2* 7800gtxs in a PC and get 20,000 in 3dmark05 and maybe an extra 5fps in fear

3dmarks mean nothing but memory bandwith is the speed at which you can access RAM

And Encoding a DVD used to take around 35 minutes, now it takes around 7 minutes thats a massive REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE increase

DemonOfTheFall

Come on guys, someone back me up here, this guy needs to be taught something.

Sisoft sandra memory bandwidth is an entirely synthetic benchmark. It has absolutely no basis on the behaviour of any real world program, at all. Answer me this, how many real world programs are designed to thrash data in and out of the memory as fast as possible and record the rate at which they are able to do it ?

3dmark (as little value as I would place on it) actually does have a basis in the actual use of a PC. It measures the actual performance of the processor, memory, video card and sound card in a way which is similar to how games or 3d rendering programs might.

Please don't embarass yourself by continuing on with this. I doubt theres a single other person on boards who will agree with you.

EDIT : http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=cpu&id=333&pagenumber=2 . Have a look at that. It just proves how tiny a benefit there is. You simply can't argue with hard numbers.
EDIT 2: http://techreport.com/etc/2005q4/mem-latency/index.x?pg=1 . And another one.
EDIT 3: By the way, was the DVD thing a joke or what ?

conzy

first of all both the links you provided refer to s939 athlon 64 systems, where as my Pc is a Athlon Xp 3000, On the socket A platform memory latency makes a huge differnce where as on a s939 system (i will agree with you) it does not.

Secondly i am merely trying to help Jack Z and you invaded the thread and have gave no helpful input whatsoever "you are wrong....", "Thats not true at all".......................

And no the DVD thing is not a joke it used to take me half an hour to encode a dvd then another half an hour to compress is with DVD Shrink now it takes around 7-10 mins to encode and 7-10 to compress.

Just because you have more posts than me doesnt mean you know more than me and you can ask other members to "teach me a lesson"

I merely recommended Jack Z to get Crucial Ballistix and you have been on the offensive ever since, I have nothing against you and enjoy a heated discussion, but please dont mock me, and stop embarresing yourself over RAM TIMINGS

DemonOfTheFall

I'm just sick of seeing people on forums tell other people to spend €200 on a Gig of RAM. Sorry if I was a bit aggressive, but telling him that he will double his performance just isn't true. I'll leave it there anyway because he can see the gains for himself from plenty of sites around the net.

OT: With the DVD shrink thing are you sure it isn't just varying with the length of the movie and the amount you're compressing it by ? I just compressed the entire first disc of little britain season 1, menus and all and it took me 1hr 15 mins on an A64 overclocked to 2.25ghz. If your rig is tearing thru them in 14-20 mins there must be something else affecting it ?

conzy

Im also sorry if i seemed a bit harsh.................

And Crucial Ballistix is only €120 thats why i like it

I Rip with DVD Decrypter and then shrink with DVD Shrink, I click backup and select "perform deep analysis" in options it cuts the film down to around 4.6gb enough to fit on a single layer dvd in around 20 minutes including encoding and compressing or whatever it is that it does alltogether it takes about an hour to RIP, then encode, then compress, then burn with DVD decrypter

P.s Little Britain Has loads of episodes and is probably around 4-5 hours where as a film is 1 and a half or so. Maybe that is what is taking so long

Cuddlesworth

Lol your saying that you went from 35 minutes to 7 from lowering the cas from 2.5 to 2. And this does not involve raising the fsb at all? Which on a task like encoding a dvd would be of far greater value! I think you need to read up on the differences between Cas and Fsb. There is a reason why most cas2 ram is aimed at gamers and the real stuff that nails high Fsb at fairly low latency is aimed at benches

DemonOfTheFall

Oh, that does make ballistix sound like an alright deal if TwinMOS is gonna cost €98 or whatever. I suppose I would pay the extra 20 odd quid for the chance of it being able to pull 250mhz FSB with loosed timings. Was that shop4memory for a price that good ?

conzy

Well its actually 148, i just get it for €120 cause i buy through my Dads Company and get vat off , I got itr from komplett, cause i couldnt find it on shop4memory i think they are out of it.

Oh and Krazy 8s, I know what the difference between FSB and CAS is and Jack Z is building a Athlon 64 system so its actually called Htt and not Fsb if you have nothing useful to contribute please leave.

And i can set up my video camera, and make a film of me backing up a dvd for all the non believers

Cuddlesworth

conzymaher wrote:

Oh and Krazy 8s, I know what the difference between FSB and CAS is and Jack Z is building a Athlon 64 system so its actually called Htt and not Fsb if you have nothing useful to contribute please leave.

Htt is for intels and Ht is for Athlon systems and is not the same as Fsb but is related to it as most things in a computer are. I believe that I am adding something to this conversation because I have not said anything wrong.
I think its time to you learned to say "sorry I was wrong". Instead of insulting me by posting that remark.

masteroftherealm

FSB is still in common usage in all computing circles instead of ht BTW.

conzy

No, actually FSB is the speed at which the Cpu communicates with the northbridge/ram in non-AMD systems. The Memory controller is now on-board, and therfore there is NO FSB, It is a HTT (hyper transport Technology) link that communicates dirrectly with RAM cutting out the middle man that is the northbridge. It performs the same way but it is not a FSB.

And Intel's HT (is hyperthreading, which is totally different, and AMD own the patent to it they just dont use it)

So Krazy 8s i beleive it is you that is totally wrong this time and i beleive you should appologise, again I have nothing against you, just becauses i am new, everyone of the more "expierienced" posters are ganging up on me

masteroftherealm

In any and all computing circles htt is still called the fsb for ease of use

conzy

I know i was just proving that i know the difference between "FSB and Cas", maybe Krazy 8s should say:

sorry I was wrong

Anyway I think we should forget about this little disagreement, and get back to the topic,

In my opinion, Jack Z should get Crucial ballistix it is very good and will allow him to overclock to a 250mhz fsb

Anyway Merry Christmas all

Cuddlesworth

Your right I was wrong about HTT, Hypertransport is known as Hypertransport because HT was taken by Hyper threading.

Can I ask you a question? How big a difference do you think Ht makes. If I was running around telling everybody my stats do you think I would tell them "Oh I dont do 315Mhz FSB with 3.4.4.8 timings. Hell no I do a mean 630mhz Hypertransport". Grow up. Hypertransport at lower speeds makes no difference to my system in the same way cas does not on lower priced ram. And assuming everybody can claim the tax back is unfair.

masteroftherealm

krazy_8s wrote:

Your right I was wrong about HTT, Hypertransport is known as Hypertransport because HT was taken by Hyper threading.

Can I ask you a question? How big a difference do you think Ht makes. If I was running around telling everybody my stats do you think I would tell them "Oh I dont do 315Mhz FSB with 3.4.4.8 timings. Hell no I do a mean 630mhz Hypertransport". Grow up. Hypertransport at lower speeds makes no difference to my system in the same way cas does not on lower priced ram. And assuming everybody can claim the tax back is unfair.

You run 315@3-4-4-8? What Ram..

conzy

What the hell are you talking about krazy 8s, FSB and HTT are both double-pumped and therefore should actually be quoted as 400mhz instead of 200mhz, I thought that we already settled this. You were wrong, and you are still reffering to HT (Hyper Threading) and not HTT, Hyper Threading is nothing to do with FSB, It allows the CPU to run two Threads at once,

And please stop throwing cheap shots at me, Just because you cant get back VAT, remember this:

Originally posted by Krazy 8s

Get them sent to a person in the states and have them send it to you under the guise of a returned rma eg, fixed parts. You cant get charged taxs twice

I dont have a friend in the US, assuming everyone has a friend willing to scam customs in the US is unfair

Now please stop going off topic

Cuddlesworth

First of all I say what speed my ram is running at to showcase my ram. Which is ocz dfi special pc5400 (i think) bought here on boards. I also have had ocz gold vx pc4000 and have a gig of ocz limited edition with the hynix chips in them. /my last attempt with got me about 185mhz at 2.5,4,3,7. The thing about this ram is that I can run at stock 200mhz(yes i said 200mhz, find anybody else in here who would say 400mhz i dare ya)at either cas 2 timings or 2.5 and there is no noticable difference. Hyper transport takes a multiplyer of 5 to the ram. So ram running in dual channal at 400mhz*5=2000. Mine runs at 315 so in dual channel its at 630*5=3150. Which is unworkable on my mobo. So I run a multi of 2 on my hypertransport. and i see no difference. And hypertransport is not HTT.

conzy

That is a very nice system, is it an opty or athlon 64?, I put some OCZ platinium Rev 2 in my dads PC with an opty 148 and it flies, I might start ocing over Christmas.

Seriously, Krazy 8s, you seem like a nice person in your other posts why are you going out of your way to prove me wrong:

"HT" is Hyper threading, used on newer intel P4 processers
"HTT" is Hyper Transport Technology which is the new system bus in K8 generation AMD processers

Anyway please can we leave the acronyms out of this, and I would like to Talk to you more abou this awesome memory clock you have;)

P.s I do actually use the term FSB and Quote clock speed as 200mhz+, I was just proving that i know the difference between CAS and FSb

Cuddlesworth

Lol all-right, its an opty 144 and it was doing 2.6 but I had to get rid of that to find out why it was rebooting. Turns out I had a bad raptor.

conzy

2.6 is very good if you are on stock cooling, get a nice big zalman CNPS7700-Cu or a thermalright SI-120 and you will get 2.8 or 3.0 if you are lucky. IS it an early one, what stepping

masteroftherealm

krazy_8s wrote:

First of all I say what speed my ram is running at to showcase my ram. Which is ocz dfi special pc5400 (i think) bought here on boards. I also have had ocz gold vx pc4000 and have a gig of ocz limited edition with the hynix chips in them. /my last attempt with got me about 185mhz at 2.5,4,3,7. The thing about this ram is that I can run at stock 200mhz(yes i said 200mhz, find anybody else in here who would say 400mhz i dare ya)at either cas 2 timings or 2.5 and there is no noticable difference. Hyper transport takes a multiplyer of 5 to the ram. So ram running in dual channal at 400mhz*5=2000. Mine runs at 315 so in dual channel its at 630*5=3150. Which is unworkable on my mobo. So I run a multi of 2 on my hypertransport. and i see no difference. And hypertransport is not HTT.

Is that wizzards old ram?

RangeR

Great thread.
I wanna nominate for the Thunderdome

masteroftherealm

^^^What?^^^

Cuddlesworth

Yep it is wizzards old ram. I gave it a good home

masteroftherealm

krazy_8s wrote:

Yep it is wizzards old ram. I gave it a good home

MAN that stuf was beautiful!!!!