Second Hand car prices

kluivert

Is it me or has the price of second hand cars got more expensive in the last two years.

I bought my 99 Astra in Jun 04 for 6900e with 54k miles on the clock.

I have looking at the auto trader to see how much i could sell it for, it now has 80k miles as i have been up and now to dublin on the motorway for the last three months, and i saw prices of 7000e - 5500e, holy mollies, talk about holding its value.

It was a private buy but the lad i bought it from wouldnt move on the price.

My friend brought a 00 astra with 74k at the same time mind had 74K on the clock and he bought it for 7500e a year after i bought mine and with 20k less miles on the clock.

So what is the story with car prices these days and why do people think that they are worth more than they really are.

Bargains to be got in England and Japan, can see people starting to import their cars from now on.

TempestSabre

Been looking myself. I kinda agree with you. Personally I don't see the point of buying car for 7-10k with 80-100k on the clock. For only a few grand more 11-14k you get a car with 20-30k on it. Theres a lot of abused 2nd hand cars around being sold for big money. Madness. Lots of people seem to be just buying new or nearly new on HP and I think its driving the cost of cars up.

TempestSabre

Where are you getting those prices from?

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&CategoryID=1&MakeID=21&xMakeID=21&ColourID=&xColourID=&ModelID=193&xModelID=193&Doors=&BodyID=&Engine_Min=&Year_Min=2000&Engine_Max=&Year_Max=2000&Price_Min=1&Price_Min_integer=Minimum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&CountyID=&xCountyID=&Price_Max=&Price_Max_integer=Maximum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&BusinessID=&xBusinessID=&IsPrivateSale=&FuelID=&SortBy=priceAsc&MaxRows=100&InsertPeriod=&ResultFormat=&submit=Find+%3E%3E

Range is 5k - 9.5k and the cheaper ones have mega miles. Probably as rough as (insert something very rough). Even if they drop 1K in haggling, still not close to 5k average for average mileage 5yrs=50k IMO. Its closer to a 6.5-8.5k for a car with around 50k on the clock.

I've been looking at cars like this and some of them are shagged. Its as if they had 50x2yrs old living in there for a month, and allowed them to rip the interior apart. Then had the dog, cat and sheep in there at night.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I took a 99 car with 60k on the clock, for a spin. Aparently it had just been serviced (this was an AA check garage) and it sounded like it was running on 3 cylinders. They may have changed the oil, but it hadn't been tuned so there was no way of knowing what the engine was like. (Engine bay steam cleaned - sigh). Best haggling got it down to 5500. But tbh he wasn't interested in selling, he knew he could sell it to some mug for 1k more. Car had no NCT or tax.

TempestSabre

I was just using that as guide for discussion. Theres private cars on Carzone but yeah Buy and sell is probably a better source of cheaper cars, but I don't have the time to chase around after cars advertised as mint to find its a complete shed. At least online you can see the photo and see if its ok or looks in any way abused. Wear on the interior and the shut lines on bumpers and the like are hints to its condition. Not perfect, but coupled with a call to the owner its better than guess work.

kluivert

I got the prices from the autotrader.

If a four cylinder car is running on three cylinders it sounds like a tractor, its really bad.

Am looking into getting a new second hand car in the new year and the more i look into it the more england has to offer.

layke

TempestSabre wrote:

Been looking myself. I kinda agree with you. Personally I don't see the point of buying car for 7-10k with 80-100k on the clock. For only a few grand more 11-14k you get a car with 20-30k on it. Theres a lot of abused 2nd hand cars around being sold for big money. Madness. Lots of people seem to be just buying new or nearly new on HP and I think its driving the cost of cars up.

I know of at least 3 dealerships (or a fact) that clock cars.
Never believe that 80k is in fact an the right number from a dealer.
ideally, buying a 2nd hand car from a friend is your best bet, at least you know the history.

alias no.9

layke wrote:

I know of at least 3 dealerships (or a fact) that clock cars.
Never believe that 80k is in fact an the right number from a dealer.
ideally, buying a 2nd hand car from a friend is your best bet, at least you know the history.

You should also be suspicious of low mileages (for the age) for a number of reasons, not least being that it may not be real but even if it is real low mileage can mean a lot of short journeys, a lot of cold starting which means extra wear on the engine, lots of stop/start driving taking it's toll on the clutch, gearbox and brakes, and all of the heating up and cooling down reduces the life of the exhaust.
(note when I say a lot, I mean in proportion to the mileage)

The best second hand car to buy is one that's spent it's life cruising on the motorway (obviously not the M50 then).

TempestSabre

alias no.9 wrote:

...
The best second hand car to buy is one that's spent it's life cruising on the motorway (obviously not the M50 then).

Ah so a 100k motor would be better than a 20k one ok.

layke wrote:

I know of at least 3 dealerships (or a fact) that clock cars.
Never believe that 80k is in fact an the right number from a dealer.
ideally, buying a 2nd hand car from a friend is your best bet, at least you know the history.

How do you know for a fact these dealers?

bazz26

TempestSabre wrote:

Ah so a 100k motor would be better than a 20k one ok.

It could. Alot of people are blinded by low mileage cars and are willing to pay that bit extra because they think it was hardly driven.

A car with 20k miles or so could have been driven all the time by a little old lady in 2nd gear, never been serviced or driven on bog roads. This compared to the 100k miles car that could have spent most of its life up and down motorways and serviced every couple of months.

The best thing to do is judge each car on its own merits, check the condition of the body work, the interior, pedals, the way it starts, goes and stops plus service history, etc, these are indications of the way the car has been used, these are more important than what is on the odometer imo.

TempestSabre

The condition of the car should reflect the mileage and its history. End of story.

If a car has been abused it will reflect that. Equally if its hardly been driven it will show. Personally I'd prefer a little old ladies car at 20k than company car at 100k. They'll be more big bills with a high miler as parts have limited life.

alias no.9

TempestSabre wrote:

Ah so a 100k motor would be better than a 20k one ok.

A 6 year old 100k car, properly maintained with a supporting history, in good condition, would be certainly be a better buy than a similar aged car in rough condition with no history showing 60k.

You've got to look beyond mileage, that's my point. Is there realy any difference between a car with 60k miles and a similar model from the same year with 90k once it's been maintained and not thrashed?

When buying a used car, you're buying whats there in front of you, not the reputation of the manufacturer. Forget about everything you've heard and check the car out properly or get somenone else to check it. I have a friend who bought a honda because of their reputation for reliability but he never even asked if the timing belt had been done. Guess what happened a few weeks later?

TempestSabre

alias no.9 wrote:

....
You've got to look beyond mileage, that's my point. Is there realy any difference between a car with 60k miles and a similar model from the same year with 90k once it's been maintained and not thrashed?...

Checking condition is obvious.

Two cars identically maintained. One at 60k the other at 90k. You seriously think theres no difference? Things wear out? Metal does wear. That is the difference. Same with the interior. It wears aswell. I'm not saying you can't get a good high miler with lots of years left in it. My point is that the high milers I've been looking at are not worth the prices being asked.

alias no.9

TempestSabre wrote:

Checking condition is obvious.

Two cars identically maintained. One at 60k the other at 90k. You seriously think theres no difference? Things wear out? Metal does wear. That is the difference. Same with the interior. It wears aswell. I'm not saying you can't get a good high miler with lots of years left in it. My point is that the high milers I've been looking at are not worth the prices being asked.

Absolutely, things wear, but you could well find that the clutch, timing belt, suspension bushings, shocks, brakes, etc.. have all been replaced between 60k and 90k on the high mile car but have never been done on the 60k car. Which is looking like the better buy now? Even if you're just talking about the timing belt at 70k and the clutch at around 80k, that's a huge servicing cost saved on a lot of cars. Thats why you look for history.

TempestSabre

I still say they are very expensive at the moment. If you don't agree, can you buy me one?

alias no.9

TempestSabre wrote:

I still say they are very expensive at the moment. If you don't agree, can you buy me one?

I just bought myself one if that counts for anything, well not quite 90k but 75k. It's an alfa 156, 00D, and it's just had the cam belt, variator and plugs done (the plugs on the twin sparks are expensive but last 60k miles). It cost €4,500. I would have had to spend over €7,000 for a 50k or 60k example from the same year which could well have needed all of the above done in the next year at a cost of somewhere between €800 and €1200 depending on where it was done. It's about looking at the big picture.

alias no.9

colm_mcm wrote:

what's it? 1.8? sounds like a bargain. alfa's were always bargains if you're not scared by possible breakdowns.

Yeah, it's a 1.8. All major servicing is done. All the engine is going to need between now and 120k miles is regular oil checks and changes with good synthetic oil and the filters of course. Given the state of irish roads, I will have to watch for wear on the suspension bushings but that's a small price to pay for a car that drives as good as the 156. Only one owner before me so it's unlikely to have been the kind of car that spent most of it's life in the garage or they'd have got rid years ago.

colm_mcm

alias no.9 wrote:

All the engine is going to need between now and 120k miles is regular oil checks and changes with good synthetic oil and the filters of course..

the thing about alfa's is the most stupid things will go wrong. best of luck with it though,

aphex™

kluivert wrote:

It was a private buy but the lad i bought it from wouldnt move on the price.

That was probably because he had only just started advertising it that week. I used to work for a car magazine and we did a few ads. Call back a few weeks later to renew the ad and see they got hardly any calls. Ask if they would like to reduce the price and they go beserk. People just chance their arm with prices.

Best thing to do is go out and buy a car magazine or print off some ads from the websites and put them in a drawer for 3/4 weeks (if you're on a budget and don't happen to find any mad baragins in there).

You then call them up and ask is the car still for sale and magically the owner will settle for a good bit less if you don't sound too enthusiastic. If you look closely you can see the relief in their faces when you're buying it because at least they have got rid of the thing.

TempestSabre

On carzone you do a search on cars listed this month, then list the cars by any, the extra cars that appear are those listed longer than a month.

MrWenger1982

I am looking at a 1.6 Toyota Corolla 03. The car has been crashed and repaired. The dealer is a friend of the family and is looking for 12k for it. My parents bought a crashed car of him and it runs like a dream. He is a decent chap and don't think he would try to rip us off. But my question would be, is 12k too much for this car bearing in mind that it was crashed?

MrWenger1982

Has anybody any ideas at all? I would be grateful for any advice

TempestSabre

Depends entirely on the amount of damage. But its repaired correctly, going by the prices on carzone, its not a bargain, but its among the cheaper '03's.

colm_mcm

I sell Toyotas for a living. The only Corolla 1.6's were all Automatic. If the one you're looking at is manual then it's likely to be a UK import.
This year we were saelling '02 Corollas for E 11,950, usually mint with about 40k. An 03 next year should be about the same price. and you should get an 03 next year for about E 11250 without a trade in.
I think this sounds a bit too expensive for what it is. It won't be worth as much second hand due to its past and the fact that it's 1.6 as opposed to 1.4

Bartonprince

Ye, Like, my 93' astra saloon has only got 149k up on the clock (he he), and it goes very smooth, i know the previous owner and there is no real problems with the car. He used it for long motorway spins and the car is in good nic. But as it's old, and there is a lot of miles on it, some of the parts are showing their age. Like the gearbox, and radiator etc.

seatleon2000

cars have never been so cheap! what is this thread on about... and with the SSIAs hittin in the summer - second hand cars will be two a penny

TempestSabre

I put dibs on the the two your selling for a penny then.

kluivert

Some people just dont know that value of money and are willing to throw it anyway. For example someone who invests there money for a long term SSIA's and then buys a car, you got to be taking the mick, going from an investment to de vestment doesnt make sense and therefore the idea that s/h cars arew cheap at the mo is nonsense.

colm_mcm

yeah, but you've gotta impulse buy now and again!

TempestSabre

Cars don't make financial sense. Its about convenience, comfort etc.

maidhc

kluivert wrote:

Some people just dont know that value of money and are willing to throw it anyway. For example someone who invests there money for a long term SSIA's and then buys a car, you got to be taking the mick, going from an investment to de vestment doesnt make sense and therefore the idea that s/h cars arew cheap at the mo is nonsense.

Yes, but to those people a car is worth more than 20k in the bank. Same thing goes for everyone who buys a new car SSIA or not. It is perfectly sensible at the end of the day. It makes more sense surely than furnishing your house with an expensive kitchen, getting a new sofa, or buying elan and eircom shares; the car will take you to work, allow you move around the country etc...

A more interesting argument is why people trade in their 3year old 1.9/2.0 litre diesel with only 40k on the clock for 10/20k less than they paid for it.

ambro25

The value of any second-hand car lies in the demonstrability ('proof') of it's history, putting aside more obvious pointers like condition for age and mileage.

I bought a 2.0 Sport '97 Impreza slightly over a year ago, with -
* 59k(miles) on the clock,
* checkered history (missing two years out of 7, with suspiciously low mileage for that 2-year period),
* provable number of owners was 3 (but may have had one or two more)

What did sway me in the end was -
* reasonably-well documented history (dealer stamps, mileage in service book corresponding to old MOTs, that kind of thing) and
* a full RAC check (been using them religiously over the years).

Paid £3000 for it, with new tyres & 1-month old full s/s exhaust line (lifetime garantee on that).

I wouldn't have paid a penny more. However, I might have stretched a tad more if the history had been more thorough: copy of every V5, every MOT since new, bills from services in addition to the stamps, etc.

I now keep all of this (MOTs, bills, receipts, etc, etc.) since I got it, and I get it serviced in England at a Subaru main dealer every 6 months, keeping absolutely everything I can in the history folder. I reckon I've not lost much value on it, if anything at all, if I came to sell it now (72kmiles, over two-thirds on motorway), just because I can prove beyond a resonable doubt that it's been taken care of (and it has... and it shows ). And I also reckon I couldn't ever find the same value for money anywhere here (Dublin).

I'm actually doing the same with the MX-5, getting serviced in England once a year by a Mazda main dealer, and I've kept absolutely everything (old V5, every MOT since new, bills, etc, etc.) since we bought it from the first lady owner at 14k(miles) 5 years ago. I can prove beyond a resonable doubt to all comers that it's a genuine low-miler (45k) for the age ('98), that's it's been maintained regardless of cost and that -if I ever were to sell it- it does warrant the premium I'd ask for it.

I'm contrasting that with an IS200 I went to look at at a small dealer in Dublin back in February. Supposedly a '00, European version, with just under 50k(miles) on the clock, asking €15k or so back at the time with supposedly a single previous owner: rust everywhere in the engine bay, seats worn more like a 200k-er, chips and cracks in the front and back bumper ("Oh! Not a worry, we'll have our preprator look after those after the sale" - yeah, right...), pitted alloys and japanese stickers everywhere not-so-obvious (door sills, glovebox, etc.). No history pre-00, no mileage recorded in service book (well, two recorded mileages: 12k and 49k, three years apart), service book irregularly filled and not by Toyota or Lexus dealer, no NCT reports...
It was running smoothly enough, but I had much, much more reservations about that one, than the Impreza (which was a private sale). Needless to say, legged it a mile

Just goes to show