Male Circumcision - why?

HelterSkelter

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone can explain the reason why Muslim men have to be circumcised. As far as I know (and I could be wrong, please correct me if I am) the reason is that you must be clean when praying and the part of the penis underneath the foreskin can become dirty collecting urine, dirt, etc. Is this true?

If so, then why in this day and age is there a need to be circumcised? I can understand in the time of Mohammad things were not as clean as they are nowadays. But in this day and age it would be very easy to wash your penis each time before you pray. I have never been in a Mosque but I am told that there is a wash basin in each toilet cubicle so you could wash there. If there is no wash basin available the men could use those wet wipes to clean themselves. I just cannot understand why there is a need to remove a part of your body which God has given you.

I am not having a go at Islam, I hope I don't offend anyone but I just want to understamd the reasons behind this rule.

Thanks.

hepcat

I heard it was because in olden times it was the sand thing - apparently with sandstorms and skirts things could get very uncomfortable.Therefore more a practical thing rather than a religious, to start off with.

Goodshape

I think it's more or less the norm in the US, regardless of religion.

It has hygene benifits AFAIK.

lazydaisy

It was the norm in the US but is changing. Some stats:
At the bottom of this web page there are links to different religious perspectives on it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/mischief/circumcise_me_factsheet.shtml

There was a study done recently which says that circumcision reduces risks of contracting HIV.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4371384.stm

r3boot

reasons for it :
medical:
prevents foreskin cancer and lessens the likelihood of penile cancer.
lowers incidents of urinary tract infection and orchitis (infection of the balls).
some people tend to get "stuck" (phimosis) and need to have it removed.
Social:
You're parents.
your Girlfirend / other half
You
Religious

HelterSkelter

Lads, can we keep it on topic please? I just want to know the reasons Muslim men must be circumcised. Thanks.

larryone

This is something I've thought about before, but not at great length.
I think the most successful religions have been the ones that have the best health policies - and Islam's is better than most.
The most obvious is the idea of no sex outside of marriage, which makes sense because sex outside of marriage can cause the spread of STDs, and hence gets seen as being unclean. It makes sense.
The idea of eating with only one hand, and wiping your arse with only the other makes sense in a part of the world where water is slightly more precious.
Circumcision makes sense in a country where there's alot of sand and not vast ammounts of water.
Without handy things like rerfigeration or smoking, pig meat can be more unhealthy to eat than most others - a religious ban on it makes sense.
With islam generally, there's a whole thing of cleaning yourself before prayer - again a very healthy habit... alot of these rules make alot of sense if you think about it. Best hygene policy; successful religion!

halkar

I think Jewish males circumcised too.

Nevyn

It is part of the coventant between that god and his chosen people it predates
Isaac and Ishmael and the spliting of the people into what eventually became
those of the jewish and islamic faiths.

Genesis 17:9-14:

"And God said unto Abraham: 'And as for thee, thou shalt keep My covenant, thou, and thy seed after thee throughout their generations. This is My covenant, which ye shall keep, between Me and you and thy seed after thee: every male among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of a covenant betwixt Me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every male throughout your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any foreigner, that is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised; and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken My covenant.'"

EamonnKeane

Circumcision is an ancient ritual dating back to the Stone Age: it symbolised the boy who is becoming a man (circumcision back then happened at puberty), recognising the need for him to be strong in the face of pain - it also symbolised that he could now use his penis i.e. take a wife.

HelterSkelter

bump

Anyone got any more reasons?

UU

HelterSkelter wrote:

bump

Anyone got any more reasons?

Yes. There is a belief in Islam that sexual intercourse should only be for procreation and not for pleasure, right? Catholicism teaches that also. Well, a friend of my father's who is Muslim (but not circumcised as he's a recent convert) said that circumcision is a means of power and control between the Islamic religion and its people so that its members won't be led astray into sexual pleasure. Hence, circumcision is practised in some Islamic societies even on females! Mainly circumcision is an option by the parents. For example, a fella I know is Sunni Muslim, told me that he wasn't circumcised as his parents didn't believe in it and it wasn't really practised where he came from in Morocco.

Whatever the reason for it is, it isn't good as the foreskin protects the delicate tip of the penis which is prone to infections. I think the main reason is the tradition was passed on from the Jews like many Muslim traditions - the wearing of a headscarf by women once married, the non-consumption of pork and kosher meat ("Hallal" for Muslims) and circumcision.

I hoped this helped!

Wibbs

UU wrote:

Yes. There is a belief in Islam that sexual intercourse should only be for procreation and not for pleasure, right? Catholicism teaches that also. Well, a friend of my father's who is Muslim (but not circumcised as he's a recent convert) said that circumcision is a means of power and control between the Islamic religion and its people so that its members won't be led astray into sexual pleasure. Hence, circumcision is practised in some Islamic societies even on females! Mainly circumcision is an option by the parents. For example, a fella I know is Sunni Muslim, told me that he wasn't circumcised as his parents didn't believe in it and it wasn't really practised where he came from in Morocco.

Well Islam may be accused of many things, but sex for procreation, not pleasure would hardly be one of them. While the avenues for sex are restricted(like 99% of societies/faiths), Islam would have a far lesser guilt level of BS than Catholicism/Christianity. They even acknowledge the female orgasm, God forbid . I didn't think male circumcision was an option either, but there ya go. Female circumcision, while common in Islamic countries is not required by Islam. Not by a long shot. Many fatwas have been written against it. IIRC there's only one reference to the practice by Mohammed and it's very vague and nothing like the extreme form practised in certain societies. It seems to be a cultural thing.

Suff

UU wrote:

Yes. There is a belief in Islam that sexual intercourse should only be for procreation and not for pleasure, right?

NO, :eek:
Sex is for both procreation and pleasure. even listed in the Quraan.:D

UU wrote:

Well, a friend of my father's who is Muslim (but not circumcised as he's a recent convert) said that circumcision is a means of power and control between the Islamic religion and its people so that its members won't be led astray into sexual pleasure.

I dont know where he got that? :eek: He's wrong!

Circumcision is required ONLY for men. to become clean and clensed from urine.

the Arabic word "Taharah" = clensens - "Taher" = Clensed
"Mutahar" = got Circumcised.

larryone

I think there's a good reason why God created us with a foreskin.
I dont think submission to God needs to involve taking away something God created us with.
If I ever convert to Islam, I plan to keep mine.

UU

I don't know! Religions sorta confuse me! In Islam one group of people may practise one thing and the rest another. Anyway, I'm just quoting what I heard off my dad's friend who confuses me and is just plain weird anyway! Apparently though, female genital mutilation is a denial of human rights while male circumcision isn't. Some Muslim groups must be rather liberal on male circumcision though if my friend from Morocco didn't get "the snip".

One reason is it reduces sexual pleasure for both men and women as I've researched on the web. Here's a link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision. Also some cultures actually circumcise the male at the start of puberty around the age of 12: http://www.circlist.com/rites/moslem.html

http://www.roxanefarabi.com/Culture/Circumcision%20in%20Islam.htm

Anyhow, I'm completely against circumcision as I feel denies one's human right. It really should be the individuals choice but I don't think it would be any more hygenic. Actually, it would be less hygenic as the foreskin protects the penis from infections and dirt.

Suff

larryone wrote:

If I ever convert to Islam, I plan to keep mine.

it's common for new-muslims to keep it, its understandable as it's hard to get that done when your an adult.

UU wrote:

I don't know! Religions sorta confuse me! In Islam one group of people may practise one thing and the rest another. Anyway, I'm just quoting what I heard off my dad's friend who confuses me and is just plain weird anyway!

I know its all down to education, as the teachings are really long and people who practise must stud them in order to live the faith.

UU wrote:

Apparently though, female genital mutilation is a denial of human rights while male circumcision isn't. Some Muslim groups must be rather liberal on male circumcision.

its not genital mutilation, you make it sound horrorfying. its done to babies while they are 6 months old, so you dont really remember anything. thank GOD for that !:D

UU wrote:

Anyway, please don't start accusing me of being anti-Islamic as I'm only repeating what I heard which is obviously false.

Hey hey....relax I did'nt say anything against you!:D
thats what dialouge is for

Stark

larryone wrote:

I think there's a good reason why God created us with a foreskin.
I dont think submission to God needs to involve taking away something God created us with.
If I ever convert to Islam, I plan to keep mine.

Maybe God published an errata document after he made the final homo sapiens design. "The foreskin was a design error, please remove. Also as a workaround to the following errors you can remove the appendix and tonsils".

HelterSkelter

Suff wrote:

Circumcision is required ONLY for men. to become clean and clensed from urine.

Well do you agree then that it is unnecessary in this society as it is easy to clean underneath the foreskin before praying?

Are you a Muslim?

larryone

There is the argument that keeping it is cleaner. There's an enzyme called lysozyme in tears and saliva that breaks down bacteria, so any openings dont get infected. One of the foreskins functions is to keep it on the glans, to actually protect you from infection.

Sometimes a parallel is drawn between circumcision to keep the penis clean and removing your eyelids to keep your eyeballs clean. I think this is going a bit far, but it is nonetheless a reasonably good (if exaggerated) simile.

Edit - had spelt penis wrong.

UU

Well, I do agree with circumcision under medical purposes. For example, a fellow my mam used to know had to get his foreskin removed because it was too tight and stopped him from urinating properly.:o

I'd prefer to keep mine. Although adult converts to Judaism and Islam aren't usually required to get circumcised unless they're really strict sects. Although, I'd say Orthodox Judaism would probably require it knowing how important it is to Jews . . .:rolleyes:

There is a practise known as "Foreskin restoration" but it isn't very effective as the foreskin has glands and ducts in it as well as stem/nerve cells which currently can't be restored.