Is technique the devil?

red_ice

I've been playing guitar for near 11 years now. The second to fifth year or so of playing i was taking lessons to get my technique right, learning the scales, and general playing puzzles like, which finger to use and where to make playing songs easier, how to add 2 more notes without effort and so on. I studied jazz and blues but paid particular interest to classical mainly as my teacher insisted its the best way to go for progression.. I think thats accurate enough, for example

When i hear a song, i instantly know the chords, what note, whats being done, how to link up other instruments for basslines (with classical guitar you do both melody and basslines as you know).. Ive been very strict on my finger positioning, thumb positioning and picking technique for as long as i can remember aswell. I would like to think i have good technique.

The last year or so has completely changed my views on guitar. Just before i decided to start playing in a band(ive been offered into tonnes, but i turned them all down), i really just gave up on trying to get the right technique, and i just started to sit back and 'hammer away' at my guitars. The restrictions that came from playing structured guitar, i no longer face, and my technique has gone downhill bigtime. Never the less, i find myself to be playing more creative guitar, better riffs, and melodies that are not so much 'in key', but they find their way back into the right key... Its like im starting to take the guitar on a walk in the wrong direction, but it works out in the end.. Notes that when i was serious about my style and so on, if i hit them i would shreek, but now... they have a different feeling to the guitar, and the only thing i can put it down to is my method of playing.

this opened up because of our bass player. The chap has the worst technique ever. He hits alot of bum notes, and the notes he uses are not the notes im playing on the guitar, but they work somehow. I dont understand it, i do question it, but it just doesnt make sense to me. All i know is that it works. I've been teaching him some hand positioning and so on, and when ever he does it, his bass playing improoves 10 fold, yet he doesnt seem to have the same diversaty in his playing, its more mechanical.

My hand positioning is now like hendrix's, who i have always said is a great guitarest, but has the most horrible technique ever! (imo). Ive gone from being able to put my first finger on the first bar and my little finger on the 6th (comfortably), to the first bar to the fourth with a struggle... But i think im playing better guitar.


I feel i have got myself into a bad habbit, and i know for a fact the natural positioning for me now is bad technique.

What should i do? play with a bad technique, come up with riffs, then try em with good? Am i wrong for saying that thats not my 'style' if i play it one way, then try apply my new riffs and so on to proper technique? It never sounds the same imo.

My question is. Does technique limit you? If good technique is there to make playing guitar easier, how come it has a nack for killing my creativity?

Karl Hungus

red_ice wrote:

My question is. Does technique limit you? If good technique is there to make playing guitar easier, how come it has a nack for killing my creativity?

Personally, I think if you concentrate on technique too much, you'll be a little stifled simply because you're just not focusing on creativity. When I practice, I try to make sure that aswell as playing excersizes and getting technique right, I **** around a lot, just jam and play and do things that aren't related to excersizes and technique. Keep things fresh.

I also like to improvise when doing excersizes aswell, so while I'm there doing 4 note chromatic excersizes to the metronome, I'll not stick to a rigid pattern, but rather let my fingers walk all over the fretboard pretty much directionless, and see where it takes me. Normally all kinds of strange patterns emerge, although I'll often **** up way more than if I was doing a set pattern, I think some of the stuff that happens by itself is great.

Use of phrasing is great aswell, so while I'm doing 4 notes per beat, I'll stop and let it ring out for a beat or two, or bend the note for a beat, or pretty much anything, maybe tremolo picking for a bit, I dunno.

I think technique is great because it always lets you play new things, but no, I don't think technique is the devil, as it's all up to yourself what you do.

Savman

Hmm interesting...

Creative flair and technical ability are hand in hand, one does not restrict the other.

If you are not as creative with your technique as you'd like to be, I would suggest getting some mind opening books (or mind expanding drugs:D ).

Creative playing IS a technique

red_ice

Well, another thing to look at is the emotion in the playing aswell. As you said karl

''Use of phrasing is great aswell, so while I'm doing 4 notes per beat, I'll stop and let it ring out for a beat or two, or bend the note for a beat, or pretty much anything, maybe tremolo picking for a bit, I dunno.''

I see alot of great guitarests (i am in no way saying this applies to all guitar players) in for example a music shop doing their riffs, doing exactly what you said, and alot of it to me seems somewhat... rushed? I love that sound and style myself, being able to play something similar to it yourself you can hear every note, bend, slur and so on more so than that of people who wouldnt be able to hear it... but having said that, do you think that playing scales and going in a different pattern with good technique, hitting alot of notes and so on really fast, no matter which change you add to it - seems to be the exact same sound/style as other people who play riffs like that?

This is one of the main aspects to why i find good technique to be somewhat limiting. Now i know it sounds really stupid and contradicting, but when ever i play with good technique no matter where i am on the guitar, stuff just sounds the same.. you know what i mean?

I think that with playing with a bad technique, its almost like... hmm... Its like instead of me seeing my fingers spread out around the guitar neck, finger to each bar etc, looking down on the guitar, i am now playing with bad technique looking at the guitar at an angle... as if it was upright, and im looking down the neck, so the movements that i would make with my index finger up and down the strings (Within the same bar) are now being spread over 3 bars, up being up a string and up a bar, and down being down a string and back a bar. You know what i mean? With that, i've started to play alot more confusing riffs, which sound odd, but work... Its completely made me look at guitar playing from a new angle, its almost a new instrument for me. Nothing sounds the same, even when i play the same note with good technique.. (how picky is that eh?)

When was the last time you tried to play with a bad technique? Did you riffs sound the same?

I dont want to get on peoples bad side, by questioning their guitar playing, im just picking at your brains to help me out as i've been in a rutt and unhappy with my playing for sometime, even tho i feel its getting better, im just not happy with my style and sound. Im sure you understand!! :v:

Karl Hungus

I'm certainly a bit confused by what you're trying to say, but it's as if you're talking about playing in a very strict sense, then playing things a different way. I don't see playing strictly as technique, because technique to me means something you'd do in order to allow you to play better.

I don't know how exactly I'd play with bad technique either... What would I do? Play a load of duffer notes on purpose, fuddle up my picking, play really off-time? I don't think that's exactly what you're trying to get across to me though, but I'm a bit lost in what you mean. I don't think holding the neck at a different angle would be bad technique either, just maybe "Non traditional" or something.

Personally, technique would be trying to get your notes even and clear.

I don't know, I just don't really get what you mean, so I'm at a loss. I don't think anything is rushed, or sounds the same or anything, but then that's just me.

Savman

red_ice I'm also a bit mistified at what your saying.

Technique is your friend, it is not a style of playing, its a means (in fact the only means) of playing any style of music.

What you're talking about sounds to me like it's the "robotics" of following the strict rules of where to position fingers, how to hold neck etc and that's a different thing altogether.

Creative playing starts in the mind and the fingers are merely the machinery acting out the part, the more creative your mind, the more creative your playing.

It's quite common amongst guitarists of having all the technical ability in the world yet they fail to see the magic of one single note held or played in the right fashion over a simple Cmajor.

But then again I'm a Blues Man so that's what we're all about:D

pyure

my 2 cents...
there's nothing wrong with good technique, it certainly shouldnt limit you in any creative sence, however if you spend too long on mechanical exercises to improve technique then that mechanical sound will leak into your playing. its important to spend time on other things than simply technique.

Ancient1

red_ice wrote:

this opened up because of our bass player. The chap has the worst technique ever.

Get rid of him. It's as simple as that. Technique is never an obstacle to creativity, it's a question of applying it properly in the right context.

LundiMardi

personally, i don't 'get' technique, it's a mystery to me.. Apparently i have a good technique, but it's never something i worked on, and to this day i don't work on it.

I think it's something that should come more naturally..

So this whole thread doesn't really concern me i guess:)

i'll be off

red_ice

Sorry karl, i got a bit deep with that last post lol (was dancin with mary jayne while i was posting). I may have left some key points out, that didnt get my point across, sorry about that.

right, i found some pics to get my point across on a site just now.

This is what i would count as good technique, hand and finger positioning - its the way i was taught. And this is a rear pic with good thumb positioning.

This is what i was told is bad hand technique, and here is the rear view of it.

What i was trying to say, was that i was used to the 'good technique' method as opposed to the 'bad'. I learned scales and so on, learned where my fingers should be to get what sound out of the guitar when i wanted, and to do it with my eyes closed and so on so it became second nature. All my riffs would be structured, but very straight forward in piecing the patterns together, and how i would get to the next note in the song and so on. When i play with the 'bad' technique, i found my riffs went a totally different way because i kind of limited myself to what i could play. So the riff became more compiled of longer notes, and so on. Bumnotes happen more often in a riff, but now im finding ways out of hitting them, as in, when i hit them, i use them as if it was ment in the riff. Ye know what i mean?

It just opened a whole new can of worms for me, its added diversaty to my playing that i never had before. Was just wondering if you lads have ever been stuck in a rutt with guitar, then found something new, that opens more variety to your playing?

What i ment by 'is technique the devil' was - is it because i took the structured 'technical' route to the guitar(by no means am i a great gutiar player/technical... yet), have i missed out on a part of learning that was... pritty much not having a clue for whats right and wrong, so i just try anything. like our bass player, he doesnt really know all the notes off by heart, but anything i show him he can play, or adds his own twist to it(hes got great rythem). Now that i've started explaining the layout of his bass and so on, what notes are where and how you know they are that note, how to hold it properly, he now has the old style that he started with, and eventually he will have a good technique to add to it.

Its really hard to get my point across..

''It's quite common amongst guitarists of having all the technical ability in the world yet they fail to see the magic of one single note held or played in the right fashion over a simple Cmajor.''

Thats touching on what im talking about aswell...

''however if you spend too long on mechanical exercises to improve technique then that mechanical sound will leak into your playing.''

Thats also very true, thats another way of looking at it (imo). By doing my scales and so on with 'good technique', i end up 'feeling' the same riffs all the time, where as if i try it with 'bad' technique, it goes pear shaped, or just sounds different as such, but it has expanded my playing as im starting to learn how to cope with... fk ups..

Karl Hungus

Well honestly, I've never considered finger or thumb position to be "Technique", rather than just your finger and thumb position, and no, I certainly don't think that's the devil. Personally, my thumb is always in what you call the "Good" position, not because of anything I learned but just because it's what feels right, and I can get more movement that way, as my hands aren't very big. Bottom line, I do it because it works for me, not because anyone told me.

Likewise, I've been told that anchoring your pinky finger on the body of the guitar is bad, and while I tried to get used to picking without having the anchor, it just wasn't working. I played far, far more accurately with my pinky anchored to the guitar, and I just went back to that, because quite simply, that's what worked for me.

I get what you mean now though, but I'd still say no, that's not the devil.

Savman

Wahey! And a merry crimbo to all!:D

Rustar

The first pics you showed were classical finger positioning. You can't play the blues and bend 2 whole tones using the arch, unless you can crack walnuts with a mere flick of your finger.

For rock'n'roll and the blues, I'd think of it more as coming in at a 45 degree angle as opposed to the 90 degree arch of classical. Either one is valid, they're just used for different styles. Anchoring the thumb is good in either case, it'll give you the leverage for making good bends.

There's a third common technique (that I consider "bad technique") which I call the 'Ace Frehley finger flap', where the guitar is held really low on the body and strings are fretted with the meaty pads of the fingers. Jimmy Page was another user of this technique (or lack thereof). Neither one of them is considered to have good technique, but that didn't stop them from ripping out some way cool guitar solos.

The best way to see if your technique has become a part of your playing is to play with others.

Anchoring the right-hand pinkie might be bad technique, and prevent you from doing the speediest of metal licks (harder to 'wrist-flap' at high speeds) but I've done it all my life. I like to think I make slower but more meaningful notes.
I've probably made up for a picking speed deficit by doing an inordinate amount of hammer-ons and pull-offs as well. I do this thing sometimes when I'm soloing where I pick once and pull-off 4 frets in a row. Seems like the easiest thing in the world to me, but other guitarists always say 'whoa! that was cool...how the feck did you do that??'. :v:

Rustar

Ancient1 wrote:

Get rid of him. It's as simple as that. Technique is never an obstacle to creativity, it's a question of applying it properly in the right context.

Agreed. The bassist in a band should be the Bastion of Technique and be creative as well. Bass is not the 'easy instrument', and in my mind playing good bass is harder than playing good guitar.
Depends on the song, of course, but the bassist shouldn't always be playing the same notes as the guitarist or merely sitting on roots. Harmony and fullness are created by being the 'counterpoint' to what the rest of the band is doing.
The bass can be the rock solid foundation playing on the beat, the charging force by playing slightly ahead of the beat, or the jazzy component by playing slightly behind the beat. Add that to thinking in a harmonic sense, and using at least as many techniques as a guitarist (if not more), and it's a tough job! And an important one.
Oh, and then there's singing. I find playing bass and singing to be very hard, possibly because you need to be very precise with the bass and let go a bit more for vocals. I've read interviews with Paul McCartney, Sting, and Geddy Lee where they were asked "how do you play bass and sing?" and they all say the same thing.

Paul: tough. tons and tons of practice.
Sting: tough. I had to simplify my bass parts.
Geddy: tough. I had to choreograph the parts to fit together and not 'crash'.

Savman

Rustar wrote:

Bass is not the 'easy instrument', and in my mind playing good bass is harder than playing good guitar.

Why ruin an otherwise perfectly logical post with this silly comment?

Rustar

And why do you find it silly?

Savman

No given instrument is any more or less difficult to "play good" than any another instrument.

You're saying that good guitar playing is easy, I assure you it certainly isn't. I would agree that playing Bass Guitar well requires more than just simple root notes but on the other hand there are a million bass players in a million bands getting by on basics like this.;)

Rustar

Savman wrote:

No given instrument is any more or less difficult to "play good" than any another instrument.

I think you should drop your recorder, then, and pick up the concert pedal Grand Harp. Although maybe the digeridoo is more your speed.

Savman wrote:

You're saying that good guitar playing is easy, I assure you it certainly isn't.

Nope, never said that....never even implied that. You read into it, applying some faulty logic.

Savman wrote:

I would agree that playing Bass Guitar well requires more than just simple root notes but on the other hand there are a million bass players in a million bands getting by on basics like this.;)

And a million substandard guitar players as well. My point in that paragraph was that there's a popular misconception (especially among non-musicians) that bass playing is 'slimmed-down' guitar playing.....it's not.
I play both guitar and bass fairly competently, and yes, I think it's harder to apply technique and make the notes 'come alive', simply because you're pushing around telephone cables instead of silk threads.