Is there too many grey areas in the handball rule?

Necronomicon

Right, so this weekend we've had 5 handball-debatable incidents in the Premiership:

1) Zat Knight handled the ball out of play for a corner, presumably thinking the ball was out of touch...blatent!

2) Same game, John Terry blocks a shot that would have made Petr Cech proud.

3) Pascal Cygan handled in the Charlton game when the ball was in mid-air, it looked to me like he controlled it with his hand.

4) Nolberto Solano handled the ball off the line from a Liverpool corner from a Morientes header. He clearly leaned his hand towards it.

5) Milan Baros, the icing on the cake. First there was a debatable handball during the build up, then Baros controlled the ball with his hand, taking the ball away from the defender's foot and knocking it in, admitting post-match that he handled it.

Hand to ball, ball to hand, was he blocking his face, was it blasted at him, how far away was the shot taken from.....are there too many questions that a ref has to ask himself in a split-second decision when seeing a hand-ball?
Also interested to see who thought the above incidents were/weren't punishable.

gimmick

No, the way i see it, it is straight forward, if the ball hits your hand (ie not deliberate on your part), and it gives you an advantage, its a foul.

Some of yesterdays decisions where amazing. Whatever about Ridgewells handball, that poor fecker deserved a decision to go his way, but Baros' was as blatant as they come. That was just down to incompetence on the referee and his 'assistants' behalf, not interpretation.

cournioni

I reckon if the ball hits the hand, and stops a goal scoring opportunity or a shot on target, regardless of intent it should be a penalty. It is that simple.

Villain

The Laws of the game state that a free kick should only be given if a player "handles the ball deliberately".

So basically its up to the ref to deicide if the player deliberately handled the ball or not, if he believes he did he has to give a free kick if not play continues.

So the only grey area is the refs opinion, the law has changed in recent times though, previously the law stated that if a player gained an advantage from the ball hitting his hand it was a foul, that no loner is the case.

whiskeyman

Necromomicon wrote:

Hand to ball, ball to hand

That's always been my reasoning of it... deliberate handball being hand to ball.

I guess it just brings up the question of video evidence / vid referees once again.
One week it's bad fouls gone unnoticed.... another week it's the ball crossing the line (or didn't it) ... this week it's dodgy handball decisions.

Surely it's only a matter of time for it to be brought in to top-flight football.

MrJoeSoap

Don't see any gray areas myself, its just a matter of the referees being completely incompetent in most (if not all) of the above cases.

redspider

No, the rule and common-sense tells us that intent is the key. What matters is what the player does with his hand, whether he has played the ball on purpose or whether he has his hands out to block it. Looking at those incidents:


1) Zak Knight - it was a handball and a penalty. What he was thinking of I dont know, but a penalty should have been given. Its not for officials to give moral judgements on players errors.

2) John Terry - handball and a penalty. Just as in GAA when a player spreads himself or indeed when a goalie spreads himself to save, block a shot at close range, its the ball that hits the player, but the player has made the concious decision to put out his hands, so its hand to ball mentally. In the World Cup, Terry will get caught for this. In the league, he has gotten away with many of these over the last few years and even admitted how he thinks that its ok in his post match interview as well.

3) Pascal Cygan - again, what was he thinking of. What a plonker, It was a half-assed attempt to head it and then he found himself with his hand closer so he nudged it with that. If the ref saw it, he should have awarded a penalty.

4) Nolberto Solano - these are always tricky ones. Solano would have preferred to have taken it on the chest, which he was trying and in the end he cushioned with his upper arm. I'm a firm believer that the handball zone should end half-way on the upper arm bone. So for me, there was little malice intent although he was clearly keeping the ball out and if given it would have been the harshest of this bunch.

5) Milan Baros - clearly a handball. Baros also admitted it afterwards.


Grey areas will always remain with armballs (why do they call them handballs anyway ?!?!)

I think though to prevent players trying to get away with using their hands and arms sneakily, they should use post-match video evidence and come in with severe punishments. For example, a Video Panel could strike out a goal if it was deemed that the player used his hand in the move that led to a goal. I think it has to be that harsh. For a goal that was possibly prevented with a handball, eg: on the line, etc, a goal could be given, etc. It gets messy but without any post-match video panels, players will continue to try and get away with it, well some of them will, if they can.

Redspider

PHB

2) John Terry - handball and a penalty. Just as in GAA when a player spreads himself or indeed when a goalie spreads himself to save, block a shot at close range, its the ball that hits the player, but the player has made the concious decision to put out his hands, so its hand to ball mentally. In the World Cup, Terry will get caught for this. In the league, he has gotten away with many of these over the last few years and even admitted how he thinks that its ok in his post match interview as well.

This is spot on the ball, and this is where the problem comes from.
Ref's are scared to award those sorta penalties against Terry as without a doubt Mourinho will come out against them in the after match, and it will effect them.

They are penos, full stop.