Affordable housing question

Trampas

How much will you earn when you get back??

The income test
Single income household
If your gross income (before tax) in the last income tax year was 36,800 euro or less, you are eligible.

Two income households
Multiply the gross income (before tax) of the higher earner in the last income tax year by 2.5 and add the gross income of the other earner in the last income tax year. If the answer is 92,000 euro or less, you are eligible.

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/housing/buying_a_house_or_flat/affordable_housing_scheme.html?search=offordabl+housing

flogen

Trampas wrote:

How much will you earn when you get back??

I really won't know until I get back. I would venture a guess that between my girlfriend and I we would be below the limit. I'd be almost certain that individually I/she would be also, but I could be wrong.
If we are earning too much to be eligible then it would probably give us a better chance at being suitable for a mortgage (every cloud has a silver lining!)

coolhandluke

Even if you do meet the criteria,it's a lottery then anyway.I think you have to pay a non refundable e100 as well.I know 2 people who were going to go for it,decided it was too much hassle(i think your kind of stuck there,it's difficult to move,if your just looking for a starter home) and bought their own house instead.

MorningStar

To put a little reason on this.

Rent is a cost of a service provided anbody who thinks landlords by there nature are parasites should be banned.
Victor you should make it clear that insulting somebody becasue of a vital sevice they provide is not acceptable.

Administration of affordable housing scheme is not cheap or free. The added attempts of people jumping the schemes throught friends and family makes the scheme more costly.

OP

You appear to have contributed little or nothing to this economy I can't see any reason why you should be given any assistance to buy at this point and time. The restrictions are quite small so maybe you do it then. So you know rent is payment for a service that you recieved for your payment. You wanted to live somewhere you need to pay for it. Tax is paid on rental income so of people who have contributed to this economy, a landlord would have paid more tax than you have.

flogen

MorningStar wrote:

To put a little reason on this.

Rent is a cost of a service provided anbody who thinks landlords by there nature are parasites should be banned.
Victor you should make it clear that insulting somebody becasue of a vital sevice they provide is not acceptable.

Administration of affordable housing scheme is not cheap or free. The added attempts of people jumping the schemes throught friends and family makes the scheme more costly.

OP

You appear to have contributed little or nothing to this economy I can't see any reason why you should be given any assistance to buy at this point and time. The restrictions are quite small so maybe you do it then. So you know rent is payment for a service that you recieved for your payment. You wanted to live somewhere you need to pay for it. Tax is paid on rental income so of people who have contributed to this economy, a landlord would have paid more tax than you have.

This thread isn't about the merits of renting against buying, I already stated I don't want to rent for my own reasons, I was asking about affordable housing.

MorningStar

flogen wrote:

This thread isn't about the merits of renting against buying, I already stated I don't want to rent for my own reasons, I was asking about affordable housing.

I didn't say anything about renting versus buying. I took offense to calling landlords parasites which is what was said.

I also said I see no reson you should get subsidised housing based on the economic contribution you appear to have given this country.

So answer this why do you feel you should get affordable housing over somebody who has lived and worked in Ireland for say the last 3 years?

You might have a nice valid reason but from this thread you just seem to think you are entitled to it. If that is your only arguement you certainly won't get it. The terms and limited conditions have been stated you will be competing with single mothers and other people with some disadvantaged background and no education. A college educated couple will be seen as able to survive without any assistance

Victor

krd wrote:

I'm also a renter on a modest income. I refer to my landlord as that big fat parasite with an awful wife.

MorningStar wrote:

Rent is a cost of a service provided anbody who thinks landlords by there nature are parasites should be banned. Victor you should make it clear that insulting somebody becasue of a vital sevice they provide is not acceptable.

I think you are protesting too much, unless you are krd's landlord or the wife, you were not abused. If you were insulted, then you are too sensative.

In any case "all builders are cowboys" isn't exactly actionable. You cannot libel a class of people. If you manage to insult an entire class of people you are probably writing "An Irishman's Diary".

MorningStar wrote:

You appear to have contributed little or nothing to this economy I can't see any reason why you should be given any assistance to buy at this point and time. The restrictions are quite small so maybe you do it then. So you know rent is payment for a service that you recieved for your payment. You wanted to live somewhere you need to pay for it. Tax is paid on rental income so of people who have contributed to this economy, a landlord would have paid more tax than you have.

That said, yes, landlords do provide an important service. However, look at the subsidies offered to the property industry.

Mortgage interest relief.
CGT rate is half the income tax rate.
No property / wealth taxes.
Reduced rate of VAT on construction.
Section 23/27 type relief.
Subsidised local infrastructure.

In this light, is flogen looking for all that much?

flogen

MorningStar wrote:

I didn't say anything about renting versus buying. I took offense to calling landlords parasites which is what was said.

I also said I see no reson you should get subsidised housing based on the economic contribution you appear to have given this country.

So answer this why do you feel you should get affordable housing over somebody who has lived and worked in Ireland for say the last 3 years?

You might have a nice valid reason but from this thread you just seem to think you are entitled to it. If that is your only arguement you certainly won't get it. The terms and limited conditions have been stated you will be competing with single mothers and other people with some disadvantaged background and no education. A college educated couple will be seen as able to survive without any assistance

I don't think landlords are parasites generally, they provide a service that people seem willing to pay. I just don't want to pay for a service I don't need when paying for such will prohibit me from owning my own house.

Now, I have been (so far) living in the UK for 3 months. I will, by the summer have been living in the UK for 9 months max. Before then I have been living in Ireland and working in this country since I was 16. The fact that I needed to travel abroad to get my education doesn't disqualify me from anything, so I don't see how I differ from someone who has been "contributing" as you put it. The fact is that when I do apply I will need to have been working for at least 3 months, and have a long term contract in order to show I can continue to work. I have no expectiation to wander back into Ireland and walk into my new house. Even with affordable housing I will need to work and save for over a year before I actually get anything, so my contributions will be just the same.

Your comments about single mothers are also horribly flawed. People with dependents are given a higher priority for affordable housing.
I never said I felt I was entitled to anything, I actually started this thread to find out if I could apply or not, I'm making no demands. Also, just because I've been through college doesn't mean I'll end up in a well paying job either, to think otherwise is ignorant.
However, if the council decide that I am capable of getting a house without their help, I'm sure I'll be the first to know.

MorningStar

Victor wrote:

I think you are protesting too much, unless you are krd's landlord or the wife, you were not abused. If you were insulted, then you are too sensative.

I don't think so. The lanlord was obviously being called a parasite due to their trade and not actions of an individual. The whole discussion was saying how rent is a waste so the tone was clear.

Victor wrote:

In any case "all builders are cowboys" isn't exactly actionable. You cannot libel a class of people. If you manage to insult an entire class of people you are probably writing "An Irishman's Diary".

Builders or landlords are not a "class" of people. I never said anything was actionable but it extremely bias and unreasonable to assume an entire group of people are a fault by the mere fact they provide a service that people need.

Victor wrote:

That said, yes, landlords do provide an important service. However, look at the subsidies offered to the property industry.

Mortgage interest relief.
CGT rate is half the income tax rate.
No property / wealth taxes.
Reduced rate of VAT on construction.
Section 23/27 type relief.
Subsidised local infrastructure.

In this light, is flogen looking for all that much?

Everyone gets mortgage relief and most business get relief on business loans so nothing special there.
No idea what you call CGT.
No other business has to pay tax on appreciating asset untill sale so to bring it in would be discrimination. Plus many additional houses are pension plans.
What reduced VAT? Plus what does that really have to do with landlords?
Section relief was to stimulate growth in very select areas and benifit everybody in the areas because the government wouldn't spend the money itself. Again the building industry is not landlords.
In the old days and in most other countries infastructure is provided free to zoned areas. So subsidised what it should be free.

By adding the whole property business you are just muddying the waters.

So nothing for landlords is special to them it is business so are you going to gointo shops and demand free stuff.

flogen wrote:

Your comments about single mothers are also horribly flawed. People with dependents are given a higher priority for affordable housing.
I never said I felt I was entitled to anything, I actually started this thread to find out if I could apply or not, I'm making no demands. Also, just because I've been through college doesn't mean I'll end up in a well paying job either, to think otherwise is ignorant.
However, if the council decide that I am capable of getting a house without their help, I'm sure I'll be the first to know.

Flawed on what basis it is true they base it on personal cicumstances so nothing I have said is untrue. These houses are like hens teeth so you need to be pretty special to get them.

muffler

Just curious MorningStar but are you a landlord?

ionapaul

muffler wrote:

Just curious MorningStar but are you a landlord?

Lol...I would have thought that was fairly obvious

flogen

MorningStar wrote:

Flawed on what basis it is true they base it on personal cicumstances so nothing I have said is untrue. These houses are like hens teeth so you need to be pretty special to get them.

My apologies, I misread your comment.
I never claimed that I was entitled to anything, nor did I assume I was. If I do meet the criteria when I'm working, however, I will apply. I don't see any reason why not to, and I won't bank on anything coming out of it either.
I do think it's ignorant an ignorant assumption to make that college educated people are not going to be applicable, however. While I don't have dependents (thankfully), there's as good a chance as any that any job I get will be under the max. income limit for a number of years.
While 10 or more years ago a college education ensured a great job, that's not always the case anymore.

gurramok

MorningStar wrote:

You might have a nice valid reason but from this thread you just seem to think you are entitled to it. If that is your only arguement you certainly won't get it. The terms and limited conditions have been stated you will be competing with single mothers and other people with some disadvantaged background and no education. A college educated couple will be seen as able to survive without any assistance

Hold on a minute, affordable housing is only given out to people that work and can pay back a high mortgage whether its 80k or 150k, it's still a financial strain and similar to alot of people who get mortages from banks. You are getting mixed up with social housing.

I sincerely doubt a single mother who works can afford one of these mortages never mind myself who is college educated on less than the income limit of €36,800, would get refused a bank mortgage of 150k and cannot afford a place of my own even with a partner and how house prices go, i'd need a 100k deposit for most places in my locality.

MorningStar

gurramok wrote:

Hold on a minute, affordable housing is only given out to people that work and can pay back a high mortgage whether its 80k or 150k, it's still a financial strain and similar to alot of people who get mortages from banks. You are getting mixed up with social housing.

I sincerely doubt a single mother who works can afford one of these mortages never mind myself who is college educated on less than the income limit of €36,800, would get refused a bank mortgage of 150k and cannot afford a place of my own even with a partner and how house prices go, i'd need a 100k deposit for most places in my locality.

The point is all social circumstances are considered. Your income is part of the qualifier but your situation is key. Limited houses mean limited selection. Just like college places the points are determined by demand and not just the minimum qualifications.

If houses need 100k deposits then it is extremely unlikely there is any affordable housing there at. THe developers were allowed buy out the councils and councils were then meant to provide housing. As a general rule they didn't so no housing was provided. If the deposit is 100k and you can't afford it it isn't really "your" locality it might be where you grew up or I guess you could be renting. I think the expectation to live where you grew up is a little overblown. It might sound a bit cold but it is realistic. THe possibilty of all owning a three bed semi in a nice leafy area is in truth an unrealistic goal for all and more importantly it is want not need.

flogen

I think the idea of giving people from the area a better chance has two big advantages; 1) the people know the area, can settle quicker and will have less chance of moving somewhere they don't like and be stuck with it until they can set up and 2) to stop people just applying to every county council in the city/county/country. I mean, people would kick up a fuss if they were from Ballymun, where a lot of the affordable housing is, but they couldn't get a place because someone from the country or the other side of the city was getting it instead

gurramok

MorningStar wrote:

The point is all social circumstances are considered. Your income is part of the qualifier but your situation is key. Limited houses mean limited selection. Just like college places the points are determined by demand and not just the minimum qualifications.

If houses need 100k deposits then it is extremely unlikely there is any affordable housing there at. THe developers were allowed buy out the councils and councils were then meant to provide housing. As a general rule they didn't so no housing was provided. If the deposit is 100k and you can't afford it it isn't really "your" locality it might be where you grew up or I guess you could be renting. I think the expectation to live where you grew up is a little overblown. It might sound a bit cold but it is realistic. THe possibilty of all owning a three bed semi in a nice leafy area is in truth an unrealistic goal for all and more importantly it is want not need.

Ok, but the problem is the cheapest house/appt in my area (Finglas) is roughly 240k at moment. Thats the bottom price of the market in entire Dublin, hardly leafy.
That means for 2 people on incomes below 40k will need a massive deposit(upto 100k) to make sure they don't end up in severe debt. (35% of net wages on mortgage is considered safe), its impossible. Thousands of people are in this rut. Its double worse if your single

For affordable housing, prices start around 160-180k is just about reachable with the shared ownership scheme. even for single people. A huge deposit helps here for a small mortgage, 2 people on 150k mortgage is more manageable than 250k mortgage.

Affordable housing schemes in my area virtually all went to working people, single mothers are allocated social housing instead, mostly councing housing which were bought by the council from old people needing smaller accomodation
Failing to afford a place to live, we all might as well migrate to Donegal or something but we shouldn't have to, i am entitled to live in my own city hence more affordable housing eases hardship.(presently living at home as are so many in my age bracket (under 35s), the richer ones can rent but not afford housing of their own).