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KYOTO Protocol

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  • 29-12-2005 11:18pm
    #1
    lazydaisy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭


    It seems that 10 EU nations missed the emissions goal, including Ireland, whose emissions were up by 40%.

    Does this tell us that the goals outlined in the KYOTO agreement are unreasonable or that those nations which failed to reach the goals are not doing what they should be doing, whatever that may be?


    http://washingtontimes.com/upi/20051228-044857-1435r.htm


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    #2
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Actually the agreement allows for countries to go over thier limits. However to do so they need to buy free credits from countries that don't pollute as much.

    I am curious if any have done this?


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    #3
    Nox
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Nox


    Hobbes wrote:
    Actually the agreement allows for countries to go over thier limits. However to do so they need to buy free credits from countries that don't pollute as much.

    Okay ... I will assume this is correct. However, it still doesn't answer the question about the increase in pollution and whether the limits are unreasonable.

    The ramifications of the answer to this question go directly to the reason the US did not sign off on the treaty ... and has subsequently been the target of a whole host of critics.

    Nox


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    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nox wrote:
    Okay ... I will assume this is correct. However, it still doesn't answer the question about the increase in pollution and whether the limits are unreasonable.
    Nox
    Oh it is correct, we even have a body in Ireland charged with buying and selling the credits

    Heres the background to the system in the E.U

    http://www.euireland.ie/news/environment/1205/kyotomechanisms.htm

    It's actually a workable solution in my opinion in that it means kyoto works but countries that need to can have flexibility as other countries over achieve on their targets.


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    #5
    lazydaisy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭lazydaisy


    Have the other countries earned enough credits to sell?

    With 40% rise in emmission how much would it cost Ireland to buy enough credits to come up to par?

    So, if you have the money you can pollute all you want? But countries that dont have the money cant?


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lazydaisy wrote:
    So, if you have the money you can pollute all you want? But countries that dont have the money cant?
    It's not as simple as that.
    You'd have to look at each country , see what its industry is, see what its GNP is and take it from there.
    AFAIK countries that do better than their targets can sell credits which is a good thing.


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    #7
    Nox
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Nox


    Earthman wrote:
    It's actually a workable solution in my opinion in that it means kyoto works but countries that need to can have flexibility as other countries over achieve on their targets.

    Kyoto works? Ireland has to buy credits to make it work for Ireland ... and you expect me to believe that Kyoto works?

    Wanna buy my used car?

    Nox


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    #8
    lazydaisy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭lazydaisy


    Ok, so what if there are not enough credits to go around? Lets say only 4 countries meet the goal, then there are a limited amount of credits to sell, but lets say 21 countries need to buy credits.

    Is there a fixed price on them or does it go to auction?

    Can someone answer, how much would Ireland have to pay at its current 40%increase in emmissions? So far Britain is meeting its goals. So, how much would Ireland have to pay Britain to get up to standard?

    Im trying to understand this system. Please help.


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    #9
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    lazydaisy wrote:
    Have the other countries earned enough credits to sell?

    Numerous third world countries are well below thier pollution emissions levels and some have even implemented pollution free based energy systems to help further selling credits (if you believe the BP adverts on TV).
    Kyoto works? Ireland has to buy credits to make it work for Ireland ... and you expect me to believe that Kyoto works?

    Well that was the whole point of Kyoto is to lower emissions worldwide but factored in that other countries would become developed at a later stage. For example Chinas limit is so high that they can sell credits at this time but 10 years down the line this may no longer be the case.


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    #10
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    lazydaisy wrote:
    Im trying to understand this system. Please help.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

    Credits are sold on open market so price can change on demand. There are other ways to generate credits though.


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    #11
    elvenscout742
    Closed Accounts Posts: 206 ✭✭elvenscout742


    What does "K. Y. O. T. O." stand for?


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    #12
    Elvis Mc Fonzy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Elvis Mc Fonzy


    elvenscout742 wrote:
    What does "K. Y. O. T. O." stand for?

    thats a joke right?


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    #13
    elvenscout742
    Closed Accounts Posts: 206 ✭✭elvenscout742


    Elvis Mc Fonzy wrote:
    thats a joke right?

    Of course. It was just a play on the fact that lazydaisy spelt it twice in BLOCK CAPITALS.

    If I'm backed into a corner, I could point out that anyone who posted the name in this thread without putting a macron on the first "o" was misspelling it ;) .


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    #14
    Maskhadov
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Maskhadov


    lazydaisy wrote:
    It seems that 10 EU nations missed the emissions goal, including Ireland, whose emissions were up by 40%.

    Does this tell us that the goals outlined in the KYOTO agreement are unreasonable or that those nations which failed to reach the goals are not doing what they should be doing, whatever that may be?


    http://washingtontimes.com/upi/20051228-044857-1435r.htm

    Those emission targets have to be taken with a pince of salt anyway. they are based on your economy in 1990. We were a cow pad of a country back then and trying to reduce our emmsions to 1990's levels would be a miracle.

    What bugs me however is this government policy towards renewable energy. There is 110% of our energy needs off the coast in the form of wind energy yet the government is stalling to fund windfarms and its a national disgrace.
    http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=184&si=1535957&issue_id=13495
    All the while, the wind sector continues to expand. The number of wind farms in the State is set to double by the end of the decade in a move that should ensure Ireland meets the EU target of generating 13.2pc of its power from renewables.

    Latest figures from transmission system operator ESB National Grid indicate that some 40 wind farms have signed contracts, which give them the right to link up to the national grid.

    However, Eddie O'Connor's Airtricity said it would not complete all of the Arklow banks off-shore wind farm. It opened a 25 megawatt section of the wind farm this year, but a lack of Government supports meant it was pulling the plug on the full €630m project with 200 turbines.

    Those 200 turbines should be built. The fact that the government wont cough up the green to fund this scheme is pathetic. The Irish electricity market as anti-competitive and anti-consumer and we have to urgently address it.


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