Carr and Sourness in bust up?

therecklessone

Newcastle Evening Standard article

Graeme Souness had a bust-up with defender Stephen Carr before the Newcastle squad flew to London for Saturday's game with Spurs.

And the outcome was that, after originally being named in the squad to go to his former club, the 29-year-old former Republic of Ireland international did not even travel.

I understand that at one point Souness asked Carr if he was fully committed to Newcastle United - and there is now talk that the defender may ask for a transfer.

Whether that happens, or whether the incident is dead, remains to be seen.

Things go from bad to worse for Sourness, blighted by injuries and now so-called "stars" are throwing a strop. I've little time for Sourness, but even less for Carr (and before anyone starts...I thought that at least two years before he left Spurs). I just don't think Carr is a good professional, TBH his behaviour over the last few years strikes me as mercenary.

Lemlin

That Souness was ever even given the Newcastle job amazes me. He was on his last legs at Blackburn at the time.

Vokes

Souness was only third choice for the job though, wasn't he? after Bruce and Alardyce rejected it.

How has Carr's form been this season? I assume its not great cos of all the goals the defence has been leaking.

Guy:Incognito

therecklessone wrote:

Newcastle Evening Standard article



Things go from bad to worse for Sourness, blighted by injuries and now so-called "stars" are throwing a strop. I've little time for Sourness, but even less for Carr (and before anyone starts...I thought that at least two years before he left Spurs). I just don't think Carr is a good professional, TBH his behaviour over the last few years strikes me as mercenary.

Whether it's deserved or not, he always struck me as a bit of a "paycheck collector" , as in he just turns up every week tocollect his wages and does the bare minimum. He only got caps for Ireland in the last couple of years because Kerr had some sort of Steve Finann mental block.

Necronomicon

If I was Souness I wouldn't worry, I'd keep Peter Ramage in the side even if Carr came back to fitness.

Jonny Arson

Even though I despise Souness, Carr showed his true colours when he bailed out on Ireland in the manner he did. I'd sell Carr. He's too inconsistent, doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve and is highly injury prone.

therecklessone

Stekelly wrote:

Whether it's deserved or not, he always struck me as a bit of a "paycheck collector" , as in he just turns up every week tocollect his wages and does the bare minimum.

As a Spurs fan, my problem stems from the fact that he chose to live off his one good season with the club (when he scored that screamer against ManYoo) and did exactly what you accussed him of towards the end, turned up for the paycheck and f*ck all else. Then he left us for a "big club" in search of success...in search of a fatter paycheck more like...

Oh how we enjoyed our chorus of "are you watching Stephen Carr" on Saturday...:D

Guy:Incognito

OT but while we're talking about paychecks I found it quite amusing when I was reading Robbie Fowlers book recently (great read, if it's all true i have to say I really admire him) ad found out that footballers actually get a wage slip. I can just see Rio rushing home every week clutching his pay check, ripping it open and seeing "Basic - £120,000, goal bonus £5000"etc.:D

Big Nelly

therecklessone wrote:

As a Spurs fan, my problem stems from the fact that he chose to live off his one good season with the club (when he scored that screamer against ManYoo) and did exactly what you accussed him of towards the end, turned up for the paycheck and f*ck all else. Then he left us for a "big club" in search of success...in search of a fatter paycheck more like...

Oh how we enjoyed our chorus of "are you watching Stephen Carr" on Saturday...:D

Didn't Carr get PL right back of the season twice? if I remember correct he did and was there best player over a few seasons. Then got an injury which knocked him out for around 2 seasons. At that stage he was one of Irelands best players and did alot for Ireland getting to World Cup. But sure why remember this when we can slate a player? he left Spurs because they where doing f**k all and joined Newcastle when they had a proper manager in charge. How was he to know that Spurs where going to get there squad into shape and that Newcastle would hire a terrible manager.

Anyway this should be the last straw for the Newcastle board. They have to admit at this stage that Souness is a joke. Every sports program I watch has the same view as me that he should be sacked. He crys on and on about injury problem but if you have a player like Titus Bramble in your squad and still actual play him then its your own problem.

Lemlin

Or if you pay 8.5 million for a player Rangers got for free. And a player that is a terrible defender.

galwaydude

newcastle should get rid of souness as soon as. He has spent a fortune on overated players since he joined. He did an ok job at blacburn but as everyone can see mark hughes is doing a fantastic job at blackburn now. Also heard a rumour that he had another heart scare over the last few weeks.


Now owen is injured for 3 months there screwed.

Triton

He was even afraid to talk to the press after Owen's injury. Sent his assistant or someone like that out to face them.

wheres me jumpa

i was actually a fan of carr. thought he was an excellent player. i think it was nial quinn who i heard saying he worked his socks off in training and would always stay on late working in the gym. but he really hasnt done it for newcastle. i thought it was a bad move for him, no offence to newcastle fans.

as for his time at spurs, im sure there was a time he was playing excellent football at spurs? to say the man has never proved himself is just wrong. i can remember arsenal were even chasing him at one stage. injuries have taken their toll and its hard to see him turning his career around, especially under souness.

when souness got the job i was actually happy for the man. i thought it was a good opportunity to work with one of the bigger teams in england and change peoples opinions about him. but imo he has just carried on the same way as always, tearing the club to pieces with his hard ass attitude.

Lemlin

Who's playing right back for Rangers at the minute? I wonder what the odds are on Souness making a bid for their right back, quite short I'd say.

And when he does make an offer, it'll more than likely be a few million too much.

zAbbo

Is it Michael Ball?

It's taken Liverpool a long time to recover from the Souness era, he's got the midas touch, except everything he touches, turns to crap

Big Nelly

zabbo wrote:

Is it Michael Ball?

Ball left in summer to join some Dutch team

zabbo wrote:

It's taken Liverpool a long time to recover from the Souness era, he's got the midas touch, except everything he touches, turns to crap

Agree Souness made a joke of Liverpool but I think it is not only him to blame. Houllier spent millions on a load of French wasters. Also bought Diouf and Diao for way over the top money.

therecklessone

Big Nelly wrote:

Didn't Carr get PL right back of the season twice?

Indeed he did. Once in 2001 (when he deserved it) and once in 2003 (when I can only assume there were no other fit RBs playing in the league for the entire season he was that poor). As for our best player, I'll leave it to Jim Duggan, editor of Spurs site Topspurs to sum up my feelings:

After reportedly missing out on following a transfer to the Goons on account of his injury record the previous summer, Carr played last season with a scowl on his face, bollocking others while more often than not cocking up himself more often.

That pretty much sums up his post-injury record at Spurs.

If there's one thing I hate more than Sol Campbell [strike]stabbing us in the back[/strike] leaving us for Arsenal, its a professional footballer doing nothing to earn his wage. And Carr did nothing to earn his wage.

Big Nelly wrote:

But sure why remember this when we can slate a player?

Maybe because despite his ability, he now looks like he can't be arsed? Not bothering in his last two years at Spurs because he wants out, retiring from international football at 29, and now fighting with his manager at Newcastle when they need as many experienced players as possible? Its not like he's got a busy CL schedule ahead of him every season...

Big Nelly wrote:

he left Spurs because they where doing f**k all and joined Newcastle when they had a proper manager in charge. How was he to know that Spurs where going to get there squad into shape and that Newcastle would hire a terrible manager.

He agitated for a move from Spurs for two years, and didn't make an effort for us while he was doing so. He was appointed captain under David Pleat and still couldn't be arsed. And as for his career progression, IMO Carr was more interested in the size of the pay packet than the size of the club, and I think thats being borne out by his behaviour at his current club.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

Who's playing right back for Rangers at the minute?

Peter Ramage.

Big Nelly wrote:

Ball left in summer to join some Dutch team

PSV. But was he ever at Newcastle, or is there two Michael Ball's?

Villain

I think Carr is too big for his boots, you may remember I posted here a year or so ago about his bust up with Kerr. He has great ability no doubting that he just seems a bit cocky and big headed. Although I wouldn't blaim him for having a row with Souness, he done a lot of damage at Liverpool and I can see the same thing happening at Newcastle. I can't see Owen being there next season either, he's too good, I'd also be surprised if Given stays he's been one of the best if not the best keeper in the PL this season.

therecklessone

irish1 wrote:

I'd also be surprised if Given stays he's been one of the best if not the best keeper in the PL this season.

This perplexes me more and more. Why the hell have none of the big four come in for Given yet? He's 2nd best GK in the PL, just behind Cech.

Big Nelly

therecklessone wrote:

when I can only assume there were no other fit RBs playing in the league for the entire season he was that poor

Think that G Neville would differ there

therecklessone wrote:

PSV. But was he ever at Newcastle, or is there two Michael Ball's?

I took it as the Michael Ball that left Everton to move to Rangers for 6million or so and spent alot of time with injury problems.

Töpher

therecklessone wrote:

This perplexes me more and more. Why the hell have none of the big four come in for Given yet? He's 2nd best GK in the PL, just behind Cech.

Maybe he had too long left on his contract and Newcastle were demanding too much? I'm sure at this stage there has to have at least been enquries into him, he's top class.

Big Nelly

therecklessone wrote:

This perplexes me more and more. Why the hell have none of the big four come in for Given yet? He's 2nd best GK in the PL, just behind Cech.

Before last World Cup after he had got back into the team he signed a long contract. Think Arsenal at one stage wanted him but Newcastle said they want 10million or something mental like that so they bought mophead. Was another few clubs looking about him as well but mental money was being looked for. He was under contract so nothing much he could do. He is not the type to put in transfer request and sit with a puss on his face

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

Peter Ramage.



PSV. But was he ever at Newcastle, or is there two Michael Ball's?

I never knew Peter Ramage played for Rangers. Perhaps you should read my question again.

As for Given, Football365 just named him their keeper of their year.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

I never knew Peter Ramage played for Rangers. Perhaps you should read my question again.

Indeed you're right, my apologies.

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

Indeed you're right, my apologies.

Its not me you owe the apology to. I believe its Big Nelly who you incorrectly addressed.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

Its not me you owe the apology to. I believe its Big Nelly who you incorrectly addressed.

Eh?

I quoted you asking who plays RB at Rangers.

I replied Peter Ramage.

You correct me.

I apologise.

Where does Big Nelly come into it?

[edit]I misread your original question, and thought you were talking about Newcastle. I told Big Nelly that Ball was at PSV, but was confused by his choice of words because I knew the Ball at PSV had never played for Newcastle...question re. whether he'd been at Newcastle led from original error[/edit]

Lemlin

When he said Michael Ball had left Rangers, you replied:

Originally posted by therecklessone
PSV. But was he ever at Newcastle, or is there two Michael Ball's?

therecklessone

Read edit above.

I owe him no apology.

Lemlin

Grand so. Btw, in an unrelated topic, your lot after meant to be after MGP, I posted about it in the Jansen thread.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

Grand so. Btw, in an unrelated topic, your lot after meant to be after MGP, I posted about it in the Jansen thread.

Saw it, chose not to comment.

Corben Dallas

That Souness is a top quality talented manager.......NOT! :v:

what an a-hole, before a diffulcult match, both for Newcaslte and Carr (former player at that club) Souness (probably) instegates a bust up with Carr. Smart move.

I feel sorry for Newcastle fans, Blackburn are well rid of him, all he seems to do is bitch about his injuries, his players playing for England, and in his spare time has bust up with players.

He was 1 match away from being sacked recently, he'll be gone before the seasons out. I hope he goes to Rangers so that Celtic can beat them every week.

Lemlin

Alot of the Blackburn players say that they weren't conditioned at all correctly when Souness was manager, and are alot fitter under Hughes.

Could this also have something to do with the consistent injury problems at Newcastle?

Rikand

Lemlin wrote:

Alot of the Blackburn players say that they weren't conditioned at all correctly when Souness was manager, and are alot fitter under Hughes.

Could this also have something to do with the consistent injury problems at Newcastle?

not only the blackburn players, think sparky came out and said it himself too

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

Alot of the Blackburn players say that they weren't conditioned at all correctly when Souness was manager, and are alot fitter under Hughes.

Any links?

Lemlin wrote:

Could this also have something to do with the consistent injury problems at Newcastle?

Unlikely, of Newcastle's current injured Owen and Given have breaks, not something that I would associate with proper/unproper conditioning. They happen in football. Luque arrived unfit and hasn't ever really gotten fit since he arrived, he has a bad attitude by the looks of things. Dyer has always had injury problems, and I think Emre is also a bit prone. Carr as well.

People were making similar claims on Benetiz's fitness regime last year at Liverpool when they had injuries, what's changed this year? Injuries are apart of football, and how many times have we seen them pour on particular clubs in one season? Plenty.

As regards Carr, I don't like the guy. His performances and even attitude while with the Irish team have been poor for years. He looks very disinterested. It really irritated me that he kept Finnan out of the RB slot.

Lemlin

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Any links?


Unlikely, of Newcastle's current injured Owen and Given have breaks, not something that I would associate with proper/unproper conditioning. They happen in football. Luque arrived unfit and hasn't ever really gotten fit since he arrived, he has a bad attitude by the looks of things. Dyer has always had injury problems, and I think Emre is also a bit prone. Carr as well.

People were making similar claims on Benetiz's fitness regime last year at Liverpool when they had injuries, what's changed this year? Injuries are apart of football, and how many times have we seen them pour on particular clubs in one season? Plenty.

As regards Carr, I don't like the guy. His performances and even attitude while with the Irish team have been poor for years. He looks very disinterested. It really irritated me that he kept Finnan out of the RB slot.

Looking for links, I found this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/content/articles/2005/05/06/sport_souness_questions_feature.shtml. Very interesting to hear the thoughts of some Newcastle fans on their manager, don't seem very happy, do they?

If you look through the questions there, one fan does ask: "Why have several Blackburn players said that their fitness has improved greatly since you left?".

Can't find an official link at the moment. It was reported on the Official Rovers site a while back and it seems that RickyLovesYouAll read the same report. As he pointed out above.

The Newcastle fan who asked that question also seems to have heard the same. So that's 3 people who've heard it now, are you willing to accept the point now?

Also, if you want to stick up for Souness, how about you start at the top of this thread and work your way down. I'm not the only one slagging him off you know. Just read the posts.

Chucky the tree

Never liked carr, hope he rots in the reserves.

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

Looking for links, I found this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/content/articles/2005/05/06/sport_souness_questions_feature.shtml. Very interesting to hear the thoughts of some Newcastle fans on their manager, don't seem very happy, do they?

If you look through the questions there, one fan does ask: "Why have several Blackburn players said that their fitness has improved greatly since you left?".

Can't find an official link at the moment. It was reported on the Official Rovers site a while back and it seems that RickyLovesYouAll read the same report. As he pointed out above.

The Newcastle fan who asked that question also seems to have heard the same. So that's 3 people who've heard it now, are you willing to accept the point now?

A simple "No" would have saved you a lot of typing.

Lemlin wrote:

Also, if you want to stick up for Souness, how about you start at the top of this thread and work your way down. I'm not the only one slagging him off you know. Just read the posts.

I'm not sticking up for Souness, he needs his teams performances to improve if he wants them to challenge for European qualification. I couldn't be bothered "starting at the top" as I've said many times before, there is no point even conversing with the types that give it the "Souness is a joke".

I'm not having a go at you slagging him off, I'm asking you to provide links (better than some faceless pulled radio interview) to a pretty strong accussation that you made. You have failed to provide anything conclusive IMO. I'm not saying you are lying, I'd just like to see the reports.

Big Nelly

Just one question, how many Irish players has Souness fallen out with? got rid of at clubs once he takes over them?

Big Nelly

Newcastle's injury woes have increased, with midfielder Scott Parker undergoing a knee operation on Wednesday afternoon which will sideline him for three to five weeks.

The England player injured his right knee in the 4-2 win at West Ham on December 17 and was due to have surgery in London.

Newcastle said on their official website, [url]www.nufc.co.uk:[/url] "Scott Parker will go into a London hospital on Wednesday afternoon for a minor operation and is expected to be absent for between three and five weeks."

Thats there 2 best players out. Souness will follow soon I think

WhiteWashMan

souness is going for a knee operation on wednesday and is expected to be absent for 4-5 weeks?

glad we beat them at the weekend so! they will probably be more organised in his absence

Lemlin

WhiteWashMan wrote:

souness is going for a knee operation on wednesday and is expected to be absent for 4-5 weeks?

glad we beat them at the weekend so! they will probably be more organised in his absence

Very drole.

Apparently he'll be gone today though. Sky Sports have been reporting all morning that he has a meeting with Freddy Shepherd today.

Its also been reported on Yahoo Sport that they are lining up Big Sam as a replacement. Not sure about that though. Can't see him leaving Bolton.

Newcastle may be a bigger club but they're in bits at the moment.

WhiteWashMan

bolton. on course for europe. in last 32 of uefa cup. good solid squad. consistant.

newcastle. not in europe. not going to be in europe. have a good cup run to look forward too. not a solid squad. inconsistant. appear to have a small leprechaun with a hammer who goes around injuring everyone at st james park.

i know who id rather manage.....

BaZmO*

SOUNESS SEEKS OUT ANELKA

Under-pressure Newcastle boss Graeme Souness could be set to solve his striker crisis by making a move for Fenerbahce ace Nicolas Anelka.

The Magpies chief, who saw his team take just one point from three games over the festive period, is facing up to life without Michael Owen after the England hotshot was ruled out for three months with a broken toe.

Souness is a long-time admirer of controversial former Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester City ace Anelka and could now tempt his Turkish side with a bid.

Anelka, 26, would relish the chance to return to England and was quoted in the Sun as saying: "If I do leave Fenerbahce, I would like to go to England. The idea of returning to a big club is moving me forward."

The pressure on Souness, meanwhile, shows no sign of easing with some reports on Monday suggesting the gruff Scot could lose his job in the next 72 hours, with Bolton boss Sam Allardyce touted as a potential successor.

Just what you need if you're having problems with your squad, Anelka the team player!! :rolleyes:

B.

Lemlin

BaZmO* wrote:

Just what you need if you're having problems with your squad, Anelka the team player!! :rolleyes:

B.

Yep, I read that this morning and thought exactly the same. Can you imagine having two personalities like him and Shearer in the dressing room? Anelka would quickly have to learn who was boss.

Big Nelly

I would think that is the last thing he needs. Puss in boats. Give it 2 weeks if he does sign and the toy will be out of the pram and then the so called "brother" will be called in:rolleyes:

Triton

Originally posted by Jivin Turkey
I'm not having a go at you slagging him off, I'm asking you to provide links (better than some faceless pulled radio interview) to a pretty strong accussation that you made. You have failed to provide anything conclusive IMO. I'm not saying you are lying, I'd just like to see the reports.

I too remember reading these reports. I've also noticed how players like Steven Reid and David Thompson have got over their injury problems at Blackburn under the new management. Perhaps it does have something to do with Souness.

Either way, he has been given a chance at two top English clubs now, and has failed miserably at both.

Rangers beckons methinks. McLeish is on his way out and it'd suit Souness down to the ground.

Jivin Turkey

Big Nelly wrote:

Just one question, how many Irish players has Souness fallen out with? got rid of at clubs once he takes over them?

Did you not know? Souness hates Irish people.

Lemlin wrote:

Apparently he'll be gone today though. Sky Sports have been reporting all morning that he has a meeting with Freddy Shepherd today.

Well past half six and still no word. Trying to stir a bit of sh*t? Perhaps you should get a job with a rag.

Triton wrote:

I too remember reading these reports. I've also noticed how players like Steven Reid and David Thompson have got over their injury problems at Blackburn under the new management. Perhaps it does have something to do with Souness.

Surely if these reports were so widespread, as they seem to be, one would still be able to track them down now???

On you other point, what have you noticed about David Thompson? That he has started two games this season? Yeah that's what I would call being "over their injury problems at Blackburn under new management".

Triton wrote:

Either way, he has been given a chance at two top English clubs now, and has failed miserably at both.

He has had just over a year at Newcastle, I would hardly call being in a similar position as they were when he took over a miserable failure.

What about the other jobs he had in England? Want to ignore them in order to make your point seem valid? Grand.

Triton

Go have a look for the reports yourself if it pleases you. Looks like no-one else has time or could be bothered.

I'm making the point that he's obviously a low-level manager, like a Harry Redknapp or Joe Kinnear. He's obviously not meant to manage at the top level.

Jivin Turkey

Triton wrote:

Go have a look for the reports yourself if it pleases you. Looks like no-one else has time or could be bothered.

I've tried and I have not found any. If you want to make a bold statement I'd appreciate if you could back it up.

Take what you said about David Thompson. You consider him playing about 200 minutes of football in almost eight months as being "over his injury problems". Why should I take anything you say as gospel? Same goes for Lemlin.

Triton wrote:

I'm making the point that he's obviously a low-level manager, like a Harry Redknapp or Joe Kinnear. He's obviously not meant to manage at the top level.

I don't think Souness is a top manager. Just like I don't think Newcastle are a top club.

I do not think however that he doesn't have what it takes to manage at the top level (Did you also imply that Harry Redknapp is also unfit to do so? Because if you did you are again wrong) evidenced by almost 15 years of top level management.

Lemlin

Originally posted by Jivin Turkey
Well past half six and still no word. Trying to stir a bit of sh*t? Perhaps you should get a job with a rag.

Take your problem up with Sky Sports, not me. They reported it.

And, as pointed out above, I have no wishes for another Souness appreciation thread.

I'm not the only one here saying Souness is a terrible manager. If you've problems with anyone's opinion, how about you start at the top and work your way down, like I suggested.