Evidence that Wicknight can be a tit. Yes I know, its hard to believe

solas

wicknight wrote:

My first post was merely to point out that Solas is completely wrong when he links the supersition of a bird flying into a house with the history of animal divination. It doesn't pure and simple.

any reference to animal divination was an attempt to keep the thread in tack. The thread wasn't about superstition, the thread was about someones experience, and was instantly labelled a thread abut superstiion by luckcat.

it goes like this:

A: "has anyone else had such an experience"?

b: No but its just supersition. Supertition is x, y, z.

thats not what the forum is about. There are exceptions to the rule, if someone comes in and throws out the question "hey what do you think of superstition", then I wouldnt hesitate to allow a discussion to continue.

solas

This is akin to suggesting a politics forum where no-one can hold a different political view to the Moderator.

paranormal isnt the politics forum. Its not a place of us v's them, or left vs right. It would be more akin to the media forum, where items of interest are offered up for discussion.

solas

Wicknight, do you believe in the paranormal or do you just believe all paranormal experiences can be rationalised?

Shabadu

solas wrote:

paranormal isnt the politics forum. Its not a place of us v's them, or left vs right. It would be more akin to the media forum, where items of interest are offered up for discussion.

Ah, yes, I see that now.

o.O?

It was an analogy, a valid one I feel.

EDIT: AH, You stealth edited. You see, what is handed up in the media forum is generally FACT. There are exceptions of course. The point is, you try as hard as you can to minimise 'discussion' rather than maintaining a space for it.

Zombrex

psi wrote:

And in a forum where most people want to naturall debunk the beliefs or opinon of the original poster because they don't quite fit in with what everyone else would view as "common sense" that may be a bit of a problem.

Er, sorry but did you are Solas actually bother to read the OP?

La Rack wrote:

So basically, do birds have some weird connection to deaths and that or is my great aunt in law just a tad spooky?

Notice the "?" at the end. The OP is asking a question, specifically the connection between birds and death.

I didn't even say "No its nonsense", I merely attempted to explain the history of the supersition and others like it. The OP is free to make up his own mind after that.

This is ridiculous, seemingly it is thread spoiling to even attempt to provide answers for the original post.

The reason I was threatened with ban was that I didn't accept the argument that the supersition is connected to animal divination as Solas put forward. The reason I didn't accept that is because she is wrong.

Zombrex

solas wrote:

Wicknight, do you believe in the paranormal or do you just believe all paranormal experiences can be rationalised?

Is that relievent?

You are still claiming I am some how trying to thread spoil the discussion when in fact I was simply explaining the history of the supersition. please point out where I thread spoiled or broke the charter?

And for a point of fact, i think the word "paranormal" is illogical. If things like ghost actually exist they are a part of nature, or the universe, as much as an apple or a dog.

I think it is very human-centric to define what we understand as "normal" and what we don't understand as "paranormal". In reality there is only nature.

Saying that, it is impossible to escape the fact that humans as a species have very over active imaginations. We are very quick to illogically believe in things for other reason than purely investigation and logic.

But again I ask is this relievent?

GuanYin

Wicknight wrote:

Hold on one damn minute there.

My first post was merely to point out that Solas is completely wrong when he links the supersition of a bird flying into a house with the history of animal divination. It doesn't pure and simple.

You evidently don't understand the concept of the forum, haven't read the rules or don't believe they apply to you.

Paranormal isn't like politics or humanities.

Whether you believe in the supersition or not is rather irrelevent to that fact. Either Solas doesn't understand what animal divination means or she doesn't under the history of the supersition.

Well to be fair, birds dying and portents of death go back to both native indian, aztec and asian cultures (bird flu anyone) and at least two of these cultues have long standing associations with animal "spirits". Thats an aside and something we won't get into on feedback.

The fact of the matter is, your argument is conjecture. It devalued (in my opinion) the OP's topic in terms of paranomal discussion and as such you were wrong in this instance.

Secondly it is ridiculous to say that it is possible to discuss belief in the various superstitions without discussing how they developed in modern culture, or the meaning behind the superstitions themselves. It also never says that in the forum chater, in fact discussion is seemingly encourage.

I wrote the forum charter my friend, and I made it clear when I was modding what it meant.

Discussion is encouraged, but only so much so that it stays on the paranormal side of things and away from the skeptics side of things.

That would be like -

"Hi everyone, kinda new at this but wanted to.."
"Do you believe in Jesus?!!"
"Er .. sorry .. who is Jesus?"
"Son of God .. now do you believe in him?"
"Wait .. son of god? Can you explain a bit more.."
"Nope, read the charter! Now, DO YOU BELIEVE IN HIM?"
"Er, no ... is that the correct answer?"
"Sorry WRONG answer! You are banned from Christianity forum"
"Wait, can I at least ask questions?"
"Nope, banned!"

Actually no, its nothing like that.
Noone is asking you to believe in the paranormal. They're just saying that so long as you are posting on the boartds, you respect everyone elses right to believe and don't impose your own views.

How is me explaining how it arose in culture and the meaning behind it thread spoiling?

Please explain that one to me because I really don't get this?

BEcause you're offering a conjectural inference that its not paranormal and that belief in animal superstitions is baseless. Which it may well be, but thats not what paranormal forum is for

solas

you really have a hard on for me wicknight.

this is the last time i'm going to input into this thread, if you don't get it you'll just have to accept as is.

in context

OKay, my great uncle was found dead today, My mam was talking to Nan earlier who had been talking to her sister in law, my GU's sister who told her that a pigeon had hit the window and died the previous day, yesterday, and she told Nan that there would be a death of someone close to us. Following day, her brother is found dead.

Apparently on the night that a nephew, I think, of hers died, a crowe flew right into her house and she said that there would be a death in the family. MY mam distinctly remembers this cuz the chap was her cousin and then it happened so soon after...

I've heard of different animal activity being slightly profetic, birds included but don't know any full things about it.

So basically, do birds have some weird connection to deaths and that or is my great aunt in law just a tad spooky?

(Sorry that was so confusing btw!)

solas wrote:

try and keep it on topic, the original question is in relation to birds, not ladders or pictures falling off walls.

solas wrote:

I wanted to be sure that the topic remain connected to animal divination and not get swayed into the area of walking under ladders. In my opinion there is a vast difference.

solas wrote:

this is the third time I've stated this, this thread is to remain on topic. The topic has sfa to do with walking under ladders or breaking mirror or touching wood, the only link between the two are the terms superstition which have been imposed.

solas

wicknight wrote:

Is that relievent?

You are still claiming I am some how trying to thread spoil the discussion when in fact I was simply explaining the history of the supersition. please point out where I thread spoiled or broke the charter?

And for a point of fact, i think the word "paranormal" is illogical. If things like ghost actually exist they are a part of nature, or the universe, as much as an apple or a dog.

I think it is very human-centric to define what we understand as "normal" and what we don't understand as "paranormal". In reality there is only nature.

Saying that, it is impossible to escape the fact that humans as a species have very over active imaginations. We are very quick to illogically believe in things for other reason than purely investigation and logic.

But again I ask is this relievent?

yes. Now go back and read the charter. Your only interest in the forum is to debunk peoples experiences and it always has been.

GuanYin

Wicknight wrote:

Is that relievent?

You are still claiming I am some how trying to thread spoil the discussion when in fact I was simply explaining the history of the supersition. please point out where I thread spoiled or broke the charter?

And for a point of fact, i think the word "paranormal" is illogical. If things like ghost actually exist they are a part of nature, or the universe, as much as an apple or a dog.

I think it is very human-centric to define what we understand as "normal" and what we don't understand as "paranormal". In reality there is only nature.

Saying that, it is impossible to escape the fact that humans as a species have very over active imaginations. We are very quick to illogically believe in things for other reason than purely investigation and logic.

But again I ask is this relievent?

Yes, because the paranormal board is for people who believe in the paranormal and want to discuss it happily in thier own little bubble.

Effectively you coming in an rationalising is about as welcome as stormfronters paying a visit to a multi-ethnic couples appreciation board, or vice versa.

Zombrex

solas wrote:

any reference to animal divination was an attempt to keep the thread in tack. The thread wasn't about superstition, the thread was about someones experience, and was instantly labelled a thread abut superstiion by luckcat.

it goes like this:

A: "has anyone else had such an experience"?

b: No but its just supersition. Supertition is x, y, z.

thats not what the forum is about. There are exceptions to the rule, if someone comes in and throws out the question "hey what do you think of superstition", then I wouldnt hesitate to allow a discussion to continue.

Did you actually read the thread!!!

"So basically, do birds have some weird connection to deaths and that or is my great aunt in law just a tad spooky?"

It is a quite straight forward question, what is the connection with birds and death with relation to this supersition. How can I call it a supersitition? I didn't the OP did

The 5th post the OP says

"Superstition! That's the word!"

Yeah, clear the OP isn't talking about supersitions .. :rolleyes:

solas

psi wrote:

BEcause you're offering a conjectural inference that its not paranormal and that belief in animal superstitions is baseless. Which it may well be, but thats not what paranormal forum is for

thanks, its early I couldn't find the words.

solas

The 5th post the OP says

"Superstition! That's the word!"

which compelled me to move the thread to a forum which caters for belief. (as oppose to experience)

Zombrex

psi wrote:

Effectively you coming in an rationalising

I am not rationalising anything!! ... I was answering the OPs question.

"do birds have some weird connection to deaths?"

As i said to Solas please point out the part in the thread where I trolled or thread spoiled ....

Zombrex

solas wrote:

at which point the thread was moved.

No the thread wasn't moved for a good few posts after that, and that 5th post was a good few before you said the topic was animal divination and threatened to ban me for not discussing the topic you (not the OP) wanted to talk about.

So either you didn't read any of those post before you threatened to ban me, or you just didn't accept what the OP himself was actually asking.

Stark

What do the Spirituality mods think of the thread's relevance to the Spirituality forum?

solas

wicknight wrote:

No the thread wasn't moved for a good few posts after that, and that 5th post was a good few before you said the topic was animal divination and threatened to ban me for not discussing the topic you (not the OP) wanted to talk about.

its not about what I want to talk about.

I read the OP in its original context, where someone relayed an experience.
At the point in which the OP chose to discuss the topic of superstition I moved it.

lerack wrote:

I heard another bit today that in families or groups of friends and that, that if two girls die, two chaps will die, and vice versa?

its no longer about her deceased grandfather and the experiences with birds leading up to it.

Zombrex

solas wrote:

Your only interest in the forum is to debunk peoples experiences and it always has been.

What the hell are you talking about, I have posted twice in Paranormal before you called me a troll and threatened to ban me.

Please point out the post or quote from "Birds" where I attempt to "debunk" anything.

GuanYin

Wicknight wrote:

I am not rationalising anything!! ... I was answering the OPs question.

"do birds have some weird connection to deaths?"

As i said to Solas please point out the part in the thread where I trolled or thread spoiled ....

Ok, I understand where you're coming from. But you really have to look at the context of WHAT you posted and WHERE you posted it.

If someone posts in a paranormal forum the context of the post is paranomral. While what you posted may be perfectly valid (from my understanding its not, as I said before) it doesn't apply to what was being asked in the context of where it was being asked.

Secondly, you DID still go on about ladders AFTER the mod had said to drop it. Hands up man, you did.

Finally, given your post above, it pretty clear to me that your reasons for posting in paranomral pretty have nothing to do with what the forum is about. Which doesn't exclude you from posting there, but the onus should be on you to respect the concept of the forum and not expect the forum to revolve in what you believe.

stevenmu

Wicknight wrote:

The OP was clearly asking a question about the supersition. The topic is clearly the superstition about birds entering the house.

Exactly, so why do you keep insisting that walking under ladders is on topic ?


Regarding all the stuff re sceptics, that's a completely different issue to this one and is already up for discussion on the paranormal board.

Zombrex

solas wrote:

I read the OP in its original context, where someone relayed an experience.
At the point in which the OP chose to discuss the topic of superstition I moved it.

The OP clarified what he was talking about (supersition) in post 5 (not that it was particular unclear what he was talking about in post 1)

You didn't move this thread out or Paranormal till post 21

In between that you threatened a number of people, myself included, to keep the thread "on topic", despite the fact that you seemed to have no clue as to what the topic actually was.

When I pointed out to you that your understand of the topic seemed to be incorrect you threatened to ban me.

In post 17 you call me a troll and say my "claims" are baseless (I still have no idea what claims that referrs to).

So is re-writting the history of your own forum another paranormal ability that we have to believe in to post there?

solas

wicknight wrote:

What the hell are you talking about, I have posted twice in Paranormal before you called me a troll and threatened to ban me.

since my input on the atheism forum?
yes, that would make sense. I understand your urge to save us from our delusional beliefs in false gods and all that.

You know this is nothing but an attempt to personalise your convictions with me.

Zombrex

stevenmu wrote:

Exactly, so why do you keep insisting that walking under ladders is on topic ?

Because I was talking about the origin of supersititions, and more specifically I was explaining to Solas that her assumption that superstitions such as the ladder one is an "urban ledgend"

This is totally ridiculous. If a person asked a question about Jesus dying for our sins in the Christianity forum would it be thread spoiling to talk about the Jewish tradition of balance through sacrafise, or about other stories in the Bible that dealt with this concept.

The only reason Solas said other superstitions such as walking under a ladder, or breaking a mirror were off topic and out of bounds for discussion was she doesn't believe in them, yet she does believe in connections between animals and for-telling. And we must only discuss things that Solas actually believe in.

Solas wrote:

I wanted to be sure that the topic remain connected to animal divination and not get swayed into the area of walking under ladders. In my opinion there is a vast difference. The latter being something of an urban legend rather than anything based in cultural traditions.

Not only is that post incorrect (the ladder has deep connections with Christianity going back hundreds of years, which I pointed out and was threatened with a banning) but I find it highly ironic that this thread was clamped down because Solas's own beliefs didn't allow discussion of something she personally doesn't believe in.

solas

wicknight wrote:

Solas's own beliefs

at no point during the thread did I convey my beliefs.
I'm out of this discussion. Wicknight you can p*ss and moan all you like, I've had enough of this BS. The paranormal charter is open to evaluation from forum members until Jan 14th and until that time it is a no tolerance zone.
you have been warned.

Zombrex

solas wrote:

since my input on the atheism forum?
yes, that would make sense. I understand your urge to save us from our delusional beliefs in false gods and all that.

You know this is nothing but an attempt to personalise your convictions with me.

This is ridiculous.

I am going to ask you one more time to point out where in the thread I thread spolied, broke the charter, or tried to debunk the OPs personal believes and then I am going to report you to the other mods.

If you are going to pick on other posters who have not broken any charter rules because of a person vendeta you don't deserve to be a mod on Boards.ie

GuanYin

My god wicknight, I was getting suspicious in your debate with bonkey, but man really, you nee dto learn to omprehend that you're not always right.

Wicknight wrote:

The OP clarified what he was talking about (supersition) in post 5 (not that it was particular unclear what he was talking about in post 1)

Reading the post at face value it was about animals/birds being related to deaths.

Which may or may not be a superstition and may or may not have roots as you described.

In a paranomal discussion the relationship is what he thread was about.


in post 5, the poster clarified (if you could call it that) that he wanted to know if it had a basis (in a paranomal context) or was it a superstition.

In between that you threatened a number of people, myself included, to keep the thread "on topic", despite the fact that you seemed to have no clue as to what the topic actually was.

Jeez, dramatic much?

I think that solas wanted to keep the discussion in a paranomal vein. As is the context of the forum, where the OP (whatever they really wanted) posted.

When I pointed out to you that your understand of the topic seemed to be incorrect you threatened to ban me.

Or you decided to ignore the warning on ladders.


Incidently, I think your portrayal of the superstition is wrong, as many cultures (as stevemu pointe out one) outdate your examples in animals are dark omens.

In post 17 you call me a troll and say my "claims" are baseless (I still have no idea what claims that referrs to).

Unfair I'll grant you.

So is re-writting the history of your own forum another paranormal ability that we have to believe in to post there?

Hissy fit that really doesn't do you any favours.

I'd expect it of laisydaisy or the like.

GuanYin

Wicknight wrote:

Not only is that post incorrect (the ladder has deep connections with Christianity going back hundreds of years, which I pointed out and was threatened with a banning) but I find it highly ironic that this thread was clamped down because Solas's own beliefs didn't allow discussion of something she personally doesn't believe in.

If this is the crux of your argument.

Despite solas's mistake about the ladder, it was offtopic and she'd previously asked for on-topic debate, specifically citing the ladder stuff as no-go.

You ignored this. Yes your point was correct, but it was still off-topic and this had already been established as a no-no. If you REALLY felt you needed to make the point, you could have PM'd solas as an FYI.

Your interpretation of the subject matter, in my opinion is wrong (see previous comments on native american/asian cultures - if we really wanna go paranomral, we could even bring the mothman into this), therefore in my opinion, your argument about her not believing its superstition over perceived animal divination is invalid.

But seeing as it was a paranormal debate and not a debate on the origins of the beliefs in portents of death, nor the nature of such portents, neither my argument or yours really applies to the forum or the topic.

solas

wicknight wrote:

If you are going to pick on other posters who have not broken any charter rules because of a person vendeta you don't deserve to be a mod on Boards.ie

as far as I can see your the one with the personal vendetta.
and its the forum members who are evaluating the charter, they get to choose how they want their forum to evolve.

wicknight wrote:

I am going to ask you one more time to point out where in the thread I thread spolied, broke the charter, or tried to debunk the OPs personal believes and then I am going to report you to the other mods.

there are three pages of an explanation, it seems you just don't want to accept them.
I apologise for calling you a troll, but I personally believe you have no more interest in the paranormal (which you have already stated here) than you do with flower arranging. Your only motive is to stir the pot.

Zombrex

solas wrote:

since my input on the atheism forum?

Wow, very mature of you.

So really this has nothing to do with my (2) posts in Paranormal, this is because you are pissed over something in Atheism

Well lets see what did I do to you in Atheism .. lets see ... ummm

Ah yes, I stuck up for you when everyone else was calling a troll and after you had broken the Atheism charter for calling someone a "muppet"

Wicknight wrote:

Ok ok, lets give Solas the benefit of the doubt and assume he just wanted to spark discussion on this specific topic of Prof Flew, that he did not post the original article in some form of "ha ha don't you guys feel stupid now" tact.

So lets discuss the article, instead of the issue of if atheists are supposed to have a crisis of faith (or lack of faith) by this guy changing his views (clearly they don't).

Yes, I can certainly see why that would piss you off so much, I mean no one likes others on Boards.ie to try and help them out ... I can see why I am in fact a troll and everything i say is baseless.

:rolleyes:

solas

I did not convey my beliefs during the thread either, but I would argue that someones experience is invalid, illogical unreasonable or based in ignorance, (as a definition of superstition) and is why I wanted the thread to remain on topic, which was about the relationship between the posters recent experience on her great uncles death.

wicknight wrote:

]Ah yes, I stuck up for you when everyone else was calling a troll and after you had broken the Atheism charter for calling someone a "muppet"

ffs...you stuck up for me :rolleyes:
the muppet who also comes to the paranormal forum to voice his cirticisms and who had come close to a ban the previous week for his own actions there.
Its like dealing with a stormfront invasion.

and such actions which have promoted a zero tolerance zone.