Evidence that Wicknight can be a tit. Yes I know, its hard to believe

Zombrex

solas wrote:

because since the thread has been moved he has had no input on the discussion

solas wrote:

I have no interest in reading it, but surely you should be satisfied you had the oppertunity to continue the discussion.

as far as I can see, the thread ended in your favour and is now dormant. I think you should be content.

I think you should stop spouting unfounded bullsh*t about someone else and then contradicting yourself two posts down.

solas

wicknight wrote:

Anytime you want to post where in the Paranormal forum I attacked another poster, or the Paranormal forum, or the concept of paranormal existance, Solas, please go right a head

your attack is your defense and is a result of your dismissal of the PF in its own right.

Zombrex

solas wrote:

I havent the motivation to continue this discussion. They are **** stirrers and trolls. They will firmly tell you they have no belief in the paranormal.

If you do not post where I trolled the Paranormal forum I will report you for abusing your position as a moderator.

Zombrex

solas wrote:

your attack is your defense and is a result of your dismissal of the PF in its own right.

So basically, what you are saying is that I have never troll or attacked the Paranormal forum and you are full of sh*t when you claimed, repeatably, that I did?

Hobart

solas wrote:

I have no interest in reading it, but surely you should be satisfied you had the oppertunity to continue the discussion.

So this does not tie in with "he is more interested in trolling the paranormal because since the thread has been moved he has had no input on the discussion", which, as it turns out, is a blatent untruth. I suppose ignorance has it's part to play aswell. But seriously, if you are going to state something as fact have the bloddy cop on to check out that what you are saying, bears some semblence of what is actually happening.

as far as I can see, the thread ended in your favour and is now dormant. I think you should be content.

You have got to be joking me here. This is what you have to say on the matter? DO you honestly think that WK actions were borne out of some need to come out on top? He/She has displayed none of those traits to me, far from it in fact. He seemed to try to justify his position in a non-confrontational manner AFAICS.

GuanYin

Hobart wrote:

However I do remember you once having a go at the mod of christianity for something similar in the past. I had forgotten about your ability to flip flop!

I was waiting for a post like this, so I prepared an answer in advance

The difference here, was that the paranormal forum defines (or at leats tries to define) quite clearly the boundries set in paranormal discussion - insofar as it insists that anyones belief in paranormal occurances take preference over the sensibilities of those who would like to argue otherwise.

In the christianity issue (which wasn't actually about anything I myself posted on Christianity I might add) I objected to the mod defining what christianity was and by inference dictating what everyone had to believe to be a christian. I also had lobbied for a spirituality forum in order to discuss "alternative" chirstianity as at the time it was either their version of christianity or none at all. This isn't the case here where ISS operates.

As far as this debate goes, wicknight admits he purposely ignored the mods guideline and that pretty much it. He wasn't banned, the thread was moved, he should get over it.

Wicknight, you have plenty of forums you can discuss the issue you have highlighted, not least ISS. Apart from a perverse oneupmanship or the "I must be the winner" factor, why would you want to turn a forum from what it is defined for to something where you can go run off or intimidate the paranormal posters it was intended for.

I'm not saying you're trolling there, I maintain that thats out of order, but what your suggesting is just another mainstream ISS forum. If paranormal needs to be militant to maintain is concept, then so be it, its no loss to anyone as the medium for those who want to discuss issues in the other manner exists.

We had this issue many moons ago when the paranormal forum was conceived and at the time many said they didn't feel comfortable posting there if they were gonna be hopped or ridiculed.

solas

I resign. I'm sure somebody else will have the energy to resolve the issue.

Shabadu

solas wrote:

I havent the motivation to continue this discussion. They are **** stirrers and trolls. They will firmly tell you they have no belief in the paranormal.

Seeing as troll is a mythical beast, I'm pretty sure they would believe in the Paranormal if they were.

Once again, why are you allowed personally abuse people but can't take any yourself? I suggest asking for a private paranormal forum for all the 'true believers' and leaving the public one for those that believe in debate and diversity.

Hobart

psi wrote:

I was waiting for a post like this, so I prepared an answer in advance

Sorry it took so long so

The difference here, was that the paranormal forum defines (or at leats tries to define) quite clearly the boundries set in paranormal discussion - insofar as it insists that anyones belief in paranormal occurances take preference over the sensibilities of those who would like to argue otherwise.

In the christianity issue (which wasn't actually about anything I myself posted on Christianity I might add) I objected to the mod defining what christianity was and by inference dictating what everyone had to believe to be a christian. I also had lobbied for a spirituality forum in order to discuss "alternative" chirstianity as at the time it was either their version of christianity or none at all. This isn't the case here where ISS operates.

I appreciate that, and I honestly do understand why such a restriction would be believed to be necessary, however restrictive it might appear and restrictive to the "normal" debating styles. I, however, do understand that such a ban on these type debunking postings are banned, as pranormal issues could quite easily end in a linkage/prove it type flame fest, which would completely miss the whole point of the forum.

My "issue", if you want to call it, that is not about the restrictions imposed on the board. More the issue that a mod can call another persons opinion baseless. No matter what way you paint it psi, it is a personall attack on somebodies opinion. And that opinion could be on the believe of or in a deity or the believe that birds do not commit hare kiri(sp) because somebodies uncle is about to die. It's the principal, not the detail tbh.

Hobart

solas wrote:

I resign. I'm sure somebody else will have the energy to resolve the issue.

Rattle out of the pram TBH. No need for you to resign at all.

Zombrex

psi wrote:

As far as this debate goes, wicknight admits he purposely ignored the mods guideline and that pretty much it.

It wasn't a guideline, Solas said this is not to be discussed or even mentioned in relation to this because she believes in this (animal omens) and she don't believe in that (walking under ladders).

The only logic behind that that I can see is that Solas was trying to stop a phenomon she believes in being associated with superstitions she doesn't accept as valid. All of this is her own person opinion.

It is not the job or right of a mod to refuse to allow discussion of something that is clearly on topic (what ever Solas says supersitions was the topic, as confirmed by further posts of the OP) but which the mod doesn't want contaminating her belief in something else.

I would point out that just because Solas doesn't put much weight in "urban myths" such as not walking under ladders, refusing to allow even mention of it seems to go against everything she claims to stand for in modding Paranormal forum.

psi wrote:

He wasn't banned, the thread was moved, he should get over it.

Well it was more the attacks and person insults I objected to. Those unfortunately have continued.

psi wrote:

why would you want to turn a forum from what it is defined for to something where you can go run off or intimidate the paranormal posters

Jesus Psi have you actually read the posts? You are believing Solas's completely unfounded bullsh*t about me.

I have never "run off" or attempted to intimidate anyone in the discussion. In fact I find the discussion very interesting and was quite happy to share my knowledge of it since people seemed quite interested in it.

Saying I should just forget about it when it is clearly mis-shaping other people opinions of me (including your own) and giving me a reputation for someone who is only interested in disrupting discussion (ie a Troll), is rather annoying TBH.

psi wrote:

but what your suggesting is just another mainstream ISS forum.

I don't recall suggesting anything ... ?

psi wrote:

We had this issue many moons ago when the paranormal forum was conceived and at the time many said they didn't feel comfortable posting there if they were gonna be hopped or ridiculed.

Well then go after people who ridicule other posters, or what they post.

I think you will find nearly all other forums have rules against person insults and attack the post not the posters. This isn't a new alien concept.

GuanYin

Hobart wrote:

Sorry it took so long so

Ah its a busy time of year, no worries!

My "issue", if you want to call it, that is not about the restrictions imposed on the board. More the issue that a mod can call another persons opinion baseless. No matter what way you paint it psi, it is a personall attack on somebodies opinion. And that opinion could be on the believe of or in a deity or the believe that birds do not commit hare kiri(sp) because somebodies uncle is about to die. It's the principal, not the detail tbh.

I don't *think* I ever painted it in that way at all. In fact, I stated quite plainly that calling wicknight a troll was out of order. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Hobbes

Wicknight wrote:

...

Apart from the Troll portion (which I haven't read up on enough to form an opinion) I don't see the issue.

Your thread got moved, you could still discuss on it. I also checked and there was a redirect left in the paranormal forum. That means if anyone wanted to talk about it in relation to the paranormal was still able to do so.

GuanYin

Wicknight wrote:

It wasn't a guideline, Solas said this is not to be discussed or even mentioned in relation to this because she believes in this (animal omens) and she don't believe in that (walking under ladders).

Thats your perception there.

I took it to mean she believed this incident had more to do with animal omens that superstitions like walking under ladders and wanted to keep them separate - if only because human psyche apart they are unrelated - one being "as old as man himself" the other only managing to be as old as ladders. As such, I'd agree with her on that point.

That she made a mistake on the origin of the superstitions and you wanted to be pedantic about it is your doing. You take responsibility for your own posts.

The only logic behind that that I can see is that Solas was trying to stop a phenomon she believes in being associated with superstitions she doesn't accept as valid. All of this is her own person opinion.

And yours was yours. However, She's the mod, you're not. She wanted to keep it to a certain topic, you didn't and she asked not to post on a certain area, you ignored it.

What exactly do you not get?

It is not the job or right of a mod to refuse to allow discussion of something that is clearly on topic (what ever Solas says supersitions was the topic, as confirmed by further posts of the OP) but which the mod doesn't want contaminating her belief in something else.

Round and round and round you go......

I would point out that just because Solas doesn't put much weight in "urban myths" such as not walking under ladders, refusing to allow even mention of it seems to go against everything she claims to stand for in modding Paranormal forum.

It was off topic.

Well it was more the attacks and person insults I objected to. Those unfortunately have continued.

Funny, your original post here doesn't indicate that, nor do the countless pages of mindless chatter.

If thats the case, a PM would have done the trick, then you could have posted about an unfounded personal attack from a mod.

Instead you posted a demand to have a thread moved back and how you were right and she was wrong.

You see, NOTHING about your actions makes you look like your just trying to right your wrong here. You have been around long enoug to know how things work here.

If you want to take an issue, you PM the mod, no joy, start a thread. You went straight to witch-hunt mode. And remember, before you deny it, I'm a world expert in the field

Jesus Psi have you actually read the posts? You are believing Solas's completely unfounded bullsh*t about me.

Nope, I'm just saying, why didn't you PM, then post about the insult.

Your original topic was "Move Thread Back to Paranormal". If you feel so wronged, why didn't you post "PErsonally insulted by moderator"???

I have never "run off" or attempted to intimidate anyone in the discussion. In fact I find the discussion very interesting and was quite happy to share my knowledge of it since people seemed quite interested in it.

No, I meant skeptics posting in paranormal, the plural "you".

Saying I should just forget about it when it is clearly mis-shaping other people opinions of me (including your own)

Your posting and actions are doing that tbh.

and giving me a reputation for someone who is only interested in disrupting discussion (ie a Troll), is rather annoying TBH.

I think, more than once, I said you weren't atroll and that calling you one was out of order.

I don't recall suggesting anything ... ?

In paranormal. Which echoes some of your sentiments here.

Well then go after people who ridicule other posters, or what they post.

I think you will find nearly all other forums have rules against person insults and attack the post not the posters. This isn't a new alien concept.

But in paranormal they have to defend the beliefs aswell.

Zombrex

Hobbes wrote:

Apart from the Troll portion (which I haven't read up on enough to form an opinion) I don't see the issue.

Your thread got moved, you could still discuss on it. I also checked and there was a redirect left in the paranormal forum. That means if anyone wanted to talk about it in relation to the paranormal was still able to do so.

Well my main issue I had was that I was insulted and threatened with a banning. I have never seen a mod act like that before.

The side issue is that it is nothing to do with Spirituality, and should not have been moved. The fact that it was moved by a mod who clearly has no interest in allowing the topic to be discussed in her forum for her own person reasons pissed me off a bit.

But to me it wasn't that big an issue, I am geniuinly surprise that it has turned into such a big deal for people. I just expected someone to either give a reason why it was in Spirituality, or to do "yeah your right"

But I think I have wandered into a bit of a sh*t storm around the Paranormal forum going on a the moment. There certainly seem to be a lot of people who have taken issue with the handling of the forum, and a particular mod in general (who shall remain nameless).

Hobbes

psi wrote:

But in paranormal they have to defend the beliefs aswell.

I'm not getting into the fighting of the rest of your post but I believe this comment you mentioned you are incorrect.

Paranormal forum they generally do not have to defend thier beliefs (and I know because posted something which got nuked for the same reason). If you want to question paranormal beliefs the correct place to go is to Skeptics.

The thread is cross linked so discussing which forum it should go in is moot imho.

Nevyn

The topic of the thread was not superstisions in general and if they are claptrap or coincidences.
The thread was not started so that the topic it could be toren apart and said to be unlogical.
The topic of the thread was to do with the belief that birds are seen at times as signs and portents of the death of a family memeber, it is a belief of some people irregardless of what thier religion is.
The topic was raised for dicussion to see if anyone else knew of this and to share the experience to see if anyone else has this belief in thier family,
to to have it debunked esp as it was not in the ISS forum.

If you dont like what you read in the paranormal forum or how topics are treated there then dont read it.
Go raise the issues in ISS and stop badgering and lecturing people who do post there.

I did suggest that the thread be moved to Spirituality so that it could be discussed in the context of this is what some people believe.
The rabis attcking people and what they believe is not allowed in Spiritualtiy and this is what is anoying those that want to post about how it is all claptrap and unenlightened supersition.

GuanYin

Hobbes wrote:

I'm not getting into the fighting of the rest of your post but I believe this comment you mentioned you are incorrect.

Paranormal forum they generally do not have to defend thier beliefs (and I know because posted something which got nuked for the same reason). If you want to question paranormal beliefs the correct place to go is to Skeptics.

The thread is cross linked so discussing which forum it should go in is moot imho.

I think you're missing what I meant.

I meant that someone who posts that the believe in the tooth fairy usually ends up with 20 follow up posts asking them to account for the 1.2 million teeth collected every month. Or at least would if the forum wasn't set up the way it is.

The point of the forum is that of an outlet for those who *want* to believe in tooth fairies and discuss tooth fairy related things.

Hobbes

Wicknight wrote:

But I think I have wandered into a bit of a sh*t storm around the Paranormal forum going on a the moment. There certainly seem to be a lot of people who have taken issue with the handling of the forum, and a particular mod in general (who shall remain nameless).

If you have an issue with a moderator in particular you should generally take it up with the admins and not post expecting a witch hunt (granted your thread move is on topic for here).

Moderators are the rules of the forum, even if the charter says otherwise. Charter is a general guideline. So yes there are exceptions that moderators can and do take.

Moderators have been removed before for actions so there is no favoritism between mods + admins. But airing the laundry in public rarely helps.

Hobbes

psi wrote:

The point of the forum is that of an outlet for those who *want* to believe in tooth fairies and discuss tooth fairy related things.

Would that not go in the tooth fairy forum? :v:

Thanx 4 The Fish

Well I am not too sure about this. I think that if solas does follow through on her offer of resignation then we will be losing a good mod. I have an interest in and read the paranormal thread quite often and was in agreement with Solas that the forum may need changing. From my observations in reading through the forum I think that Solas keeps the board alive by ensuring that people can share paranormal events and discuss the paranormal in a comfortable environment. There is a sceptics forum for people to be skeptical and perhaps the skeptics could take threads from paranormal and deconstruct if they so choose in there but paranormal is not the place.

GuanYin

Hobbes wrote:

Would that not go in the tooth fairy forum? :v:

Do we have one?:eek:

Zombrex

psi wrote:

But in paranormal they have to defend the beliefs aswell.

Not from me Psi, not from me.

Both yourself and Solas seem to have serious issues with what other people have done in the past in Paranormal and are letting this effect your dealings and perceptions of new geniune posters to the forum, such as myself.

You say I should not have started this thread, that I should have PMed Solas personally (maybe to discuss her insults), but really I think this thread has helped high light that a lot of people have been taking issue with the closed natured (to the point of rude) hostile running of the forum.

I am afraid that if the entire forum is founded on the basis of suspect everyone and everything as being a threat or an insult before they have even posted, it is no wonder a load of people are pissed off with the running of the forum and the arrogence of the mods.

I suggest it becomes a closed forum since very few people seem actually welcome to post there. Then you might have your utopian forum where no one can be offended and everyone views and thoughts reflect the same opinion.

Shame really I was just starting to think it was a interesting forum

GuanYin

Wicknight wrote:

Well my main issue I had was that I was insulted and threatened with a banning. .

Funny then that this should merit 2 lines (maybe three) of mention in your rathe rlong first post which was mainly a continuation of your argument with solas about who was right or wrong.

Of course, if you say so, thats cool, but you sure went a very strange way about showing it.

GuanYin

Wicknight wrote:

Not from me Psi, not from me.

Both yourself and Solas seem to have serious issues with what other people have done in the past in Paranormal and are letting this effect your dealings and perceptions of new geniune posters to the forum, such as myself.

But if you don't believe in the paranormal and have poste dhere describing your issue with the mere term.. what and how can you be a genuine poster to the forum? Seeing as any post you make is biased by your underlying lack of repect for the subject.

You say I should not have started this thread, that I should have PMed Solas personally (maybe to discuss her insults), but really I think this thread has helped high light that a lot of people have been taking issue with the closed natured (to the point of rude) hostile running of the forum.

Don't see that at all. Can you show me all the poster who have issue. I can see two so far in You and shabadu who have a problem.

Can you name the others?

incidently, are you now going back on your previous assertion that the problem you have is the insult. Because it looks like you have. If all you had a real problem with wa sthe insult then the PM was fine and nothing else neede dto be highlighted.

If you wanted to stir ****, in terms of numbered supporters, you got a piss poor response.

I am afraid that if the entire forum is founded on the basis of suspect everyone and everything as being a threat or an insult before they have even posted, it is no wonder a load of people are pissed off with the running of the forum and the arrogence of the mods.

Don't see that myself.

I suggest it becomes a closed forum since very few people seem actually welcome to post there. Then you might have your utopian forum where no one can be offended and everyone views and thoughts reflect the same opinion.

Here is another idea. Seeing as you like the area, but only in the way you want to post, why not just not post there, and post in ISS and then everyone goes away happy?

Zillah

psi wrote:

Can you name the others?

Count me in. Frankly I don't have time to get deeply involved in this trainwreck, but count this as vote of support for Wickknight, Solas has allowed recent stresses to cloud her judgement.

The main problem with all of this is that there are two camps as to the purpose of the paranormal forum, not its moderatorship.

I and others would like a paranormal forum that exists for the purposes of investigating and expanding our understanding of the paranormal, ruling out what we can and being fascinated by what we can't.

Others again would like a paranormal forum where people can meet up and discuss whatever paranormal stuff that they like in whatever manner they like.

The problem with the second one is that anyone can arrive and start listing the goblins that live in their garden and their kitchen research that proves telekenesis exists. And no one is allowed to question them.

The worst part is that Solas doesn't even enforce that last rule consistently, only when she uses it to defend something she personally agrees with. Or at least that has been my observation.

Zillah

I have it!

We need a new forum. "Parapsychology": the scientific investigation of the paranormal. That way the paranormal forum could have a strict "no questioning beliefs" policy, and the parapsychology forum could have a "no bull" policy.

That way people who would like to solve their experiences and want to hear theories could go to parapsychology, while those who simply want to share and discuss in a completely friendly atmosphere could go to paranormal.

Now that I think of it, having a "Parapsychology" subforum in paranormal would be great!

EDIT: And in Solas' defence, there have been a few trolls on paranormal lately. Of the "you're all stupid and crazy, there's no such thing as ghosts" variety. I feel her failing is seeing the fundamental difference between people like these and genuine sceptics.

stevenmu

Wicknight wrote:

Well my main issue I had was that I was insulted and threatened with a banning. I have never seen a mod act like that before.

A thread was moving off topic and the mod asked people to keep it on topic, you then came along and not only made a post that was deliberatly off topic (the part about the history of bird related superstition was on topic, other parts were not), but on top of that you tried to dictate to the mod what the topic actually is. You were called a troll and threatened with a banning. If you've never seen a mod act like that before, having been here since 2001 and with 3000+ posts then you really aren't paying any attention.

Wicknight wrote:

The fact that it was moved by a mod who clearly has no interest in allowing the topic to be discussed in her forum for her own person reasons pissed me off a bit.

Wicknight wrote:

The only logic behind that that I can see is that Solas was trying to stop a phenomon she believes in being associated with superstitions she doesn't accept as valid. All of this is her own person opinion.

The topic was a particular superstition, that's blatantly obvious if you actually read the thread and pay attention. Solas was trying to stop the thread turning into a general debunking of superstition, again if you read the thread and pay attention to it, this is also blatantly obvious.

Solas would never use her position to push her own beliefs, she actually stepped down as mod of the Spirituality forum in case people would take her opinions more seriously because she was a mod. I've discussed many things with solas and she's always very carefull, sometimes ridiculously so, to not impose her beliefs on anyone.

Wicknight wrote:

There certainly seem to be a lot of people who have taken issue with the handling of the forum, and a particular mod in general (who shall remain nameless).

Again, if you read the forum and paid attention, you'd realise that most of us are very happy with Solas' modding of the forum.

edit: Altough as Zillah pointed out, there is some disagreement on what the paranormal forum should cater for, which isn't in any way a reflection of the moderator. In fact Solas has started a thread looking for opinions on how/if the charter and forum should be changed, which is an example of excellent moderating and a good counter-example to any claims that she uses her position to push her views.

zod

stevenmu wrote:

Again, if you read the forum and paid attention, you'd realise that most of us are very happy with Solas' modding of the forum.

I disagree, I think shes rude, aggressive and deserves to be stripped of her mod rights.

maybe somebody could create a poll?

DeVore

a poll??

*blinks*


Ok, the results of your poll are back and when we surveyed the population who actually HAVE a vote, here's the results:

Those who believe that this is a GIANT storm in a teacup that could have been handled better by ALL sides: 1 vote.

Absentions: 4


Ok, what SHOULD have happened here is that the thread should have been moved (the mod believes its in the wrong place and I can *kinda* see his/her point), but there is an option to move it leaving a link to where it has gone. In that way, anyone who MIGHT be interested in it in the Paranormal board would follow the link to the Spirituality board (where I have to say, I think its further off topic myself but I can't think of a good place for it on boards).

I'm going to make that happen. As for moderation ability, I've not had problems before with Solas (who I have never heard of before, which is another one of those milestones I've been waiting for, mods I've never seen before ). Also Talliesin is an S-Mod and very active in that area, if there was a problem he'd have given me a heads up.

Much of this sounds like personality clashing and crankiness on both sides and frankly I don't have a lot of time to waste these days.

DeV.