McCann objects against Brewery Complex

merlante

I hope the meeting goes well. I hope the normal people cop the **** on and stop extremists running the city in to the ground.

col o

I was at the meeting tonight and I was the only one objecting to the objectors.However to be fair it was of a different format to the last meeting.There was not really an opertunity for submissions,so there may have been people of my mind.They were organising a commitee and nominating each other for who will do what etc.

They had some Doctor down from Dublin who was involved in an group who was opposed to the development in Dun Laoighre Baths which they succeded in preventing.However that issue differed in that the Baths were public property.He gave a twenty minute sppech on planning a campaign and what kind of obstacles they would meet.He was happy to give advice but when he was asked to get involved in the Waterford issue he declined.There was the usual language along the lines of Fat Cats like in the last meeting.I made some statements after his speech opposing the general view and he climbed back in his shell a bit.I don't think he was expecting someone who wasn't suppporting the group.

There was two Sinn Fein councillers there.Joe Kelly and David Cullinane.Cullinane didn't seem too interested to be honest.Either did Joe Kelly.They basically explained the planning procedure to everyone and that was the extent of it.There was a minor heated exchange between me and this elder woman.I noticed David Cullinane was amused by this.McCann calmed down things before it came to blows:D This started because some Belgian guy asked me why I was so interested in this af I was living in Dublin.The old lady thought he was saying I had no business getting involved.He apologised later.

The two SF councillers said most of City Hall were infavour of the development.I think the general feeling is the developers have at least two other options up there sleeve if this one gets knocked back.In other words they are only testing the water.I would tend to agree because the plans I saw looked huge.

I think they are more interested in preserving ancient walls and stuff like that.They are not opposed in principle to developing the area.I think they would prefer incorporating the existing structures.I think McCann has in mind an avenue of high Quality shops going from Michael St up to the tower at the top of castle street.More like a large version of Powerscourt in Dublin.To be honest I think this is a more realistic vision from what I heard at the meeting.Apparently there is a hugh amount of old walls and buildings.There would be a hugh amount of resistance from Duchas,An Teagasc and N Bord Pleanala if they tried to destroy these.

One thing is for certain though some form of development will go ahead and I think they privately coced that.They will just try and influence it as much as possible

col o

Cabaal wrote:

I was up in the Cineworld Cinema in Parnell St on Saturday night, very impressed with the choice of films and the layout of the place.
I'd prefer have one good cinema like it in Waterford then two ****e one's (if their run anything like the current one)

This is a cool cinema.Screen 17 is excellent if you happen to be up there again and there is a film you like showing on this screen.It is like a small theater.

I would prefer a large cinema like this plus two small one.One of the small ones being an arthouse cinema.The IFI in Dublin is a great example.My Girlfriend likes to go here.She is Ukranian and prefers the foreign and arthouse movies.I always protest because it never appeals to me.However when I go I am seldom disappointed.This type of cinema would appeal to McCann's vision I would think there is one in Garter Lane once a week.

merlante

col o wrote:

This is a cool cinema.Screen 17 is excellent if you happen to be up there again and there is a film you like showing on this screen.It is like a small theater.

I would prefer a large cinema like this plus two small one.One of the small ones being an arthouse cinema.The IFI in Dublin is a great example.My Girlfriend likes to go here.She is Ukranian and prefers the foreign and arthouse movies.I always protest because it never appeals to me.However when I go I am seldom disappointed.This type of cinema would appeal to McCann's vision I would think there is one in Garter Lane once a week.

I think all this will come to Waterford sooner or later. Anyone who has been away and have gotten used to this will want it back home.

merlante

col o wrote:

I was at the meeting tonight and I was the only one objecting to the objectors.However to be fair it was of a different format to the last meeting.There was not really an opertunity for submissions,so there may have been people of my mind.They were organising a commitee and nominating each other for who will do what etc.

They had some Doctor down from Dublin who was involved in an group who was opposed to the development in Dun Laoighre Baths which they succeded in preventing.However that issue differed in that the Baths were public property.He gave a twenty minute sppech on planning a campaign and what kind of obstacles they would meet.He was happy to give advice but when he was asked to get involved in the Waterford issue he declined.There was the usual language along the lines of Fat Cats like in the last meeting.I made some statements after his speech opposing the general view and he climbed back in his shell a bit.I don't think he was expecting someone who wasn't suppporting the group.

There was two Sinn Fein councillers there.Joe Kelly and David Cullinane.Cullinane didn't seem too interested to be honest.Either did Joe Kelly.They basically explained the planning procedure to everyone and that was the extent of it.There was a minor heated exchange between me and this elder woman.I noticed David Cullinane was amused by this.McCann calmed down things before it came to blows:D This started because some Belgian guy asked me why I was so interested in this af I was living in Dublin.The old lady thought he was saying I had no business getting involved.He apologised later.

The two SF councillers said most of City Hall were infavour of the development.I think the general feeling is the developers have at least two other options up there sleeve if this one gets knocked back.In other words they are only testing the water.I would tend to agree because the plans I saw looked huge.

I think they are more interested in preserving ancient walls and stuff like that.They are not opposed in principle to developing the area.I think they would prefer incorporating the existing structures.I think McCann has in mind an avenue of high Quality shops going from Michael St up to the tower at the top of castle street.More like a large version of Powerscourt in Dublin.To be honest I think this is a more realistic vision from what I heard at the meeting.Apparently there is a hugh amount of old walls and buildings.There would be a hugh amount of resistance from Duchas,An Teagasc and N Bord Pleanala if they tried to destroy these.

One thing is for certain though some form of development will go ahead and I think they privately coced that.They will just try and influence it as much as possible

What buildings exactly are historically interesting? Are they on the Newgate St. end?

All I'm worried about is that this is held up indefinitely, or that a floor is taken off, and M&S/Debenhams/HMV/Waterstones decide not to bother...

col o

I think there is remains of an old leper hospital there and a cemetry.If you walk along Stephen St. coming from Patrick St. and past the De La Salle centre there is a tall wall.On this wall there is a plaque refering to the Hospital.There is also a large piece of the old city wall there.I was aware of this myself before McCann started going on about it.I think you can see some of it it.There is a small part visible between the De la salle centre and the houses on Alexander St.

There is a point to note here.When City Square was proposed.They started the project when I was 12.There was a major find there in the form of old viking houses and bodiesThere wasn't much security around it at the time.The whole of peter St and Lady Lane was full of four and five storey derilict buildings.A friend and myself used to get up to mischief around here.By the time city square opened up I was 18.However I think the recession intensified and this was the major factor.This also caused City Square to be much smaller than what resulted.

But regardless of McCann and the viking stuff apparently the Irish Georgian society has voiced there opposition to the destruction of the buildings on Michael St and as I said an Teagasc and Duchas has raised concerns.

I would not get too pissed off.I think there will be a shopping centre there and you will probably have a HMV or a Waterstones.It will be more of a large powerscourt than an Ilac centre.I think this would be the only hope.I think this would be preferable to another city square full of Golden Discs and Burger Kings.I don't fancy the chances of there being a large Car Park though.This could potebtially affect the foudation of the City walls and nearby towers.

Apparently one of the towers in Castle St has had 4.5 million Euros spent preserving it and other works.It has some unique properties that make it important in comparison th the other towers.I drove down Browns lane last night and noticed there seems to be some working along the large wall that is joined to the watchtower.

As I said in my last post.The initial propositions were only the opening shots.I would guess the developers know they havn't a hope in Hell of being approved.They will have a plan B and maybe C which will in effect be the real plan.By this stage steam may have gone out of the opposition in other words So far we have just seen tactics.

merlante

Hmm... but there is no city wall anywhere near the De La Salle Centre, as fair as I can see:


Looking at this map, it is obvious that not only is the Brewery complex not touching any city wall (since afaik, it is between Michael St., Stephen St. & New Street) but it is the only block of land that size that actually doesn't overlap the city walls within the city centre...

Where is the cemetery, etc.? Does it really come that close to Castle st.?

merlante

merlante wrote:

Hmm... but there is no city wall anywhere near the De La Salle Centre, as fair as I can see: Looking at this map, it is obvious that not only is the Brewery complex not touching any city wall (since afaik, it is between Michael St., Stephen St. & New Street) but it is the only block of land that size that actually doesn't overlap the city walls within the city centre... Where is the cemetery, etc.? Does it really come that close to Castle st.?

Stupid Tripod... Image is here: http://members.tripod.com/waterfordhistory/City_walls.jpg
Link doesn't seem to work, but a google image search find it...

trishw78

there is a wall in Stephen Street Della Salle, If you go in the gate and turn right

col o

The problem is in Waterford and in particular the Brewery site is that parts of the walls were just integrated into the buildings that were laid down in the 19th century.I think you can see some of it if you walk from Stephen St around the corner to Alexander St.Between the first house of the terrace on Alexander St. and De la salle centre corner structure.There is a wall joining the house to the centre.If you look over this I think you can see a tiny portion of the wall.However I am describing this from memory and I could be way off the mark.
I know for certain though you can see part of the old leper hospital over the wall were the plaque is.Like a chimney stack or something.There is also a cemetery here .

I think there is a hell of a lot of Viking stuff here and will probably be just like the site on City Square (maybe).The whole site is between the boundary of the old walls.

At this stage you will probably have heard the realigned route of the By-pass is facing problems due to environmental issues and other potential archaeological finds.I think though they can build the Bridge and link it up with the ring road and Grannagh and out to Sliverue.

This **** seems to never end.

merlante

trishw78 wrote:

there is a wall in Stephen Street Della Salle, If you go in the gate and turn right

The wall goes through Stephen st. school. That is well up patrick st. and as far away from the Brewery that you can get as far as I can see.

merlante

col o wrote:

The problem is in Waterford and in particular the Brewery site is that parts of the walls were just integrated into the buildings that were laid down in the 19th century.I think you can see some of it if you walk from Stephen St around the corner to Alexander St.Between the first house of the terrace on Alexander St. and De la salle centre corner structure.There is a wall joining the house to the centre.If you look over this I think you can see a tiny portion of the wall.However I am describing this from memory and I could be way off the mark.
I know for certain though you can see part of the old leper hospital over the wall were the plaque is.Like a chimney stack or something.There is also a cemetery here .

I think there is a hell of a lot of Viking stuff here and will probably be just like the site on City Square (maybe).The whole site is between the boundary of the old walls.

At this stage you will probably have heard the realigned route of the By-pass is facing problems due to environmental issues and other potential archaeological finds.I think though they can build the Bridge and link it up with the ring road and Grannagh and out to Sliverue.

This **** seems to never end.

Ah for **** sake, regarding the bypass. I swear if that thing is delayed any more, I am going to hunt down the ones responsible! :mad:

As for the Brewery impacting on the city wall. This is an image that I found on the web and modified:



The city walls are clearly outlined.

The blue region 1, covers the area that (I think) the main Brewery complex will be covering. The region 2, covers the area (I think) that they plan to build a hotel on -- where the old WIT building is/was.

I don't see how there could be any city wall in region 1?

I'm not sure what sort of impact that the region 2 development would have on the wall. I don't know how close it gets. I can't find an accurate ground plan online.

meldrew

Theres a great letter in this weeks papers from a local inner city resident and he is very critical towards McCann and his cronies .
People are finally starting to stand up to him and are are beginning to realise the damage he is doing to our city .
The Phoenix column in the News and star is also keeping up the pressure on him as well , he is comparing what is happening now to what happened thirty years ago when Roches were'nt allowed build here and went to Galway instead and started the boom in that town as it was then .

kano476

are they building right down on to the apple market?

merlante

meldrew wrote:

Theres a great letter in this weeks papers from a local inner city resident and he is very critical towards McCann and his cronies .
People are finally starting to stand up to him and are are beginning to realise the damage he is doing to our city .
The Phoenix column in the News and star is also keeping up the pressure on him as well , he is comparing what is happening now to what happened thirty years ago when Roches were'nt allowed build here and went to Galway instead and started the boom in that town as it was then .

Quite right. That story about Roches makes my blood boil whenever I hear it! The Phoenix pinpoints it as practically the moment when Waterford fell behind Galway. He could be right.

My parents also reckon that Marks & Spencers tried to get in there in the 70's! :mad:

You'd think this bloody, union-ridden, nay-saying, anti-authoritarian town would have ****ing learned by now! :mad:

merlante

kano476 wrote:

are they building right down on to the apple market?

No just my bad drawing. They're not going any further than Michael St. In fact, afaik, not all the buildings on Michael St. are going. Not sure which ones.

col o

From what I could see of the the plans of the centre only on or two of the Buildings on Michael St. are to be removed if any.I was under the impression the main entrance would be where the stonemasons are.It was very hard to tell from studying the plan for 20 minutes.

The Phoenix column put forward a concept of a "Boulevard" of Sorts going from the AIB at the corner of Lady Lane/Michael St.up to the French Tower on the top of Castle street.This guy seemed concerned that the Browns Lane areas would end up like the Lady Lane side of City Square i.e large Blank walls.

McCann spoke to me of a similar idea.He was talking about a place in Galway where they converted some old structures.I think he said into a Shopping centre.

That's the thing about this fiasco.There are probable people on both sides of the arguement with more in Common than they think.An acceptable compromise could be reached.Unless they start marching about it.

THE FOLLOWING IS AN ARTICLE BY THE IRISH TIMES


Tourists say Ireland not unique enough



Ireland's growing cosmopolitanism is turning off some holidaymakers who think our cities are becoming indistinguishable from other European cities, according to new research, writes Alison Healy.

The survey, by Tourism Ireland, quoted potential holidaymakers who said that while Ireland had great appeal as an urban short-break destination, its cities were becoming more and more like any other European city.

Mark Henry, Tourism Ireland's director of central marketing, said holidaymakers from Britain in particular expressed the view that Ireland was not "different or exotic enough" compared with new east European destinations.

"Five or 10 years ago, Ireland was greatly different from their domestic holidays. Now a lot of retail outlets in Ireland are British, so tourists are less likely to see the sort of uniquely Irish-run stores that they might have seen eight or 10 years ago."

In addition, cheap flights to eastern Europe meant British tourists could now visit more exotic locations for the same price.

A walk down Grafton Street might give the impression of a high street in any British city but this was a superficial view and Tourism Ireland was working to dispel it, Mr Henry said.

The agency was emphasising Ireland's culture and history, its festivals and archaeological landscape.

The four-year survey of more than 28,000 holidaymakers, entitled Marketing Insights - Image of the Island of Ireland, found that most tourists were still drawn here by our warm and witty people; the scenery and green, open spaces; the healthy and relaxing nature of holidays here; and the "craic" in music and pubs.

Tourists said they were turned off by the unpredictable weather; high prices; poor travel infrastructure; and some residual concerns about safety from the Troubles.

Mr Henry said: "Our research shows that our strongest competitive advantage, or what makes us stand out as a destination, lies in our image of a beautiful, green land populated by friendly, welcoming people."

********************************************************

The IT's Frank McDonald is talking about this a lot lately.He reminisces about Grafton St. in the old days when the type of Shops there were probably a lot like Waterford's.A guy in McCanns party was talking to me in the same terms in otherwords "everywhere is the same nowadays"

But consider this.If you like Classical music,You will get whatever you want even the more obscure music in HMV Grafton St.Same goes for Country western,Trip Hop,House Music whatever.Don;t tell me Sinnots or BPM provides this.In the same way with books.The book centre is a good book shop.Even though it is fairly large it is fairly sparse compared to Waterstones.
I hate using the Book centre as an example because I love this place and I have a lot of respect for the Guy who runs it but alas it's true.Interestingly in Naas there is New Book store called Barker and Jones.I was in there once and was fairly impressed.The selection would be similar to the book centre but the have a Costa Cafe upstairs.I saw the Guy who manages the Book centre in There aorganising the Staff.I asked the Girl working in the Cafe was he from Waterford.She said yes and he was the area manager of the chain of stores of which the book centre was one of.

Getting back to the Brewery.McCann and his croneys tend to have the same atitude as Frank McDonald.They don;t like the homogonisation of our high streets.However I resent them trying their social experiments out in Waterford.I don't see why the old and Bohemian and the new can exist together.Like GALWAY for example

col o

merlante wrote:

Ah for **** sake, regarding the bypass. I swear if that thing is delayed any more, I am going to hunt down the ones responsible! :mad:

As for the Brewery impacting on the city wall. This is an image that I found on the web and modified:


The city walls are clearly outlined.

The blue region 1, covers the area that (I think) the main Brewery complex will be covering. The region 2, covers the area (I think) that they plan to build a hotel on -- where the old WIT building is/was.

I don't see how there could be any city wall in region 1?

I'm not sure what sort of impact that the region 2 development would have on the wall. I don't know how close it gets. I can't find an accurate ground plan online.

You are quite right.Well this fact wouuld benift the developers case. I think the main issue is that due to the proximity of the old walls and that the proposed complex is inside where the old walls were.Knowing the history of Waterford and precedents like the Bypass and City Square it is likely there will be remnants of structures were from that era.Bearing in Mind Dr Catherine Swift of SVWAG acknowledged that the EIS was the best she had seen,then who knows.

merlante

col o wrote:

You are quite right.Well this fact wouuld benift the developers case. I think the main issue is that due to the proximity of the old walls and that the proposed complex is inside where the old walls were.Knowing the history of Waterford and precedents like the Bypass and City Square it is likely there will be remnants of structures were from that era.Bearing in Mind Dr Catherine Swift of SVWAG acknowledged that the EIS was the best she had seen,then who knows.

As is clear from the map I posted, you can't do anything big in Waterford city centre without coming close to a wall, not to mind impacting on some minor archaeology. Not that I want anything to be destroyed.

The problem is that there is so much anti-development sentiment, that you feel you can't give them an inch in arguments or nothing will be done at all!

It is worth pointing out that most of the area is run down, and there is relatively little in the way of old walls, etc. there. If we can't build here, then we can't build anywhere in Waterford City centre. This will probably be the last shopping centre to be built within the old city walls. I think it's important that life is kept in the city centre.

I agree with the Phoenix that Peter St., through City Square should be left open. There might be a security issue though.

jd

col o wrote:

buildings on Michael St and as I said an Teagasc and Duchas has raised concerns.

You mean An Taisce (not Teagasc)
jd

col o

merlante wrote:

As is clear from the map I posted, you can't do anything big in Waterford city centre without coming close to a wall, not to mind impacting on some minor archaeology. Not that I want anything to be destroyed.

The problem is that there is so much anti-development sentiment, that you feel you can't give them an inch in arguments or nothing will be done at all!

It is worth pointing out that most of the area is run down, and there is relatively little in the way of old walls, etc. there. If we can't build here, then we can't build anywhere in Waterford City centre. This will probably be the last shopping centre to be built within the old city walls. I think it's important that life is kept in the city centre.

I agree with the Phoenix that Peter St., through City Square should be left open. There might be a security issue though.

This is true and not only in the City cente.The same issue is holding up the Bypass.The thing is that there are public bodies out there to deal with these issues.An Taisce (Not Teagasc as was pointed out to me) and An Bord Pleanala.This however is not good enough for some people.At the second meeting with McCann this guy they brought down from Dublin was claiming An Bord Pleanala was not independant and was biased towards developers.
The kind of Language out of some of these people sounds slightly militant.When someone expresses their concern their are accused of trying to vilify them.There seems to be an atitude that we are the underdog and are fighting the good fight.The reality is the opposite is true.I am ****ing dreading when the North Quays show gets under way.There is no reason why this cannot be a modern city Quarter with modern high rise.Like the development in Drogheda.It would merge with the redeveloped Ard Ri forming a 21st century part of the city.But I am sure if it blocks the view of a tree or a cottage in Ferrybank.the McCann Brigade will be out in full force.

col o

If McCanns group start to getting too militant.They could do untold damage.Waterford got a reputation for militancy in the 80's.This has been put forward as a reason why so many companys went to the other large towns and cities.

I know a guy who worked in Clover Meats in THE 80's.I think he is a supporter of the workers party and is a self confesed (former) militant.There was a dispute there and he did something that got spread all over the national media.I never get around to asking him what he did cause he is not a close friend.I know him through a voluntary organisation I am involved in.But he refers to his halcyon days every chance he gets.Which is inappropriate because the group is non political and strives a great deal to remain so.He was also involved in a stike in Ardkeen involving the contract cleaners and his liberal use of the word "Scab" with people who dont show solidarity says a lot.I am not against unions in principle because I worked in a place where they were a neccessity.But guys like this gave Waterford a bad name in the 80's.Incidently this is the guy who saild the crowd who run the Cibeplex will be running the new pcinema in Railway Square.In my own job it was said to me several time by people from different parts of the country who are old enough to remeber.You also had Waterford Crystal and the Dock srike.The glass factory strikes were always wery significant as the occured at a time when Irelands biggest industry was agriculture and the glass factory was one of the biggest manufacturing facility in the country.

Some of the people at McCanns meeting I think have this atitude and are using maybe using this to forward a political agenda.Added to this you have the usual Nimbys and I am not refering to elderly residents of Alexander St.A lot of these ****ers are just political activists who have been left behind by the pragmatists who joined the labour party.They have no bogeyman to rant on about so they pick developers.

I remember another guy in his sixties.A strange combination.He is from Cork but has a fairly strong Dublin accent.Lives in Wexford.I remember when some Nimbys objected to the bypass.This guy thought it was great.Power to the people kinda thing.It didn't seem to enter his head that this piece of infrastructure was for the ****ing people of Waterford to help them.He just saw some big FF bogeyman laying concrete around Waterford to opress the people.He also spoke endearingly of Pat Rabbite in the 80's regarding industrial disputes in Dublin Port.According to him the Special Branch used to be boarding vessels looking for contraband and Guns that were being smuggled by Port Workers for SF and the Workers Party.

Some people in Waterford miss those days.It was there raison d'etre.Our neighbours in Kilkenny and Wexford are almost as bad.Remember a couple years back when they were talking about pedestrianising Broad St.Taxi drivers threatened to blockade the North Quays.If every one in Waterford read from the same page we would get things done.Unfottunately very few seem to want to do this.

merlante

Ah **** it. Maybe the fight between the new and the old will add character to the place.

But yeah, I hope cop on prevails.

Jor

I think most of Irelands city centres are in danger of losing any bit of their character left. Every pedestrianised area is in Euro-drab Grey. The British chain-stores that are did not want to know us 20 years ago are fighting for our Euros (now that we have some money) by simply cloneing their High Street shopfronts anywhere they can. Bland shopping centres (City Square is a prime example) suck most commercial activity (and so also human activity)into small pockets of our cities and towns.
Anyone who looks at pictures of Waterford from 1900's,1920's and even up to the 1970's will see streets full of individual shops. The Michael St. area is about the last remaining part of the city with this old character to it.
Can we not protect this last piece of commercial architecture from the concrete and plastic.
I am not against progress, but just don't see the need to dump the past just to facilitate the future.

On a matter of "Thread Housekeeping"!? if you like, could people cut down on the use of quoting previous posts. It can be overused, unnecessarily adding to the length of threads. Also, as a recent thread on RTE and WRH showed, it can tend to make replies seem too personal.

col o

That is a fair statement if it is true.But I fail to see where this character was in the first place.One quote about Dublin in the 80's by a former lord mayor of the city was "It had about as much charm as a second rate knackers yard".I believe this to be a fair statement and reflective of most towns in Ireland.This is certainly not Dublin today despite all the british.(And american and Swedish as well as IRISH)

I think this is we were poor but happy syndrome.HMV and all the rest are in Henry St but Dolphin Discs is still around the corner.There is plenty of our indigineous shops around.Of course we don't want to look like a British high Street.Lets bear in mind we had british chains before like woolworths and BHS and people yearned for them when they left.

Also as far as character goes.Our smaller shops have all become Spars and Centras selling goods at inflated prices.It took Nigerians,Russians and Asians to bring the small shop back to our strrets.Protectionism never got Ireland anywhere.

lostexpectation

col o wrote:

There was two Sinn Fein councillers there.Joe Kelly and David Cullinane.Cullinane didn't seem too interested to be honest.Either did Joe Kelly.They basically explained the planning procedure to everyone and that was the extent of it.There was a minor heated exchange between me and this elder woman.I noticed David Cullinane was amused by this.McCann calmed down things before it came to blows:D This started because some Belgian guy asked me why I was so interested in this af I was living in Dublin.The old lady thought he was saying I had no business getting involved.He apologised later.

The two SF councillers said most of City Hall were infavour of the development.I think the general feeling is the developers have at least two other options up there sleeve if this one gets knocked back.In other words they are only testing the water.I would tend to agree because the plans I saw looked huge.
Apparently there is a hugh amount of old walls and buildings.There would be a hugh amount of resistance from Duchas,An Teagasc and N Bord Pleanala if they tried to destroy these.

Its funny how Duchas don't exist anymore its was demolished by the gov
Yes I building will get built for the "****ing people" but who do you actually think benefits the
most?

educate yourself about shoping centres http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3703&

col o

lostexpectation wrote:

Its funny how Duchas don't exist anymore its was demolished by the gov
Yes I building will get built for the "****ing people" but who do you actually think benefits the
most?

educate yourself http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3703&

Why don't you tell me why duchas doesn't exist anymore and how the government demolished it.

As for who will benefit the most.I am sure whoever builds the Brewery shopping centre will benifit the most.Otherwise they wouldn't do it.That is not to say others will not benefit.Including Waterford people by the extra competition provided by the new store.

Your archiseek link refers to out of town shopping centres which the Brewery isn't.The posters are by no means unanimous on their opinions.In fact maybe you should actually say what you mean before you go telling me to "educate myself"

Jor

Hey Guys, what did I say about Quotes.
You have just proven what I said.

col o

Hi Jor,
I apreciate what your saying about the Eurodrab grey pedestrianisation.But I think the removal of cars from the main st was a good idea and the pedestrianisation.I think a better option would have been the old type of paving you see down by the Granary.If your old enough to remember this is what they had down in Georges St up until the early 80's it was the remnants of the paving from thr 19th century.There was also some left in Barronstrand st/Broad st/ triangle which at the time was just a car park.I think they had a problem down by the Granary with litigation cases by people who tripped fell on the cobble type of paving.As for Michael St.I would prefer if the old shop fronts were kept.

I wouldn't have such a beef with Brendan McCann if this was the only objection he has put forward but I believe there is over sixty.Especially when the area concerned is largely a blank canvas.

Bards

Well that's the end of that.. City Council have turned down the Planning permission as it stands... The developers will have to come up with a plan B