McCann objects against Brewery Complex

trishw78

TBH I've taken myself outta this thread because I've not been to objection meeting etc and not done the "homework" as col_o has sujested. But I have been reading the thread.

I am a little disappointed as to the people who thing that just because the Martinia Gate Building is not open for business money is being lost. Building and openings don't just happen with the click of a magical finger.

I am also a little disapointed that people don't want to see Waterford develop into a modern "Gateway City" it should be standing up there with Cork and Dublin at this point as a major hub. But sadly it isn't because of what every reasons in the past.

I stand on the anti-McCann side because he is holding back the development, of potentially great modern buildings and bringing this city into the 21 century. Maybe it's just the capitalist in me but competition is good. I'm tired of hearing the same peoples names getting mentioned.

col o

trishw78 wrote:

I stand on the anti-McCann side because he is holding back the development, of potentially great modern buildings and bringing this city into the 21 century. Maybe it's just the capitalist in me but competition is good. I'm tired of hearing the same peoples names getting mentioned.

Well said.That is all that most people who are pro development are trying to acheive.We're not the pro-capitalist,pro fat cat bogeymen some people want to believe.All the people behind these objections are insular and don't want change.The Waterford city centre they want to preserve is only a poor realtive of what it was.They seem to forget that there is thousands of people who leave Waterford to go to live in Dublin and Cork beacause of this insular atitude and a lack of diversity od services.There will be many more who will go away to college and never come back for thesame reason.

trishw78

I left Waterford to go to College in Dublin. I go to either Cork or Dublin approx. 4 times a year for nothing other than getting out of Waterford and do some shopping where I have a bigger selection and more choice and comfort shopping.

Sorry to saw this but there is yet another reason that waterford doesn't compet with these cities.

col o

trishw78 wrote:

I left Waterford to go to College in Dublin. I go to either Cork or Dublin approx. 4 times a year for nothing other than getting out of Waterford and do some shopping where I have a bigger selection and more choice and comfort shopping.

Sorry to saw this but there is yet another reason that waterford doesn't compet with these cities.

It can't stay like this.There is too many people like yourself who will come back and demand change.As well as a lot of people who never left who want to see the city develop.Add to this the foreigners who are coming here.These are not just Eastern Europeans.Many are French and German,practically from everywhwere.Unlike myself these people won't be satisfied with tea and luncheon blaas.
Interestingly I was watching Q&A last night.They were talking about the Strategic infrastructure bill.There was this guy in the audience who appeared to be from a rural area between Navan and Dubboyne,more or less where the M3 motorway is going to go.He said most of the objectors where 'outsiders' in the case of the M3 motorway.Not very elequently put but never the less true.Navan has similar issues to Waterford regarding infrastructure etc.The story with McCann's group is the same.Some of the group are from outside Waterford who were not here in the 'Bad old days' and saw the place going to hell.Some can afford to indulge their passions in Heritage because they are financially ok.Others are archaologists whose Bread and butter is of course archaology.There is fringe political elements and elderly residents who are the only ones who would have my sympathy.But it has to be said there is people in the group who are residents of the area who are not in the imediate vicinity of the Brewery and would largely not be intruded upon.Classic NIMBYism.Or BANANAism as it now known.

Aquos76

mike65 wrote:

Chaps calm down eh? I got notice of an abusive post from a user, the post in question is okay (it does'nt contain personal abuse aimed at anyone here) but temps are getting high for no good purpose.

Mike.

Mike, can you please tell me how this is not offensive

yes, I'm probably a bastard for disagreeing with you, you'd probably like to round up all the bastards you don't like and put them in camps.

Suddenly, Hitler springs to mind!

meldrew

Imo that poster is either mcCann or one of his supporters

col o

meldrew wrote:

Imo that poster is either mcCann or one of his supporters

I thought so too but I wasn't going to say.

Freddie59

col o wrote:

I thought so too but I wasn't going to say.

I personally think that Mr McCann's behaviour is obsessive compulsive. He sees a planning notice and automatically objects to it. I don't think he even realises he's doing it at this stage. Someone saw him look at a planning notice for a house extension last week(!).

I wonder if he has lodged any objections at his place of employment, WIT, given their burst of expansion in recent years, and given that it is located on THE main thoroughfare in the City.

I wonder also if he has lodged any objections to developments in his home City, Galway? I would imagine if you feel passionate enough about something you would look at the bigger picture (countrywide).

For example, many of us post on various different forums on boards.ie so surely Brendan should behave in a similar vein in his objections.

Mike - you're right. Tempers are short. And they're getting shorter because it is perceived that Mr. McCann now appears to be objecting as some form of hobby......to the detriment of our City's development.

If any of his 'supporters' (and a certain media host locally) are reading this, I hope that, when they have some time to reflect, they begin to realise the actual and potential damage which both he and they are doing to our wonderful City.

In my finest Waterford parlance - cop yourself on Brendan.

jmcc

Did McCann run as a Green Party candidate in the last General Election?

Regards...jmcc

mike65

Aquos76 - being likened to a Nazi stormtrooper is tiresome internet moaning I would'nt get to upset by it. Think of it as just another example of Godwins Law and that means Karma Police looses the argument. Which he has done on this thread.

Mike.

meldrew

jmcc wrote:

Did McCann run as a Green Party candidate in the last General Election?

Regards...jmcc

Yes and got maybe a couple of thousand votes if I remember correctly , he has also run in the last local elections with no luck and if my memory serves me correctly there was a dispute in his own party locally about him getting the nomination to run !
Even likeminded party members dont seem to get on with him ! But none of that would bother the man as he sees it he is on a crusade and nothing or nobody will stop him

merlante

http://electionsireland.org/candidate.cfm?id=4384

1997 28th Dail Green Waterford Not Elected (3) 809 1.81% 0.09
1999 Local Green Waterford No 2 Not Elected (8) 275 5.68% 0.34
2002 29th Dail Green Waterford Not Elected (3) 1,361 2.92% 0.15
2004 Local Green Waterford No 2 Not Elected (5) 528 7.53% 0.45

meldrew

Fair play to you Merlante , those figures speak for themselves

jmcc

meldrew wrote:

if my memory serves me correctly there was a dispute in his own party locally about him getting the nomination to run !

Politically, that "serial objector" label is a vote loser and I think that FF and FG will use it to great effect if McCann is selected as the Green Party candidate for the next GE. If he is not from Waterford, then that could be spun very nastily as someone from elsewhere telling us how we should run things. It will be interesting to see if the Green Party will nominate him for the next GE.

Regards...jmcc

col o

Problem with the Green Party is people might actually vote for them thinking they actually have feasible policies.I think most people would agree that there needs to be a move away from oil based energy sources.Let's say hypothetically they won an overall majority and had a chance to implement there policies.I think you would have everybody who lives in a rural area geyting it in the neck and you would forget any motorways or roads being built.Buses and trains would be the way forward which sounds good.However we live in the least dense country in Europe which means it would be much harder to emulate Hollandor Belgium without mass urbanisation.

I just read a speeech by Dick roche of WCTU in Waterford Today.Rehashing the refusal of the 'Brewery complex' and all that.The 'Waterford Alliance for Sustainable Inner City Development has expressed its concern at the proposed rezoning of the Tarmac at the top of Wyse Park.Where did I put the valium?.......

Bookee

Where's Wyse Park...?

col o

Bookee wrote:

Where's Wyse Park...?

If you use the laneway by the Jolly Barbers(behind K recipe and where the Beefy King used to be) walk in the direction of Newgate St.It is the park just over the wall on your left.It was nicknamed Linden Village by the press about 10 years ago because of all the cider drinking in there.At one stage there was about 200 empty cider bottles behind one of the benches hence the name.There is the remains of an old church which is visible from the Manor if you look just beside Masons nightclub.

merlante

Bookee wrote:

Where's Wyse Park...?

Where indeed? An inner city, civic park that nobody knows about! Also known as the New Park, and never as Wyse Park, incidentally, it flourished for about 10 years in my parents' time, before fading in to neglect and obscurity. It would eventually rank alongside the historical and sorely missed Cow Sheds on the Quay as a knacker drinker's paradise.

Just as well the cow sheds are gone. You'd have the Waterford Council of Socialist, Communist, Obstructionist, Nihilist, Ratherprotestthanworkist Trade Unions demanding that it remain standing, and that the man who comes along once a week to wash the floor should be guaranteed his job for eternity. And that no fancier sheds should ever be built, in case this man and his shed are demeaned, or that his shed would close and he might have to apply for another job... Throw in Brendan McCann raving about historical, architectural destruction, and the fact that there may be a dogs bone buried underneath the place, or a rare form of lichen living on the roof, and the fun really begins to start.

It'll be some crack trying to get the North Quays cleared. Despite every sane human being praying every night for it to be nuked from space, we can't elect or unelect powers like McCann who decide these things.

Bookee

Parents of a friend of mine (who've lived in the city a long time) were recently talking about the vacant site opposite O'Neils Yard. Apparently it used to be a stable..! What a lovely thought. But in realistic terms, it couldn't be any more.
The horse has moved on.
But the place is just becoming more delapidated(sp?). I can visualise that area becoming a lovely spot, right by the river...! Will I ever see it..
:rolleyes:

meldrew

Not if McCann and his cronies have their way

trishw78

I was tg4 last night and An Tuath Nua. Did anyone know that Waterford had been awarded Fair Trade City for 05 I didn't so to get to my point cue scene of WIT it's canteen is a Fair Trade Canteen and low and behold guess who was getting in on the action... Yes My Brendan McCann I couldn't believe there he was talking about fair trade and how important it is. I couldn't believe it is there nothing this man isn't involved in.

mire

i have heard a lot about the brewery development proposal recently and know that it recently received an outright refusal from Waterford City Council - what were the reasons given for refusal? does anyone have any images of the proposed development?

every city has a brendan maccann figure or group - and to be honest - the amount of abuse in this thread directed at him is way over the top - just because he is unelected doesnt mean that he doesnt have a right to object - it is his and every individual's right to have an input on proposed developments - now i understand that he probably excersises that right more than most and that it would appear that his actions are highly orchestrated and people feel he is holding back the city.

the city centre in waterford does need investment and development - but not development at any cost - with the brewery development getting an outright refusal it seems that the planners didnt need objectors to tell them that it was a bad development - there is no doubt that the developers will re-submit and it is likely to be a much better proposal..

deisemum

Yes I knew about the Fair Trade thing. There was a coffee morning in the cafe above Ardkeen Quality Foodstore sponsored by the supermarket. They stock a lot of fair trade products but it's very expensive.

merlante

mire wrote:

i have heard a lot about the brewery development proposal recently and know that it recently received an outright refusal from Waterford City Council - what were the reasons given for refusal? does anyone have any images of the proposed development?

every city has a brendan maccann figure or group - and to be honest - the amount of abuse in this thread directed at him is way over the top - just because he is unelected doesnt mean that he doesnt have a right to object - it is his and every individual's right to have an input on proposed developments - now i understand that he probably excersises that right more than most and that it would appear that his actions are highly orchestrated and people feel he is holding back the city.

the city centre in waterford does need investment and development - but not development at any cost - with the brewery development getting an outright refusal it seems that the planners didnt need objectors to tell them that it was a bad development - there is no doubt that the developers will re-submit and it is likely to be a much better proposal..

You have obviously not read this thread in its entirety. It's easier to post your own brilliant ideas rather than go to the bother of reading other people's posts isin't it?

To summarise what you missed:
1. The 'abuse' against Brendan McCann is predicated not on his objections to the Brewery, but on the fact that he objects to everything in Waterford; good, bad or indifferent. Over 60 objections over the past few years. You seem to be acknowledging this, while at the same time, telling us the abuse is over the top?

2. Where in the 9 pages of this thread did anyone question an individual's right to object?

3. Where in the 9 pages of this thread did anyone argue for "development at all costs". Instead, there has been a fair amount of discussion on the proposal, merits and flaws, and on the impact of the Brewery on the city walls, etc.

4. Even if the developers re-submit an application, which is by no means guaranteed, despite what many, including the phoenix, may think, the development could be delayed by years. Now that's fair enough if the objections are valid, but McCann cares not about whether objections are valid or not: he objects regardless. It is not unusual for developers to "sit" on land for 5 to 10 years, watch the value rise, and then sell it on. This is what could easily happen with the North Quays. In this case, investors from Cork with a "medium term" plan outbid a local consortium with "short term" plan. Medium term could mean anything, whenever.

So let us hope that developers are not as evil or as greedy as some people here seem to be making out, because we can't force them to develop, and they don't have to develop to make a profit!

Bards

mire wrote:

i have heard a lot about the brewery development proposal recently and know that it recently received an outright refusal from Waterford City Council - what were the reasons given for refusal? does anyone have any images of the proposed development?

every city has a brendan maccann figure or group - and to be honest - the amount of abuse in this thread directed at him is way over the top - just because he is unelected doesnt mean that he doesnt have a right to object - it is his and every individual's right to have an input on proposed developments - now i understand that he probably excersises that right more than most and that it would appear that his actions are highly orchestrated and people feel he is holding back the city.

the city centre in waterford does need investment and development - but not development at any cost - with the brewery development getting an outright refusal it seems that the planners didnt need objectors to tell them that it was a bad development - there is no doubt that the developers will re-submit and it is likely to be a much better proposal..

Again if you read the thread the reasons are laid out in black and white why the City Council refused Planning permission.

May I suggest that you start at the begining before posting futher to this thread

mire

sorry about that there people - didnt have time to read everything and was just tying to find out reasons for refusal and to get an impression of the scheme thats all - im not from the city, but have heard quite a bit about it and have not seen any visuals of the scheme. and i will read the full thread when i have some spare time. i really just wanted to comment on some of what i would consider to be 'over the top' personalised stuff that i did read about that individual.

Freddie59

mire wrote:

i have heard a lot about the brewery development proposal recently and know that it recently received an outright refusal from Waterford City Council - what were the reasons given for refusal? does anyone have any images of the proposed development?

every city has a brendan maccann figure or group - and to be honest - the amount of abuse in this thread directed at him is way over the top - just because he is unelected doesnt mean that he doesnt have a right to object - it is his and every individual's right to have an input on proposed developments - now i understand that he probably excersises that right more than most and that it would appear that his actions are highly orchestrated and people feel he is holding back the city.

the city centre in waterford does need investment and development - but not development at any cost - with the brewery development getting an outright refusal it seems that the planners didnt need objectors to tell them that it was a bad development - there is no doubt that the developers will re-submit and it is likely to be a much better proposal..

Are you for real? If a "person" like him is, IMO, abusing the planning process in such a way ANYWHERE in Ireland I'd like to hear about him/her. What makes it all the more maddening is that while he's objected to almost everything in Waterford City in the past two years, he apparently has made NO OBJECTIONS to the ongoing massive development at his place of employment, WIT.

jmcc

mire wrote:

every city has a brendan maccann figure or group - and to be honest - the amount of abuse in this thread directed at him is way over the top

No. This guy sets himself up as some kind of authority on what is good for our city and you think that people here should not criticise his activities? Nobody elected him to speak for us. He has failed at all attempts to be elected to either the Dail or the Council. Why is that?

it would appear that his actions are highly orchestrated and people feel he is holding back the city.

That's the problem. It is perceived that he has an agenda that is anti-Waterford. If the Green Party have him as a candidate in any future election here, then they are not serious about getting people elected. While I might be inclined to vote Green Party, I would not vote for the Greens if he is a candidate.

Regards...jmcc

col o

There is some interesting letters in the News & Star this week from one of McCanns entourage.She writes about how:

1.a profusion of shops will not make Waterford stand out from other cities.

2.There is more to a city centre than just shops i.e ambience and over all feel etc.

3.How railway square looks like it was dropped from space.

4.Preservation of our narrow streets is the way to go.Kilkenny is the proof of this.


Most Significantly:

5. How the Brewey contravened the city development plan and that it is more suited to a green field site.


A Profusion of shops won't make Waterford stand out.However it might retain millions in the local economy.The Eiffel tower looked like it dropped from space.They bitched and moaned and now the same structure personofies Paris and it's 'ambience'.

Kilkenny is the way to go.If you want to be a provincial town.

The Brewery centre may have conrtavened the development plan as it was.However if this idiot actually read the development plan it would specifically say that out of town shopping centres are discouraged.The reason being to protect the city centre.This person is either being selective or is as thick as two short planks.I would guess the latter as it is the same person who told me Waterford doesn't need shops.

Where's the ****ing valium again.

deisemum

Galway city has lots of narrow streets and yet the city was allowed to develop. When Corbert court shopping centre was built it preserved the city walls and opened them up to people who never knew they even existed. Most people who visit Galway come away with the impression of a city that's got a great feel and ambience about it, not just for shopping but a great social life.

I believe the plans for the Brewery were submitted (as suggested elsewhere on this thread) knowing they'd be refused and that there is a plan B and plan C because no matter what's put forward excluding the WIT Brendan McCann will object.

There is a lot of money leaving Waterford city every week and this increases especially in the 2 -3 months in the run up to Christmas, not just from shops but from restaurants, taxi, pubs and nightclubs. A lot of people travel to Cork or Dublin on a regular basis to shop and often stay for a night or two and make a weekend of it. A lot go on day trips. I go to Cork on a regular basis and I've yet to go and not see other people from Waterford.

If Waterford had a decent shopping centre this trend could be reversed and the haemorrhaging money would stay in the area, people would be encouraged to visit Waterford and even make weekends of it. Again more money for the local economy, more employment which would enable a better quality of life for a lot of local people.