Banned from Lost????????

Gordon

garred wrote:

Sorry Steve but how? Substitute the word "buy" for get in both contexts there. Then substitute the word "download". How is one more practical than the other? My point being he was banned because of an interpretation of the word "get" when there is a valid argument for both meanings. If he had used the words obtain, locate, etc would he of gotten the same?

You're missing the context.

Before he was banned he said this:

I asked where could i get it > to which there are a number of responses. ie "you could get your cousins in the USA to send you a tape"

The fact that he didn't clarify that his true intentions were actually not downloading kinda proves that he intended to download illegally.

Jumpy

Gordon wrote:

The fact that he didn't clarify that his true intentions were actually not downloading kinda proves that he intended to download illegally.

Actually it proves that he didnt clarify, you are reaching a bit here.

WizZard

The key phrase here is "in this context".

The first (I must get this) suggests that you have ways and means of getting the thing in question, not a bannable offense.
However, the second(Where do I get this) in this context of an unreleased (except by broadcast) item, implies that you are asking for help in getting something by illegitimate means. In this case, obtain, locate etc would have implied similar.

If you access boards.ie on a stolen laptop, boards cannot be held responsible for that act. However if you ask, and receive help, on where to obtain a stolen laptop on boards.ie, boards owners (the admins) can be held liable for providing that information.

WizZard

Jumpy wrote:

And if we want to get super charter sticky here is this not also against it steveland?

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: G - to the muddaf**kin - Nevin
Posts: 3,416

Could I not take that the wrong way and be significantly offended by it?

If you wanted to, that's your prerogative. If you are offended by such, and feel strongly enough about it then ask for rules to be put in place for wording for Location text.

Skitbra wrote:

Its not a good enough reason not to unban him. Just because you feel he was "moaning". He wasn't moaning. He was trying to make a complaint and most people would agree with him.

Of course it is a good reason. If he's unbanned then the next person who is banned for the same offense will use the excuse that someone else was pardoned for not reading the charter.

At this point the OPs arguments are mere semantics, which is never good as the charters are designed to not have to point out every little infraction that can be made, only the type of infractions that are bannable.

<edit>What the hell is happening to the posts in this thread? Are there a lot of deletions?</edit>

Gordon

Jumpy wrote:

Actually it proves that he didnt clarify, you are reaching a bit here.

Why didn't he clarify then?

garred

Fair enough Gordon. But if someone asked the exact same question about a movie, the exact same way, in the film forum the would be given links to play, cd-wow, etc. If his post (the one which he was banned on) went on about downloading well then fair enough. If his post only asked where can I get this and nothing about downloading, to me it seems a bit unfair. Regardless of what came about in the feedback forum, he was tried and executed on his original post.

steveland?

garred wrote:

Sorry Steve but how? Substitute the word "buy" for get in both contexts there. Then substitute the word "download". How is one more practical than the other? My point being he was banned because of an interpretation of the word "get" when there is a valid argument for both meanings. If he had used the words obtain, locate, etc would he of gotten the same?

Excuse me?

"I must get this" implies that yes they're either going to buy it (unlikely if it's not released yes, like Lost) or they're going to download it illegally... Substitute download in there and it just shows that that person is going to download it. No comeback on boards because they're not going to be providing information on where to download it. There's a very big difference.

"Where can I get this?" implies they're either wondering where to buy it or where to download it (Lost isn't out yet so the only possibility is asking where to download it)

Substitute download in here and they're asking where to download something illegally... it's not the question that brings boards into disrepute it's the flood of answers there'll be...

Asking where to download something will not get boards into trouble, the torrent (excuse the pun) of people answering will... That's why asking is against the rules and it's made very clear that this is against the rules.

If he'd used the words obtain, locate, etc that's exactly the same thing and the same punishment would have been invoked... Do you really think otherwise?

If anyone had answered him in that thread they'd have been banned too but since most of the people who were involved in that thread read the rules before they posted no-one did... The reason it was locked was so that no-one could provide answers.

It works the same way as new movies. They're usually licenced for release in the US, Canada, wherever before they're released elsewhere (Ireland and UK being others) depending on the movie. If people download them I don't care... The problem is when people start providing download links or asking for them since they are asking for something illegal...

My last word on the subject (I will no longer be replying to this thread unless I REALLY feel it's neccessary) is that asking for downloads is against the rules. Providing downloads is against the rules... This is clearly laid out in the stickies (the reason there's no main charter for Lost is that imo people tend not to read the charters... I'd prefer three stickies with the main points of the rules laid out plain and simple in the thread titles of the stickies: No asking for/providing download links or file titles, the way of spoilering the threads in the titles and the fact that it's a permenant ban for these... The permenant ban one is, atm, at the VERY top of the forum so ignorance to the rules is not an excuse)

As I've said before if a Television Mod, Cat Mod or Super Mod feel like unbanning C_Breeze then they can... for the moment I won't be

WizZard

garred wrote:

But if someone asked the exact same question about a movie, the exact same way, in the film forum the would be given links to play, cd-wow, etc. If his post (the one which he was banned on) went on about downloading well then fair enough. If his post only asked where can I get this and nothing about downloading, to me it seems a bit unfair. Regardless of what came about in the feedback forum, he was tried and executed on his original post.

If I go to the Lost forum now and ask "Where can I get season 1?" then I would most likely be redirected to play/cdwow/blah etc since it is available legally!
Season 2 isn't however, and that is the crux of this argument.

Jumpy

Gordon wrote:

Why didn't he clarify then?

Because he probably (like most) didnt actually know how strict the mods were about such issues.
He has since made it clear that he knows now, yet is met with an unlifted ban.
My example I posted is to prove that obviously not everything is followed to the exact letter. If it was then Steveland?s offensive location would have earned him a ban.... but even if it was to be taken that harshly it wouldnt be a permanent one.
As a mod even for a forum as small as Lost, Steveland? needs to be able to make decisions on punishments for charter offenses, however it shows a distinct lack of experience that he would permaban for such a small offense that has been challenged and apologised for.

C_Breeze

garred wrote:

Fair enough Gordon. But if someone asked the exact same question about a movie, the exact same way, in the film forum the would be given links to play, cd-wow, etc. If his post (the one which he was banned on) went on about downloading well then fair enough. If his post only asked where can I get this and nothing about downloading, to me it seems a bit unfair. Regardless of what came about in the feedback forum, he was tried and executed on his original post.

Exactly! -thats the perfect example to my point!
thanks.

If i was to be unbanned , and the situation should arise where other people were to use me as an excuse to also be unbanned i would hope that they were primarily banned on concrete evidence of going agaisnt the charter not on an assumption , as I was.

steveland?

garred wrote:

Fair enough Gordon. But if someone asked the exact same question about a movie, the exact same way, in the film forum the would be given links to play, cd-wow, etc. If his post (the one which he was banned on) went on about downloading well then fair enough. If his post only asked where can I get this and nothing about downloading, to me it seems a bit unfair. Regardless of what came about in the feedback forum, he was tried and executed on his original post.

OK I know i said i wouldn't reply further but **** it... some of these stupid arguments are making me angry enough to reply...

If someone orders something from Play, CDWow etc they're already LEGALLY OBTAINABLE! They don't provide something that someone in America sat at home Tivo-ing and re-encoding for download... that's a ridiculous argument...

WizZard wrote:

The key phrase here is "in this context".

The first (I must get this) suggests that you have ways and means of getting the thing in question, not a bannable offense.
However, the second(Where do I get this) in this context of an unreleased (except by broadcast) item, implies that you are asking for help in getting something by illegitimate means. In this case, obtain, locate etc would have implied similar.

If you access boards.ie on a stolen laptop, boards cannot be held responsible for that act. However if you ask, and receive help, on where to obtain a stolen laptop on boards.ie, boards owners (the admins) can be held liable for providing that information.

Couldn't have put it better myself...

Jumpy wrote:

And if we want to get super charter sticky here is this not also against it steveland?

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: G - to the muddaf**kin - Nevin
Posts: 3,416

Could I not take that the wrong way and be significantly offended by it?
No, because most people enforce the rules to obtain a purpose, you have made your point, now a permanent ban is unneccesary.

Funnily enough that's been there since the moment I signed up in March 2004. It's been there nearly 2 years with no apparent problems with it. If a few people have a problem with it (not someone deciding that they're taking offence just because they're losing a completely futile argument where they're in the wrong and want to get extremely petty) I'll remove it and change it...

I agree the punishment is harsh but the rule was put in place when it became a real problem, with a good few threads being someone asking for downloads or file titles... Since I put the permenant ban rule in place I've only had to ban 1 person other than C_Breeze...

Edit: By the way that one other person was techie_2006 who was subsequently sitebanned so it's fair to assume they were just acting the muppet asking

More editing:

As a mod even for a forum as small as Lost, Steveland? needs to be able to make decisions on punishments for charter offenses, however it shows a distinct lack of experience that he would permaban for such a small offense that has been challenged and apologised for.

I am perfectly capable of making decisions... that's exactly what I've done... a small offence that's explicitly explained is a permenantly bannable offence... It's there in plain letters in the TITLE of the thread that the VERY top of the page... you don't even need to read the thread to know that it's a permenantly bannable offence...

And getting tetchy about my location is just petty... You've run out of circular arguments and won't accept that what was posted is laid out plain and simple for everyone to see that it's against the rules

garred

steveland? wrote:

Excuse me?

"I must get this" implies that yes they're either going to buy it (unlikely if it's not released yes, like Lost) or they're going to download it illegally... Substitute download in there and it just shows that that person is going to download it. No comeback on boards because they're not going to be providing information on where to download it. There's a very big difference.

"Where can I get this?" implies they're either wondering where to buy it or where to download it (Lost isn't out yet so the only possibility is asking where to download it)

Substitute download in here and they're asking where to download something illegally... it's not the question that brings boards into disrepute it's the flood of answers there'll be...

Asking where to download something will not get boards into trouble, the torrent (excuse the pun) of people answering will... That's why asking is against the rules and it's made very clear that this is against the rules.

If he'd used the words obtain, locate, etc that's exactly the same thing and the same punishment would have been invoked... Do you really think otherwise?

If anyone had answered him in that thread they'd have been banned too but since most of the people who were involved in that thread read the rules before they posted no-one did... The reason it was locked was so that no-one could provide answers.

It works the same way as new movies. They're usually licenced for release in the US, Canada, wherever before they're released elsewhere (Ireland and UK being others) depending on the movie. If people download them I don't care... The problem is when people start providing download links or asking for them since they are asking for something illegal...

My last word on the subject (I will no longer be replying to this thread unless I REALLY feel it's neccessary) is that asking for downloads is against the rules. Providing downloads is against the rules... This is clearly laid out in the stickies (the reason there's no main charter for Lost is that imo people tend not to read the charters... I'd prefer three stickies with the main points of the rules laid out plain and simple in the thread titles of the stickies: No asking for/providing download links or file titles, the way of spoilering the threads in the titles and the fact that it's a permenant ban for these... The permenant ban one is, atm, at the VERY top of the forum so ignorance to the rules is not an excuse)

As I've said before if a Television Mod, Cat Mod or Super Mod feel like unbanning C_Breeze then they can... for the moment I won't be

Sorry Steve but you seem to be assuming he knew he could'nt get it on dvd, thats why the original question. I did'nt know Lost 2 was'nt out on dvd either. Just cause its not here does'nt mean you can't get it on dvd. Again, hate to harp on about it, but in the film context there are plenty of films that can't be bought here but can be on legitimate sites, movies still in the cinema. To be honest I would of phrased it the exact same way "where can I get this" meaning where it can be bought.
Then it would of been me in feedback harping on about an unfair banning

steveland?

garred wrote:

Sorry Steve but you seem to be assuming he knew he could'nt get it on dvd, thats why the original question. I did'nt know Lost 2 was'nt out on dvd either. Just cause its not here does'nt mean you can't get it on dvd. Again, hate to harp on about it, but in the film context there are plenty of films that can't be bought here but can be on legitimate sites, movies still in the cinema. To be honest I would of phrased it the exact same way "where can I get this" meaning where it can be bought.
Then it would of been me in feedback harping on about an unfair banning

So you didn't know that a tv series that hasn't even been aired on TV yet in America, let alone Ireland and the UK, isn't out on DVD yet?

It's obvious it's not going to be on DVD so don't use the argument of buying a film that's been released in America, had it's run in the cinemas and has been released on DVD and is available legally from the US as a valid point in this discussion because it's completely flawed

C_Breeze

Thanks Garred , Jumpy and Skitbra but its obvious that Steveland wont budge on this one. At least I fell better for at least trying.
so much for democracy then :rolleyes:

garred

Yep. Just like Hellboy, Crash, etc were able to be bought on dvd well before being released in cinemas in the UK and Ireland.
How is this flawed. Like I said I did'nt know you could'nt get Lost 2 on dvd but if I really wanted it I would of gone to the Lost forum and asked the same question.

fade2black

But maybe he didn't know it hadn't been aired in America yet. Maybe he just finished watching series 1, saw all the talk about series 2 and wondered when and where it could be gooton. Maybe. (Just maybe mind you)

steveland?

garred wrote:

Yep. Just like Hellboy, Crash, etc were able to be bought on dvd well before being released in cinemas in the UK and Ireland.

Yes... legally...

garred

C_Breeze wrote:

Thanks Garred , Jumpy and Skitbra but its obvious that Steveland wont budge on this one. At least I fell better for at least trying.
so much for democracy then :rolleyes:

In fairness at least he is giving his side of the argument instead of sticking his head into the sand.

steveland?

fade2black wrote:

But maybe he didn't know it hadn't been aired in America yet. Maybe he just finished watching series 1, saw all the talk about series 2 and wondered when and where it could be gooton. Maybe. (Just maybe mind you)

C_Breeze also asked in that thread when it was being aired in the US... he knew well and good it wasn't broadcast yet

steveland?

garred wrote:

In fairness at least he is giving his side of the argument instead of sticking his head into the sand.

Thanks, I'm not posting here to look like a bastard and stick to my guns so people don't think I'm soft on the issue... My only reason for taking time to post here is to show that there is reasoning behind the banning and that there is a justifiable reason.

Since the permenant banning rule came into effect there's been little or no discussion on where to download episodes, and on the very odd occasion it has happened it's been nuked pretty quickly.

fade2black

steveland? wrote:

C_Breeze also asked in that thread when it was being aired in the US... he knew well and good it wasn't broadcast yet

Well there ya go so, I didn't see the thread in question so it looks like C_Breeze is trying to get off this one on a technicality.

C_Breeze

steveland? wrote:

C_Breeze also asked in that thread when it was being aired in the US... he knew well and good it wasn't broadcast yet

I actually wasnt sure whetehr it was or wasnt, hence me asking the question.

Villain

steveland? wrote:

he knew well and good it wasn't broadcast yet

I thought they had broadcast about 7 episodes of series 2 in America?

PS. Google is normally the best place to look for dvd's* of TV Shows

*or Torrents-Cough

Aquos76

Jasus give the guy a break. Surely he has seen his error and that should be the end of it.

If you really want to know there to get them google for them or just send me a pm and I will put you out of you misery.

garred

steveland? wrote:

Thanks, I'm not posting here to look like a bastard and stick to my guns so people don't think I'm soft on the issue... My only reason for taking time to post here is to show that there is reasoning behind the banning and that there is a justifiable reason.

Since the permenant banning rule came into effect there's been little or no discussion on where to download episodes, and on the very odd occasion it has happened it's been nuked pretty quickly.

Yep fair play Steve.

Orion

C_Breeze wrote:

so much for democracy then :rolleyes:

Ah there it is - I was waiting for it FYI Boards is not, never has been and never will be a democracy. It's a service provided at no small cost that anyone can use freely but the admins word is final and they delegate some of their responsibility to mods who's word is pretty much final as well in their own areas. They tend to chose the mods carefully and it's very rare that one of them goes on a "power trip". As DeV has said many times - if you don't like it then don't come to boards. You should possible read the FAQ on this point. Particularly this bit:

ecksor wrote:

Q. I got banned. Should I explain to the admins that they are hampering
my freedom of speech?

A. No. The admins publish what you write and have powers of moderation
over it. You don't have freedom of speech on boards.ie apart from
what we choose to give to you. That may seem harsh or unfair but at
the end of the day we are responsible for what you write, and even if
we weren't we still have an interest in trying to maintain enough
order to ensure that everyone has the ability to politely put their
point of view across.

btw There's nothing to stop you reading the Lost forum - all you need to do is log out of boards and you can read it. You just can't post in it again.

sceptre

C_Breeze wrote:

maybe from my cousins in america? - that doesnt suggest downloads.

I dunno how many branches of the stupid tree you reckon some of us hit on the way down but er, yes it does. Actually, I've never interpreted it in any other way.

Asking "where can I get X" on a forum where discussion of where to get X is specifically disallowed in the charter, which of course you probably didn't bother reading, shouldn't lead to a great deal of surprise when you get banned for asking where you can get X. Now note precisely what I've said there rather than looking for a loophole around the larger net that is people talking about what they've already downloaded.

Turn off your computer, welcome back to every-five-years-democracy.

steveland?

Macros42 wrote:

btw There's nothing to stop you reading the Lost forum - all you need to do is log out of boards and you can read it. You just can't post in it again.

You don't even have to log out. If C_Breeze wants to view the forum (which he is perfectly entitled to do) go to http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=559 and replace the www with nologin or something, ie, http://nologin.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=559