Loan refusal (rant rant rant)

Savman

Hey
anyone know how the mighty banks approve (or in my case, continually decline) loan applications. Obviously its down to the amount requested, payment amount, salary etc but I've been bending over backwards trying to get car loan of €5k and I'm sick of getting the letters in the post saying "sorry to inform you blah blah blah" with no reason given.

My monthly outgoings are far less than 33% of my monthly salary and my bank a/c had almost HALF the amount I was trying to borrow.

What the **** do these banks do to decide who can have their precious loans and why are they so damn secretive about their "criteria".

I work my ass off, salary straight into account dont withdraw needless large cash sums and I'm another letter away from donning a ski mask and heading into my local BOI with a shotgun (hey, 0% interest:D )

Any thoughts/inside advice very welcome
Cheers

Angry man :mad:

BrianD

It might be a computer making the decision using preset criteria. Why not make an appointment to see your local branch manager and discuss it with him or her?

Kinetic^

BrianD wrote:

It might be a computer making the decision using preset criteria. Why not make an appointment to see your local branch manager and discuss it with him or her?

Definately do this.

Its the same with onlin mortgage calculators, they are designed to extra extra conservative with regards to loan workings.

The online mortgage calculator said I wouldn't be eligible for the place I wanted, went into them and got it, no problems.

Go into a PTSB, AIB and BOI and see what rates they offer as it doesn't have to be the bank you currently hold you account with.

leeroybrown

BrianD wrote:

It might be a computer making the decision using preset criteria. Why not make an appointment to see your local branch manager and discuss it with him or her?

Agreed. In the last two or three years most major banks have removed almost all direct lending discression from your local branch and placed it in the hands of a computer system (and specialist lending officers). While the lending officer, branch manager, sales officer or whatever your bank choses to call the person who will deal with you may not have the direct discression over the money they generally are in a position to push the application slightly more if they feel it is warranted.

LundiMardi

just go to a credit union.

Kersh

Try going into your bank. I went in to UB in swords, got 8k, no problem, paid that off, then got 20k. You need to meet the man who says yes or no...

Sponge Bob

Savman wrote:

Hey
anyone know how the mighty banks approve (or in my case, continually decline) loan applications. Obviously its down to the amount requested, payment amount, salary etc but I've been bending over backwards trying to get car loan of €5k and I'm sick of getting the letters in the post saying "sorry to inform you blah blah blah" with no reason given.

The Irish Credit Bureau may have black marks against you , it could have been as much as 5 years back. Read this explanation here.

What the **** do these banks do to decide who can have their precious loans and why are they so damn secretive about their "criteria".

Because computers cannot talk nicely .

Savman

Sponge Bob wrote:

The Irish Credit Bureau may have black marks against you , it could have been as much as 5 years back.

Why would that be? I got a credit report from them, nothing damaging, first loan paid back early and 2nd loan over 5 years only 1 payment in arrears. Sure that's not a "black mark"

It's very frustrating and I've complained to BOI who dont seem to give a toss, in fact their attitude stinks. Oddly enough BOI wouldnt give me a credit card yet MBNA are throwing them at me like there's no tomorrow.

I have to say I'm veru disillusioned by the whole process even if it is automated using computers, a HUMAN still programs this stuff in and all it has to do is say "Application Declined/Reason Code 293 court judgement etc etc" so at the very least I would know what the hell I'm doing wrong.

Granted I don't earn millions but I'm not exactly on the dole either and I easily cover all current direct debits including Quinn Direct, Sky TV etc

Seriously, whoever mentioned Credit Union, that might be my only option but I doubt my current falling apart car will last the 6 month initiation I need before taking 1st credit union loan.

Is there any decent banks left? Or are they all just a shower of bankers :mad:

boo4842

...computer says no....

*cough*

Sponge Bob

computer says no IS the problem,

why not complain to the data protection commissioner about your bank , see www.dataprivacy.ie and that they hold incorrect information on computer about you which prevents you from 'expresssing your creditworthyness' .

let the bank explain it to him and fix it

Culchie

It could be the repeated credit checks (from the different institutions) that is triggering the computer to reject your application.

Every time a credit check is made against your history, this comes up as a credit check on their system......Too many credit checks show up, and other institutions computers don't like that .... you can be made look 'flighty'.

Believe it or not, paying off your first loan early is also a negative ... mad as it seems.

Down to the bank or credit union is the best way to go, I can't see you have any bother if what you say is correct about your current slary status etc...

Savman

Sponge Bob wrote:

computer says no IS the problem,

why not complain to the data protection commissioner about your bank , see www.dataprivacy.ie and that they hold incorrect information on computer about you which prevents you from 'expresssing your creditworthyness' .

let the bank explain it to him and fix it

That would probably be a waste of my time just to pee off the bank...

dahamsta

Kersh wrote:

You need to meet the man who says yes or no...

No-one in the branch can approve or deny a loan any more. Although they can add a comment to an application in favour or against, the application itself is passed up the chain to the loans department.

adam

Cake Fiend

Ken Shabby wrote:

Although they can add a comment to an application in favour or against, the application itself is passed up the chain to the loans department.

That comment could make all the difference though - something that might look a little off on paper might look fine accompanied by a note from the manager saying he's met Mr. Soandso and all's well.

I got refused by two automated loan applications, then applied for one in person and got it no problem. After that, they were throwing money/loans at me

Sponge Bob

Culchie wrote:

It could be the repeated credit checks (from the different institutions) that is triggering the computer to reject your application.

Forgot about that . Persistent refusals mean that 'other' banks think 'your' bank 'knows' something they don't .

My brother , a solvent person of the highest order, decided to buy a beemer last year. He went to the bank for €€€ and they refused him.

Under pressure they said he did not have a credit history becuase he had not borrowed any money off any bank anywhere since the 1990s and had no repayment records to check against .

His cc and mortgage, paid in full every month, were not loans according to their scoring system. He then borrowed €2000 and paid it off in 2 monthly payments even though he had €5k cash in his account. The local branch could only approve €2000 .

Then he reapplied for the beemer loan and got his loan from the computer which had previously said 'no' The same bank would have upped his credit card limit so he could buy a beemer on it ....believe it or not .

Because he never borrowed he was refused by the computer , once he did and paid it off he was approved by the same computer.

Consider it to be the post millenial 'paradox of solvency' . Having no record is as bad as having a bad record.

Culchie

As well as the early repayment syndrome, here's another thing that happens.

Say you decide to shop around for a better credit card deal.

When institution A checks your credit history, it leaves a 'mark' against your file. You got you quote from A. You then ring credit card company B,C and D for comparitive quotes.
They all check your file, and leave a mark. 'D' is already starting to think 'hmmm'.
All they are on the file are 'marks' ... they don't say what the check was for.

Then after getting a new deal from your credit card company, and patting yourself on the back for saving a few quid on interest you decide to shop around for a better mortgage deal.
blah blah blah

Within a short period of time, while you were trying to save a few quid from your existing lenders, you have a whole heap of 'marks' against your file.
You are most probably 100% compliant, on the best credit card deal going, cleared balance every month best mortgage rate, no overdraft facility, no personal loans ....what a clever boy you are.

Then you decide to buy a new car (as OP) ... he asks for a loan, bank checks file and "Yikes, wtf are all these 'credit check marks' on his file for .... something dodgy going on here, I bet they are debt collectors" etc...

You just can't win can ya:o

seamus

Ken Shabby wrote:

No-one in the branch can approve or deny a loan any more. Although they can add a comment to an application in favour or against, the application itself is passed up the chain to the loans department.

Is that for certain types of applications? I rang 365online to get an extra €10k added to my motorloan and they just took some details and approved it immediately. 12 months previously I applied for the original motorloan online, and the next day the loan agreement papers arrived in the post. I was staggered by that one. I applied online on a Monday and had the cash in my account on Thursday afternoon.

As SpongeBob says, obviously it's better to be up to your ears in debt (though paying it off) than to be 100% solvent, if you want a loan.

dahamsta

seamus wrote:

Is that for certain types of applications? I rang 365online to get an extra €10k added to my motorloan and they just took some details and approved it immediately. 12 months previously I applied for the original motorloan online, and the next day the loan agreement papers arrived in the post. I was staggered by that one. I applied online on a Monday and had the cash in my account on Thursday afternoon.

Oh, they want to give you the money as soon as possible.... as long as they think they'll get it back. Most of these loans are preapproved. My girlfriend's 365Online account has a big "YOU ARE PREAPPROVED" message on her account permanently.

adam

seamus

Ken Shabby wrote:

Oh, they want to give you the money as soon as possible.... as long as they think they'll get it back. Most of these loans are preapproved. My girlfriend's 365Online account has a big "YOU ARE PREAPPROVED" message on her account permanently.

adam

Heh, yeah me too. I've often been tempted to avail of my preapproved overdraft when my reserves are running low

Savman

Ken Shabby wrote:

Most of these loans are preapproved.

So very true. So I'll just keep driving my car to death waiting for the day I walk into my BOI and the clerk mentions I've been "pre-approved" for their financial product. At which time I decline, removing aforementioned shotgun....:p

Savman

seamus wrote:

Heh, yeah me too. I've often been tempted to avail of my preapproved overdraft when my reserves are running low

Overdrafts ****ing overdrafts. Who came up with that idea anyway? They really are the worst of the worst, I fell into that trap of a "pre-approved €600 overdraft". For the 14 months following my stoopid acceptance, my account balance steadied at €600OD without fail.

Avoid at all costs.

Sponge Bob

Savman wrote:

Overdrafts ****ing overdrafts.

Avoid at all costs.

I don't even have a current account , my 'overdraft' is handled personally by Sponge Bob Finance Inc thru a credit card that must be paid in full within 56 days max so the bank can only offer me term loans when they wanna hook me

You would be amazed at the number of suggestions I get about changing my account to current in the bank. Then I say 'why' and that usually shuts them up .

jhegarty

Savman wrote:

2nd loan over 5 years only 1 payment in arrears

the computer might see that as a problem, when a person wouldn't see it as an issue....

Savman

jhegarty wrote:

the computer might see that as a problem, when a person wouldn't see it as an issue....

jeebus is that the way things are going? The Computer likes this...The Computer doesn't like that....ooh gotta impress The Computer...:mad:

Feels like I'm in Terminator 2

ionapaul

Wow, learned a lot of things about the Irish personal financial system in this thread! I must not have much of a credit history, as I've never loaned so much as a euro from the banks or building societies here (a few small loans from the credit union when I was a teenager many years ago), no mortgage, pay the credit card off in full each month, and yet I get offered loans of €15,000+ from BOI all the time? Strange. The only thing I can imagine is they see the figures that move back and forth from my current account to my other savings and brokerage accounts and make the offer based on that?

Sponge Bob

ionapaul wrote:

I must not have much of a credit history, as I've never loaned so much as a euro from the banks or building societies here (a few small loans from the credit union when I was a teenager many years ago), no mortgage, pay the credit card off in full each month, and yet I get offered loans of €15,000+ from BOI all the time? Strange.

Ahhhhhhh but the scoring is determined by the computer which will NOT check with the Credit Bureau (ICB) unless you actually APPLY for a loan and may then reject you because the fields are all emm ummm blank. Therefore you know not what will happen till you ask the computer, I wager a no. Then you get into faffle like how long have you been in the state, can you prove that ? Thats because you did not dignify the ICB with a mortgage application which establishes residency in the state you solvent person you .

If pre approval meant credit check first the fecking database would be marked to bejaysus with checks and no actual loans, You saw above what would happen then . The check is post actual application .

Therefore you have no idea if you can get a loan and probably can not.

Get an overdraft within the branch 'counter limit' to prove you exist Then do this overdraft every 4.99 years, pay off in full after one month and you have a status check/loan/payment met/loan cleared marked duly all in one go . Its a 'make sure you can actually borrow if you need to ' sort of measure but thats how it works.

the sum total of the loan is not logged on the ICB .

That is the ' paradox of solvency ' for you my friend

ionapaul

Aha. I actually wasn't a resident of the state for about 5 years in my early to mid twenties so that blows a hole in the credit history again! But I would have taught BOI and their computers would automatically recognise I am a 'poor' customer from a future profit point of view when analysing my current account history, income outstripping expenditure and never a need to borrow money, and thus not to bother sending a pre-approved letter and offering me a loan while dealing with them over the phone or at a teller in-branch?

Or do they analyse each customer's current account right down to salary details and regular expenditure, thus estimating the amount one could repay each month and offering a loan based on that amount? An interesting situation if they would not offer a mortgage to someone who could show years of monthly saving above and beyond the mortage repayments and no need for further loans, the poor schmuck would suffer for the cardinal sin of living below his means, a sure way to long term financial health IMHO!

Culchie

Obviously Paul, with a good salary etc...not to mention your extra curricula income;) this things all count in an applicants favour, as will age, future earning capacity and lenght of time with bank.

All that has been stated above is true regarding credit checks and 'marks' against customer files.

A mortgage application is different, in that the property is a security.

The above thread is (granted) far more relevant to unsecured loans, and also more relevant to asset neutral younger applicants.

ronbyrne2005

get a parent to go garuntor,i was in college and got a 6grand loan without having any income! my mother signed a letter garunteeing she would cover the loan if i didnt pay so there was no risk and they couldnt refuse me,actually they gave me another 3k a year later as i was paying loan off on time every month.

Savman

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

my mother signed a letter garunteeing she would cover the loan if i didnt pay so there was no risk

:eek:
somehow this isn't an option for me....:D

Sponge Bob

Culchie wrote:

All that has been stated above is true regarding credit checks and 'marks' against customer files.

A mortgage application is different, in that the property is a security.

There is another subtle importance to having a mortgage (as distinct from owning outright) . Banks will lend more easily to a non customer ....say you ring around for a car loan and haggle) if the non customer has a mortgage on the go.

If computer finds mortgage paid monthly on the credit check computer is happier in a fuzzy sort of way.