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Broadband Providers Poll

  • 05-01-2006 8:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭


    Only vote for providers you have current personal experience of using, so it gives as fair a snapshot as is possible of the current state of services.

    Any I've missed, suggest them in here and they'll get added.

    Broadband Providers Poll 543 votes

    I have BT and am happy
    0%
    I have BT and am NOT happy
    14%
    meglomeSpunog UIEKazujoZombrexjrdDSScrufffusepeckerheadCabaalJohnny_191Creamy GoodnessKrusty_ClownChad ghostalLafortezzaGangstaRobertFosterjor elNyum NyumOfflerCrocGod 80 votes
    I have Clearwire and am happy
    3%
    ^whitey^mufflerdemacgreglo23fixxationKhannieZynksjunglecliffshuushhNorfork Nightsvalidis_Mr K(SoulCandy)federerfanshaneoslolo2HoolieWolfy100CamGirlSapeleK-Fella 21 votes
    I have Clearwire and am NOT happy
    0%
    decbuck 1 vote
    I have Digiweb METRO and am happy
    2%
    IsadoreLudostakeyBlaster99slinkySpoonOgDamoVOTFmusiknonstopexyteVictor McDadeJelly 292 11 votes
    I have Digiweb METRO and am NOT happy
    2%
    meglomeMoriartykaimerawattystimpsongirldefjoePCWastedriceySparkyAirblazerHughesyFarcearDannyBZR 14 votes
    I have Digiweb (other) and am happy
    0%
    blobertAdey2002TheGreatestGarryowenphiloreilly 5 votes
    I have Digiweb (other) and am NOT happy
    2%
    The Clown ManCivilServantksl19ChazSztraikSmurphylucernarianRuathaFenianRoviis_that_sohawker27ghostdancergrizi 14 votes
    I have eircom and am happy
    1%
    TalideonGlennaMaddyAkulaStorm106[Deleted User]madser77 6 votes
    I have eircom and am NOT happy
    14%
    SickBoyYuMmewsobytepbirneyGooseyFatBKdjaCLbyrnenjtuxyklingklangjonskinetwhizkidainiseoirGrayareaStench Blossomsgod's toyprojectmayhemSkittledavybaby40 78 votes
    I have Imagine and am happy
    4%
    Balmarkbilly the squidChinafootRapierXgarthvSajanwheels of irepedrojsteveland?FlintyTerryTeamhair4redDedalus05unityofsaintsFNH[Deleted User]AgamemnonDermingtonbluto63 27 votes
    I have Imagine and am NOT happy
    0%
    Sir Randomargolis 2 votes
    I have IrishBroadBand (IBB) and am happy
    0%
    cian01 1 vote
    I have IrishBroadBand (IBB) and am NOT happy
    4%
    ConUladhVulturepmcgrathfeylyaStickyMcGintyEireRoadUserneilmBigMooseetherrichardodanmclhappy_acid_faceHighlyCooLbravbubonicuscbmkid07novarockirlrobinsVinneyboysisyphus 26 votes
    I have Magnet and am happy
    8%
    meglomeBoroCuLTRekcaHjoolsveerStarkMarconijohncorleoneNevynJilmsionnachcormac_byrnecranooSean^DCT4Cionnplastic_axevinksblobertpeterqBlaster99 46 votes
    I have Magnet and am NOT happy
    1%
    johncorleonecormac_byrneRaoul Dukezimbabadyrosertgdub_mk_iii 6 votes
    I have Netsource and am happy
    0%
    Lookout 1 vote
    I have Netsource and am NOT happy
    1%
    satchmodazberryShamoJohnK9livessharkmanRo: maaan!WillieFlynnrandomname 9 votes
    I have NTL and am happy
    0%
    Blut 1 vote
    I have NTL and am NOT happy
    13%
    TinCoolmicosavored_icemeglomeSerbianLegionSimonMaherasmitheoineenCouch PotatounkelMarVeLbkThe Smircherjabberwockokcomputerliviahuggs2feylyaandrew163 76 votes
    I have Smart and am happy
    0%
    ambro25PixelTrawler 2 votes
    I have Smart and am NOT happy
    4%
    LoBojaariusMountjoy MuggeropusdigitaldrMrBdub45chabseyedantoBlub2k4ArdentPyr0troylardboypizzahead77Anarchistmuckwarriorbingo9999Gary ITRMOH 26 votes
    I have UTV and am happy
    0%
    aniascordonegalman1 2 votes
    I have UTV and am NOT happy
    3%
    ZascarDrag00n79Ro-76The MuppetSkyusercullenswoodbarlowleche solaraprospecttomsavmitchiefizzfdevineblink496TronixMad DogSimon201jonohySandwich 18 votes
    I have another provider (please specify) and am happy
    3%
    OSiriSStephenMoriartyLoBoStarkleeroybrownLionheartmrblooandrew163homerzerothe_vickpatchrickmiragemobileplazaPooh-BearVmaxerda4i'sclassicsounds 18 votes
    I have another provider (please specify) and am NOT happy
    1%
    nilhgPoz3Dtechiedkanebigpaddy2004Seanie MRuffty^higsterPappacharliedolanp 10 votes
    I want broadband but can't get it because I fail the line test/exchange not enabled/out of range
    1%
    ai ingAntiRipDeroAdey2002PingpongFSLganeagla 7 votes
    Atari Jaguar
    6%
    Slaaneshmayhem#kaimeratimeoutshinobiniallbPoolBalltommycahirlimpddNeoRoxeskepfrenchThe Real B-mandellyquad_redRoviBleakestHSirIrishdjmarkusSponge Bob 35 votes


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭Couch Potato


    I have NTL and am NOT happy
    what about ntl ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭skibum


    I have BT and am NOT happy
    Currently with BT and have no complaints. just found out that NTL is available in my area so I'll be checking them out ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭Moriarty


    I have another provider (please specify) and am happy
    Right, poll done I think. Am I missing any obvious ones?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    Atari Jaguar
    I voted for 2 items- 'I have Digiweb (other) and am happy' and 'I want broadband but can't get it because I fail the line test/exchange not enabled/out of range.'
    I'm on a Digiweb satellite connection which I'm happy with as far as it goes, but I have yet to find a provider who can connect me up with any other technology :(

    There's a HUGE fibre link about 50 meters from my house, anyone know of a way I could tap into that? :D

    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I have NTL and am NOT happy
    NTL and they are the bombay!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,918 ✭✭✭Steffano2002


    I have Magnet and am happy
    Yeah well, IBB... Nuff said...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    I have IrishBroadBand (IBB) and am NOT happy
    Yeah well, IBB... Nuff said...
    hah,
    theyre alright ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,918 ✭✭✭Steffano2002


    I have Magnet and am happy
    subway wrote:
    hah,
    theyre alright ;)
    We'll see on Tuesday when I'm migrated to new mast! Fingers crossed!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,333 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I have Clearwire and am happy
    Moriarty wrote:
    Only vote for providers you have current personal experience of using, so it gives as fair a snapshot as is possible of the current state of services.

    Any I've missed, suggest them in here and they'll get added.
    Im not sure if this poll in its present format will paint a true picture of the situation.

    A lot of people like myself have only the choice between Eircom and BT unless we were foolish enough to opt for wireless.

    Could you not break it down into city/rural catagories or something like that. I see that NTL are in the lead in this poll with IBB in joint 3rd but both of those services are not available where I and a lot of other people live


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,231 ✭✭✭✭Sparky


    I have Magnet and am happy
    Does anyone Use E3 broadband, you know the one electroplus provides?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭J2DaC


    I have eircom and am NOT happy
    What about magnet networks? There new but seem very good!

    EDIT:::::::
    Sorry, just seen it in the list. Im thinking of getting it, whats it like?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭raheny red


    I have IrishBroadBand (IBB) and am NOT happy
    I have IrishBroadBand (IBB) and am VERY happy :):):):)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭Rudolph Claus


    Im thinking of getting Net1 wireless as i live in the sticks and its my only option. Digiweb cant get me.
    Can you add Net1 to your list in case anyone wants to pick them and i can look at their results i nthe poll. Thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭ghostdancer


    I have Digiweb (other) and am NOT happy
    Digiweb (other) - very happy :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,787 ✭✭✭prospect


    I have UTV and am NOT happy
    Moriarty wrote:
    Only vote for providers you have current personal experience of using, so it gives as fair a snapshot as is possible of the current state of services.

    Any I've missed, suggest them in here and they'll get added.

    Oi,

    I had a copyright on that poll.....:D

    ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭Moriarty


    I have another provider (please specify) and am happy
    Stickying this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭god's toy


    I have eircom and am NOT happy
    what a good poll, gives us all in insight to how green the grass really is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,231 ✭✭✭✭Sparky


    I have Magnet and am happy
    Moriarty wrote:
    Stickying this.

    Did you forget to tick the "Stick this thread after you submit your message" box?
    :D


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    I have Smart and am NOT happy
    It might be interesting to also do a poll on the other aspects of isps apart from the signal side? The most glaring example might be Esat who seem to give an excellent signal consistently but are disastrous for many customers on the billing, losing application forms etc. It would probably be a difficult poll to structure I know but these aspects of the product are important and worth a look every now and then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Legion


    I have NTL and am NOT happy
    Have both NTL and Smart very happy with both conns,Pyr0 uses the Smart connection so I 'll get him to pop up a vote.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Pyr0


    I have Smart and am NOT happy
    Yeah..Smart = excellent :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,236 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    I have BT and am NOT happy
    I've BT and they've generally been fine. It all went titsupdotcom during and a few weeks after the last upgrade and it took a while to be sorted. I'll let you know if I'm still happy with BT after the next upgrade ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,333 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I have Clearwire and am happy
    dub45 wrote:
    It might be interesting to also do a poll on the other aspects of isps.......... The most glaring example might be Esat who seem to give an excellent signal consistently but are disastrous for many customers on the billing, losing application forms etc.
    Damn good idea


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭Moriarty


    I have another provider (please specify) and am happy
    Sparky-s wrote:
    Did you forget to tick the "Stick this thread after you submit your message" box?
    :D

    >_>

    <_<

    I don't know what you're talking about. *cough*

    Aye dub45, I'll have a think about how best to put something like that together.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,231 ✭✭✭✭Sparky


    I have Magnet and am happy
    Moriarty wrote:
    >_>

    <_<

    I don't know what you're talking about. *cough*

    yeah LOL :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭Brian017


    I have eircom and am NOT happy
    I have Eircom and I find it ok. It's not good and it's not bad. Just ok. The main reason I moved to BB was to have an "always-on" connection and to have a flat fee (phone bill was enormous) and not for its speed and whatnot. So I can't complain about Eircom.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,484 ✭✭✭✭Stephen


    I have another provider (please specify) and am happy
    I'd be happy with UTV if it wasn't for 2 points:
    1) Ridiculously low caps (8gb on the 1mb product)
    2) Very strict enforcement of said caps

    I would have switched ISP's long ago, if eircom's incompentence wasn't preventing me - All other ISP's claim that eircom's line test says my line is unsuitable for BB - despite having it for 2 years, and getting the full 1mbps. Fortunately for UTV they've recently got a link into INEX (AT BLOODY LAST!!) so pings in games have dropped drastically. Eircom's only suggestion to remedy this is to cancel my connection, wait about a month, sign up to another ISP and endure their lead time. Total down time, approximately 2 months at best. **** that.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,720 Mod ✭✭✭✭delly


    Atari Jaguar
    Up until recently i thought that i had the choice of Digiweb or IBB.

    It actually turns out that Digiweb are waiting to put up a new transmitter and according to the IBB coverage map, half the estate is covered, but my half isn't. The funny thing was though that the rep was willing to take my order based on the theory that it'll 'probably' work on the day after they mount it. Thanks but i'd like to know in advance before i have it clamped to my house.

    When the rep rang me back to see if i wanted to go ahead with the order, i told him no because of all the bad stories they have on Irish forums. He then said, and this is no word of a lie, that when they get reports of bad coverage, theres usually a load of trees in the way, and all they have to do is get permission to cut the trees down :v: :v: :v:

    I was laughing for quite a while after that call :D


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    I have Smart and am NOT happy
    Stephen wrote:
    I'd be happy with UTV if it wasn't for 2 points:
    1) Ridiculously low caps (8gb on the 1mb product)
    2) Very strict enforcement of said caps

    I would have switched ISP's long ago, if eircom's incompentence wasn't preventing me - All other ISP's claim that eircom's line test says my line is unsuitable for BB - despite having it for 2 years, and getting the full 1mbps. Fortunately for UTV they've recently got a link into INEX (AT BLOODY LAST!!) so pings in games have dropped drastically. Eircom's only suggestion to remedy this is to cancel my connection, wait about a month, sign up to another ISP and endure their lead time. Total down time, approximately 2 months at best. **** that.


    Most people who have bb find that their line now failts the line test. If you want to transfer to another isp it is only a matter of a 'port transfer' thats not the right term I know but supposedly if you initiate it with the isp you want to go to it can be done without interruption. there have been posts on here about it from time to time but there seems to be a lot of luck involved.
    Eircom's suggestion is nonsense.


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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    I have Smart and am NOT happy
    delly wrote:
    coverage, theres usually a load of trees in the way, and all they have to do is get permission to cut the trees down :v: :v: :v:

    I was laughing for quite a while after that call :D

    Very interesting - so do they this sort of work themselves or do they contract it out? Anyone spotted any ads lately for IBB lumberjacks?:rolleyes:

    We really should have a poll for the daftest excuse given out by an ISP?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    I have BT and am NOT happy
    Hmm, could have sworn I'd voted on this poll already. {o_O}

    Anyway, happy enough with EsatBT, dl-speeds/pings are fine and consistant, uptime has been exceptional (aside from some serious teething problems >1 year ago)... my only remaining bone of contention is that they're next to impossible to contact... even when you want to pay a missed bill over the phone by credit card you'd be left sitting there on hold for 20 mins... and God help you if you've got a support query or complaint.
    They're on thin ice with me still though, it'd only take another prolonged network b0rkage for me to cancel tbh... that reliability is about the only thing they've got going for them at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭bluto63


    I have Imagine and am happy
    i have eircom and am NOT happy


  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭hawthorn


    What about Lastmile? havent seen them mentioned at all. Im thinking of trying them as I cant get anything by phone line. They have a mast on a mountain near me!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Seanie M


    I have another provider (please specify) and am NOT happy
    Currently a Last Mile subscriber. On a 512K connection for €40. If I was to get their 1Mb connection, I'd be looking at €120 per month, which is ridiculous!!!

    So, as it stands, I am happy with their level of service, but unhappy with the fact that I can't terminate my 12 month contract with them, and go for a cheaper 1Mb+ onnection with Digiweb or Eircom.

    Seanie.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Seanie M


    I have another provider (please specify) and am NOT happy
    hawthorn wrote:
    What about Lastmile? havent seen them mentioned at all. Im thinking of trying them as I cant get anything by phone line. They have a mast on a mountain near me!

    Where are you based? When I was looking for BB where I am, the only provider was Last Mile Wireless. Now the exchange has been upgraded, and rather unexpectedly too, so I can now have an option of a higher BB rate that is also cheaper. But the 12 month contract makes me liable to pay for the remainding months should I terminte with Last Mile... :mad:

    Seanie.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 216 ✭✭gogul


    Anybody using this, or heard anything about it?

    I'm applying for business broadband: 4Mb download, no cap. Any suggestions?

    gogul


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jonski


    I have eircom and am NOT happy
    I have obviously been reading this poll wrong , I check it maybe once a week , just to see where the figures are at . I thought all along that I had seen a small number of people unhappy with NTL , but overall they seemed to have the highest number happy with them . Then I look today and they seem to have no one unhappy ............. did something go wrong with the poll , or did I mis-read it .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭IT Loser


    Here's the trick as I see it: I've read little in the line of complaints about Eirocom that weren't centered around the Regulations/Monopoly end of things. Somebody show me a thread where Eircom is lambasted for providing a grossly [technically speaking] inferior service....

    Now, apples and apples. Eircom charge €40 per month for their 2 GIG version of events, so to speak. BT charge €30 for the same thing- but Eircom throw in a free wireless [Netopia WiFi] modem and free connection [where you sign up online]

    Thats a saving of €70-00, a considerable lump, if we assume that Eircoms service is as technically proficient as that of BT.

    Now, Eircom want an extra tenner a month, and the contract is a 6 month minimum. So you still save a tenner and switch over to BT or whoever in 6 months if the mood takes ya. The sting in the tail of all this is that you're still 200 bob or so ahead [10 Euros = 200 Shillings...get with it lads] and you've avoided having to pay the €70 up front and in-lump as BT would like.

    Like I said- argument rests on whether Eircom dick you around or don't on the quality of the service. A big if , says you.

    My tuppence worth [.4 of a shilling, .02 of a punt, and .0158 of a Euro.]


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I have NTL and am NOT happy
    IT Loser wrote:
    Now, apples and apples. Eircom charge €40 per month for their 2 GIG version of events, so to speak. BT charge €30 for the same thing- but Eircom throw in a free wireless [Netopia WiFi] modem and free connection [where you sign up online]

    Your comparison is wrong, it doesn't include line rental:

    BT 2m + Line Rental = €40
    Eircom 2m + Line Rental = €64

    Over a 6 months contract BT works out at €144 cheaper (you could buy three wireless routers for that difference). Over 12 months BT works out at €288 cheaper.

    BT will give you a free connection if you supply your own modem. Which will pay for itself after just 3 months anyway.

    Technically speaking, both services are excellent, with little or no problems other then the problems caused by the bad state of Eircoms network.

    BT does have porblems with its billing department, but they are far cheaper then Eircom.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭IT Loser


    Ok then fair enough. The way BT are telling it to me now is that if I pay them €80 in cash they'll connect me and throw in a wireless Router [the two in one job] and then for €60 per month I'll get Talk Plus, 3Meg Down Broadband [something insane in terms of DL limits] and line rental. Neat.



    ..........20 minutes later

    Just spoke to a BT representative who called me back and the deal we signed up to is:

    3 Meg Download Speed Broadband 30 Gigs Per Month limit [Dowload Only]

    Phone Line Rental

    Talk Plus Option {free calls abound, so I've not factored in the odd international call}

    All IN: €64.82 per month

    My first bill is going to be: €129.60 + €40 once off connection + €40 [Wireless Router} = €210

    Every other bill €130 every 2nd month.

    In effect, my first 4 months of telephony and internet will set me back €340, the next 4 will be 260 and the next 4 260 again.

    So for 1 year of goodies, a grand total of €860.

    No complaints here


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  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭ConUladh


    I have IrishBroadBand (IBB) and am NOT happy
    IBB Ripwave and very happy, for me it does just what it says on the tin.
    :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 197 ✭✭Pappacharlie


    I have another provider (please specify) and am NOT happy
    I have a connection with WestNet and I must say it is an excellent service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭FSL


    I want broadband but can't get it because I fail the line test/exchange not enabled/out of range
    There does not appear to be anywhere to specify the provider in the Poll. I have wireless broadband from DigitalForge. It would seem DigitalForge supply the wireless network which connects to an unspecified ISP. The wireless part works fine but the service from the ISP is inconsistent particularly on the upload side, with long pauses which give rise to timeouts when connecting. This makes it impossible to consistently use my VOIP service which varies from being perfect one minute and ten minutes later being unable to connect or fine coming in and rubbish going out. Unfortunately the only alternative is dial up on a poor quality eircom line.


  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Feu


    bk wrote:
    Your comparison is wrong, it doesn't include line rental:

    BT 2m + Line Rental = €40
    Eircom 2m + Line Rental = €64

    Over a 6 months contract BT works out at €144 cheaper (you could buy three wireless routers for that difference). Over 12 months BT works out at €288 cheaper.
    .


    I've just been on the phone to the nice lady in Eircom, and in addtion to the outlined charges above, if you have Eircom Phonewatch - the alarm, then the technician is going to have to come out and tweak that for you, before they can set up the broadband. Free of charge? As me b**locks. €89. Aaargh!


  • Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭da4i's


    I have another provider (please specify) and am happy
    I have UTV and am not happy because of the low caps and low speeds wer as u can pay the same as what i am paying, 30 euro, and get 2mbps off BT with a 20 gig cap... (am i correct??)

    Dave


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭homerzero


    I have another provider (please specify) and am happy
    I have utv and i am now very happy , for 6 yoyos more the service is now uncapped , provided you dont horse it between 6pm and 11pm ( they throttle your speed if you do) you are free to download what you want


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭antifuse


    I have Imagine and am happy
    Has anybody had Eircom enforce download limits on their accounts? I have heard that they don't bother, even though they say there is a limit of 8 gb (or whatever) on their broadband accounts.

    Having said all this, I'm shocked at the prices of broadband here. Coming over from Toronto, where I was paying about 35 euro all-in for 5mbit, it's a bit of a shock being here and paying as much as we do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭tonymahoney


    I have eircom and am NOT happy
    How about this question in your poll?
    I have broadband but am thinkjing of switching provider!:cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Gangsta


    I have BT and am NOT happy
    Does anyone have Irish Broadband in Galway? If so, what is their service like? Am moving to Toreeny, Moycullen soon and afaik there the only one providing bb there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,744 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    I have BT and am NOT happy
    Shouldn't these percentages be reconfigured?
    For example BT: 79 for, 21 against. Should the percentage not reflect the proportion of happy and unhappy customers.. ie: 79% Happy - 21% unhappy?


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