Multi-discipline inter-club shoot for Charity

PP1

I Think its agreat ida to have a Large meeting of all differient types of shooting disiplins to be carried out on the ranges of the M.N.S.C.I. Ranges for a worthy cause such as a Charity.A National event like this woould be excellent PR for shooting and charity.
Les45 you are right about the MNSCI authorisations ,one of the things they dont have is an authorisation for Club Pistols in fullbore but are getting one for a few .22 pistols.MNSCI will have to settle for that at the moment.Iam not saying there is anything wrong with .22 pistols, they are good fun to shoot and are equally as challenging as centerfire pistols without the knockdown power and bigger bang.
Personally Iwould like to see such an event to happen and be successful. Upto nowon the grounds fo the MNSCI there have been many charity shoots that i am aware of,shot with fullbore ,shotgun ,and .22rifle (it been the most popular).Why not have all these along with pistols and make a charity shoot using all four disiplens in one day one the one range.
I have made enquiries about this with one of the Range Officers on the MNSCI and he reckons it would probaly be better at a National event like this that only licenced pistol holders compete in this evewnt for obvious reasons,''SAFETY'' which is Paramount,
Maybe our Friends in N.Ireland (NITSC.IPSA.) would and most likely will help out in such an event for the same charity on there range prior to the shoot on the MNSCI and with the funds raised add it to the charity fund on the MNSCI and with all the clubs and Associations etc,could gather for one big ptoto with one of thoes big cheques showing everyone how much was raised by all the shooters in Ireland for a worthy cause,by doing this the credit would be shared evenly.
I for one would and will give this my full committment for this to be a success. Please give this idea some though, after all it is for charity.

Sparks

Seems there's a lot more charity work being done by target shooting clubs than most people know about.

Of course, sometimes you get to be more dignified about it than others...


(Still though, that one raised around €1,800 for the Children's Hospital)

cantona

Dont forget that the bigger this event gets, the more problems it generates.For example the Grand Prix idea means that every club and association that gets involved must now plan all their activities well in advance and with regard to everyone else.This is necessary so as not to have conflicting events on at the same time.Can all clubs, at the moment, be sure of their commitments over the next 6-8 months?

Sparks

Therein lies the weakness of the idea cantona. Each club would only have to plan one weekend, but the shooters would have to go to all weekends. Unless we allowed teams to vary, but that could be abused with the "pinch hitter" approach. And hosting the entire event on one day in one range means that everyone's so busy running from event to event and so tired at day's end, that the social side is lost completely.
*sigh*
Not a trivial problem in logistics, this.

civdef

This match is after suffering "mission creep" in a most dramatric fashion!

It has gone from an ego match between Sparks and Les45 into Liveaid!

Might be an idea to start small, assess feasibility and move on from there....

Sparks

civdef wrote:

Might be an idea to start small, assess feasibility and move on from there....

Nonsense. Just give us your f***ing money, allright?

PP1

The only weakness in this idea is in the commitment from the shooters. Drop the egos lads.The range is there to run this, the people are there to do this properly.This is for charity not for credit.

Sparks

Committment from shooters over a range of several matches isn't necessarily about ego PP1. For example, if you arranged this and had it all running for Feb 18/19, you just wouldn't get any NTSA shooters because all the WTSC shooters are going to Bisley and have been training for it for months, and the other NTSA shooters will be in UCD for their open. Likewise there will be other bad dates for other shooters. And if you're going to pick several weekends in a row... well, it gets difficult to find good dates. Remember, serious shooters will be in long term training programmes as well as having local matches to take care of and other committments as well!

skellig

Loss of social side , local matches , other commitments ,serious shooters, pistol only, tournaments, weekends of shooting , preperations , lots of training etc.
The list goes on,I find all this a bit on the negative side towards running a simple shoot for charity.

Lets just simplify all this!!

---Take a look at all calender of Shooting events so as not to clash with popular events (club, nationally , internationaly)

---Other events such as soccer , GAA ,other popular sports,("mothers Day" believe it or not)
Come on Lads surely there is one Sunday in 2006 that will be suitable. In regard to the serious shooters surely one day of shooting for Charity can be arranged and even if they cant make it this wouldnt be a big financial loss as the National association shoots under the S.S.A.I dont have a lot competing in them. To be honest only a minority of shooters actually compete in National or International Shoots.

My experiences of shooting at Charity Events on the M.N.S.C.I were great crack, nobody takes it serious ,its just a fun shoot for a particular good cause. Its only happened on one occasion at a local charity event where the majority of shooters were non target shooters. All the shooters taking part used Club Rifles and the same Ammo. Unfortunately there was one "serious" target shooter who refused to use a club rifle and Ammo. He used a Target Rifle and his own Ammo and the obvious happened the big hero won,so maybe with this type of Charity shoot we could have a serious section also if it suits.

Charity Shoots are so easy to run especially in this type of event where the majority of shooters are experienced

You dont have to enter every competition on the day either and if you cant make it just send on your entry fee anyhow. Ive seen this done in all the Charity Shoots. Think about it its not about winning or for fun ; only about making money and anything after that is just a bonus.


Lets fix a date and gather a large meeting its as simple as that. Anyone that that has witnessed it in the Midlands will verify that.

What do you think???

PS (corrections pp1 )the I.P.S.A as you stated do not belong to Northern Ireland only. It was formed and financed by the lads in Northern Ireland for both the North and the Republic . I.P.S.A home ground is in Newry and they are the N.G.B for practical pistol

Gun Shy

Various matches held over different weekends would not be suitable to all, for a lot of the reasons Sparks has put up and also from my own personal point by having to work every second weekend, having a one year old at home and the BOSS to contend with.

Really like the principal of an inter club shoot but until we have one range that can meet all the requirements ie centrefire, air etc as club pistols then it will have to be split.

Part of the challenge is (and was never EGO) allowing fellow shooters take part in a style of shooting that they havent tried to before or are unable to do so because of legal requirements and fostering a greater and better understanding between our closest relatives!!!!!!!!!! and hopefully blood will be thicker than water if it ever comes time to circle the wagons. The other parts being the Charity and the Good PR.

Yes I do think it is being turned into Live Aid and although a great idea its too soon and too complicated to run just yet lets come back to it when we can run it on one Range

At present (Please correct me) the only range that I know of that has club pistols (Fullbore) is Newry so that has to be choice number one.

Open to further suggestions on format etc.

Thoughts anyone

Gun Shy

skellig wrote:

PS (corrections pp1 )the I.P.S.A as you stated do not belong to Northern Ireland only. It was formed and financed by the lads in Northern Ireland for both the North and the Republic . I.P.S.A home ground is in Newry and they are the N.G.B for practical pistol

IPSA was formed as the NGB for PP in Southern Ireland and is recognised as such by IPSC in Canada

IPSA is totally independant from Northern Ireland and the UKPSA and likewise NITSA

IPSA would probably not be here but for the Help, Guidance and support of NITSA and we welcome their continued support and are grateful for this , but the lads in Northern Ireland did not finance the formation of IPSA.

IPSA was formed by members of NITSA who were from the south and it was initially financed out of their own pockets as the membership has grown most of these expences have been repaid (NOT ALL) ie affiliation fees to Canada $600 etc

Membership is open to both North and South and it is roughly an even split with roughly 40 from each side of the border.

IPSA is Southern Ireland based and is open to offers as to the location of a home range as we have no home range at present.

IPSA Homepage http://www.ipsc-ireland.org/
IPSA Newsletter check it out on the News Page

Some others might want to join in

Sparks

It is getting a bit too complicated to start from allright!

Okay, so let's take this one step at a time. First off, let's drop air rifle - it would be too difficult to get everyone kitted out and the rifles customised to each shooter. Air pistol, fullbore pistol, and perhaps shotgun if the timing allows - each of those three can be shot without enormous amounts of customisation. No reason we can't have another match later with more events, but let's just try it with this and see how it goes.

Suggestions for dates? Ideally, we'd want a bank holiday weekend I'd think. If that's not possible, we'll just pick a normal weekend and drop shotgun Has to be after Feb 19 or WTSC can't attend Any other constraints?

les45

June Bank Holiday Weekend, Saturday Full Bore Pistol, Sunday Air Pistol!

Sparks

Looks good from here les. Nothing on that weekend for us (well, the Milan World Cup, but no-one's in training for that now, so it's too late already if they wanted to go). Plus, it's far enough out to get some training in between then and now in shooting these pistol thingies
So,

Sat June 3 : Fullbore pistol, Newry
Sun June 4 : ISSF Air pistol, Wilkinstown
Mon June 5 : Shotgun, Courtlough (to be confirmed with our man in courtlough)
Monday Night : Dinner & Presentation of daft prizes somewhere.

Say 30 rounds in each course of fire? That should be long enough to get a bit of a points spread but short enough not to destroy anyone who's not used to the discipline.

les45

Sounds good, and again 30 Rounds is fair to all. It should be great fun for all involved. Teams of 6 best 4 scores to count!

Sparks

Teams of six sounds fine as well. We might even get two teams to enter if we're lucky. Say €30 per head entry fee, all proceeds to the charity of choice of the overall winning team (decided by aggregate gunscore?), all entries to be sorted out a few days ahead of time so someone can go do PR stuff with the papers (bank holiday weekends are dead time for news cycles usually for some reason).

About the scoring - ISSF AP targets are scored from 0 to 10 points. How are your bullseye targets scored? And for the clays, how many points per clay?

Course of fire for the ISSF AP would be:
2 sighting cards, as many sighters as you want;
15 competition cards, two shots per card;

10 mins preperation time prior to the published start time - no air may be discharged but you may dry-fire the pistol;
1 hour total time for the 30 shots (this works out at 15 mins for sighting and 90 seconds per competition shot most of the time);

(The ISSF AP rules are here if anyone's interested)

skellig

MMM A Range to run it on, mmm let me see Gun Shy. At the moment id say the M.N.S.C.I Ranges,fair enough there isnt another range in the Country to match it so why not where its most possible to happen!!
Live Aid? I had no problem with that event it certainly raised a lot of money for those in need.

I understand your valid reasons for in wanting new people in this great sport but it doesnt have to be their first time in a charity event. It can be anytime in Newry or even other ranges in Northern Ireland. Surely you must agree that to turn your back on a possible way to raise a lot of money just because a handful of people without pistols cant partcipate,---sorry this is not a valid reason to split from it Gun Shy!!

Think positive maybe the local superintendent might give a one day authorisation for such an event,if so would you consider the M.N.S.C.I a venue for such an event? Of course you would have to agree that it wouldnt be possible for first time pistol shooters to shot practical pstol with movement etc. It would have to be bullseye shooting with one shooter to one range officer only.

Like you I too am open to suggestions especially positive ones.
I fail to see why you think its too complicated to run,like I said before the lads at the M.N.S.C.I have the required experience in all aspects of the sport that would faclitate an all round charity shoot on a complex that can facilitate several different types of shooting format. Its so simple!!

Just be Gun Shy by name, not by nature (which Im sure is the case)

Sparks

No reason we can't do this every bank holiday or every other bank holiday skellig - and frankly, we've left a lot of disciplines out this time like fullbore rifle, black powder, air rifle, smallbore pistol, and a dozen more I'll bet. But for the first time, keeping it simple would seem to be the key to success. Let's get it to work the first time and make plans for the next time; after all, you rarely see competitive matches on bank holidays for some reason, so why not use them for a good cause - both in terms of raising money for charity and in terms of fostering better inter-community relations?

So for June: Newry, Wilkinstown, Courtlough;
for August 5/6/7: MNSCI and others? (okay, ISSF people are conflicting there with the Comber Open, World Championships and GB Junior International, but you'll still get a good few going)
for October 28/29/30: ?

skellig

Gun Shy
I.P.S.A in not the N.G.B for Southern Ireland id check on that one again if I were you
Contact the I.P.S.A for clarification.

"I.P.S.A open for offers for a location of a home range" that sounds like another rifle Association that was formed without a range behind it.

Seriously I did think the range in Newry was the home range of I.P.S.A --Fair enough I know its in another country not so far away on the same Island and Ive no problem with that at all. Why not Newry as the home Range after all I.P.S.A derived and was founded there.I know they have been very helpful and passed on their experiences also. Im sure as time goes by I.P.S.A will most likely alocate their own range which shouldnt be so difficult on account of size needed. Best of luck in the future I.P.S.A The more ranges built in this country the better and stronger our sport will get.

Imagine Croke Park being the only pitch in Ireland what good would the G.A.A be---get my drift!!

skellig

I dont think so Sparks it couldnt be any simpler.
Why drop Air Rifle or why go through all the hassle of customisation.
The type of Charity Shoot Im familiar with is just a load of fun for all ;that makes good money for Charity
For those that are customised leave that way on the day so that those that havent seen this before can actually watch with interest and Im sure ask questions about this sport to which Im sure they will get welcome answers and advice. It would be a great advertisment for all shooting sports.

A Bank Holiday is not a good choice for a charity shoot going on past experiences of the M.N.S.C.I A lot of people go on family outings on these weekends even Mothers Day believe it or not
Its important to pick the right day in order to maximise the amount of entries especially when its for Charity
Im sure there is a date somewhere in 2006 that this can happen.

Black Powder Id love to see as well Sparks even a welly throwing competition for charity
For Gods sake how simple can I make it .Ive tried my best

Gun Shy

skellig wrote:

Gun Shy
I.P.S.A in not the N.G.B for Southern Ireland id check on that one again if I were you
Contact the I.P.S.A for clarification.

No Clarification Needed

From the IPSA Website

"Welcome to the website of the Irish Practical Shooting Association .The IPSA is the Governing Body for IPSC shooting in Ireland sanctioned by The international Practical Shooting Confederation. Ireland was accepted as an IPSC Region in Mar 2005 after a long affiliation process"

Regional status as described on the IPSC website
IPSC Ireland, Republic Of

"I.P.S.A open for offers for a location of a home range" that sounds like another rifle Association that was formed without a range behind it.

!!!!

"Seriously I did think the range in Newry was the home range of I.P.S.A --Fair enough I know its in another country not so far away on the same Island and Ive no problem with that at all. Why not Newry as the home Range after all I.P.S.A derived and was founded there.I know they have been very helpful and passed on their experiences also. Im sure as time goes by I.P.S.A will most likely alocate their own range which shouldnt be so difficult on account of size needed. Best of luck in the future I.P.S.A The more ranges built in this country the better and stronger our sport will get.

Imagine Croke Park being the only pitch in Ireland what good would the G.A.A be---get my drift!!

The Aim of the IPSA is to promote and develop IPSC style shooting in Ireland, and to train and qualify shooters to the highest International standards . It is our intention to begin sending suitably qualified shooters to international competition in the very near future.

While most of our shooting and comps. etc are held at NITSA and indeed at present our training courses, this is not by design. IPSA is an Association of The Republic of Ireland and as such we would like to secure a home range in the South. But are more interested in our members getting PP up and running in their own ranges and have travelled to at members requests to Demo PP for them thereby increasing awareness and interest. All Ranges which are interested in making arrangements for training etc up to IPSC competition standard will be facilitated by the committee and helped along the way.

Perhaps in a way IPSA is fortunate that its independant nature cannot be put into question at this early stage by being seeing as to operate from only one Club and when a home range in the South is secured the Independant nature of IPSA will continue.

UKPSA has NGB status in Northern Ireland and not IPSA

skellig

Thought I mentioned everything thats legal Sparks,For Jasus sake youre starting to sound like the S.S.A.I (in your case the N.R.P.A.I)
Can I make this any simpler if I can please let me know

Its like all the N.R.P.A.I meetings I went to, all waffle.They seem to forget about the shooting sport and the importance of more ranges that you can actually shoot on.
You of all people should know that!
For such a small sport that we all love lets share it and forget the begrudgers especially those that threaten with the courts!!!

skellig

Gun Shy
Obviously you are from Northern Ireland
When you refer to this country its the Republic of Ireland not Southern Ireland thats a place in south Munster ie cork or kerry

What if I said South Britain eg Cornwall or Devon Not so nice is it!!
maybe a geography lesson wouldnt go astray Northern Ireland is in Great Britain and I have no poblem with that hope the feeling is mutual

Now sod the political talk what about charity thats more important dont you think!

civdef

Lads keep this harmonious, eh?

Gun Shy

skellig wrote:

Gun Shy
Obviously you are from Northern Ireland!

Obviously!! your incorrect

skellig wrote:

When you refer to this country its the Republic of Ireland not Southern Ireland thats a place in south Munster ie cork or kerry!

Obviously!! in the context in which it was written ie. in differentiating between Northern and Southern. it is perfectly correct.

skellig wrote:

What if I said South Britain eg Cornwall or Devon Not so nice is it!!!

Couldn't care less I'm from Cork

skellig wrote:

maybe a geography lesson wouldnt go astray Northern Ireland is in Great Britain and I have no poblem with that hope the feeling is mutual!

The feeling is mutual!!!! and I hope you enjoy the geography lessons

If I can help clarify anything further for you I'd be more than happy to oblige.

Gun Shy

civdef wrote:

Lads keep this harmonious, eh?

Good idea!!

Think it should be split at this stage (getting way off topic)

My Apologies but had to reply

skellig

Sorry Civdef your right --Charity first
Gun Shy from Cork , yeah right:D
Northern and Southern Ireland not exactly Cork lingo:D
Your not the best at throwing us off the scent Gun Shy:D
Hey lets get back to the Charity shoot or maybe its just too complicated for you to understand Gun Shy ---I hope not!!!:D

les45

The format as proposed sounds fine. In relation to the full bore pistol I would propose the following. 30 Rnds to score, 20 rounds practice. 5 rnds at 5 mts Time allowed 5 Seconds, strong hand only. 5 Rnds at 10 mts Time allowed 10 seconds , strong hand only. 5 rnds 15mts ,15 seconds freestyle, 5 rnds at 20mts ,15 seconds Freestyle, 5 rnds at 25 mts 20 seconds. Target type B27 Centre on A4 Card all rounds to score 10/9/8 /5 !

Gun Shy

skellig wrote:

Hey lets get back to the Charity shoot or maybe its just too complicated for you to understand Gun Shy ---I hope not!!!:D

Thats ok I got it first time round and didnt have to have it explained to me.:D

civdef

les45, out of interest, what fullbore types will be in use?