Multi-discipline inter-club shoot for Charity

Sparks

skellig wrote:

Why drop Air Rifle or why go through all the hassle of customisation.

Was discussing this last night in Wilkinstown - the problem with air rifle for this event is that a huge amount of air rifle shooting is adjusting the rifle to fit you. If you don't allow personal rifles, some people literally won't be able to shoot (I can't even see through the sights of a stock air rifle without either raiser blocks or a broken neck). And that'd take too long. Air Pistol, you just pick up and shoot.

The type of Charity Shoot Im familiar with is just a load of fun for all

Well, yes - but if there's no hope whatsoever of even a little competition, it's not so much fun! If we leave it at fullbore pistol vs air pistol, you can at least get a match going similar to the inter-club grudge matches in college - good fun, but still fair enough to get a bit of competition going!

A Bank Holiday is not a good choice for a charity shoot going on past experiences of the M.N.S.C.I A lot of people go on family outings on these weekends even Mothers Day believe it or not

True, but trying to run more events on more than one range per day would be a bad idea - those running a range wouldn't be able to take part in the other disciplines.

Its important to pick the right day in order to maximise the amount of entries especially when its for Charity

Indeed. Do we have calendars for everyone though? And we're far enough away from June that people can plan for this...

Black Powder Id love to see as well Sparks even a welly throwing competition for charity

Ditto, but if we try to do everything on the first day, we'll fall flat on our arses!

skellig wrote:

Thought I mentioned everything thats legal Sparks,For Jasus sake youre starting to sound like the S.S.A.I (in your case the N.R.P.A.I)

Eh? Not seeing where you're coming from there skellig.

Its like all the N.R.P.A.I meetings I went to, all waffle.They seem to forget about the shooting sport and the importance of more ranges that you can actually shoot on.
You of all people should know that!
For such a small sport that we all love lets share it and forget the begrudgers especially those that threaten with the courts!!!

Must... resist... hearty... agreement...

Sparks

les45 wrote:

The format as proposed sounds fine. In relation to the full bore pistol I would propose the following. 30 Rnds to score, 20 rounds practice. 5 rnds at 5 mts Time allowed 5 Seconds, strong hand only. 5 Rnds at 10 mts Time allowed 10 seconds , strong hand only. 5 rnds 15mts ,15 seconds freestyle, 5 rnds at 20mts ,15 seconds Freestyle, 5 rnds at 25 mts 20 seconds. Target type B27 Centre on A4 Card all rounds to score 10/9/8 /5 !

Er, les, the B27 target - that's not going to be this thing, is it?

les45

No Mark, we will use the centre only on a plain white A4 card, reason being if a competitor can shoot they will score well, if he or she can hit the card then they will also score 5 points. I am trying to make this as fair as possible.

Sparks

Okay les, I just thought when you said "bullseye" pistol that we'd be shooting the actual 2700 bullseye targets (the NRA B-2 through B-5 series).

les45

The B27 centre ,I hope acceptable to all teams. Big and easy to see.

les45

To answer your question Civ we have a range of Glocks, Springfield XDs . Also many members have STIs, H&Ks, Les Baers.

b52

This has made very interesting reading.Correct me if I am wrong, this started out as a charity event, in a view to raise funds for needy causes.
You were offered the facilities and ranges of the M.N.S.C.I., if what they (M.N.S.C.I.)say is true and they can faciliate the volume of shooters that they say they can, would it not be better in the interest of charity to have everyone there for one day, to raise as much money as possible. Instead of moving around in and out of this country on different weekends. Novice shooters, I am sure would have an interest in participating in a fun day, without the competive nature that you are suggesting.To generate as much funds a possible you need to get through as much shooters as possible.

To allow novice shooters the use of fullbore pistols in a competitive nature is foolish without the proper supervision, guidance and control, and I feel to get the most out of this charity event, this supervision would not be adequate.
If they (M.N.S.C.I.) have the personell and experience to run an event such as this would it not be better for everyone to get together and run this event in the interest of charity on their ranges. Remember to get the most out of any Charity event like (Live Aid) it must be done in one day when peoples hearts are in it, or is there something wrong with the M.N.S.C.I.?

skellig

Thanks B52 ----for a second I thought I was the only one interested in a good Charity Shoot.It makes so much more sense to have it on one day judging on past experiences. However some reckon its hard to find a day for it and in the next line they say it should be shot over several Weekends (figure that one out??)

I have a lot more to say on the matter but I think the message is clear Im being ignored for some reason (thats nothing new going by the good old days with the N.R.P.A.I)

Anyhow whatever the outcome I hope it is benificial to whatever charity is chosen.
I hope that at least the Pistol Shoot goes ahead lads,keep us informed ie dates, venue etc
Please God lads if ever it happens that there is a range in Southern Ireland (oops I mean Republic of Ireland how could a Midlander like me make that mistake !!) that is worthy of you!! and good for any large meetings please let us know.

Im sure the M.N.S.C.I. will carry on regardless(keep up the good work for charity)

Still waiting on the info. about lead exposure and ventilation for indoor ranges.I know you need it for rimfire and centrefire but do you need it for Air Rifle and Air Pistol--Would appreciate an answer due to personal insurance reasons for health and hygiene.

PS Gun Shy ---how are all in Cork must say fair play to you for making the effort driving all that way to Newry in the interest of your sport and Charity. Somewhere like Meath would be handier for you to live, youd have the best of both worlds then!!:D

What exactly is going on??? I lost track of things about two pages back...

cantona

b52.....To correct your assumption this thread started as a personal challenge between Sparks and Les45 ie. air pistol and fullbore.

skellig....Contrary to your mistaken views Gunshy is from Cork.I have seen his Redneck

With regard to all safety and legal issues raised, it is illegal for any person to use any licensed firearm for which they are not licensed with the exception of club firearms which are certified thus.AFAIK no clubs in southern Ireland(he he ) have this facility yet for fullbore pistols

civdef

Who started all this charity stuff?

Gun Shy

skellig wrote:

Please God lads if ever it happens that there is a range in Southern Ireland (oops I mean Republic of Ireland how could a Midlander like me make that mistake !!) that is worthy of you!! and good for any large meetings please let us know.

There is and we used it to great enjoyment and welcomed the excellent facilities on offer everyone is looking forward to the next opportunity to visit again. IPSA really appreciated the welcome that they received on the day.

Text from IPSA Newsletter Issue 1 June 2005

Inaugural IPSA Competition Tullamore 28/August 2005

We are delighted to announce the Inaugural competition of the IPSA will be held at the Midlands Range in Tullamore on Sunday the 28th August @ 10am

Issue 2 December 2005

Available at http://www.ipsc-ireland.org/ just check the news section

There is a thank you to the MNSC for providing the facilities and there is also 5 photos from the event.

skellig wrote:

PS Gun Shy ---how are all in Cork must say fair play to you for making the effort driving all that way to Newry in the interest of your sport and Charity. Somewhere like Meath would be handier for you to live, youd have the best of both worlds then!!:D

Thanks for asking my mum is fine, I havent been down in a while as she was up for the christmas, but I havent been to meath since I last visited some friends there.

Everything you need is right before you, you wont have to look too far.
I guess I could point you in some sort of direction but that would be too easy.
I'm begining to enjoy this game of stick the pin in the Map of Ireland (Obviously Republic)



They seek him here. They seek him there. Those Frenchies seek him everywhere. Is he in heaven? Or is he in hell? That ever elusive Pimpernel

1911

cantona wrote:

b52.....To correct your assumption this thread started as a personal challenge between Sparks and Les45 ie. air pistol and fullbore.

I find all of this very confusing I can understand the Charity bit , but if it was for charity I would have thought the bigger the better.
The thought of the Practical Pistol boys shooing with someone who allegedly try to get their sport “banned” before it even started or it best does not have a good word to say about it, is just plan funny.
But if it is only to raise a few EGOs your way looks fine.


P.S
Allegedly means
An alleged incident is an event that is said to have taken place but has not yet been verified.

SOME BACKGROUND READING

Sparks wrote:

Well, I've said it before, but I may as well restate it.
One IPSC/IDPA match covered by the media and we'd be crucified.

Sparks wrote:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=302954&highlight=Olympic
Now, bearing in mind your statements here is the information you requested:
A delegation from the SSAI was at a meeting with the DOJ in April of this year. During the debate ,the DOJ officials gave the impression that they had been told by another group of shooters, that nobody needed a pistol with a calibre greater than .22 for competitions.When asked who had said this, they replied that it was the target shooters.The NTSA had met the DOJ and had not made this statement.The NTSA group had also heard from the DOJ, in their meeting with them, that a representation had been received from another group of target shooters styling themselves the "Olympic Coaches Association" .The SSAI had also asked , in the course of their meeting, who these people were and who they represented. The answer was that they called themselves the "Olympic Coaches Association". When asked who the actual people were, guess whose name was mentioned as one of the attendees?.
It seems that you have been in a position to answer your own questions all along Sparks..

les45

When I proposed the shoot I had hoped that the two sides of a the same coin would meet and shoot together. The charity idea was mine, the shoot was never to be a charity shoot per se. I know full well that PP shooting is something that the ISSF would like to see eliminated , why I dont know!. This shoot was and is a chance for those people to meet each other , shoot guns they would not normally shoot and as a by donate a few bob to a cause that needs support. And yes there is a competitive element to it ,thats is what we do . The shoot will take place on the June Bank Holiday Weekend. Full Bore Pistol in Newry on the Saturday, and Air Pistol in Wilkinstown on Sunday, Monday is still to be decided. That is it no more and no less. To those clubs that have offered their ranges free of charge for a charity event, thank you , the Midlands National Shooting Centre Of Ireland is a outstanding facility, I have no doubt that a large scale charity event would be a outstanding sucesss.

Gun Shy

1911 wrote:

I find all of this very confusing I can understand the Charity bit , but if it was for charity I would have thought the bigger the better.
The thought of the Practical Pistol boys shooing with someone who allegedly try to get their sport “banned” before it even started or it best does not have a good word to say about it, is just plan funny.
But if it is only to raise a few EGOs your way looks fine.

Bearing in mind that
1 I'm a founder member of the IPSA.
2 I was here on boards when those comments were made and remember them well.

It is MY firm belief that we have either all moved on from that OR if we havent yet then we should have by now and not go down the well publiised road that the UK went down and the situation that they are now in since their ban.

In support of this prehaps a review of some of my own comments from this thread and again please notice the humour and goodnatured banter in not alone some of my posts but those of others also. I am aware of Sparks previous statements, likewise IPSA is also, but we are prepared to keep an open door for everybody and view this as a necessity to advance all shooting sports in this country. I for one look forward to sharing the FP with Sparks and his crew some day shortly.

I previously wrote on 05-01-2006, 19:19

GunShy wrote:

"Then again IPSA might be able to poach a few converts perhaps even Sparks "

Likewise I wrote on 11-01-2006, 22:21

GunShy wrote:

"Part of the challenge is (and was never EGO) allowing fellow shooters take part in a style of shooting that they havent tried to before or are unable to do so because of legal requirements and fostering a greater and better understanding between our closest relatives!!!!!!!!!! and hopefully blood will be thicker than water if it ever comes time to circle the wagons. The other parts being the Charity and the Good PR."

The first mention of Charity was on post 13 by Les45

06-01-2006, 09:41 #13
les45

Les45 wrote:

I think this is a fair proposal , and we would propse a wager of say €250.00 per team ,winner to donate to a charity of their choice.

The only "funny part" of it so far has been the slant that it has taken since the first posting by Les 45

05-01-2006, 14:11 #1

LES45 wrote:

Mark, a proposal , Match to be shoot over 60 Rnds, 30 .177, and 30 fullbore pistol. IPSA will provide both full bore pistols and ammunition and range, Wilkinstown to provide airpistols, pellets and targets. .177 at standard 10 mt distance , full bore to be shot on a agreed target, bulls eye type would be fine with us at 25 mts, on a date to be agreed. What do you think !

Why not lets all move on

Incidentally the midlands would suit me perfectly being only a short distance away and a lot nearer than Newry but until the situation exists whereby I can legally allow Sparks shoot my sporting firearm in a competition or their is fullbore club guns available then it will not fulfill the requirements that are presently needed for this competition.

I welcome any solutions which will provide guaranteed results

(Edited as follows after seeing Les 45 posting)I see that les posted just before me so situation resolved hope to see ya all there.

Sparks

1911 wrote:

I find all of this very confusing I can understand the Charity bit , but if it was for charity I would have thought the bigger the better.

As was said above, the charity part came after the idea of having the match - the idea being that rather than a wager between me and Les, that we'd give the proceeds to a charity, which was a much better idea than one of us getting a tenner off the other and buying a round in the pub afterwards, to be honest.

The thought of the Practical Pistol boys shooing with someone who allegedly try to get their sport “banned” before it even started or it best does not have a good word to say about it, is just plan funny.

And that person would be whom? Or has someone been listening to taproom gossip when the original statements were right here in black and white for any and all to read had they the interest?
I've said in the past that I don't want to shoot at human/humanoid targets with anything, be it firearm, bow, atlatl or anything else. That's not changed, and we're not using those targets for this match.
I've said in the past that IPSC matches have the worst PR image of almost any of the shooting disciplines because of it's nature, and that's still the same - the tabloids get a slow news day and photos of an IPSC match and we'd all have a serious problem.
I've said in the past that the ISSF and the IPSC are at loggerheads and so the NTSA can't ever get involved with the practical pistol end of things, and that's still true and unchanged.
But every time I said those things - and I was so explicit on this point that people got bored hearing it - I also stated that these were not reasons to ban the sport, and so long as it was safe, have fun.
Nice to know someone's been saying otherwise, eh?

During the debate ,the DOJ officials gave the impression that they had been told by another group of shooters, that nobody needed a pistol with a calibre greater than .22 for competitions.When asked who had said this, they replied that it was the target shooters.The NTSA had met the DOJ and had not made this statement.

Oddly, that's not what I heard. But I can't prove it as apparently noone kept notes of any of these DOJ meetings, which is why I didn't start yelling at the time. And for the record, ISSF shooters need fullbore pistols too - we shoot up to .38 calibre in fullbore ISSF pistol matches.

And as to the idea that I'm ignoring the midlands: are ye daft?
Look, we can't shoot everything in one day in one place yet. This competition is the first we've tried to run between disciplines - so don't think of it as the competition shot, think of it as a sighter. We'll run it, stuff won't work, other stuff will, and the next time (which I thought we were going to see run in the Midlands - check the post above with the dates) would be better because we'd know what to expect. Look, in three or four years, we could be running these on a regular basis throughout the year on a Grand Prix system, raising thousands for charity, building a far stronger community and having a tun of fun too. Let's just start with something easier to run and build on it!

(Geez, you try to have a more honourable form of a wager in a pissing competition and suddenly everyone's getting annoyed that they can't host the competition themselves.

Isn't it great? It's been years since I saw so much prior interest in a domestic match! Take note, NRPAI - this is what we want to be seeing!)

Can someone say just what exactly has been proposed? Is is it a personal pissing contest between Sparks and someone or a charity match between them, or an open Charity match?

BOBTHESHOOTER

Looks like the concept of a challenge has deteriorated into a load of old bollix, when a simple challenge as was posted and then developes into such crap is it any wonder that we are in the dark ages with the development of shooting sports in Ireland. As I see it, it was a clear opportunity to have a one on one with the ISSF contingent and the result would have been a few bob for charity. Great to see the MRC row in as the charitable organisation, seems to me that the only charity in that area are the people who own MRC!

Sparks

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

Looks like the concept of a challenge has deteriorated into a load of old bollix, when a simple challenge as was posted and then developes into such crap is it any wonder that we are in the dark ages with the development of shooting sports in Ireland.

Ah don't be silly Bob, the idea's gone from a simple one-on-one match which would have been a small bit of fun to an idea for a series of matches that would bring the entire community together over a period of time and raise some money for charity in the process. Frankly, I think it's a great idea and I'm really chuffed to see so many people wanting in on it!

Great to see the MRC row in as the charitable organisation, seems to me that the only charity in that area are the people who own MRC!

Ah, don't be daft bob, the MRC have done a lot of charity shoots in the past and frankly, if every club was so eager to hold competitions as they are (and it's not just this time, they're always keen to run matches), we'd be a lot healthier as a community than we are right now!

BOBTHESHOOTER

So why can't the act be gotten together and the shoot sorted!

scorphonic

Sparks wrote:

Seems there's a lot more charity work being done by target shooting clubs than most people know about.

Of course, sometimes you get to be more dignified about it than others...


(Still though, that one raised around €1,800 for the Children's Hospital)

Hahahaha Sparks...where did you get that photo from?

The guy on the far left is an old teacher of mine!

Gun Shy

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

So why can't the act be gotten together and the shoot sorted!

Orignally planned shoot appears to be sorted

Today, 10:05 #75

Les45 wrote:

When I proposed the shoot I had hoped that the two sides of a the same coin would meet and shoot together. The charity idea was mine, the shoot was never to be a charity shoot per se. I know full well that PP shooting is something that the ISSF would like to see eliminated , why I dont know!. This shoot was and is a chance for those people to meet each other , shoot guns they would not normally shoot and as a by donate a few bob to a cause that needs support. And yes there is a competitive element to it ,thats is what we do . The shoot will take place on the June Bank Holiday Weekend. Full Bore Pistol in Newry on the Saturday, and Air Pistol in Wilkinstown on Sunday, Monday is still to be decided. That is it no more and no less. To those clubs that have offered their ranges free of charge for a charity event, thank you , the Midlands National Shooting Centre Of Ireland is a outstanding facility, I have no doubt that a large scale charity event would be a outstanding sucesss. !

I look forward to the next time such an event either small scale such as this or on a larger sacle and I would welcome the opportunity to legally and safely offer others the option to use my sporting firearm at such a competition.

As one of only 5 qualified IPSC RO's (who are Republic based) I would be happy to officiate at any IPSC events or demos which conform to the IPSC/IPSA safety standards and also any existing safety standards or procedures which are already in existance in the club hosting the event.

Such was the procedure which we adopted in Fassaroe on a recent visit where we gave a demonstration of IPSC shooting, and also when we held our first competion in the Midlands Range.

Sparks

scorphonic wrote:

Hahahaha Sparks...where did you get that photo from?
The guy on the far left is an old teacher of mine!

That was two years ago scorphonic, in Wilkinstown. We ran a sort of summer biathlon (shooting air rifle at field air rifle targets then cycling an 8km circuit) event to raise money for charity. Raised somewhere around €1800 from that.

Gun Shy wrote:

Orignally planned shoot appears to be sorted

Thought so myself. I thought we would be then organising another one of these shoots with different disciplines for the August bank holiday then in the Midlands, if they were willing. (And by we, I mean the community on boards.ie - we already have a fair few dedicated MNSCI members here)

How does that sound to everyone?

Kryten

Nice of Midlands to offer to help, but lets face it, the only place the Air shooters can use full bore pistols would be Newry. The Full bore shooters firing Air guns same applies there by them using Wilkinstown.

Midlands will not allow a shooter shoot a pistol they are not licenced for, (firearms acts 1925) this is why Sparks and Les are not going to use Midlands for this particular shoot.

This makes perfect sense to me.

Sparks

Kryten wrote:

Midlands will not allow a shooter shoot a pistol they are not licenced for, (firearms acts 1925) this is why Sparks and Les are not going to use Midlands for this particular shoot.

Actually, there wasn't any reason not to use MNSCI, it's just that we'd already proposed the "you come to my range and I'll go to yours" format by the time the Midlands offer came in. That's it, that was the whole reason.
As to the shooting a firearm you're not licenced for, that's perfectly legal in the Republic so long as the firearm is held on an authorisation. That's how the college clubs have operated for decades - DURC for 45 years and UCDRC for around 14.
So there's no insoluble problem, and no bias against anyone, this just came about the way it did through happenstance. Next time (hopefully in August), we'll go to two or three new ranges and do two or three new disciplines. And in a few years, maybe we'll have a grand prix setup where everyone tries everything during the year and we all have some craic doing it and knit together better as a community at the grassroots level. But baby steps to start with!

Would someone from the MNSCI like to help by starting to work on the August shoot?

skellig

Cant believe how you used a Childrens programme for your hidden name (Id be worried about that one Bob)

Charity is not" crap " as you have made it out to be
A few bob for charity ,well what can I say fair play to you .Hope you can sleep well on that one!

Please tell us all who owns the M.R.C ,would be interested to hear this one.
I would like to give them a piece of my mind about functioning only for Profit and not having brought any kind of shooting facilities to the shooters in Ireland in that little bit of a facility they reluctantly run ----come on Bob the Builder( oops the shooter )can you fix this one!!

Bob your obiously a gas man and judging from your negativity are not a member of a club or range; actually Id say your anti-shooting.

skellig

I have heard a so called Range Officer crowing aloud on the M.N.S.C.I Ranges about being at the Fasaroe Range (East Coast Sporting Club) where he refused to shoot due to rocky ground and a back stop only 7 foot high.They continued on regardless ;so much for safety and while Im on the topic the one at M.N.S.C.I isnt high enough either.

In regards to charity the more you make the better every time! This thread title (Multi-disciplines Inter Club Charity Shoot ) is deceiving as the charity is only by the way. I thought my advice would be helpful towards making more money --obviously not the case.

As for legalities can the Centrefire shooters shoot in the R.O.I an air pistol (through authorisaion ) if so which I hope is allowed please verify. The M.N.S.C.I dont conduct indoor Shooting due to lead exposure but can they do so without approved ventilation (if thats the case please let them know )

ps---no matter how big or small your charity shoot becomes every little bit helpsas we all know someone will benifit from it
Best of luck Lads

Sparks

skellig wrote:

In regards to charity the more you make the better every time! This thread title (Multi-disciplines Inter Club Charity Shoot ) is deceiving as the charity is only by the way. I thought my advice would be helpful towards making more money --obviously not the case.

Skellig, don't think that the advice isn't helpful, it is. The title for the thread was chosen when I split it from the air pistol thread, and by that point we'd decided that the wager would be in the form of a donation to charity. Now I

As for legalities can the Centrefire shooters shoot in the R.O.I an air pistol (through authorisaion ) if so which I hope is allowed please verify.

Yes, that's the case. The college clubs have operated that way for years (they have an authorisation for club members to use firearms in their ranges rather than each of the up to 700 members every year having to get a licence). Also, the recent airgun matches run in WTSC have been run on an authorisation that way so that pistols belonging to club members could be used by other club members.

ps---no matter how big or small your charity shoot becomes every little bit helpsas we all know someone will benifit from it

Indeed. By the way, just so as we're all clear here - there's no limit on what teams can enter this. If the MNSCI wants to enter a team or two teams or three or however many, that's absolutely completely fine by me. More the merrier. WTSC has six firing points, I'd guess we'd need 90 minutes for a full detail and changeover to the next detail, so we could fit in five or six teams all told if we run from 1000 in the morning to 1730 or 1900. Hell, if there's enough demand we'll run more details.

And another thing - if teams were to get sponsorship, that'd work too. We just had the 12-hour shootathon today in Wilkinstown, and we raised a little over a grand towards the bisley trip from that kind of sponsorship (and we're talking here literally about the kind of sponsorship you used to see in school as kids where someone sponsors you for a euro to shoot for however many hours you're down for and you fill up a card or two that way. Simple idea, but simple ideas bring in lots of money if you work hard at them). So if you were to get the team members to raise money that way, it could raise the amount given to charity in the end. Maybe that's a bit much for the first event, but it's definitely an idea to keep attached to this whole notion.

macnas

I can appreciate how sensitively we are dealing with this MNSCI thing but this Skellig is a complete Muppet. I am fairly sure he/she is not a spokesperson for the club. He/she just doesn't get it, it's not about charity, it's not about egos, it's not about the MNSCI. He/she comes out with this childish rubbish and then runs back in behind the excuse of it's okay because it's for charity. I know you expect to come across a few 'ding dongs' on the net, but this one takes the biscuit. He/she's not doing his/her club any favours by coming on here, pissed up and belligerent. (sorry Sparks, I know this isn't very helpful)

civdef

This thread generally has descended into a bit of a farce, so unless the next few threads raise the game a bit, it'll be put to sleep.

I'm all in favour of rants, don't get me wrong, but when rants become incoherent it gets very tiring to read. Some people need to think before they type, and maybe back off on the alcohol intake!