Pat Rabbitte and 40 million Poles

shuushh

he seems to be against the freedom of movement of labour in the EU when it results in poor workers rights

Koyasan

shuushh wrote:

he seems to be against the freedom of movement of labour in the EU when it results in poor workers rights

Well now, that's the impression I got from the article: That the gentleman wants everyone working within the territory of Ireland to be paid in accordance with Irish labour laws.

Regarding immigration. Does it not hold that migrant workers will only stay in Ireland if there is an actual demand for them, and that as soon as that demand dries up they will move to the next territory, as is their right, and ours, as EU citizens?

fly_agaric

Koyasan wrote:

Does it not hold that migrant workers will only stay in Ireland if there is an actual demand for them, and that as soon as that demand dries up they will move to the next territory, as is their right, and ours, as EU citizens?

Like the Turkish "guest-workers" in Germany who are still there long after the German economic growth slowed down and jobs became much more difficult to come by?

No, the migrant workers are human too - not economic production units. People have to settle down some time.

mike65

If they want to stay they can, the Turks in Germany situation is'nt realy comparible. Even Germany in the doldrums is better than Turkey for most Turks. I think Poland, Latvia etc will be pretty decent economies soon enough.

Mike.

fly_agaric

mike65 wrote:

If they want to stay they can, the Turks in Germany situation is'nt realy comparible. Even Germany in the doldrums is better than Turkey for most Turks. I think Poland, Latvia etc will be pretty decent economies soon enough.

Mike.

True. I suppose some of the migrants or their children would probably head back to their roots if the country they came from provides as much opportunity as Ireland. Like the Irish emigrants who came back after the country got richer.

I was just disagreeing with the idea that they will flit off to the next rich country with plenty of jobs (i.e. act as guest workers) if things take a turn for the worse here.

About the Turks in Germany - has Germany not given them citizenship? They are there a long time and must be well into the 2nd generation (and beyond) by now.

Cork

shuushh wrote:

he seems to be against the freedom of movement of labour in the EU when it results in poor workers rights

He seems to want work permits to control the number entering the country.

Enda Kenny seems to be mainining a silence on the subject.

monument

meditraitor wrote:

Pat rabbit using the race card, now thats pure nonesense.....

Why? Pat Rabbitte is a populist who, as Vincent Browne keeps points out, spouts nothing you wouldn’t expect from the PDs’ press office. In an interview with Browne, Rabbitte couldn’t give any substantial way which set his party from the PDs or any other party. Of course, it started when the old Sinn Fein the Workers Party crowd pretty much gained control of the Labour Party, but Rabbitte is bringing the party further right then it every has been.

samb

I don't think their should be any major policy change. All that should be done is that the labour inspectors should be expanded and the rules actually enforced. I think Pat Rabbite is right to be concerned about the services directive but I hope and think it will be ammended.

Of course, it started when the old Sinn Fein the Workers Party crowd pretty much gained control of the Labour Party

I don't know about this, please expand. To me the labour party is a responsible moderate and basically sane political party. I'm not a supporter but I can't see any of the extremism you are alluding to.

w66w66

samb wrote:

I don't think their should be any major policy change. All that should be done is that the labour inspectors should be expanded and the rules actually enforced. I think Pat Rabbite is right to be concerned about the services directive but I hope and think it will be ammended.

I can certainly see where Pat Rabbite is coming from and i don't believe for one minute that's he's been a populist or playing the "race card". But i do not believe that we need a policy change, as the number eastern european migrants will most likely drop in a year or two as other EU nations end their two year ban on eastern european migration.

Sand

Anyone see the letter in the Irish Times today from some Labour party members distancing themselves from Rabbittes remarks? Cant blame them, Rabbittes just attempting to cash in on what he perceived as a populist turn against migrant workers.

Permits are often cited as a tool by which underhand employers exploit migrant workers. If the employer removes the permit, the migrant is deported so they often endure terrible conditions to appease their employer. Rabbitte knows this so it seems clear he did not have the interests of EU citizens working here at heart. Labour have again demonstrated that they are unelectable. Unfortunately so is every other party so theyve as much chance as anyone.

monument

samb wrote:

Of course, it started when the old Sinn Fein the Workers Party crowd pretty much gained control of the Labour Party

I don't know about this, please expand. To me the labour party is a responsible moderate and basically sane political party. I'm not a supporter but I can't see any of the extremism you are alluding to.

It went something like this...

- Sinn Féin
- Official Sinn Féin (1970)
- Sinn Féin the Workers Party (1977)
- Workers Party (1982)
- Democratic Left (1992)
- merged with the Labour Party

I don’t know why the provos didn’t try this… a few splits, remaining, and a merger where the apparent little guy – practically speaking - takes over the Labour Party… and if by magic their Official IRA just went away, no decommissioning needed. When their IRA “just went away” is a good question, but who cares when so few relatively speaking know the troubled past of the Labour Party.

For examples, Proinsias De Rossa goes as far back as Sinn Féin before the 1970 split, while Pat Rabbitte joined when they were in the Workers Party stage of the re-branding. It’s totally plausible both knew nothing of the party’s links to the then Official IRA

mike65

Proinsias De Rossa goes all the way back to the mid-late 50s when he was interned for a couple of years. He always struck me a very decent fellow and proof people can change and evolve politically.

Mike.

constitutionus

well , speaking as someone who voted "no"to the NICE treaty let me be the first to say "NA NA NA NAAAA NA":D

Rabittes position on work permits is unworkable, the accession countries are in the EU now, and as such are entitled to do what ever the hell they want in terms of moving to get work just like WE are.

i love it when people try to make this a race issue when its plain to anyone with a brain that its all about employer exploitation. you notice IBEC had no problem with our immigration policy but almost had an apoplextic fit when they found out the services directorate ment they as business's would have to compete with other business's in europe on the same level as an irish employee having to compete with foreign labour willing to do the job for the minimum wage (except in IBECs case , for even less:D ). what happend there lads? you dont seem to keen on GENUINE competition now:) . i mean SURELY its good for the consumer to buy products or services for a HALF or a THIRD of what IBEC or ISME can afford to do em for. and if you cant compete ,well thats just progress isnt it? all those cleaners, hotel workers and manual labourers must be laughing their ass off now when they look at what happened to their wages and conditions now looks to be happening to their boss'es too.

its almost karma

Delboy05

Maskhadov wrote:

I think any plan to stop Jonny Foreigner coming into the country is madness. We need immigrants both to keep the economy going and to diversify the country. We have full employment now so why try to halt immigration ? QUOTE]


Why do we need to diversify the country!!!!!! Was there somethign wrong with if before...were we dropping dead on the streets because of a bad gene pool......unreal stuff!!!!!

And why does the economy have to go at full tilt...what if we settled for say, 2% less growth. Slow down and catch our breath so to speak. Let inflation in health/consturction die down, build up our infrastructure, look after the people providing the next generation of irish who have to commute for hours while kids sit in creches all day.....
Why grow at our potential every year if it means we have to take in over 100,000 immigrants each year- Germany tried that in the 50's, recovering from the war...brought in millions of turks....go ask germans about turks now....

and no i'm not racist....

DublinWriter

Delboy05 wrote:

And why does the economy have to go at full tilt...what if we settled for say, 2% less growth. Slow down and catch our breath so to speak. Let inflation in health/consturction die down, build up our infrastructure, look after the people providing the next generation of irish who have to commute for hours while kids sit in creches all day.....

Can I have some of what you're smoking? Slow down GDP *and* build up infrastructure?

Go down your local A&E department someday and count the number of Poles waiting for medical attention. Then follow up that trip with a jaunt down to your local Spar/Chipper/Lidl/Aldi and count the number of foreign nationals working and contributing tax into the system.

Delboy05 wrote:

Why grow at our potential every year if it means we have to take in over 100,000 immigrants each year- Germany tried that in the 50's, recovering from the war...brought in millions of turks....go ask germans about turks now....

And the most successful post WWII economy was...?

Delboy05 wrote:

and no i'm not racist....

Normally that phrase goes at the start rather than the finish, but congrats on the novel approach.

The_Minister

Rabitte knows he has the liberal left sowed up so he is fishing for the middle ground.

MrSinn

Culture does not exist in the global economy,culture is an unnecessary distraction to the global cause
Most wars were totally in vain,the borders that millions died for around the world are ignored now for cheap labour,we were the pawn,now we have pawns
Don't be too bothered by by our new cheap labour for now,when it starts to run short again Europe will allow Turkey to join the EU