They worked like blacks-Mary O'Rourke

democrates

I think older (than typical boards posters) voters -myself included- will be forgiving, even supportive on this point, as we would have used this phrase frequently over the years without intending any offense. If we have any ire it's more likely to be for those who presume to correct others when they inadvertantly say something now deemed un-pc.

Ms O'Rourke has become a lot more fluid in her conversation in recent years. This comes with age anyway, but it also makes for a more common touch than pr piffle.

She didn't come down in the last shower, if and when she and her supporters believe it would be best for the campaign to do a quick apology and move on we'll have it.

johnnyrotten

I think she meant "Worked Like Chinese"

Cake Fiend

Given her (hopeful) position, an apology might be appropriate and/or wise. But I don't believe for a second that anyone (including the practically self-parodying PC brigade) honestly believes she meant anything malicious by the comment. She's a product of a different generation, and old habits (especially ones that weren't seen as negative when they were formed) die hard.

therecklessone

ArthurF wrote:

Recently a Black/English friend of mine visited me in Dublin only to be confronted by a notice in a Dublin (Ballsbridge) Pub saying "NO SAMBO'S UPSTAIRS"

My mate's mother walked into a deli in New York a few years back and asked the guy behind the counter for a sambo. I'll leave you to guess his colour...

Thats what people her and O'Rourke's vintage do, its what they grew up with and don't realise the impact their words can have (cos in their mind its a harmless saying)

By the way, isn't it about time we formulated a boards version of Godwin's Law to deal with the increasing use of the term PC in every bloody thread on here? This is five pages long, and by my rough and ready maths thats about one page of pro-PC sentiment and four pages of anti...

monroe

I don't think it makes her a racist because she used a term common amongst people of her generation...

God forbid the day when I'm seventy and liable to insult someone with my 2006 slang vocab

Personally though I think theres a much more important issue at hand

What is a 70 yr old has been politician going for election to the dail for???

Seriously, it shouldn't even be allowed. Holding on to a seat and hoping to regain ministerial glory......

and then they wonder why the younger people of ireland show little interest in politics................maybe its cause our grannies show no sign of resigning!

BuffyBot

This is five pages long, and by my rough and ready maths thats about one page of pro-PC sentiment and four pages of anti...

Or perhaps it's indicative of how ridiculous people are beginning to find the over-sensitivity to pretty much everything which populates our lives of late?

the_syco

I think the saying may have been "working like a n|gger on speed", but "working like a black" sounds like the PC version.

TBH, she should have known. She's not going to say "I'm gay that my supporters worked like blacks", as gay no longer means happy, in the sense it did in Yeats time.

democrates

therecklessone wrote:

By the way, isn't it about time we formulated a boards version of Godwin's Law to deal with the increasing use of the term PC in every bloody thread on here? This is five pages long, and by my rough and ready maths thats about one page of pro-PC sentiment and four pages of anti...

Agreed. From now on pc is not pc. The boards codicil is that my sentance is admissable and does not end the thread.

Flex

BuffyBot wrote:

Or perhaps it's indicative of how ridiculous people are beginning to find the over-sensitivity to pretty much everything which populates our lives of late?

Agreed

PHB

Its unconscious racism, and while she might not have meant it that way, its a reflection of our society today that a phrase like that is still in use.
It's similar to how people call others gay, as a term of insult. Or how a large minority of the population use the term scabby jew. They don't mean to be racist(I'm sure they have black/gay/jewish friends) but ultimately its unconscious racism and it must be stamped out if our society is ever going to move past these petty issues of skin colour.

democrates

Unconscious racism is a questionable accusation as a) she was conscious, b) her words were not intended to cause racist offense.

What we once deemed to be harmless is now seen as *potentially* harmful. Older people unavoidably still have the phrase in their minds from prior use. With no disrespect to the lady in question "old dog, new trick" A degree of latitude is in order and I think we'd be a worse society if we condemn people so strongly for such a trivial thing.

cjs19

PHB wrote:

ultimately its unconscious racism and it must be stamped out if our society is ever going to move past these petty issues of skin colour.

It's not at all unconscious racism. I propose the view that even when phrases like this were in use they were not constructed with malicious intent. They most likely arose from Irish wit, or at least the Irish will to add a comical slant to every statement. Theres a major difference between this and lets say the comments of Ron Atkinson. Theres nothing wrong with what was she said in theory if nobody takes offense. As drunk as the Irish, worked like the blacks? I see no difference except that the black comment is steeped in a history of slavery and connotations therein, but both are utimately trivial phrases. If we are to curb everything we say, why say anything at all? Skin colour is not a petty issue, it is a defining factor in our society. What we should be striving for is to acknowledge the differences between races while at the same time striving to define the similarities which yield far better prospects for the future. Im white, hes black, good, now whats his name?

Donangel

Actually in my opinion , i think it would've been better if she have said " worked like slaves", because not only black people were slaves but lots of other races fell into slavery, and am not talkin about the last couple of centuries, am talking about since ancient history.
it was not nice to relate the saying to balck people because ur race doesnt have to be labeled as they "work hard" i mean lots of people work hard not only black.
also i totally disagree with "painting" people callin them black ,white or yellow. i have not seen in my life a white person,as matter of fact i've never seen black too or yellow !!!
so why dont you call them to their geographical races like african ,european,asian.

at the end we are really not that different,
think about it

Davei141

i have not seen in my life a white person,as matter of fact i've never seen black too or yellow !!!
so why dont you call them to their geographical races like african ,european,asian.

What does a european look like? What does an african look like? What does an asian look like? Its a long and winding road...

How many more "gaffe's" will it take from our politicians before they cop on?

Suaimhneach

Flex wrote:

Political correctness is really going overboard in this country

There is a huge difference between PCness and common understanding of a term that is entirely degrading to a whole race of people, esp considering the amount of immigration to this country in recent years, which all politicans should be aware of. Not the term "blacks" but the use of it in such an old fashioned out of touch manner.

It's as if she someone stood infront of her and she pointed it out to them by saying "Am I black?". I mean, no, if you were black, I'd see you ffs. It's where the term orignates from tahts an issue.

It's a term that was used before the term "politcal correctness" was created, that shows how old and for want of a better expression, "out of touch" our government is.

Between this and things like a couple of million going "missing" from gaurda stations and things like this as well, where a "Councillor wants 'special understanding' for rural drink-drivers". Ffs.

Yeah its a comment in passing, but it shows a lot more about the undercurrent of the people that are running our country.

edit:

To make my point REALLY clear, imo using the term "blacks" isnt what I have a problem with. Its "working like blacks" a term that was used back when we gave money to "the black babies". Our politicans need to get with the times, it sounds like something you'd hear from a "stero-typical backwards, gossiping country folk" tbvh.

therecklessone

BuffyBot wrote:

Or perhaps it's indicative of how ridiculous people are beginning to find the over-sensitivity to pretty much everything which populates our lives of late?

Or perhaps it indicative of how ridiculous it is that people are so over-sensitivite to over-sensitivity?

If anything, the story is an example of slow news day gone mad, at worst her comment was inadvisable (and certainly not meant in a racist manner) but as usual a few members of the media have made a mountain out of a molehill, not because of their political beliefs but because controversy sells newspapers and increases listener/viewer figures.

Hell, its got 6 pages out of boards, hasn't it?

rubadub

PHB wrote:

It's similar to how people call others gay, as a term of insult.

I would agree with that. I see it quite often on other forums. "That game is gay", I usually reply, "in what way is it homosexual?". Some people see no problem since it is apparently complimentary to blacks, which can then be seen as a negative comment inferring other races are lazy.

cjs19 wrote:

Theres nothing wrong with what was she said in theory if nobody takes offense.

So you are saying there is something wrong with what she said, since it seems some people are taking offence. Or do only black people's opinions matter which is racist in itself.

I can't wait for the next election when a canvasser calls to my door.
"ye poor divil, do they have ye working like a dirty fuking n!gger, do they?"

craigcharlie

rubadub wrote:

it is apparently complimentary to blacks

a few people have said this, i don't see this at all... surely this phrase is a reference to slavery, i.e., they worked like slaves?

zoro

Ugh - I hate the PC mob

rubadub

craigcharlie wrote:

a few people have said this, i don't see this at all... surely this phrase is a reference to slavery, i.e., they worked like slaves?

yes, I agree. These days the usual slur you hear is that blacks are lazy which has also been mentioned. There was some guy on TV3 news yesterday explaining slavery as the origin, which most already knew. If I was black I wouldnt really feel it a compliment, "my team worked like a team of black slaves been whipped by their white haggard old mistress", oh thanks for the compliment Mary.

zoro

rubadub wrote:

"my team worked like a team of black slaves been whipped by their white haggard old mistress"

!=

Mary wrote:

They worked like blacks

whiskeyman

Does anyone else feel the real issue was that she wouldn't accept that it may have offended and wouldn't apologise?
That, and her belittling of the situation that she vowed never to use to word "black" again ("I'll have to ask for a dark coloured suit") just made things worse IMO.


Had she apologised on the spot, I think the whole matter would have blown over faster..... of course, it was always going to blow over...

zoro

whiskeyman wrote:

Had she apologised on the spot, I think the whole matter would have blown over faster..... of course, it was always going to blow over...

But - what is there to apologise for?!
And to whom does she apologise to?

Do you personally know of any blacks that have been actively offended by what she said? Or is it only Flynn girl (can't remember her name now) that has stood up and said "OI! NO!" about it?

It's a very old saying, that does not have any racial intent built into it.
As was stated elsewhere, if she said "Worked like the trojans" would there have been such an outcry of disgust and unwavering determination to burn her for her sins?

jor el

From the RTE website it says

Ms O'Rourke said she would not be apologising for using the phrase 'worked like blacks' because she meant it in a complimentary sense about her party workers.

She also said three people she was referring to had accepted it in that manner.

So, is it that she offended party workers by inferring that they were black, or black people by inferring that they work hard?

The only racisists would be the party workers, if they take offence to being compared to a hard working black person. I don't see anything racist with her comment in itself.

whiskeyman

zoro wrote:

But - what is there to apologise for?!
And to whom does she apologise to?

Do you personally know of any blacks that have been actively offended by what she said? Or is it only Flynn girl (can't remember her name now) that has stood up and said "OI! NO!" about it?

It's a very old saying, that does not have any racial intent built into it.
As was stated elsewhere, if she said "Worked like the trojans" would there have been such an outcry of disgust and unwavering determination to burn her for her sins?

I know no offense was intentially made and it probably didnt offend anyone, but the PC bridage and certain journalists (and politicians) will dive at anything to make a story.
And that my point... an apology would have made this story nothing. It just dragged on because they kept asking for one.

zoro

whiskeyman wrote:

an apology would have made this story nothing. It just dragged on because they kept asking for one.

Actually an apology would (still could) make this story even bigger - as it would imply that she has indeed something wrong.

And the only reason they've dragged it on to look for one, is for the sake of being PC, which is pathetic in my eyes.

I'm not jumping on you - just trying to contribute to the discussion

monroe

We are going to get more and more like Britain and go PC crazy...

There are journalists just waiting for slips of the tongue like this....

What annoys me is that this kind of crap deflects from the real issues, racial and otherwise.

We should start a thread for all the old irish sayings that are now liable to get you hung in the papers...I can think of more than a few!!

therecklessone

Mary's not the first Irish pol to use the phrase, and this time its on record...

The fact is that if we are to maintain our standard of living even as it is, much less improve it, we all have to work like blacks.

Deputy James Dillon (deputy leader of FG), Dail Eireann 1938

Source

Interestingly, that debate with a discussion on spades...

whiskeyman

zoro wrote:

Actually an apology would (still could) make this story even bigger - as it would imply that she has indeed something wrong.

And the only reason they've dragged it on to look for one, is for the sake of being PC, which is pathetic in my eyes.

I'm not jumping on you - just trying to contribute to the discussion

yeah, I see your point there alright. Perhaps an immediate apology could have blown it up alright.

Perhaps, though, an apology the next morning in the context of "sorry for any offense caused, but none was intented" as by then it was clear the media and other organisations (Irish Refugee Council etc..) weren't out with their knives sharpened.

I guess I'm looking at this in more a PR and media handling issue.

Who's next for the "racial gaffe" I wonder

monroe wrote:

We should start a thread for all the old irish sayings that are now liable to get you hung in the papers...I can think of more than a few!!

good point!
Can we say "I'm knacked" (tired) in the media spotlight anymore?

zoro

whiskeyman wrote:

I guess I'm looking at this in more a PR and media handling issue

It would be media suicide to apologise for this in my opinion.

It is going to happen again - it's too common a phrase to just disappear overnight, and to apologise for it implies that the phrase is completely racist and there's just no excuse for it's use.

Which is bull ... it's a phrase that implies that someone or a group has worked extra hard.

For example: "He worked very very hard"
Translates to: "Awh, he built a lego house with his child, isnt it adorable?" (gross over simplification I know)

Whereas: "He worked like a black"
Translates to: "My god he built a pyramid on his OWN?!"


It's all word play - and how we perceive a certain phrase. While my own examples are (obviously) biased, it's very easy to see the difference between the 2 quotes.
One implies more work was done than the other - and that's all the phrase is intended to mean.