How come people don't learn BEFORE the damage is done

Seanie M

Like, reading about that crash near Navan in the early hours of Sunday morning... I mean, how come the driver from Latvia could not have removed himself from our genepool before he took out 2 innocent pedestrians on a road, and let his backseat passanger fly through the windshield and get pegged into a tree?

Not meaning to sound like a biggot, but in the local papers every couple of weeks, there are perhaps 2 or 3 Latvian, and Lithuanian drivers in court for reckless driving, no insurance or tax and they just don't seem to care.

If I'm driving in another country, I'll abide by their rules of the road - why can't these immigrants?

Seanie...

ds20prefecture

Seanie M wrote:

Not meaning to sound like a biggot, but in the local papers every couple of weeks, there are perhaps 2 or 3 Latvian, Lithuanian drivers in court for reckless driving, no insurance or tax and they just don't seem to care.

How many Irish drivers are in court every week for reckless driving, no insurance or tax? Is that not reported? Personally I believe that your statistic reflects more on the quality of journalism in local papers than it does on the quality of driving of immigrants. By the way, Latvia and Lithuania are two different countries. Would you like people to categorise the Irish as Americans or English?

If I'm driving in another country, I'll abide by their rules of the road - why can't these immigrants?

Because driving like an idiot is not a factor of where you are from. I almost got side swiped by a black guy driving a mini-bus the other day. 10 minutes later I almost got rear ended by some white guy in a Glanza. When I drove in the US last year, I had to emergency brake twice in order to avoid being hit by careless lane changers. Driving in Paris has to be seen to be believed.

People drive like idiots the world over, but in my experience the Irish are among the worst drivers, being careless, aggressive, competitive, uneducated and unskilled.

Cmar-Ireland

One the the pedestrians works where I work. I didn't know him personally, but used to see him everyday/say hello etc. There was a very sombre mood in work today.

Rip Phillip

Seanie M

ds20prefecture wrote:

By the way, Latvia and Lithuania are two different countries.

Really, didn't know that... :rolleyes: Its been corrected. (end sarcasm)

FuzzyWuzzyWazza

ds20prefecture wrote:

People drive like idiots the world over, but in my experience the Irish are among the worst drivers, being careless, aggressive, competitive, uneducated and unskilled.

I gotta agree with the careless, and uneducated/unskilled part. It never ceases to amaze me the level of incompetance and lack of compliance to the rules of the road I see driving every day.

A little pet peeve of mine is the use of roundabouts, I mean come on people read the rules of the road at least once before you subject the public to your sucidal driving!!

John R

Seanie M wrote:

If I'm driving in another country, I'll abide by their rules of the road - why can't these immigrants?

Could it be that they are driving in a careless and reckless manner purposely in order to integrate with the indigenous population?

Alun

FuzzyWuzzyWazza wrote:

I gotta agree with the careless, and uneducated/unskilled part. It never ceases to amaze me the level of incompetance and lack of compliance to the rules of the road I see driving every day.

I agree. I've driven in many other countries in the world. No one country is perfect, and each one its own little foibles when it comes to driving, but for good old plain incompetence you just can't beat Ireland.

junkyard

One thing I have noticed about non-national drivers is a lot of them, not all of them, seem to carry alcohol in their cars like a lot of Irish carry soft drinks, bottles of wine and cans of beer. It seems its O.K. to do this in other countries so they think its O.K. here too. I know of plenty Irish who drink and drive too but most of them go to the pub first whereas the non-nationals seem to spin around the place and drink in their cars.

Atomic Pineapple

Loads of polish/lithuianin/latvian (sp??) work around here, i know loads of them from my fathers company and uncles company and theres a company beside my house that employs loads of them and they are serious drinkers of spirits, i mean i know the irish drink and drive but 90% of these guys get completely hammered on vodka and then go driving around the roads like lunatics, its a serious problem around here, they've all had some sort of crash and its only a matter of time before they have a major crash.

I'm not being racist and i'm only goin on the 60 or 70 of them that live around here but they seem to have a mentality to drink vodka like its water!

they do seem to have a lack of respect for things like insurance, tax, nct etc... most of them have there cars here over 3 years and there still on foreign plates, isnt that illegal?

when there sober they appear to be pretty much like the irish driver

AMurphy

ds20prefecture wrote:

.......

People drive like idiots the world over, but in my experience the Irish are among the worst drivers, being careless, aggressive, competitive, uneducated and unskilled.

Well balanced (and unfortunately accurate) comments there. I don't know where the absolute worst is; but Shanghai, Bangkok and KualaLumpa are pretty bad by any standard. Don't think, Dub, Cork, Lim, are quiet at that level, but not far from it.
However, it is difficult to explain why in the midst of all this mayhem, HK, Singapore and Tokyo are congested and difficult without the other problems & mayhem you refer to.

C_Breeze

ds20prefecture wrote:

People drive like idiots the world over, but in my experience the Irish are among the worst drivers, being careless, aggressive, competitive, uneducated and unskilled.

among the most .......Aggressive??? competitive??? ...are you serious? HAHA

Id go so far as say , among the most dull , boring, braindeaed, robotic sheeplike drivers ever .

....but i like that, it sure beats driving in France etc where most drivers REALLY are competityive and aggressive.

...can u imagine actually being an everyday driver in Latvia ,Lituhania etc.

-now thats what id call agressive

spockety

Obviously it is unfair, and incorrect, to label an entire portion of the immigrant population as law breakers, drunk drivers, dangerous drivers, etc.

However, I think that in the case of East European registered car owners, this is a manifestation of the frustration felt by Irish people who see these cars on our roads.

This is a new area for us. Only 5 years ago I'd say it's quite possible there were literally no LV, LT, or PL plated cars in Ireland.

Now, when we see these cars on the road, I think many Irish drivers rightly ask themselves a number of questions about them:

1) Are they properly insured?

a) If they crash into me, can I make a claim against them?
b) Is it as efficient and easy for me to claim against a car with LT/LV/PL
plates as it is to claim against an Irish plate on Irish insurance policies.

2) I have to pay VRT if I want to import a car, why are they seemingly exempt?

a) Why have I seen that same LV/LT/PL car parked down my street for
the last 10 months, without them having to register for an Irish plate?
b) The owner is obviously working in this country, why is he not stopped
for not registering his vehicle and paying the same Vehicle Registration
Tax that I have to pay?

3) As the car isn't registered in Ireland, they don't pay tax. Why should they not have to pay tax to use the roads that I pay tax on? Is this fair?

4) It must be very dangerous to overtake in a left hand drive car, as you can't actually see the road ahead of you correctly in a lot of cases, yet I see many left hand drive cars performing overtakes in areas I would consider dangerous to do so even in a right hand drive car. Is this safe?

And so on.

We are frustrated because either the Gardai are not in a position to do anything about it due to current legislation, or they dont' have the resources.

Meanwhile, we have another high profile crash involving an East European driver in which innocent bystanders have died. Last year there was an equally high profile accident, where an East European registered vehicle was seen swerving dangerously on the M50, before it crossed the median and killed a mother and daughter in a head on collision.

Unless the above questions are answered by those in authority, people will continue to make generalised and sweeping statements when horrific accidents happen which involve EAst European drivers, or East European registered vehicles (or indeed not only when accidents happen, but every time we see one on the road).

J.

Atomic Pineapple

very good post spockety and probably bang on about how people feel about this.

if they done everything properly then very few people would have a problem with them.

Jumpy

spockety wrote:

2) I have to pay VRT if I want to import a car, why are they seemingly exempt?

a) Why have I seen that same LV/LT/PL car parked down my street for
the last 10 months, without them having to register for an Irish plate?
b) The owner is obviously working in this country, why is he not stopped
for not registering his vehicle and paying the same Vehicle Registration
Tax that I have to pay?

Because you are having the typical Irish reaction of 'Sure it'll be grand, someone will sort it out'

You have to do some work too, report them. I would.

LostinBlanch

AMurphy wrote:

Well balanced (and unfortunately accurate) comments there. I don't know where the absolute worst is; but Shanghai, Bangkok and KualaLumpa are pretty bad by any standard. Don't think, Dub, Cork, Lim, are quiet at that level, but not far from it.

No you want to go to China, I was near Shanghai earlier on this year, the worst driving culture I have ever seen. They will cheerfully move into any space whether it's on your side of the road or theirs, and think nothing of staying there, driving against the flow of traffic! Beijing wasn't so bad but only because there were more cops and they had barriers in the middle of the road to stop that kind of thing.

awishawash

This is not a word of a lie. My dad was driving through the spawell roundabout and a lithuanian plated car came on to it and into the side of his car. My dad pulled over and stuck on the hazards. The lithuanian car, sped off. The bumper was off the back of my dads car so he couldnt give chase, and anyway being elderly, probably would have got himself knocked around. These people are scum. Why are they in our country.

C_Breeze

awishawash wrote:

This is not a word of a lie. My dad was driving through the spawell roundabout and a lithuanian plated car came on to it and into the side of his car. My dad pulled over and stuck on the hazards. The lithuanian car, sped off. The bumper was off the back of my dads car so he couldnt give chase, and anyway being elderly, probably would have got himself knocked around. These people are scum. Why are they in our country.

Retaliate , by scoring their Hot women (they're surprisingly easy) !

I declare war!!!



But seriously , i kind off see your point. The reason they run off is coz theyre not insured properly and dont want to get into any legal hassle.
but with that said they should be A LOT more carfeull in those circumstances.

But funnily enough same thing happened to my dad at an intersection but wit another IRish reg car. My dad sped after him , caught him . Turns out wasnt insured AT ALL , and was drivin a relativley new car , not some **** heap, now whats more is he was a civil servant !! incredible , but my point is taht all people do these things not just LT LV etc - its just the great deal of focus thats being placed on them is why they stand out.

awishawash

F@ck the driving, how easy are these women and where can I find them!!

C_Breeze

PM me for details

Seth Brundle

Seanie M wrote:

Like, reading about that crash near Navan in the early hours of Sunday morning... I mean, how come the driver from Latvia could not have removed himself from our genepool before he took out 2 innocent pedestrians on a road, and let his backseat passanger fly through the windshield and get pegged into a tree?

Not meaning to sound like a biggot, but in the local papers every couple of weeks, there are perhaps 2 or 3 Latvian, and Lithuanian drivers in court for reckless driving, no insurance or tax and they just don't seem to care.

If I'm driving in another country, I'll abide by their rules of the road - why can't these immigrants?

Seanie...

From what I read, a car crashed and in the process one occupant and two pedestrians were killed. Thats pretty much all the info I know. Which article has said that either the driver or the car was at fault in this case?

rabbitinlights

Brilliant post spockety. Spot on.

thelurcher

ds20prefecture: You have a go at Seanie M and then make your own generalisation about Irish drivers - do you not see that you're doing exactly the same thing!?!?!

BrianD

Again were heading down the unnecessary racist path again. Nationality or colour has no bearing on your ability to drive competently. However there are some important issues raised by the horrific crash in Navan at the weekend.

a) The lack of Garda enforcement of drink driving is once again high lighted.
b) There is a serious loophole in non-nationals bringing in their cars when on a contract here. As you know this is all above board. However, I'm sure that their insurance policies are the same as ours - they only give limited coverage outside of the country of domicile. We need to change the law that any 'temporary import' needs to be 'registered' after 14 days and an insurance policy taken out that gives the type of coverage that is the usual for here.
c) VRT - I can live with out it being paid but perhaps they should pay the same as usual with the ability to reclaim it after one year and the car is out of the country.
d) Perhaps there should be some sort of restriction on LH drives - maybe even an identifying plate like a 'R' plate in the UK.

BTW people make general statement s because they themselves are generally ill informed.

ds20prefecture

thelurcher wrote:

ds20prefecture: You have a go at Seanie M and then make your own generalisation about Irish drivers - do you not see that you're doing exactly the same thing!?!?!

I'm sorry - I believe you have misunderstood my post.
a) I did not have a go at anyone. I have no idea who Seanie M is, and have no desire to offend him/her. I disagreed with the content of the post.

b) I do not believe I made any grave generalisations - I was trying to say that every country has it's fair share of bad drivers. If there are cars on the road of a country, I imagine it is fair to say that there are accidents. Accidents are not caused by cars, or weather conditions, or bald tyres. They are caused by drivers. In my opinion & experience, Ireland has more bad drivers than most, in that in a given 2 week period in a variety of countries, I have had "near misses" more often in Ireland than anywhere else.

ds20prefecture

b) There is a serious loophole in non-nationals bringing in their cars when on a contract here. As you know this is all above board. However, I'm sure that their insurance policies are the same as ours - they only give limited coverage outside of the country of domicile. We need to change the law that any 'temporary import' needs to be 'registered' after 14 days and an insurance policy taken out that gives the type of coverage that is the usual for here.
Agreed. Or your european insurance policy should provide equal cover in each country.

c) VRT - I can live with out it being paid but perhaps they should pay the same as usual with the ability to reclaim it after one year and the car is out of the country.
If the owner of the car has the car for more than 6 months in the original country of residence, they don't have to pay VRT.

d) Perhaps there should be some sort of restriction on LH drives - maybe even an identifying plate like a 'R' plate in the UK.
I absolutely disagree. LHD cars are not less safe than RHD cars. It is up to the driver to judge whether it is safe to overtake. If it is not, do not overtake. If you are unsure, do not overtake. By your argument, we should have a restriction on underpowered cars as well, because they are less safe when overtaking than, say, a porsche 911.

Gatster

The lithuanian car, sped off. The bumper was off the back of my dads car so he couldnt give chase, and anyway being elderly, probably would have got himself knocked around. These people are scum. Why are they in our country.

Last year a guy was driving down the side of The Star pub in Swords when he was knocked by a LT/LV plate car. He got out and the two guys in the LT/LV laid into him after a couple of minutes. At the end of it, he was on the floor unconcious. During this another LT/LV chap appeared and proceeded to knife the guy on the floor.

I have heard similar, but not quite as extreme stories from other people...in all the years I've lived here I had never heard anything like this before the influx of non-nationals, I'd say a large percentage are not insured, and even worse, don't care.

Seth Brundle

the words tar, everyone and brush spring to mind.
can we close this thread please?

DannyBoy.Lt

Seanie M wrote:

Like, reading about that crash near Navan in the early hours of Sunday morning... I mean, how come the driver from Latvia could not have removed himself from our genepool before he took out 2 innocent pedestrians on a road, and let his backseat passanger fly through the windshield and get pegged into a tree?

Not meaning to sound like a biggot, but in the local papers every couple of weeks, there are perhaps 2 or 3 Latvian, and Lithuanian drivers in court for reckless driving, no insurance or tax and they just don't seem to care.

If I'm driving in another country, I'll abide by their rules of the road - why can't these immigrants?

Seanie...

Blame me - i'm lithuanian.

Hobbes

I don't think anyone holds the majority of stupidty.

TBH most of the idiots I see on the road have 05/06 regs. Does that mean everyone with a new car can't drive? Well if you were just going by my sample of data the answer would be yes.

But it is unlikely to be true.

I can say however that the N3 is a bloody deathtrap. People are continually speeding on it. Or you have great people who take up the other lane as thier own personal driving lane.

This is no joke. I was on the N3 friday afternoon and I saw a white car over take another car in the distance. I am travelling at the limit. Its only a few seconds later I realise this guy is (a) Speeding and (b) not actually moving back into his lane.

I had to slam on the brakes to stop him from just missing me as he pulled in front of the car he was driving alongside on the road. Don't know if they were talking or the other driver was refusing to let him overtake but I do know it was luck there wasn't an accident.

Oh and they were Irish reg. Hard to tell a persons nationality at that speed.

Hobbes

I have heard similar, but not quite as extreme stories from other people...in all the years I've lived here I had never heard anything like this before the influx of non-nationals

Really? You are telling me there has been no crimes of violence or murder before non-nationals came to Ireland? o_O Where you living in your bedroom before then?

Seanie M

DannyBoy.Lt wrote:

Blame me - i'm lithuanian.

No, I don't think so... I do think you are a w@nker though.