US: 2x10: The 23rd Psalm [spoilers]

Anima

16

You're forgetting that Danielle knows about the monster. In 16 years, I'd say its safe to assume that shes seen it once or twice. Shes not going to mistake it for a fire off in the distance.

Catsmokinpot

23

doh.ie wrote:

So if the black plume was not started by Danielle, then the Others used that as their signal to get ready for the kidnap of Walt...?

id say thats exactly what it was, cant figure out why though.

maybe its part of the experiment they are doing, i mean they could be trying some sort of psychological study on them; guaging their reaction, seeing the smoke after all this wierd **** happen would freak them out possibly see how well prepaired they are (i mean thats way out there and has no basis on solid facts so dont shoot me down too hard) but if i am right, why didnt they use radios. cause the "other" that anna lucia killed had a radio on him....

sephirosis

So far there has been a huge number of events on Lost that would try to seem coincidence (character interactions in the past, the numbers, possible dharma logo on plane etc) so much so that its become fairly clear that they are not in fact coincidence. It also seems to be fairly obvious (and im probably going to regret saying that) that the characters were on that flight for a "reason", controlled by someone, and that the crash was no accident. Most of the "all encompassing theories" out there suggest that the characters are on the island for some form of experiment or test at the hands of dharma, and i agree in principle if not with the often bizarre particulars.
So if the characters were being manipulated by dharma even before the events of the show, it is not unreasonable to assume they were being monitored (maybe for suitability) by dharma. Throughout the flashbacks we see there could be a dharma presence shaping events.
So what im trying to get at is my explanation of the black smoke creature thing. It was said (by Danielle or Desmond i think) that it is some form of security system and i agree - I believe it is a system to protect the integrity of this experiment. To go back to what I said about dharma's surveillance, I think its not unreasonable to assume that they possessed pictures of their future subjects from the surveillance.
So when the security system encountered Eko and we saw inside it, I think the images we saw are dharma's images of Eko's past. The system is possibly designed to seperate test subjects from those who shouldn't be present (and possibly eliminate them). So upon encountering Eko, it does exactly what it is designed to do - it observes him and searches for him in the images in its memory, validates him as a test subject, and leaves him alone. This was probably also the case in Locke's encounter earlier on. The others that the tail survivors encountered were possibly used for a similar purpose, to weed out those not wanted. When Locke was attacked by the system late in the last season, maybe whoever is controlling it saw locke as too much of a threat, with his discovery of the hatch and such.
As to what the security system actually "is" behind the smoke, i'm not sure but i imagine its just some smallish mechanism with mehtod to move, observe and some way of making the "smokescreen". The same goes for what this test or experiment could be, i have no idea
Anyway i know this idea is far from perfect and I cant back up everything I said but I think its at least a little plausible. It is also, to a certain extent, a more "scientific" explanation to the ESP theories which in my opinion (but im willing to hear otherwise) is too sci-fi for such a huge mainstream audience. Any thoughts anyone, or any errors i made?

doh.ie

23

Catsmokinpot wrote:

but if i am right, why didnt they use radios. cause the "other" that anna lucia killed had a radio on him....

Wasn't this radio the one they found in the Dharma 'Arrow' hatch? It didn't belong to the Other (Goodwin) - they found it as a group. You're right that the Others' technology appears to go from decent (the boat) to nothing (no shoes), though.

doh.ie

23

I agree with most of your post, Sephirosis, except for:

sephirosis wrote:

When Locke was attacked by the system late in the last season, maybe whoever is controlling it saw locke as too much of a threat, with his discovery of the hatch and such.

If this was the case, why wouldn't Dharma just set the hatch to self-destruct once Jack and Co got inside. They must know the group are now in the hatch and have to allow it. I agree Locke was being taken by the monster in "Exodus" and that he had a different experience of it compared to his encounter in "Walkabout"; was he being taken to separate him from the other Losties, as opposed to killing him? Maybe Dharma wanted him out of the project and working for them?

sephirosis wrote:

Anyway i know this idea is far from perfect and I cant back up everything I said but I think its at least a little plausible. It is also, to a certain extent, a more "scientific" explanation to the ESP theories which in my opinion (but im willing to hear otherwise) is too sci-fi for such a huge mainstream audience. Any thoughts anyone, or any errors i made?

My fear on the scientific thing would be that the ESP theory (Dharma controlling the monster by ESP, Walt projecting himself, the monster 'reading' the minds of those it meets) is that the ESP concept is the absolute limit of what I'd even allow for a 'science' explanation. Anything beyond that (reasonable parapsychology) would be well in the realms of sci-fi.

We've already been presented with a bird flying into Walt's window and the possibility he might have unintentionally caused his mother's illness - I'd be content enough that telekinesis and the like might just about explain that kind of thing. But if it turned out the monster was explained away by fancy new military technology or something far-fetched, I'd be almost happier with the Dharma 'collective consciousness' causing it! So the science has to be both explainable and satisfying. The writers have a tough job making it both.

stevejazzx

doh.ie wrote:

We've already been presented with a bird flying into Walt's window and the possibility he might have unintentionally caused his mother's illness - I'd be content enough that telekinesis and the like might just about explain that kind of thing. But if it turned out the monster was explained away by fancy new military technology or something far-fetched, I'd be almost happier with the Dharma 'collective consciousness' causing it! So the science has to be both explainable and satisfying. The writers have a tough job making it both.

btw excellent work the breakdowns doh.ie

re: walts projections are not perfect due to the strong electromagnetic field and are reversed or jumbled because of such

lostexpectation

15

doh.ie wrote:

I agree with most of your post, Sephirosis, except for:

e've already been presented with a bird flying into Walt's window and the possibility he might have unintentionally caused his mother's illness -

when was that suggested?

doh.ie

23

lostexpectation wrote:

when was that suggested?

Came up here when we dicussed 1x14, "Special", I think. It's certainly not impossible being around him and any abilities he appears to have could maybe have caused a tumour or aneurysm, though so far there's no evidence to prove it.

sephirosis

doh.ie wrote:

If this was the case, why wouldn't Dharma just set the hatch to self-destruct once Jack and Co got inside. They must know the group are now in the hatch and have to allow it. I agree Locke was being taken by the monster in "Exodus" and that he had a different experience of it compared to his encounter in "Walkabout"; was he being taken to separate him from the other Losties, as opposed to killing him? Maybe Dharma wanted him out of the project and working for them?

Unfortunately i cant really think of an answer, since I cant think of what this study might be, though it does seem someone wanted Locke out of the scene. I never really considered the possibility of the hatch self destructing (I assume you're saying this because of the blast doors?), maybe either they are too important to the project to be killed off, or maybe the original dharma members are no longer in control, or maybe its just something as simple as the hatch can only be destructed from within, a kind of last defence to protect something?