quick question aboiut a reciever for my home cinema system

Morf3h

firstly is this the right forum? couldn't find anywhere else really.

Setting up a home cinema system with HD LCD televsion, 5.1 surround sound, dvd player/recorder, xbox 360 and NTL digital. I was wondering if you guys could reccommend a good reciever, if that's actually what i'm looking for. I was looking at something like the Sony STR-DB2000.

also is there a difference between a reciever and an amplifier?

thanks,

Morf3h.

Lump

This isn't the right forum - Home Entertainment is though.

John

Idleater

Morf3h wrote:

firstly is this the right forum? couldn't find anywhere else really.

Setting up a home cinema system with HD LCD televsion, 5.1 surround sound, dvd player/recorder, xbox 360 and NTL digital. I was wondering if you guys could reccommend a good reciever, if that's actually what i'm looking for. I was looking at something like the Sony STR-DB2000.

also is there a difference between a reciever and an amplifier?

thanks,

Morf3h.

Firstly you need to decide what your budget is and what that budget covers. For example, are speakers included in your budget?

€400-€500 should get you a decent Yamaha/Harmon Kardon amp.
One feature that you really want to look for in an amp that you are going to put all your equipment through, is upconversion. That way you only need one output to the screen (eg component or HDMI) and all inputs (composite svideo component etc) will all get converted to the output format.

Personally I don't like the sound from Sony amps and I think that there is better value elsewhere. The Yamaha rx-v767, 757, 747 are pretty good value for money.

If you want HDMI, then you are going to be talking a fair whack (€1200 and up buying on the net)

Have a read on www.avforums.com they have a good amp section and you will get an idea of what budget amps people are recommending and what features people are looking for.

As for the difference between a reciever and an amplifier - A Reciever should include a Tuner (radio) and an amplifier where as an Amplifier should in theory just be an amplifier.

L.

Morf3h

cool thanks. what's HDMI by the way and by up-conversion do you mean i should look for a "component" output on the back that has the red, blue green connections?

cheers

Morf3h.

pH

HDMI is the next generation of digital video connectivity. To get the most out of a moderm LCD/PLASMA/PJ you should use it to connect devices to your panel.

Upconversion normally applies to connecting say component cables from your receiver to the panel, and then connecting all the devices (DVD/VCR/PS2) to your receiver. If say you have a composite or s-video connection from one of the devices then the receiver "upconverts" this to component.

This has 2 advantages, you have a single cable going to the panel, and the amp can switch the picture and the audio at the same time.

However "state of the art" is now to have a HDMI connection from the amp to the panel. This means that far more complex image processing is required as the amp now needs to upscale and deinterlace say to 720p.

Idleater

pH wrote:

HDMI is the next generation of digital video connectivity. To get the most out of a moderm LCD/PLASMA/PJ you should use it to connect devices to your panel.

Well, though the benefits of HDMI are great, there is certainly a case for component.

There are numerous accounts of component providing a smoother and richer picture. In fact, arguments against digital signal for analogue matter are easily found on the net. For instance.

Anyway, all I am saying is there is nothing wrong with just getting a component switching amp. There are many many seriously high end recievers that only use component. See Rotel, NAD for example.

I am going to run HDMI and Component from the amp to the screen so I can choose on a per input/per instance basis which provides a better picture.

The one thing HDMI (or DVI) digital does give you is HDCP which will be used for some HD broadcasts in the future.

I would definitely recommend an upconverting amp (to component) though. This will definitely make use of the 360 HD picture.

L

pH

There are numerous accounts of component providing a smoother and richer picture. In fact, arguments against digital signal for analogue matter are easily found on the net. For instance.

You said numerous and that was only one! And it didn't work for me.
When CDs arrived, many cranks came out of the woodwork and said that vinyl was better for music.

Are there any authorative sources claiming that :

+ For digital source (Digital TV or DVD)
-> Going to a digital panel (Plasma, LCD etc)

That going through a DAC then via component, then through an ADC gives a better picture? Anyone seriously arguing that?

Lump

Technically Analogue can sound better, do to the harse ness of 1's and 0's. Many people argue that Digital sound is a lot harder, and it is.... technically.

However, with the hardness comes clarity. It's swings and roundabouts really. In the end of the day, digital is good for storing media longevity and what not) as far as the Is it better argument.... well the Camera lens is analogue, and converted to digits on the chip, the microphone is analogue.... and when it gets to the other end a human body is analogue. So Meh.



John

Idleater

pH wrote:

You said numerous and that was only one! And it didn't work for me.

+ For digital source (Digital TV or DVD)
-> Going to a digital panel (Plasma, LCD etc)

That going through a DAC then via component, then through an ADC gives a better picture? Anyone seriously arguing that?

No, I never said that. I said:

nereid wrote:

Well, though the benefits of HDMI are great, there is certainly a case for component.
There are numerous accounts of component providing a smoother and richer picture.

Digital TV signal (eg SkyHD)-> HDMI -> Digital Screen is fine
Digital TV signal in analogue form (eg from a NTL Decoder) -> HDMI -> Digital Screen depends entirely on the decoder, screen, amp, etc. aswell as being purely subjective as to what you want to watch. Harsh digital perfect pictures from cartoons are not as necessary or wanted as with say Lord of the Rings.

Reasons why analogue is as good as digital taken from the link in my above post:

• There is no reason why any degradation of an analog component video signal should occur even over rather substantial distances;
• Digital signal are not subject to error correction; once information is lost, it's lost for good.
• Scaling of digital signals is prone to "blocky" ness. (ie a 720p signal is scaled to 768 actual lines native on HD screen); this introduces delay and screen processing. Analogue signals are easier to shift and scale.
• "Digital to digital" conversion is no more a guarantee of signal quality than "digital to analog," and in practice may be substantially worse. Whether it's better or worse will depend upon the circuitry involved -and that is something which isn't usually practical to figure out.
• Analog component video is an extremely robust signal type; DVI and HDMI connections, are subject to the "digital cliff" phenomenon and as stated earlier, there is no way of reproducing the original signal.

Anyway, the moral of the story is to simply try all the different connections on all your pieces of equipment and see which is nicer for you to watch.

L.

Lump

• Digital signal are not subject to error correction; once information is lost, it's lost for good.

AAHAHAHAHA What a load of crap.

John

Idleater

Lump wrote:

AAHAHAHAHA What a load of crap.

John

erm yes, HDMI/DVI has no provision for error correction...

L.

Lump

Yes, but the machine playing back a digital source will have error correction (Cd = Table of contents) also if a 1 is cut in have it's still a 1.... however in analogue, if a curve is cut off, the amplitude of the wave isn't known, hence giving more distorted sound.

John

Idleater

Lump wrote:

Yes, but the machine playing back a digital source will have error correction (Cd = Table of contents) also if a 1 is cut in have it's still a 1.... however in analogue, if a curve is cut off, the amplitude of the wave isn't known, hence giving more distorted sound.

John

Right, I think we are both correct but both our points refer to different components in the chain.

I agree that Digital media such as CD and DVD have got error correction in them (which is what you are saying).
However, HDMI as a digital medium and protocol for connecting two devices together does not have error correction built into it, so if there is any error introduced to the signal when it is in transit along the HDMI cable between (eg the DVD player) and the TV then there is no way for the screen to restore the signal if the data has been corrupted. Component cables and signalling are more robust in this regard.

L.

Lump

No.... With a digital connection, there has to be total signal distruction to loose it. With Analogue... if a wave is cut off half way, then the receiving system can't determin the amplitude.

For a piece of equipment receiving a digital signal it's easy to recompose a slightly damaged signal.... a 1 is a 1 if it's lost 99% of the signal, a 0 is a 0 if it's lost 99% of the signal.

Right. Enough of that.

John

Sparky

if anyone is going to be getting an upscaling amp that outputs in HDMI, they'd want to have well over €1500 to spend, my amp only accepts composite (wish it was s-video )
but is good for the xbox and ps2.

Calibos

Yamaha RX 2600 @ about 1100 euro

Sparky

Calibos wrote:

Yamaha RX 2600 @ about 1100 euro

is that the price if purchased from america?, i havnt seen it over here yet

Idleater

Calibos wrote:

Yamaha RX 2600 @ about 1100 euro

Sparky-s wrote:

is that the price if purchased from america?, i havnt seen it over here yet

I'm looking into getting this amp. Been into Peats and they said they are getting numerous queries about this amp (they have the 4600 in their demo room) but still no sign. I asked them on a rough price and based on their 2500 and 4600, it will be about €1500.
The cheapest places that I have seen them advertised on the internet are in Germany. I am planning on looking in Holland/Belgium too. Between £800 and £900 in England, it works out quite expensive in € to get it from there.

L