Liverpool - Spurs (match thread)

Davei141

I dont think its fair to say alonso had an off game, him and sissoko stopped davids and carrick from playing in Liverpools half. It was a cracking battle though.

Thanx 4 The Fish

SofaKing wrote:

Well lots of teams have realised that stopping Alonso will stop 'Pool for long periods of play. Yesterday, i think Spurs had Tainio shadowing Alonso, thus denying him time and space to do his stuff. Luton used a similar tactic last week, which paid dividends.

True and yet both teams lost. Liverpool have quality all over the pitch devote all your time to one and another can step up to the plate. 16 shots to 6 sort of puts the lie to your view that it pays dividends also.

jesus_thats_gre

Keeping tabs on one player will only work for so long.. Teams try kicking Arsenal or man marking Henry out of the game.. They try the same with Ruud or Rooney.. If you have quality in every position, you will get the breakthrough regardless of what the opposition do..

therecklessone

el rabitos wrote:

good to see i'm not the only one who remembers all the spurs fan talking up the fact that they would be taking a champions league spot at the expence of liverpool, 5 games into the season :rolleyes:

now if anyones talking bollox, it was spurs fans, who proceed to talk more bollox by expecting people to be gracefull in victory. sorry, i'll be gracefull next week, win lose or draw because at least man u or chelsea or arsenal have WON something to merit their big talk.



and if you cant even win the carling cup with your team then we'll all be disappointed when our guts fall out our ass's from laughing. ****, no spurs are already knocked out of everything.

if anyone needs to be gracefull its spurs fans, generally u dont talk up your team like their such a threat unless they've actually done something to merit such a reputation

now, having said that, one day, maybe soon, spurs will be in a good strong postion to challenge chelsea, arsenal, man u and liverpool....for the fa cup

Thats it, keep talking out your arsehole and maybe someday you'll wonder why all the ABUs are suddenly ABLs...

This is why I hated Liverpool all through the 80s, mouthy fans who don't know when to let it lie.

segadreamcast

el rabitos wrote:

good to see i'm not the only one who remembers all the spurs fan talking up the fact that they would be taking a champions league spot at the expence of liverpool, 5 games into the season :rolleyes:

now if anyones talking bollox, it was spurs fans, who proceed to talk more bollox by expecting people to be gracefull in victory. sorry, i'll be gracefull next week, win lose or draw because at least man u or chelsea or arsenal have WON something to merit their big talk.



and if you cant even win the carling cup with your team then we'll all be disappointed when our guts fall out our ass's from laughing. ****, no spurs are already knocked out of everything.

if anyone needs to be gracefull its spurs fans, generally u dont talk up your team like their such a threat unless they've actually done something to merit such a reputation

now, having said that, one day, maybe soon, spurs will be in a good strong postion to challenge chelsea, arsenal, man u and liverpool....for the fa cup

Can you not just let the football do the talking? I'm sick of people dragging up quotes from coaches/pundits and, for the love of God, fans, from several years ago... what does it matter what they said? What matters is what's happening on the pitch. Liverpool won - but Spurs are still a good team in their own right, and put up a decent resistance against Liverpool.

therecklessone

NoelRock wrote:

Can you not just let the football do the talking? I'm sick of people dragging up quotes from coaches/pundits and, for the love of God, fans, from several years ago... what does it matter what they said? What matters is what's happening on the pitch. Liverpool won - but Spurs are still a good team in their own right, and put up a decent resistance against Liverpool.

Thanks Noel, its people like you who I was talking about last night when I commented on Liverpook showing grace in victory. People who can act like an adult and talk about the football instead of jumping up and down thumbing their nose at the vanquished foe. Long may that continue.

The Muppet

therecklessone wrote:

Thats it, keep talking out your arsehole and maybe someday you'll wonder why all the ABUs are suddenly ABLs...

This is why I hated Liverpool all through the 80s, mouthy fans who don't know when to let it lie.

Every club has them Ronan , the liverpool one's have only resurfaced this year for some reason.;)

therecklessone

The Muppet wrote:

Every club has them Ronan , the liverpool one's have only resurfaced this year for some reason.;)

Must be the fair weather Tom...;)

el rabitos

you critisize me for getting annoyed with stupid coments then u and the aptly named muppet start making them yourselves

jump off the high horse man

mayordenis

therecklessone wrote:

This is why I hated Liverpool all through the 80s, mouthy fans who don't know when to let it lie.

i think its because you're bitter

RE*AC*TOR

mayordenis wrote:

i think its because you're bitter

I think you might be on to something there.

therecklessone

mayordenis wrote:

i think its because you're bitter

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I think you might be on to something there.

Both wrong. Liverpool deserve to be where they are right now, 2nd best team in the country IMO, not far behind Chelsea. Never begrudged anyone their success, only dislike people who crow about their success and act like children in the process.

jesus_thats_gre

Drop it lads will ye..

galwaydude

WWM i read it in one of those tabloids.Shame on me!!!

Anyways i have no beef with spurs fans at all.They are a fantastic club and on the right track and in martin jol they have a very good manager.

I think the reason why some of us passionate liverpool fans get so rowled up is because of all the abuse the team got over the years as liverpool were s**te for ten years and its only since last season when rafa arrived that things are finally coming together.

Anyways Apologies to any spurs fans if my comments offended them. You cant blame me for been passionate about the team i follow.

therecklessone

galwaydude wrote:

WWM i read it in one of those tabloids.Shame on me!!!

Anyways i have no beef with spurs fans at all.They are a fantastic club and on the right track and in martin jol they have a very good manager.

I think the reason why some of us passionate liverpool fans get so rowled up is because of all the abuse the team got over the years as liverpool were s**te for ten years and its only since last season when rafa arrived that things are finally coming together.

Anyways Apologies to any spurs fans if my comments offended them. You cant blame me for been passionate about the team i follow.

Fair play. :cool:

By the way, you thought you were sh1t? Try 20 years of mid-table mediocrity (and no guarantee its past us yet...;) )

redspider

Lost my post on this one, yes, several pages of it and I cant get it back alas, damn tabs, wont rewrite it .... yes, I know, no tears being shed!

short version:
interested in Spurs this season, good players, playing well: Kea, Mido, Dav, Car, Daw, Rob
Liv 4-4-2
Liv deserved Win, my rating 58-42 for match (not 50-50)
Good goal Kewell, otherwise ok
Good save Reina
Strikers (Crou, Mori) missed chances (as usual)
Finnan good
Backs + midfield good, Siss a good donkey
why Kromkamp for 30 secs, waste of time

Liv 44 pts, 20 games, Man U also had 44 pts from 20
But Liv have played 11 H, 9 A, Man U now 10 H, 12 A
tough matches ahead, ManU, Che, (Wig?), Henry FC
Target could be 1, 1, (3), 1: 6 pts from 12
likely to lose at least 1, if not two, can beat the Arse and ManU
important for minds not to get "hammered" at Che, no 4-1

Liv still on target for 3rd, and for a top-4 finish, 2nd not beyond them,
but will depend on CL and/or Cup run, and the Strikers !!


redpider

p.pete

redspider wrote:

Liv deserved Win, my rating 58-42 for match (not 50-50)

What the hell is that? Is that something you always do but gets lost among the pages? What are the numbers based on (briefly)?

redspider wrote:

Backs + midfield good, Siss a good donkey

A bit harsh on Sissoko Can't wait to see what he's like next season, doing really well so far and can only improve with age and experience!

redspider wrote:

why Kromkamp for 30 secs, waste of time

An introduction to the crowd maybe? New player, let him run out onto the pitch at the end and get the applause from the crowd so he'll be more settled when he does start? Waste a few seconds?

redspider

p.pete wrote:

1. What the hell is that? Is that something you always do but gets lost among the pages? What are the numbers based on (briefly)?

2. A bit harsh on Sissoko Can't wait to see what he's like next season, doing really well so far and can only improve with age and experience!

Do I take it that you dont read my long versions then? ;-) (mwah)

1. In my lost version I mentioned that the game was more like a 60-40, than a 50-50 as someone mentioned, and just to be "awkward" I rated it as 58-42. I dont have a formula to rate the "deservedness of a match", but I'm sure we could work one out based on scoreable chances, by using a rating system for each scoring chance and indeed the goals themselves. It would be based on subjectivity, well, until a software based rating system is built which would be difficult but not impossible in time I would imagine.

2. I outlined that he did a good job at breaking up the play in midfield, who as a unit (apart from Kewell perhaps) were responsible for breaking up any building threats from Spurs. (Kewell is used more for his attacking attributes). Sissoko was all legs and was good at getting in the way, intercepting and tackling, and for once not fouling so much, so playing like a good donkey. Thats his job, and he does it well, but he is not a creative player.

redspider

p.pete

redspider wrote:

Do I take it that you dont read my long versions then? ;-) (mwah)

1. In my lost version I mentioned that the game was more like a 60-40, than a 50-50 as someone mentioned, and just to be "awkward" I rated it as 58-42. I dont have a formula to rate the "deservedness of a match", but I'm sure we could work one out based on scoreable chances, by using a rating system for each scoring chance and indeed the goals themselves. It would be based on subjectivity, well, until a software based rating system is built which would be difficult but not impossible in time I would imagine.

2. I outlined that he did a good job at breaking up the play in midfield, who as a unit (apart from Kewell perhaps) were responsible for breaking up any building threats from Spurs. (Kewell is used more for his attacking attributes). Sissoko was all legs and was good at getting in the way, intercepting and tackling, and for once not fouling so much, so playing like a good donkey. Thats his job, and he does it well, but he is not a creative player.

redspider

Or the traditional rating system, 1-0
And god forbid we'd ever let a bad donkey into the team, he'd ruin the turf

redspider

p.pete wrote:

Or the traditional rating system, 1-0

Yes, very traditional, but severly lacking in valuable information for players and managers and analysts.

Liverpool 1-0 Spurs
Roma 1-0 Milan

not the same!

Redspider

p.pete

redspider wrote:

Yes, very traditional, but severly lacking in valuable information for players and managers and analysts.

Liverpool 1-0 Spurs
Roma 1-0 Milan

not the same!

Redspider

And 60-40 (or 58-42) says what now?

Thanx 4 The Fish

This give an idea of possession, shots taken, saves made in the game.

So for example a weighting of two for a goal.
1.5 for shots on target.
1 for shots off target
1 for possession.
.5 for corners.
.25 for frees.

Add em up and express the result as a percentage.

This could give the information that I think red is trying to put across, gives an idea of the balance of the game where the result may not.

redspider

p.pete wrote:

And 60-40 (or 58-42) says what now?

Its just an opinion, its not based on anything or any actual measurement.

Maybe I forgot to put in my smiley:
"Yes, very traditional, but severly lacking in valuable information for players and managers and analysts. ;-)"

Dont be at yourself

And god forbid we'd ever let a bad donkey into the team, he'd ruin the turf

Heskey?

Vokes

Im well impressed with Sissoko thus far. His main role seems to be running interference for Alonso(ala American Football), giving Alonso time/space to dictate the game. I think his 9 yellow cards + 1 red would support this theory

The Rooster

I think Sissoko's main role is to kick people. He's damn good at it too. Exactly what say Arsenal need (and probably got in the transfer window if reports are accurate).

The most important stat of the game is Liverpool ended up with 3 points. The better team - Yes, the more chances - Yes, but the best chance of the game came to Keano (maybe the best 2 chances of the game, but uncannily like the Liverpool defence I lost concentration in the last few seconds of injury time and I didnt see a replay of his late chance!).

Spurs are a very good side. No question about it. If they keep positive and believe in themselves they'll challenge very closely for a CL spot. And I very much doubt they'd be one season wonders like Ipswich and Everton were in the past.

p.pete

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

This give an idea of possession, shots taken, saves made in the game.

So for example a weighting of two for a goal.
1.5 for shots on target.
1 for shots off target
1 for possession.
.5 for corners.
.25 for frees.

Add em up and express the result as a percentage.

This could give the information that I think red is trying to put across, gives an idea of the balance of the game where the result may not.

Well, no.
If you weigh everything up and put lots of effort in and present things neatly as a well thought out number what exactly are you providing?

You still have to look behind the number of 60 - 40 (or 17.5 - 12 or however it'll look) to get anything meaningful out of it. Being told liverpool won 1-0 is more useful then being told that based on stats Spurs actually edged it 23 to 21.5.

Fair enough if someone wants to take into account possesion, shots on target and off, etc. but adding all the factors, weighting them and presenting it as a number is pretty much useless.

TBH, I do sometimes do something similar when i'm looking at players to buy for fantasy football - but stats are more useful there. I look at their average points per game minus their best and worst scores and then multiply it by a coefficient for how tough their next few matches will be. The coefficient is based on summing the league positions of their next five games say - so it'll be a high coefficient and thus a heavy multiplier if the next few games are against teams at the foot of the table.

I don't see its merit in assessing an individual match though, the scoreline is important. After that if someone is interested they can look at the individual stats and make their own mind up.