[article] Stalwarts of unionism must adapt and change to survive

Maskhadov

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=TOM%20MCGURK-qqqs=commentandanalysis-qqqid=11034-qqqx=1.asp

Stalwarts of unionism must adapt and change to survive

15 January 2006 By Tom McGurk
The ‘Love Ulster' campaign is heading south.

Led by Willie Frazer, spokesman for victims' group Families Acting for Innocent Relatives (FAIR), the group is coming to protest outside the Dáil. What exactly it is protesting about is somewhat unclear: there's a litany of the usual grievances post-Good Friday Agreement but, on television recently, Frazer said they wanted to find out if the South really believed in equality for all.

That subtext is presumably to do with testing the tolerance of the citizens of Dublin with a march containing six Orange bands and the usual Union Jack-waving ragbag of hangers-on.

At this point, two things are important to emphasise: firstly, that peaceful protest should be tolerated, and secondly, that it would be a dreadful mistake to react to the provocation that is somehow inimical to Orange parades.

Since, in the first instance, Orange parading in the North was always about public displays of territorialism, it is important that the marchers discover that Dublin is not a series of territories but an authentic public space for citizenship.

On one level, I'm sure there will be vast curiosity from Dubliners, who rarely get an opportunity to see live 18th century political theatre. On another, there will be a profound poignancy to the whole occasion.

Frazer's ragged army, a living museum piece of a long-past imperial age, deserves our compassion, not our contempt. Over a century, as the imperial tide has ebbed away from this island, the last loyal tribe now finds itself trapped on a small disappearing sandbank they call ‘Ulster'.

Unable to contemplate moving into deeper waters to effect their rescue, they simply sit there now - generation after generation - solemnly saying no. Since 1998, the rescue boats have been hovering nearby, but to no avail.

Shivering in the 21st century winds that blow from all directions, they have simply wrapped themselves in the last remaining mantle of sectarianism and refused to budge.

Remarkably, there is not among them now a single voice who would dare articulate the extraordinary moment of both political and economic regeneration that awaits them, had they the wit to see it. Not 20 minutes from Frazer's door sits one of the wealthiest economies in the world.

Where once the border divided a poor, mostly agricultural South from a heavily subsidised but wealthier North, now it divides economic achievement from economic failure. One economy has become the envy of Europe; the other has become a basket-case.

Where are those apparently traditional Northern protestant virtues of hard work, enterprise and economic self-sufficiency that we once used to hear so much about?

Indeed, what shade now are the “grey skies of an Irish Republic'‘ so beloved of the Sandy Row graffiti artists?

London is now showing all the signs of a deep impatience with Northern Irish unionism. In the context of the past war, any reassessment of the North's relationship with Britain would have been seen as a concession to violence. But now, in the absence of violence, and with a united Irish nationalist voice demanding a devolved power-sharing in the North - in tandem with a new and growing cross-border economic relationship with the South - the context is entirely different.

The days of the North having a favoured economic status in comparison to regions of Britain are coming to an end, hastened by continuing unionist political intransigence. With its vast dependence on public service employment and a steadily growing subvention of over stg£5 billion a year from the British treasury, the shoe is beginning to pinch.

Northern secretary Peter Hain has already sent signals of his displeasure, and he has deliberately presented them as an addendum to the forthcoming attempt to re-float the political structures.

Even worse, the social and economic crisis within traditional unionist heartlands is beginning to fragment what were once homogenous, civic and thrifty communities. A ‘loyalist subculture' largely overseen by the remnants of the loyalist paramilitaries has transformed these communities into what might be termed a trailer-park world. Unemployment and educational underachievement are everywhere and, even from the unionist middle classes, the brain-drain to British universities continues.

The lament that “our Protestant culture is being trampled on'‘ simply illustrates that the old heady brew of sectarian triumphalism will no longer be tolerated either by the authorities or by nationalists.

That particular tide was stopped at Drumcree, and was finally turned back during last year's Ardoyne riots.

When one also considers that any ongoing progress towards equality of citizenship and cultures in the North is now being depicted by unionism as a ‘concession to Sinn Féin', the sheer scale of their political bankruptcy becomes evident.

And whatever about a David Trimble-led UUP attempting the task ahead, the prospects are slim that the DUP under Ian Paisley can face up to a political legacy which it was primarily responsible for creating.

And now there is a new side to this ancient political Rubik's cube. The recent decision to reduce local government to seven super-councils, three of which are west of the Bann, raises a new scenario in the context of future stalled political progress. The temptation to devolve more and more power to this tier of local government could create a Celtic Tiger-esque knock-on effect in the nationalist-dominated councils west of the Bann.

Already, the town of Newry is benefiting from its geographical hinterland, and the newM1 motorway is already radicalising employment options in the wider region. Mid-Ulster and the border regions would then have an opportunity for growing economic linkage that will have inevitable political implications.

Daily, the unionist political sandbank grows smaller. Maybe it's a vain hope but even Willie Frazer's bedraggled army, as they process through Dublin, might sense the waters beckoning beyond.

I totally agree with Mc Gurk. The northern protestants are living in an ivory tower (on a sand bank). The orange order is something akin to the KKK.

The unionist leaders should take this oppurtunity in Dublin to make a public appology to the nationalist community in the north and the people in the south .

Flex

Excellent article.

flogen

It's a one sided article but it does make some good points.

The fact is, however, the Unionists will not switch sides for any economic gain, would you?
I think it's time both sides stopped being so childish and realised they need to get along if either of them want to survive. The Irish government is just as unwilling to keep the North afloat as the British are, if anything were to happen here it would be that both governments turn their backs.
Northern Ireland would have a fighting chance at a strong economy if it had a government to lay the foundations for one.

LordSutch

Whats it with you and the North "Maskhadov" you seem to be popping up all over the place with Northern threads! fair enough I suppose if you are actually from the North, but with a name like Maskhadov maybe you are a Russian Spy?

Maskhadov

Im only trying to stimulate discussion ArthurF. I just seen the name on the news one day and thought hows that for a name:D.

murphaph

Maskhadov wrote:

Im only trying to stimulate discussion ArthurF. I just seen the name on the news one day and thought hows that for a name:D.

....and it's an anagram of Vodka Sham!

Zebra3

I wonder will there be members of the Orange Order proudly marching against terrorism given the huge support they've gladly taken from the UVF and the Ulster Dealers Association over the years. (I won't even mention King Rat's LVF).

Will they stand up and condemn the British government for their collusion in America's mass murder (and theft) in Iraq? :rolleyes:

gurramok

Zebra3 wrote:

I wonder will there be members of the Orange Order proudly marching against terrorism given the huge support they've gladly taken from the UVF and the Ulster Dealers Association over the years. (I won't even mention King Rat's LVF).

Its only a certain type of terrorist the orange order dislike, namely from the 'other side'.

Flex

Zebra3 wrote:

I wonder will there be members of the Orange Order proudly marching against terrorism given the huge support they've gladly taken from the UVF and the Ulster Dealers Association over the years. (I won't even mention King Rat's LVF).

Will they stand up and condemn the British government for their collusion in America's mass murder (and theft) in Iraq? :rolleyes:

I think theres gonna be more members of the Orange Order 'marching' than actual relatives of victims. Seems like a big sham to just have an orange order parade in Dublin

LordSutch

Flex wrote:

I think theres gonna be more members of the Orange Order 'marching' than actual relatives of victims. Seems like a big sham to just have an orange order parade in Dublin

Dunno if I agree with you on this point "Flex", I mean to say maybe it will be a very genuine March/ Parade to remember the Victims! and if thats the case then fair enough - after all, we did have to tolerate the Shinners rubbing everybody's noses in it (Remember the Sinn Fein/IRA Rally) in Dublin only last Summer when they transported coach loads of supporters down from the North, not just to commerate their fallen "terrorists" but to celibrate their Armed Struggle! (Now thats what I call disgusting).

SkepticOne

Although the article was very interesting and entertaining, I don't think it makes sence to suggest that unionists should 'adapt and change' since the very core of their position is that they not accept certain changes, specifically moves towards greater union with the south.

Flex

ArthurF wrote:

Dunno if I agree with you on this point "Flex", I mean to say maybe it will be a very genuine March/ Parade to remember the Victims! and if thats the case then fair enough - after all, we did have to tolerate the Shinners rubbing everybody's noses in it (Remember the Sinn Fein/IRA Rally) in Dublin only last Summer when they transported coach loads of supporters down from the North, not just to commerate their fallen "terrorists" but to celibrate their Armed Struggle! (Now thats what I call disgusting).

Well 'ArthurF', I agree with you that if it was actually a parade for victims then Id see no problem whatsoever with it. But, heres what i think the real reason or plan behind this parade is

*Its being styled as a parade for victims, when in fact there will be a massive orange order presence. (Needless to say many many people find the orange order provocative). So the idea might be to claim this is a victims parade so when/if people 'react' to the orange order parad... ahem...I mean presence, then Willie Frazer and the DUP and FAIR can head back up north and say "Oh ya see!!! ya see!!! The poor innocent relatives of victims wanted only to march and have a parade to remember victims but the intolerant south wouldnt allow them to. So in a united we (unionists) would be doomed!!" (When in fact people would probably really only be opposed to the orange order presence).Thus increasing support for hardline unionist party, the DUP. Thats just my opinion though.

Cantab.

This parade is a cunning and well-calculated political trick that is ultimately about marching up north. The unionists are using a grandious parade masked as 'a cross-border intitiative' to give them political justification for marching down sensitive roads in Belfast.

They'll turn around next summer and say 'if we can march in Dublin, the capital of the republic, why can't we march down the Falls road?'

If the Dublin parade goes ahead, book your holidays early and get the hell out of this country for the July marching season.

Flex

Cantab. wrote:

This parade is a cunning and well-calculated political trick that is ultimately about marching up north. The unionists are using a grandious parade masked as 'a cross-border intitiative' to give them political justification for marching down sensitive roads in Belfast.

They'll turn around next summer and say 'if we can march in Dublin, the capital of the republic, why can't we march down the Falls road?'

If the Dublin parade goes ahead, book your holidays early and get the hell out of this country for the July marching season.

Yes, thats another probable outcome

LordSutch

Flex wrote:

Well 'ArthurF', I agree with you that if it was actually a parade for victims then Id see no problem whatsoever with it. But, heres what i think the real reason or plan behind this parade is

*Its being styled as a parade for victims, when in fact there will be a massive orange order presence. (Needless to say many many people find the orange order provocative).

Provocative? Why are the Orange Order Provocative? how many people did they exterminate in the Troubles?
What I found really distasteful was the Sinn Fein/IRA rally in Dublin last Summer - "That really was a disgrace" and lets face it they really
Were responsible for many hundreds of deaths in the Trioubles, and to be honest I did feel a little sick as they menacingly marched passed in
Full "IRA Paramilitary" regalia to the sound of drums - and so, I hope to attend the Orange Parade in Dublin (not to glorify the Orange order),
but to genuinely Remember the Victims of the IRA!

Flex

ArthurF wrote:

Provocative? Why are the Orange Order Provocative?

Is that a joke?

I hope to attend the Orange Parade in Dublin (not to glorify the Orange order),
but to genuinely Remember the Victims of the IRA!

Yes to remember the 'real victims' who were 'really mainly unionist folk', right? Any nationalists going to be in attendance, since people from the nationalist community were murdered by the IRA too.

But nah, Im sure a parade being organised/attended by the likes of Willie Frazer, DUP representatives, love Ulster, FAIR and the orange order with their kick-the-Pope band couldnt possibly have an ulterior motive.

Kilsally

Interesting article dispersed with numerous inaccuracies.
The march is a victims march organised by Willie Fraziers FAIR, supported by WRUC (a Belfast womens group), Love Ulster and the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland amongst others. The six bands are not "Orange" bands, the Orange Order has no power over them. THe bands have also been curtailed by the organisers from well over 20 who wanted to go.Bands are bands and they have their own elected officers to deal with their day to day business, bills and whatever. Grand Lodge has asked for Orangemen to support this demonstration but has also called for no Orange regalia to be worn stating that Orangemen should attend the rally as individuals supporting the victims grouos and not as Orange Lodges.

The demonstration was primarily about the On-The-run legislation which would allow the perpetrators of the Omagh bombs and indeed the dublin and Monaghan bombings get away with murder without ever having to serve a day in prison. It is also about Unionist disenfranchisement with the Good Friday Agreement, not anti-peace, all parties support the peace process but some consider the GFA to be faulty and also the Southern governmetn to be hypocritical to keep the killers of Garda McCabe in jail yet call for the release of the killers of Northern Ireland Police Officers and calling for Sinn Fein to be in Government in NI whilst ruling it out in the South. It is not intended to be intimidating. It is simply a political demonstration. It has been mooted that a Tri-colour will also be flown adn invitations have been sent to some TD`s to try and broaden the scope of the event.

Kilsally

Flex wrote:

their kick-the-Pope band couldnt possibly have an ulterior motive.

You know that do you?
I highly doubt you will see a "blood and thunder" type band at this demonstration. I would assume the six bands will be entirely tasteful with Pipe, Accordian and Silver bands being likely candidates perhaps playing hymns.

Kilsally

I've removed your signiture from those posts as its way too big and breaches the boards.ie guidelines for signitures.

Please read this thread for whats allowed and down size the pictures accordingly.
Otherwise theres an automatic script run by the admin team here that will wipe your sig automatically.

Thank you

Sponge Bob

Kilsally wrote:

I highly doubt you will see a "blood and thunder" type band at this demonstration. I would assume the six bands will be entirely tasteful with Pipe, Accordian and Silver bands being likely candidates perhaps playing hymns.

A pity we will not get any 'billy boy' bands to show in Dublin , the traditional orange band is a bit tame nay respectable and its the billy boy mob and their knuckle dragging tattooed special brewed and skinheaded brethern (and thats just the women and children ) who cause almost all the parades trouble in the north anyway not the trad bands with respectable suppporters .

Its almost like the parade in Dublin is not meant to be representative of reality

ghostdancer

ArthurF wrote:

Provocative? Why are the Orange Order Provocative? how many people did they exterminate in the Troubles?

they're provocative as they march through areas where they're wanted to antagonise local residents, waving banners glorifying UDA/UVF, who, among many other murders, murdered people in Monaghan and Dublin in 1974.
they also encourage rioting when they don't get their way.

how many did they exterminate? well the organisation isn't involved with that, so probably none, it does have members who are heavily involved in Loyalist Paramilitaries who murdered plenty of people during the troubles.
luckily no-one was killed when various members of the OO were captured on camera waving samuari swords at riot police over the summer. no doubt about it though, the OO is made up of complete scumbags, some of whom standing shoulder to shoulder with you in Dublin as you selectively remember victims of the Troubles.

Kilsally

"they're provocative as they march through areas where they're wanted to antagonise local residents, waving banners glorifying UDA/UVF, who, among many other murders, murdered people in Monaghan and Dublin in 1974."

Firstly no they dont and I challenge you to provide a picture. You might find a "kick the pope" loyalist band doing so but you will not find and Orange lodge doing so. Secondly the protest in Dublin IS ABOUT the terrorists being allowed to go free without conviction or serving any jail term, INCLUDING the Monaghan and Dublin Bombers (as the Republics government was also due to implement the Amnesty). The legislation has now been abandoned due to the uproar North, South and in the UK which means any terrorists Loyalist or Republican INCLUDING the dublin and Monaghan bombers and the Omagh bombers will have to serve two years and then possible be released under the Early Release Scheme of the Good Friday Agreement. Even that is disgusting but a darned site better than the OTR legislation.

"how many did they exterminate? well the organisation isn't involved with that, so probably none, it does have members who are heavily involved in Loyalist Paramilitaries who murdered plenty of people during the troubles."

Well the University of ulster CAIN site breaks things down like this:-

Summary of Religion of the person killed: Religion_Summary Count
Catholic 1522
nfNI 715
Protestant 1286
TOTAL 3523

2002 Catholic 5
Protestant 11

2003 Catholic 6
Protestant 6

2004 Catholic 2
Protestant 3

2005 Catholic 6
Prostestant 6

Total Catholic 1541
Total Protestant 1312
Not from NI 715
TOTAL 3568

Up to 2001
British Security 363
Irish Security 5
Loyalist Paramilitary 1020
not known 80
Republican Paramilitary 2055
TOTAL 3523

Kilsally

ghostdancer wrote:

the OO is made up of complete scumbags,

I suggest you go ahead and watch some of the streaming video over at www.orange-order.co.uk to see how offensive (not) an ordinary Orange Order parade is folks.

gurramok

Kilsally wrote:

I suggest you go ahead and watch some of the streaming video over at www.orange-order.co.uk to see how offensive (not) an ordinary Orange Order parade is folks.

Yes, we seen them in action at Drumcree and more recently Whiterock where they engineered massive violence to overturn a lawful parade ban.
The forces of law and order despite the numerous attacks by these thugs stood firm for once.

Dave!

Excellent article indeed!

Diorraing

Kilsally wrote:

I suggest you go ahead and watch some of the streaming video over at www.orange-order.co.uk to see how offensive (not) an ordinary Orange Order parade is folks.

No need really - just listen to the lyrics of their songs:
Derry down down - Croppies Lie Down.
Not offensive at all. I mean if catholics marched down the Shankill singing:
Huns Lie Down, you wouldn't be offended at all Kilsally.

Kilsally

Diorraing wrote:

No need really - just listen to the lyrics of their songs:
Derry down down - Croppies Lie Down.
Not offensive at all. I mean if catholics marched down the Shankill singing:
Huns Lie Down, you wouldn't be offended at all Kilsally.

aye i hear that one all the time. NOT.
try hymns, The Star of County Down, Irish Rover, The Sash, Derry`s Walls, Orange Lily O, The Sash, even heard The Great Escape and also Coronation Street. If you go back far enough you do find lyrics like "croppies lie down" but not a long time.

Kilsally

gurramok wrote:

Yes, we seen them in action at Drumcree and more recently Whiterock where they engineered massive violence to overturn a lawful parade ban.
The forces of law and order despite the numerous attacks by these thugs stood firm for once.

hmm 2 parades out of 3000 every year, one at an interface type area and the other on a main road into Portadown. suggest you watch the drumcree video over at that site too in the orange order folder of the streaming video.

Diorraing

Kilsally wrote:

aye i hear that one all the time. NOT.
try hymns, The Star of County Down, Irish Rover, The Sash, Derry`s Walls, Orange Lily O, The Sash, even heard The Great Escape and also Coronation Street. If you go back far enough you do find lyrics like "croppies lie down" but not a long time.

Not according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croppies_Lie_Down

Let me give you a direct quote: "The song is famous, or notorious, for being sung by members of the Orange Order in their parades"
Turns out they do sing it. Biggots

Kilsally

Diorraing wrote:

Not according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croppies_Lie_Down

Let me give you a direct quote: "The song is famous, or notorious, for being sung by members of the Orange Order in their parades"
Turns out they do sing it. Biggots

Never heard it ever. Secondly they dont sing on parade at all. Thirdly it doesnt actually mention religion or anything else. "Croppies" meant people with closely cropped hair, a fashion associated with the anti-aristocrat (and therefore, anti-wig) French revolutionaries. which like I say may have been sung a long time ago when the Orange Order was anti-Unionist, pro Dublin Parlaiment Anglican ascendancy before the act of Union adn before Presbyterians were allowed to join the Order, which up until that point was quite aristocratic but is now working class.

Diorraing

Kilsally wrote:

Never heard it ever. Secondly they dont sing on parade at all. Thirdly it doesnt actually mention religion or anything else. "Croppies" meant people with closely cropped hair, a fashion associated with the anti-aristocrat (and therefore, anti-wig) French revolutionaries. which like I say may have been sung a long time ago when the Orange Order was anti-Unionist, pro Dublin Parlaiment Anglican ascendancy before the act of Union adn before Presbyterians were allowed to join the Order, which up until that point was quite aristocratic but is now working class.

Oh so its OK to go around singing Croppies Lie Down because croppies isn't a derogotary term: Its just like singing Catholics Lie Down - Thats harldy offensive is it? You seem to have selelctive hearing because this is the song most closely associated with the order and the one I have heard sung most from their biggoted lips.