How I (a father) got full custody.

frobisher

I originally posted this as a reply to another post but am putting it up alone so it's easier to find for any fathers faced with losing their children through the inherently unfair Irish custody system. (I hope the repost is ok with the mod's!). Feel free to PM.

I have direct experience of this and I now have full custody of my son. I hope some of my experience can be of help.

It's a very, very difficult situation. Your actions now will have reprecussions that will affect you and your child for the rest of your life. You need to be very objective and you need to tread very carefully.

I'm a 32 year old man with a 12 year old boy with a girl from another country. She really wanted to return home and it was agreed that our son wanted to stay here so he would therefore live with me. At the last minute she changed her mind and said she was taking him. I told her she couldn't to that. And then realised that she certainly could.

In custody law there is no such thing as father or mothers rights there are only childrens rights. Everything is geared towards what is best for the kids, not the parents. The reality of this is that the man very rarely wins as there is a profound presumption in Ireland that kids are best with their mothers. No matter how just your cause or how good your lawyer you will not change this, trust me, just accept it and deal with it.

If a mother was a convicted theif and the dad a respected doctor he still wouldn't get full custody. It is horrible but true. Not only can someone take your child away from you, there is nothing you can do about it. It hurts like hell. It's also worth bearing in mind that a huge amount of fathers in situations like this leave the mothers and children high and dry. The courts are faced with horror father stories everyday, unfortunatley the good ones suffer as a result.

Custody battles are the absolute lowest form of reaching concensus. Whatever glimmer of a relationship you have with your ex will probably be destoyed. By their very nature and with such high stakes they can get very, very messy. Nice people can become very nasty and peoples names and reputations get dragged through the mud.

I decided I needed to get clever, put my immediate hurt aside and think long term. It was clear for the sake of my son and myself I was going to have to avoid court at all cost. I knew I'd lose and that my son would have 2 parents who hated each other so what was the point? So I rang her one day and said Ok, you can have him but I want to talk it through with you and work out how we are going to do it. She couldn't believe it. To be honest it killed me, I felt like I was letting her walk all over me but it meant that dialouge was back on the table. So we met once or twice and I asked her to go into mediation sessions with me ( http://www.aimfamilyservices.ie ). She agreed to this, in fact she was glad of it. Mediation was very good and I offered her nearly everything she asked for. As a result she had to reciprocate and she was left with no option but to be as fair as I was being. Eventually we reached an agreement that was infinitely superior to anything I would have achieved through the courts. The story continued to take alot more twists and turns but the simple reality is that he is now living with me full time and had I gone to court I'd barely be seeing him.

No matter what happens just focus on how you can have the best relationship possible with your child whatever the outcome of it all. It's understandable that you will be angry and hurt but don't let that rule you. It will only go against you.

I wish you all the best with it. Feel free to PM me anytime.

Soledad

Can I ask if his mother went to live in another country and if/when your son sees her?

frobisher

Soledad wrote:

Can I ask if his mother went to live in another country and if/when your son sees her?

Yes, she has returned to her home country. She sees him at holiday times over there and she comes here when she can.

Dennis

I also have full custody. From Judge Mary Martin in Carlow about 5 years ago.
I completely agree with Frobisher that the arrangements have to be made in advance between the parents. My son was only two at the time so his input was not considered!
Any talk of "custody war" and "battle" with the ex will mean that you are not ready for a court appearance let alone a successful outcome.
I brought up my son from day one, night feeds included, the judge obviously realised this and placed the custody with the me, the prime carer. The judge also heavily restricted access, I told her that I disagreed and that access would never be denied. For a couple of years my ex rarely wanted any access but gradually she built it up to two and sometimes three nights a week. (Though not without some grief :-( at times.
My son is 10 now and enjoys a great life with both parents very much part of his life. I still have full custody and my ex enjoys liberal access agreed between us. If it had been left entirely to the legal system it would probably not have happened and my son would certainly be a lot worse off because of it.
Dennis

brown*eyed*girl

Nice to see some happy endings for you Dads.

gubby

I wonder about grandparents!!!
Our daughter came home to live with us 3 yrs ago with her little girl. They have a happy secure home here. My daughter allows access as often as possible. The father lives about 100 miles away and when he does get to have the little girl for the weekend he lets her with his parents while he goes out with his friends. This is ok as the other grandparents are very loving and good to her.. however, she is always very upset and cranky for a few days after returning home. My question is. If, god forbid, something happend to my daughter.. if she died. Would our granddaughter HAVE to return to her fathers care?? is there anything my daughter can do to make sure her daughter can remain here at home with us.

luckat

As far as I know (which isn't very far, tbh) grandparents have no rights to their grandchildren, nor do grandchildren have any rights to their grandparents. So unless you could do some kind of adoptive gig.... but maybe talk to a specialist lawyer, rather than to us online types?

stol3n_lif3

I'm 26 and i've a little girl of six.. but sadly i only get to see her on the weekends..

her mother is shacked up wit this wierd violent and abusive idiot... and he's forever breaking up the house or beatin my daughters mother black and blue..

I reported it to the gardai and the social.. but within a week i was up in court on some very serious charges to of which no parent in their right mind would do...(long story)

one day i had my daughter and her mother was badly beaten that morning and she reported it to the police.. come six o clock that evening i had the gardai at my door demandin i hand over my daughter or i was getting six months inside on a kidnapping order...

Now all i can do is accept wot the courts and the judge say.. accept the orders from her mother and take ridicule constantly...


My question here is..
Does it look like i have a chance on gaining full custody??
or jus keep on accepting everything as usual...

you tell me..

Nevyn

Legally grandparents can become gaurdains of thier grandchildren and Gubby your daughter can name you in her will as who she wishes to have her daughter if anything happens.

stol3n_lif3 that is an appaling story and the rights and needs of your daughter should come first.
Unfortunatly we don't have a system that asseses which parent is best for a while to be living with in terms of main custody.
We don't have enough socail workers as it nevermind the extra work load family assesments would be.
I would suggest you keep a record of everything that happens and get legal advice.

akaanon

stol3n_lif3 wrote:

one day i had my daughter and her mother was badly beaten that morning and she reported it to the police.. come six o clock that evening i had the gardai at my door demandin i hand over my daughter or i was getting six months inside on a kidnapping order...

Based on what the first poster said, the law here is geared towards the child, what is in the best interest of the child.
You say in your post that the mother of your daughter reported to Gardai when she was beaten. That is evidence that her current partner is a danger to both mother and child.
If he is still around, when you are looking for custody, I would imagine you have a decent chance of getting custody.
Also solicitors in this country can be rubbish, a lot of them need to be told exactly what to do. So I guess you will need to be prepared to do some research. Look for previous cases, similar, these can always be used.
Good Luck.

Zaph0d

This is a great story. I know a family lawyer who says that her clients all come to her with the same line- "I want to destroy that bitch/bastard." Some lawyers become arrogant from watching their clients destroy each other at great cost because they lack the maturity to reach a negotiated agreement

A lot of people see compromise as weakness but it takes real strength to put the needs of your child above your own anger.