being fair to celtic poker

Culchie

spectre wrote:

That's fine but how can they make money on tournaments like this? There is usually five tables so they earn about E250 in registration. I don't see how this could even cover their costs. I'm estimating the dealers knock up about 15 manhours. There's also the food provided as well as numerous overheads.

Fair enough, they are getting people into the club, many of whom will end up playing on the gaming tables and cash games. I'm guessing that this is where most of their profit comes from?

Nail on head.

Alot of the cash game players treat the >50 buy in tournaments as a way to pass the time until the cash games kick off. €20+5 players become €50 and €100 players very quick, so it's a neccessity to have a tournament like this.

Anyways, I'd probably bet that the €20+5 prize pool would be higher than the €50+10 scalps, or very close, so it's not bad at all.

Fitz is 100% above board with prize pool.

Degag

Bp! wrote:

I was Lenny yeh, last night was my second time at them, mullingar was their first night i think, it has changed, i think i was moved 5 times in the freezeout stage which made it all the harder to get a feel for the players, nah it has improved since mullingar (they still dont race chips though) but it still is 100% "whose the luckiest person here tonight" tournament without a doubt, once the freezout starts , players who ammassed chips earlier arent rewarded and y
our edge goes out the window very fast...they have introduced antes since i played before, i honetsly cant recommend going to them...the value just is not there regardless of feckin spot prizes etc. (a set of chips? thanks ill add them to the pile :v: )

They offer to many rebuys and blinds increase too fast, they start at 25 min blinds which just about makes up for the self dealing but they drop the blinds clock down to 20 minutes once antes are introuduced (whos all in a rush to get home once all the money has been takin it???)

Did the blind levels stay at 20 minutes thereafter? In the first two cpt tournies they were at 10 minutes, but i'm not sure what they were at my last visit because they had done some restructuring regarding the blinds.

jem

DeVore wrote:

Getting 10k on a 2500 starting stack is silly and it was the one flaw in the recent trip to tipp imho.

DeV.

As I said to you at the time it wasn't my idea and was announced before I could do anything about it. I would have agreed to increasing it to 5k/6k .
However in fairness it was done for all the right reasons in that it was to give players more play but still wrong and won't happen again.

Bp!

Tackle69 wrote:

Did the blind levels stay at 20 minutes thereafter? In the first two cpt tournies they were at 10 minutes, but i'm not sure what they were at my last visit because they had done some restructuring regarding the blinds.

As far as I know they did stay at 20 minutes yeh, with the running antes roughly one player was droppin per hand

Its possible they dropped the blinds later (when down to heads up maybe), they was about 25 left when i left nearing 2 o clock

Hitman Actual

david-k wrote:

the reason so many people play imo is that outside of the main population centres there is little or no organised poker on a regular basis so its simply a matter of choice.

Exactly. Plus, most of these players are nervous about playing in casinos, which is a pity because they would learn a hell of a lot more about the game without being ripped off.

Regarding rebuy tourneys in general, some players in this thread seem to approach them with the attitude of having as few buy-ins as possible. This is a big mistake, I think. If you're going to play a rebuy game, you have to be prepared to use all your buy-ins if neccessary, otherwise you're just hurting your chances.

Bp!

lenny_leonard wrote:

Exactly. Plus, most of these players are nervous about playing in casinos, which is a pity because they would learn a hell of a lot more about the game without being ripped off.

Regarding rebuy tourneys in general, some players in this thread seem to approach them with the attitude of having as few buy-ins as possible. This is a big mistake, I think. If you're going to play a rebuy game, you have to be prepared to use all your buy-ins if neccessary, otherwise you're just hurting your chances.

Theres no doubt the bulk of players going to CPT is due to having no other choice, also its probably not too far off to think a good percentage of people who are attending them are unware of boards.ie or any other Irish forums so would be clueless to all the talk of CPT on the net and how they are in fact being dogged by "the house"

Its not a bad thing that these people get to play in tournaments they other wise wouldnt get a chance to, if only CPT listened to the like of boards and went about in an honest and open way it and didnt take so much of a cut for themselves, even if they just published one thread on an Irish forum disclosing all details of their business in an honest way...ie how much of their nightly take are they holding townards their €100,000 (i think) grand final, how much they take as direct profit etc or even were open to suggestion to help all involved, it could only benefit players and orgainisers

As a side Question, what is their payouot for top 4 finshes? Is it still the same as their first night? Where they took in around €27,000 and gave 4th €500 for beating over 240 people :eek:

Culchie

Bp! wrote:

As a side Question, what is their payouot for top 4 finshes? Is it still the same as their first night? Where they took in around €27,000 and gave 4th €500 for beating over 240 people :eek:

Puke.

How can these be trusted with the €100k they are holding for their tournament. What's to stop them high tailing it to Thailand for 3 years?

Is there any legally binding contract between the 'prize/ticket' winner and Celtic Poker Tours?

Dub13

Culchie wrote:

Is there any legally binding contract between the 'prize/ticket' winner and Celtic Poker Tours?

I would seriously doubt they are even a registered company.If they were they would be paying a lot of tax.

Bp!

Culchie wrote:

Puke.

How can these be trusted with the €100k they are holding for their tournament. What's to stop them high tailing it to Thailand for 3 years?

Is there any legally binding contract between the 'prize/ticket' winner and Celtic Poker Tours?

I have no idea, all i know is its due to be held sometime in May and only winners of the event and people who win a ticket through satelites can enter , somewhere in the region of 120 players or there abouts

VEGAS NIGHTS

david-k wrote:

the reason so many people play imo is that outside of the main population centres there is little or no organised poker on a regular basis so its simply a matter of choice and i'd like to think that once people become aware of what an organised and fair tourney is that they simply stop going, sadly i doubt that will happen anytime soon.
QUOTE]


Amanijeanns-
I think this is a very fair point. Most pub tourneys I've seen advertised have 'ENTRY FEE €25' in big capital letters and 'and rebuys' beside it in small print. Topups are often not mentioned. I'd suspect that it would probably fall foull of advertising.
_________________________________________________________________________________


Poker is huge in the mid-lands!!!! They are playing tournys with CPT etc. I organised a tournament in Carlow for last Thrs. I had three news paper adds, over 50 posters around the town and an add in two different local newsletters. In my advertising I expressed the difference between what we do and these multi-rebuy tournys. I explained how the tourny was E25 entry ( E20 into prize pool & E5 reg). This was a one rebuy OR top up with max spend E50. Also how one rebuy will encourage tight play and over time this will improve poker skills and become a more enjoyable game.

We had a fantastic venue which realy suited poker athmosphere. I explained the total transparency with funds in terms of no. of chips in play = total cash with break down.


Howmany showed up?... "nobody" not even one person.

Don't get me wrong....... while it was dissapointing to make the journy etc. I'm not complaining here. I'm making the point that these people don't konw the difference. They are attracted to these tournys by the big prize pools advertised and are not aware of the fundamental elliments that make a quality poker tournament.

As a wise old man once said- "Ours is not to reason why, Ours is just to do and die".

califano

Maybe its because the more you try to convince these people you're up front the more they think you must be crooked. Reverse, psychology like?.

Maybe put 2 posters up in the town saying something like

"Poker on this friday
€25 entry
Come if you like".

RoundTower

VEGAS NIGHTS wrote:

I explained how the tourny was E25 entry ( E20 into prize pool & E5 reg). This was a one rebuy OR top up with max spend E50. Also how one rebuy will encourage tight play and over time this will improve poker skills and become a more enjoyable game.

I think you need to reconsider what people want out of a poker tournament.

Ste05

That's a very good point vegasnights, to these people Poker is just gambling pure and simple, they don't care about what the organiser makes, or value for their entry fee, they only see the prize money work out those odds of potential pay-off and think if they get lucky they can make a big score.

Poker is not viewed the same way that we know it to be by the majority, it's just another form of gambling that is all the rage at the moment. It's viewed just the same way they (and I'm sure we all have done it ourselves) would go down to the pub for an afternoon and bet on the horses or the match on the telly.

They see the top prize and don't care about the pay-out structure or value they're getting, because "Poker is just gambling" they view it as something that's possible to be good at it, but they put that down to reading people and not odds, betting patterns, etc. etc., therefore it's a gift, a la Wayne Rooney would equate to Phil Ivey, i.e. it's a natural gift and something that can't be learnt and developed (P.S. It's just a comparison, no need to go into how Ivey is a natural, etc. but we know you can try to become as good as him, by learning, developing your game, etc. but you can't try and get as good as Rooney, unless you already have a natural gift).

hmmmm, Just thinking there, it's a bit Off Topic, but, does anyone think this is correct?? (the bit that you can try to become as good as Ivey, or is it just a natural ability for these lads were born with??)

VEGAS NIGHTS

RoundTower wrote:

I think you need to reconsider what people want out of a poker tournament.

I think you're right.

I'm gona start a thread as such. (See you there)

cardshark202

Ste05 wrote:

hmmmm, Just thinking there, it's a bit Off Topic, but, does anyone think this is correct?? (the bit that you can try to become as good as Ivey, or is it just a natural ability for these lads were born with??)

I think that calls for a new thread.

DeVore

Yes, this thread is veering wildly off course. Please take side line discussions to new threads (as they deserve!).

DeV.

bolleex

i think all the abuse cpt gets is just sour grapes from all those nerds who never do or never will win a cent from any tournament group anywhere. you need good discipline at poker. you shud never whinge wen u lose.

i find cpt great. 12k pot is good
most of ye wont win any so shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:p

5starpool

You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

NickyOD

bolleex wrote:

i think all the abuse cpt gets is just sour grapes from all those nerds who never do or never will win a cent from any tournament group anywhere. you need good discipline at poker. you shud never whinge wen u lose.

i find cpt great. 12k pot is good
most of ye wont win any so shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:p

Raddison Hotel Limerick last night. 10K paid out. 13.5K approx taken in. Effectively 35% reg for a tournament with no dealers. I also heard they had tattered paper decks on some tables. Nuff said.

The CPT are a disgrace and they can kiss my ass.

jtsuited

bolleex wrote:

i think all the abuse cpt gets is just sour grapes from all those nerds who never do or never will win a cent from any tournament group anywhere. you need good discipline at poker. you shud never whinge wen u lose.

i find cpt great. 12k pot is good
most of ye wont win any so shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:p

evidently a member of mensa

cooker3

In fairness it is a 26% reg but yeah still a disgrace!

Bp!

bolleex wrote:

i think all the abuse cpt gets is just sour grapes from all those nerds who never do or never will win a cent from any tournament group anywhere. you need good discipline at poker. you shud never whinge wen u lose.

i find cpt great. 12k pot is good
most of ye wont win any so shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:p

Isnt it funny to see this poster askin this Q in another thread

bolleex wrote:

is the prizepool capped at 30k or will it extend with more buyins for sundays 250 FREEzeout

Hypocricy etc etc ...YAWN

actually maybe not hypociricy but YAWN all the same

Thanks for the input

NickyOD

cooker3 wrote:

In fairness it is a 26% reg but yeah still a disgrace!

129 runners. They also already paid €5 reg. Lets say average punter takes one reby and one top up so average spend is €105.

€105*129 = €13.5K

5starpool

Yes, but cooker is right not that it matters.

26% of 13500 is ~3500, so 74% was paid out.

NickyOD

5starpool wrote:

Yes, but cooker is right not that it matters.

26% of 13500 is ~3500, so 74% was paid out.

whoops!!! I only get out of bed at 7pm these days.

Crumbs

35% reg = 26% rake

Dub13

I think this is a case for Detective Tom....

Goodluck2me

its actually amazing how much publicity the CPT get on here, intentional it obviously is not, but i reckon some people are bored with no alternatives saying " ah sure it couldnt be that bad, could it?"... they are a cowboy outfit though tbf.

Lafortezza

Locked.