Dave Kitson for Ireland?

dcarroll

Think I saw in a paper today that Stan was gonna try get him playin for Ireland? Anyone know if this is even true, I have never even heard him mentioned for Ireland before, how Irish is the chap? (the hair is a bit of a give away though!)

whiskeyman

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=24397

Not too shabby.... one of the players Stan hopes to get under the "Granny Rule"... and will probably use Bobby to get him to declare.
We could well be seeing Trundle too!

dcarroll

Oh no, this could mean we no longer have the joy of watching Gary Doherty "playing football" for Ireland

scuba steve

dcarroll wrote:

Oh no, this could mean we no longer have the joy of watching Gary Doherty "playing football" for Ireland

ha ha!

Kingp35

whiskeyman wrote:

We could well be seeing Trundle too!

About time too!!

whiskeyman

Kingp35 wrote:

About time too!!

Just checked.... he hasnt scored since the end of Nov.
Is he too busy showboating?


Will be very interesting to see the new blood brought in.
I'm looking forward to seeing this news squad come together.

MrJoeSoap

Doyle before Kitson, please!

kensutz

dcarroll wrote:

Oh no, this could mean we no longer have the joy of watching Gary Doherty "playing football" for Ireland

This begged for a comment from me. Doherty has been in brilliant form with Norwich. He's won quite a few man of the match awards and since the start of the season he looks a completely different player with new found confidence. AND as a matter of fact he is playing as a defender for us.

Töpher

whiskeyman wrote:

Just checked.... he hasnt scored since the end of Nov.
Is he too busy showboating?

Has he not been injured?

cournioni

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Doyle before Kitson, please!

That was the first thing that came into my head when I saw this thread.

p.pete

Apparently Stan was at the Reading match at the weekend (from a guy in work who has a season ticket). My first guess was that he was looking at Doyle but I guess he could have been looking at Kitson also...

Big Nelly

whiskeyman wrote:

Just checked.... he hasnt scored since the end of Nov.
Is he too busy showboating?

Can't score when he is not playing. Out with an injury

zAbbo

two things, what is he at trying to coax Stephen "Sunbed" Carr out of retirement, when he has one of the best right backs at his disposal(Steve Finnan) and if he wants an understudy either Joey O'Brien(not his natural position i know) or Stephen Kelly.

While Dave Kitson is class, It seems a kick in the teeth to Doyle.

cournioni

Finnan has been shíte for Ireland any time I've seen him.

BillyBoy

zabbo wrote:

While Dave Kitson is class, It seems a kick in the teeth to Doyle.

I didn't see any article about this but I am assuming that it does not say that he will pick Kitson ahead of Doyle?? He is just trying to get Kitson to play for Ireland, under the granny-rule, which increases the amount of talented youngsters we have.

Have to admit when I saw the name Kitson I had a terrible image of Paul Kitson playing for Ireland. :eek:

PHB

Any extra decent player is benefical to the squad, but I agree about Doyle, the guy is going to be a premiership player soon, so he should be up there.

The Rooster

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Finnan has been shíte for Ireland any time I've seen him.

Because he's usually played out of position. Carr has been shíte when playing in his best position, and week in week out Finnan is superior to Carr in the league.

wheres me jumpa

the showboat is coming to town...

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0117/trundle.html

super_furry

wheres me jumpa wrote:

the showboat is coming to town...

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0117/trundle.html

He's definately someone who could do a job as an impact sub.

shepthedog

The more quality players Ireland get the better!! By getting some good players coming over Stan could get some v good PR..

Jonny Arson

If Doyle misses out on the Ireland squad to a ''Plastic Paddy'' teamate I'll will go ape.

Why oh why are we going back to the plastic paddy route! Ok we have had succeses but for every success we have had a Gary Doherty. I think Kitson is a smashing player who will do well in the Premiership but Doyle is on a par with him at least. IMO Doyle is an all round better palyer.

MrJoeSoap

PHB wrote:

the guy is going to be a premiership player soon, so he should be up there.

So should Daryl Murphy be in the Ireland squad by that reckoning?

Benedict XVI

I don't think that there is any suggestion about picking Kitson over Doyle.
All he is doing is looking at possibility of Kitson being availabe for Ireland.

Maybe he was in Reading to look at Doyle and found out that Kitson could qualify for Ireland.

A bit like what Charlton did back in 1986 at Oxford Utd. Went to see Aldridge (or Houghton) and found out that Houghton (or Aldridge) could also qualify.

Therefore Satn is the next Jack Charlton.

d22ontour

If only he is prolific as Aldridge was then we will be sorted.Did it take Aldridge 40 games to score his 1st international goal ?

Bring on kitson and any other player not good enough to play for their own countries and forget our own players.

MrJoeSoap

Its all just rumours anyway, Stan could just as easily have been there to watch Kevin Doyle.

shepthedog

d22ontour wrote:

If only he is prolific as Aldridge was then we will be sorted.Did it take Aldridge 40 games to score his 1st international goal ?

Bring on kitson and any other player not good enough to play for their own countries and forget our own players.

Chill out man... Are you saying you would deny someone their heritage just cause they werent born here?? Does that make their Irish Heritage false?? I dont think so..

IMO All players eligible for Ireland should be considered. Yes its great to see Irish born and bred players in the first team but if they're not then its down to who the better player is..

Also yes I think Doyle will be a top player for Ireland and look forward to seeing him in the Premiership next season.

KdjaCL

shepthedog wrote:

Chill out man... Are you saying you would deny someone their heritage just cause they werent born here??

I would deny any player who hasnt 1)Been to ireland 2) Played here at any level fom under 7 up. 3)found Ireland on a Map.

Thank **** i dont make the rules eh? We would have to have **** team full of Irish people playing for their country and not **** 3rd division English players who havent a hope in hell of even looking over a wall at an England training session. So declare for ireland to get a better contract/transfer.


Lucky FIFA agrees with you and feels any **** player should be able to "come over" and play for us, regardless of above. But hey once we qualify .....



kdjac

~Rebel~

In reality i can't see how anyone could see these rumours as anything but a good thing. Just because people can be considered for ireland doesn't mean they will be guaranteed a start every week at the expense of equally good irish players. All it means is we have a better squad of players out of which to pick our best 11. Maybe this time around we'll have some people we can bring off the bench who can actually turn things around and make an impact as opposed to throwing on the Doc up front and praying. Can anyone honestly say they would have been against being able to bring on Kitson instead of Doc against the Swiss? I would've even prefered Connolly for gods sake. Bigger and better quality of the squad can only be the better for the team.

Jivin Turkey

For all those calling for Doyle's inclusion ahead of Kitson (if eligible of course) let's put a bit of perspective on it.

Doyle:
Starts (Subs) / Goals - 26 (7) / 12

Kitson
Starts (Subs) / Goals - 19 (4) / 17

Now I know it's only the English media/public that build up players , but to me there is not a shred of doubt who should be included ahead of who if there were only a single space left in the Ireland squad, and I'll give a hint, it's not Kevin Doyle.

That said if we can get both, I'd jump at the chance.

Draupnir

The best players play for Ireland, simple as. If they qualify as per the rules thats good enough for me.

As someone else said, not in the same context, once we qualify!

MrJoeSoap

Jivin Turkey wrote:

For all those calling for Doyle's inclusion ahead of Kitson (if eligible of course) let's put a bit of perspective on it.

Doyle:
Starts (Subs) / Goals - 26 (7) / 12

Kitson
Starts (Subs) / Goals - 19 (4) / 17

Now I know it's only the English media/public that build up players , but to me there is not a shred of doubt who should be included ahead of who if there were only a single space left in the Ireland squad, and I'll give a hint, it's not Kevin Doyle.

So? Doyle is Irish, Kitson isn't.

Give me a decent Irish player over a non-Irish player of any calibre any day.

That said if we can get both, I'd jump at the chance.

Well we can certainly get one.

Jivin Turkey

MrJoeSoap wrote:

So?

So, Kitson appears to be a far better player than Doyle. He has been banging goals in for a few years now, and steadily improving his goal ratio and the level he is doing it at.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Doyle is Irish, Kitson isn't.

Well according to reports/speculation both are eligible for Ireland, which is all that matters.

Who cares if Kitson was not born here?

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Give me a decent Irish player over a non-Irish player of any calibre any day.

Well according to the rules, both are "Irish". Would you consider say Roy Keane's children "non-Irish" just because they were not born here?

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Well we can certainly get one.

True. Let's hope we can get the better one also.

MrJoeSoap

Jivin Turkey wrote:

So, Kitson appears to be a far better player than Doyle. He has been banging goals in for a few years now, and steadily improving his goal ratio and the level he is doing it at.

No argument there, except that Doyle has not had the length of time to prove himself at Reading, but had quite a good record for Cork.

Well according to reports/speculation both are eligible for Ireland, which is all that matters.

Yep, both potentially eligible.

Who cares if Kitson was not born here?

Me.

Well according to the rules, both are "Irish". Would you consider say Roy Keane's children "non-Irish" just because they were not born here?

I would consider them primarily English, as they haven't lived in Ireland. Their "second nationality" would of course be Irish.

True. Let's hope we can get the better one also.

Here's a scenario for you. You've been a footballer for 5 or 6 years, and have recently shot into the limelight after moving to England from Ireland (a country where you have grown up and lived all your life). You have a desire to play for your country, as all sane footballers do, and lots of people are touting you for the Irish squad.

You get a call-up, get a feel for the whole set-up and leave a happy man, despite not having played, yet hopeful that you will have another try soon.

A new manager is appointed, who makes it clear that he is looking into foreign born players who may have grandparents or parents from Ireland. Some of these people may rarely, if ever, have set foot on Irish soil. One such player happens to be your strike partner at your new club, a thoroughly English lad, who will realistically never play for his country of birth.

Now, heres the thing. Who is more deserving of a chance?

Jivin Turkey

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I would consider them primarily English, as they haven't lived in Ireland. Their "second nationality" would of course be Irish.

So in order to be "Irish" in your eyes you have to have lived here?

So what about a Japanese man who comes to live here and work here, is he more "Irish" than say the children of a professional Irish footballer (in England)? The only reason the children don't live here is due to the profession of their father, they could still be raised as Irish as they come.

Recent legislation passed here now means that even birth in this country does not entitle one to "Irishness", and rightly so IMO, but we are going waaaay off topic to continue this discussion.

As football rules state, Kitson is as Irish as Doyle.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Here's a scenario for you. You've been a footballer for 5 or 6 years, and have recently shot into the limelight after moving to England from Ireland (a country where you have grown up and lived all your life). You have a desire to play for your country, as all sane footballers do, and lots of people are touting you for the Irish squad.

You get a call-up, get a feel for the whole set-up and leave a happy man, despite not having played, yet hopeful that you will have another try soon.

A new manager is appointed, who makes it clear that he is looking into foreign born players who may have grandparents or parents from Ireland. Some of these people may rarely, if ever, have set foot on Irish soil. One such player happens to be your strike partner at your new club, a thoroughly English lad, who will realistically never play for his country of birth.

Now, heres the thing. Who is more deserving of a chance?

Both are equally deserving of a chance as long as both will fight for the shirt, and will do so for the right reasons.

I fail to see how this is comparable to the Doyle/Kitson scenario. You have madea a lot of assumptions.

MrJoeSoap

Right fair enough, we've completely differing opinions on this. In my eyes you have to have lived in Ireland for a period of time to be considered Irish, the grandparents rule is mostly exploited by weaker countries like ourselves. Its no coincidence that the players we generally get to play for us are the ones who aren't good enough for their own country.

dr zoidberg

Draupnir wrote:

The best players play for Ireland, simple as. If they qualify as per the rules thats good enough for me.

As someone else said, not in the same context, once we qualify!

It's not even FIFA's rule. All FIFA say is that you need to be able to get a passport and citizenship to play for that country. Thanks to our ridiculous citizenship law you're guaranteed a passport if your granny is Irish but you can be born here and not get one.

I don't have a problem with it. We need as many quality players as we can get.

Jivin Turkey

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Right fair enough, we've completely differing opinions on this.

I wouldn't be so sure.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

In my eyes you have to have lived in Ireland for a period of time to be considered Irish

I disagree with this.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

the grandparents rule is mostly exploited by weaker countries like ourselves. Its no coincidence that the players we generally get to play for us are the ones who aren't good enough for their own country.

I agree with this.

The main point of my original post however was that should Kitson be officially declared eligible, he is far more deserving of a call-up based on performances than Doyle. Having said that, I would love to see both in the squad.

MrJoeSoap

Jivin Turkey wrote:

The main point of my original post however was that should Kitson be officially declared eligible, he is far more deserving of a call-up based on performances than Doyle. Having said that, I would love to see both in the squad.

Well I'm of the opinion that Irish-born and bred players should have first preference. I guess thats where we differ.

BillyBoy

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Well I'm of the opinion that Irish-born and bred players should have first preference. I guess thats where we differ.

I agree with you MrJoeSoap in this situation. However do you beleive that a mediocre Irish-born player should get preference over a better player who is not irish-born (not talking about the Doyle/Kitson situation btw)?
I for one would like to see both Doyle and Kitson in the squad. Stan hasn't come out and said he would pick Kitson ahead of Doyle. Both players seem to be bang on form so if we can pick them both in the squad it will only make us better.

dcarroll

But give me a Kitson, Nolan or Trundle to bring on rather than Gary Doherty while we are on the verge not qualifying for the WC, thats my point and I would put Doyle in front of these

kensutz

Doherty is a DEFENDER!!!

dcarroll

Tell that to the ireland manager (and while you are talking to him ask him is he a better defender than Paul McShane)

whiskeyman

Apparently Dave Kitson have said today that he's flattered to be approached and seen in high regard from Stan, but he doesnt agree with the Granny Rule and wont be pursuing playing for the international squad.
Heard this on Newstalk this evening.
Looks like he must have his mind set on England so.

MrJoeSoap

Fair play to Kitson, would have been easy to try his luck with us.

*cough* Zat Knight *cough*

KdjaCL

Aw crap really wanted him to play for us, who is next on the paddy hit list?

Ohhhh i hope its someone from an even lower division whos really good but just misunderstood as crap!!!!

kdjac

eirebhoy

whiskeyman wrote:

Looks like he must have his mind set on England so.

I think he just doesn't want to play international football for the sake of it. He seems to have his head screwed on and knows he has little chance of making the England team with the likes of Owen and Rooney around.

"It is obviously flattering, to use an old cliche to be linked with Ireland and it is nice to be thought of so highly by somebody that I respect within the game.

"But I wouldn't do it. It's got nothing to do with Ireland or the Irish people and I am certainly not naive enough to think that I am good enough.

"It's just that I don't believe in the grandparent rule and it's something I don't like about international football.

"This is my own little stand and that's just it. I think you should play for the country you were born in.

"We have got a terrific young talent here at Reading called Shane Long, who has just played in two FA Cup ties against West Brom. I don't want to be the player standing in the way of him or Kevin Doyle playing for their country.

"Ireland has their own 100 per cent Irish talent and if people don't agree with me then that's fine because I am not out to win platitudes.

"Ireland have got Kevin Doyle who is doing very well and is very capable of playing international football and in Robbie Keane and Damien Duff they have got some of the best players in the world.

"I think the situation here in England is farcical where you have clubs bringing in a foreign player for the same amount of money that it would cost to nurture three home grown players. That's why FIFA and UEFA are introducing rules about home grown talent.

"My grandfather, who had emigrated from Ireland, died when my father was quite young so I never knew him. Growing up in Tottenham I wasn't really aware of my Irish roots. Our upbringing was quite English.

"Everybody was waiting for the big transfer signing during the close season but the manager only brought in Kevin, Shane and Hunty.

"But as soon as they got on the training pitch you could see the great potential. We got Kevin for around €70,000 and he is now worth €3million.

"He got called into the Irish squad after about 20 games but you don't become an international player after 20 games.

"You just don't know where the next gem is going to come from.

"He is a fantastic player to play with. He is not afraid to do the work and will run his socks off. While he'd be disappointed not to score as long as the team does well he is happy.

"I sometimes think he is a mirror image of me in terms of playing style. He is a terrific lad."

KdjaCL

eirebhoy wrote:

I think he just doesn't want to play international football for the sake of it. He seems to have his head screwed on and knows he has little chance of making the England team with the likes of Owen and Rooney around.

"It is obviously flattering, to use an old cliche to be linked with Ireland and it is nice to be thought of so highly by somebody that I respect within the game.

"But I wouldn't do it. It's got nothing to do with Ireland or the Irish people and I am certainly not naive enough to think that I am good enough.

"It's just that I don't believe in the grandparent rule and it's something I don't like about international football.

"This is my own little stand and that's just it. I think you should play for the country you were born in.

"We have got a terrific young talent here at Reading called Shane Long, who has just played in two FA Cup ties against West Brom. I don't want to be the player standing in the way of him or Kevin Doyle playing for their country.

"Ireland has their own 100 per cent Irish talent and if people don't agree with me then that's fine because I am not out to win platitudes.

"Ireland have got Kevin Doyle who is doing very well and is very capable of playing international football and in Robbie Keane and Damien Duff they have got some of the best players in the world.

"I think the situation here in England is farcical where you have clubs bringing in a foreign player for the same amount of money that it would cost to nurture three home grown players. That's why FIFA and UEFA are introducing rules about home grown talent.

"My grandfather, who had emigrated from Ireland, died when my father was quite young so I never knew him. Growing up in Tottenham I wasn't really aware of my Irish roots. Our upbringing was quite English.

"Everybody was waiting for the big transfer signing during the close season but the manager only brought in Kevin, Shane and Hunty.

"But as soon as they got on the training pitch you could see the great potential. We got Kevin for around €70,000 and he is now worth €3million.

"He got called into the Irish squad after about 20 games but you don't become an international player after 20 games.

"You just don't know where the next gem is going to come from.

"He is a fantastic player to play with. He is not afraid to do the work and will run his socks off. While he'd be disappointed not to score as long as the team does well he is happy.

"I sometimes think he is a mirror image of me in terms of playing style. He is a terrific lad."

Now thats refreshing to see.

kdjac

cournioni

kensutz wrote:

Doherty is a DEFENDER!!!

Is he? It's hard to tell what the hell that man is...

kensutz

Yes he is, he's played all the games for us as defender and I see him week in week out and he's excellent this season winning player of the month on a few occasions.

cournioni

kensutz wrote:

Yes he is, he's played all the games for us as defender and I see him week in week out and he's excellent this season winning player of the month on a few occasions.

Is this the same Gary Doherty that I am thinking of? You know, the one that has ginger hair and the control, pace and turn of a ship?

kensutz

Thats him