Primary schools to abondon Eircom

eircomtribunal

The Irish Primary Principles Network (IPPN) recommends to its members to switch their schools' telephony to Cable and Wireless (carrier preselect), which will enable them to save ca 30% on the schools telephony costs.
From ENN

Cable & Wireless has teamed up with the Irish Primary Principals Network (IPPN) to offer a low-cost telecoms service to Irish primary schools.

The service, dubbed ScoilTel, claims to offer up to 30 percent call savings to primary schools, offering what it says are "significant" savings on landline bills to more than 3,000 schools. The news will come as welcome relief to Irish primary schools, who claim their budgets are under pressure.

Sean Cottrell, director of the IPPN, said the organisation was conscious of the challenges school principals when it came to running a school, and staying within budget. "It provides an opportunity for schools to increase their disposable budgets by cutting back in an area where the opportunity arose," Cottrell explained to ElectricNews.Net.

There is no obligation for the schools to sign up to the new services; however, Cable & Wireless has been flagged by the organisation as the preferred supplier.

The services were tested over a six-month period with 10 schools taking part. Following the successful test period, the service is now being offered to schools across the country...

This is the kind of action we'll have to see in future much more. I'll wait to see how many schools will stay with the more expensive Eircom, wasting scarce resources.

Potentially the telephony costs of 3000 schools are a considerable sum to be lost by the fat incumbent, even if the line money still goes mostly to eircom.
3000 schools X €50 per month (?) each X 12 month = € 1.8 million per year

When all schools have proper broadband connectivity the next logical step would be to go for VOIP.

P.

netwhizkid

Yeah that would be a nice way to repay Telecom Eireann/Eircom who installed a Gateway 2000 (Fantastic computer for its time) into every school in the country regardless if it had one or one thousand pupils. It was the first computer i ever sat at and this gesture by them has created thousands of IT intelligent teenagers today. Eircom are not the problem it is Mary Harney and her privatisation agenda.

paulm17781

netwhizkid wrote:

Yeah that would be a nice way to repay Telecom Eireann/Eircom who installed a Gateway 2000 (Fantastic computer for its time) into every school in the country regardless if it had one or one thousand pupils. It was the first computer i ever sat at and this gesture by them has created thousands of IT intelligent teenagers today. Eircom are not the problem it is Mary Harney and her privatisation agenda.

That's not the same Eircon we have today. They have since been taken private and are owed nothing by society.

JohnC.

Not to mention that they have surely more than made back the cost of a computer from each school over the years.

Good.

I don't like eircom, they kept charging us for calls we couldn't possibly have made, and refused to discuss it.

jwt

Wonder why the dept. of education can't negotiate a bulk discount deal or somesuch with eircom on behalf of the schools?

John

cgarvey

Because they don't control the school budgets.. the IPPN should have (if they didn't already) negotiated a discount with C&W alright.

damien

This isn't a blow to eircom, this is an alternative telco getting a clue. There was nothing stopping them doing this all along. It should be simple enough to move people over to a new telco and get them better prices if the telco knows what they're doing. That these groups have not been approached before says something about the salesforce of the OLOs more than someone giving the two fingers to eircom.

But just to be clear. This is NOT 4000 schools moving away from eircom, this is an organisation representing primary school principals who will get the school they work in a better deal. The school boards for each school would still have to approve this I should think. One would have thought that schools would have been shopping around for the best deals on everything they pay out money for.

MrShadow

One would have thought that schools would have been shopping around for the best deals on everything they pay out money for.

And when would they get the time to do this? cut back on the teaching to make sure that every bean is used to its maximum? They are in the job of educating not econmics. Principals are flat out running and/or teaching in the schools.

The deptmartment of education is where the research into how to keep the major utility bills that are common to all schools schould be done. Otherwise you have the reinvention of the wheel for each school.

LFCFan

FFS. It doesn't take a genius or months of your time to figure out that moving your phone calls from €ircon will save you money. Once you've made the choice of which carrier it's only a matter of filling out a form. There is no excuse for these schools not to do it. All it will do is save them money.

LFCFan

netwhizkid wrote:

Yeah that would be a nice way to repay Telecom Eireann/Eircom who installed a Gateway 2000 (Fantastic computer for its time) into every school in the country regardless if it had one or one thousand pupils. It was the first computer i ever sat at and this gesture by them has created thousands of IT intelligent teenagers today. Eircom are not the problem it is Mary Harney and her privatisation agenda.

another example of how people still think €ircon are our national telco and that we somehow owe them something. It's no wonder so many people stick with them.

netwhizkid

LFCFan wrote:

FFS. It doesn't take a genius or months of your time to figure out that moving your phone calls from €ircon will save you money. Once you've made the choice of which carrier it's only a matter of filling out a form. There is no excuse for these schools not to do it. All it will do is save them money.

I agree with you on this, Eircom are expensive and the reason they are is not sheer greed but the fact that they are not allowed by the Regulator Comreg to undercut their competitors prices. It would be like for example like a company owning the Railway - tracks & network, paying all the staff etc. Imagine that company isn't allowed to run trains! Only receive sheer pittance from the Train companies. This scenario ladies and gentlemen is what is happening to Eircom and that is why You or me can't have broadband or a decent telephone service, that is what is happening! that is Ireland in 2006. All thanks to the Neo-Liberal Thatcherite EU Agenda, This was forced down our throats by Mary O'Rourke and is trying to be forced down everyones throats by Mary Harney and her "Private Enterprise will prevail" motto. Our Good EU Commissioner Charlie Mccreevy is trying to force it down the throats of the entire continent of Europe with the Bolkenstein Directive. I say that is one pill I won't swallow or neither should every man, woman or child on this island. This government are welcome to get constipated on it, but by hell they will be on the toilet bowl come election time.

Eircom should be Nationalised and fair competition allowed, The money Eircom is making could then be all ploughed back into the Network giving everyone a fair service. When this would be Achieved the profits could be used to fund Research and Development and help reduce all our burdens by cutting tax. Ireland now is the 2nd most Unequal society in the World behind the U.S.A take a look at my signature to see who's responsible.

oscarBravo

netwhizkid wrote:

Eircom should be Nationalised and fair competition allowed...

'nuff said, tbh.




Can I post that now, cg? can I? huh? please? huh?

clearz

netwhizkid wrote:

Eircom should be Nationalised and fair competition allowed, The money Eircom is making could then be all ploughed back into the Network giving everyone a fair service. When this would be Achieved the profits could be used to fund Research and Development and help reduce all our burdens by cutting tax. Ireland now is the 2nd most Unequal society in the World behind the U.S.A take a look at my signature to see who's responsible.

This sounds like a load of socialist crap to me. I bet you vote for Sinn Fein. I would rather live in a country with a monopoly any day than live in a country where the government can confiscate a private enterprise. Im glad we're the 2nd most Unequal society. It proves that if people are willing to work hard they can make it big and to the people who sit round on the dole[1] and/or blow all their money in the pub at the weekend should stay at the bottom.

[1] Excluding people who genuinally cant work

cgarvey

netwhizkid wrote:

Eircom are expensive and the reason they are is not sheer greed but the fact that they are not allowed by the Regulator Comreg

Errrm, what?

Are you referring to the restrictions in place to keep eircom from upping the wholesale price to subsidise their retail price?

If so, you're negating your entire post about competition, and dreadfully wrong. If not, I don't get what you mean, would you care to expand?

.cg

kaizersoze

netwhizkid wrote:

Neo-Liberal Thatcherite

I used to have one of those but the dog ate it.

netwhizkid wrote:

take a look at my signature to see who's responsible.

"Firefox"?

netwhizkid

What I am saying is there should be a level Playing field, If a competitor to Eircom can offer you say a package where you pay for instance €50 a month then Eircom should be allowed to match it or undercut it. They are not allowed to do this by Comreg. Eircom should be Nationalised and use Tax payers money to deliver a first world network instead of the scenario now where Algeria will have a better Broadband Situation than us. Fair duos to the Algerians for achieving this. Like if you are in business you are not going to invest in something where you will get minimal to no return. This is why Eircom as a private company are refusing to roll out broadband, like why should they the minute they enable an exchange most of the broadband custom will go to other operators who undercut eircom as they will have no Network to maintain and minimal staff to pay. Eircom are then not allowed to match their prices or service by stringent regulation imposed by comreg. Like competition can only work where there is a level playing field, The fact that eircom are not allowed to undercut their competition is completely biased against them and thus to the common detriment. Like I would consider myself a Socialist and I do not vote for Sinn Fein but a mix of Socialism and Capitalism can work too as much as i hate to say it. There are certain key Industries that should be under state control and run by the state. Telecommunications are one of these, Private Industry are hard working and good achievers but they do it driven by greed, they don't care if Joe Bloggs in Northern arse end of nowhere can get the product. This is where state intervention comes in. Like IMO it is a thundering disgrace to see BT & Smart investing millions in rolling out their broadband where Eircom Broadband is already available :mad: Why the hell don't they upgrade the exchanges that are not done and let Eircom Rent their equipment to offer Eircom Broadband and they do the same with eircom. The thing is a total cock up and it is being Kept that way while Mary Harney is in Government. I smell brown envelopes, umm its Manila. I blame the Current government and not firefox as one guy pointed out.

oscarBravo

Dude. Seriously. Go read up on how "competition" works anywhere Eircom are involved, and come back to us. You're just embarassing yourself with this boring vendetta against Mary Harney.

paulm17781

I didn't have enough change for the bus this morning and had to over spend. If it wasn't for Mary Harney something would have been cheaper and then it would have been ok.

As someone tried to point out to you: Eircon's price restrictions are based on their wholesale operations. Eircon wholesale can not 'sell' something to Eircon retail for cheaper than Eircon wholesale sell it to and Eircon competitor. Eircon retail are free to undercut their competitors, they just don't because they don't have to. I can see how you deduced it is all Mary Harney's fault... :rolleyes:

netwhizkid

oscarBravo wrote:

Dude. Seriously. Go read up on how "competition" works anywhere Eircom are involved, and come back to us. You're just embarassing yourself with this boring vendetta against Mary Harney.

I know how competition works and I know that competing companies quickly put their profits before consumers.

I detest your signature too btw, see here

cgarvey

netwhizkid wrote:

Eircom are then not allowed to match their prices or service by stringent regulation imposed by comreg

That is completely untrue, as has been explained to you already.

eircomtribunal

cgarvey wrote:

That is completely untrue, as has been explained to you already.

It's enlightening to see how successfully the Eircom owners and the CWU "managed" employees (as the other fat profiteers of that company's detrimental business strategy) put forward the twisted argument of the "bad" regulator making it impossible for good Eircom to do good for society – when quite obviously Eircom is able to avoid any impact a limp Comreg puts forward.

The CWU even went so far to try to locally impact on Dermot Ahern's TD re-election campaign with this lie on leaflets etc. But Ahern stood his corner, publicly and robustly denounced the Eircom-CWU stance – and even sent our eircomtribunal postcard to Philip Nolan:


P.

jwt

netwhizkid wrote:

What I am saying is there should be a level Playing field,

Agreed, but atm there isn't eircom own over 90% of the copper infrastructure so they get to dictate how and when it'll be used.

netwhizkid wrote:

If a competitor to Eircom can offer you say a package where you pay for instance €50 a month then Eircom should be allowed to match it or undercut it. They are not allowed to do this by Comreg.

Absolutely nothing stopping eircom retail from doing that; however eircom wholesale HAVE to make whatever price they sell to eircom retail available to every other Telco (ignoring the price minus stuff for the moment)

netwhizkid wrote:

Eircom should be Nationalised and use Tax payers money to deliver a first world network instead of the scenario now where Algeria will have a better Broadband Situation than us.

There are very few instances in recorded history where a state or semi state body has produced better cheaper more efficient results than the private sector. Look back to Telecom Eireann days and before that P&T.

However there is a good argument that the core network should have been kept in state hands and its management either outsourced by tender or collectively managed.

netwhizkid wrote:

Fair duos to the Algerians for achieving this. Like if you are in business you are not going to invest in something where you will get minimal to no return. This is why Eircom as a private company are refusing to roll out broadband, like why should they the minute they enable an exchange most of the broadband custom will go to other operators who undercut eircom as they will have no Network to maintain and minimal staff to pay.

eircom make fantastic operating profits on dial up and pay by the minute. Broadband cuts into that profit significantly, costs money to implement and your forgetting that most of these other operators are reselling eircoms wholesale bitstream product so the majority of the profit to be made from broadband is going to eircom anyway.

netwhizkid wrote:

Eircom are then not allowed to match their prices or service by stringent regulation imposed by comreg. Like competition can only work where there is a level playing field, The fact that eircom are not allowed to undercut their competition is completely biased against them and thus to the common detriment.

Please point us to the relevant statutory regs that forbid eircom retail to undercut their competition. eircom wholesale are not allowed to sell to eircom retail cheaper (this is to stop eircom wholesale offering a 100% discount to eircom retail for say 2 years until all competing telcos have left the market or gone bust trying to match eircom retail prices. At that point eircom retail could whack their prices up again)

netwhizkid wrote:

Like I would consider myself a Socialist and I do not vote for Sinn Fein but a mix of Socialism and Capitalism can work too as much as i hate to say it. There are certain key Industries that should be under state control and run by the state. Telecommunications are one of these, Private Industry are hard working and good achievers but they do it driven by greed, they don't care if Joe Bloggs in Northern arse end of nowhere can get the product. This is where state intervention comes in.

Private industry is motivated by greed, but in a competitive market each operator is trying to gain a larger market share from the other thus driving prices down. Where private industry gets together to frustrate competition by agreeing preset prices is illegal. A monopoly using its monopoly to aggressively price competitors out of the market is illegal.

netwhizkid wrote:

Like IMO it is a thundering disgrace to see BT & Smart investing millions in rolling out their broadband where Eircom Broadband is already available :mad: Why the hell don't they upgrade the exchanges that are not done and let Eircom Rent their equipment to offer Eircom Broadband and they do the same with eircom.

Problem with that idea is that eircom have already enabled the most profitable exchanges so you would have to get BT etc to spend money enabling unprofitable exchanges. Add into that that eircom set some staggering prices for telcos to place equipment into their exchanges and the idea becomes economically impracticable.

netwhizkid wrote:

The thing is a total cock up and it is being Kept that way while Mary Harney is in Government. I smell brown envelopes, umm its Manila. I blame the Current government and not firefox as one guy pointed out.

Where Mary Harney comes into this I'm not sure, but currently the mess involves DCMNR, ComReg, eircom, BT and other telcos (I include BT et al because they really should get off their backside more often)


John