US: 2X11 - "The Hunting Party" [**SPOILERS WITHIN**]

Basq

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "THE HUNTING PARTY" -

Episode Title: "The Hunting Party"
Airdate: January 18th 2006

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

Jack, Locke and Sawyer follow after a determined Michael after he heads into the jungle toward the dreaded "Others" in search of Walt. Meanwhile, Sun has a surprising reaction to Jin's desire to join the search party, and Hurley and Charlie commiserate over the age-old conundrum of "what women want."

Next New Episode: 2X12 - "Fire + Water" - January 25th 2006

steveland?

8

I'll re-open this thread tomorrow morning when the episode has been aired

Washout

7

Gave it an 8....a good solid episide ..but loses 2 points for jacks backstory.
The meeting with the others was fascinating viewing.
And the ending quote had me thinking "let the war begin"
I think we are in for some season fillers for the next couple of weeks

Basq

8

Man oh man.... did i enjoy this episode!!

Excellent stuff - felt like first series Lost again. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with series 2 but feels very different in contrast with regards to progress.

Anyways, some absolutely fantastic stuff in this episode!

The confrontation with the Captain (or Mr. Beardy as i think he's been credited as) was quite tense. Many conflicts / relationships / tidbits about the castaway's now finally boiling up to public knowledge:

- Locke confronting Sawyer about his real name and calling him James.
- Jack's brief revelation to Sawyer about his little disclosure regarding Kate which unconscious.

Many more along with it.. they're all of the top of my head!

Good to see Sayid again - seems like we've been seeing less and less of him recently.

Jack's flashback was actually quite decent.. i knew he'd end up kissing Gabriella but enjoyed the journey getting there.

Probably no need for the Sun and Jin moments - just felt like un-necessary dialogue.

Anyways.. excellent episode. Up there with my favourites of the season - definantly Top 3 anyways.

Roll on episode 12.

jonnybadd

Good Episode, througholy enjoyed most of it, but didn't enjoy the backstory too much. Nice to see Sayid and Hurley again. An eight in my book

Also Mr. Beardy had what looked like a Mauser pistol, now I'm no weapons expert but I know they were used during WW2, so could the others date back that far? Or was the pistol production continued after the War?

Vorsprung

Also Mr. Beardy had what looked like a Mauser pistol, now I'm no weapons expert but I know they were used during WW2, so could the others date back that far? Or was the pistol production continued after the War?

I was thinking it was a Luger meself

Sherifu

bigjimthefirst wrote:

I was thinking it was a Luger meself

This is what i thought also.

Good episode, hope it doesnt take too long for the war to start.
The losties seem to have the numbers but the beardy gang will know the island inside out. Let the fun begin!

herobear

this is becoming more & more like planet of the apes, every episode

it was ok, flashback sucked but at least it had something to do with the current events on the island(once you cross the line, there's no going back)
and at least there wont be any more jack flashbacks for awhile(here's hoping!)

sayid looks really depressed and mopey.

anybody notice Mr. Friendly calling for Alex to bring kate ?
and yes, kate is a 'tard!

i wanna know where mike is

Vorsprung

herobear wrote:

anybody notice Mr. Friendly calling for Alex to bring kate ?

If that isn't kate's daughter I'll eat my hat. Good enough episode, not the best this season though.

I think it's getting a bit annoying. Beardo was asking them loads of questions, and not one question from the Losties to the others, wtf?! And Beardo also telling them to go home, but *they did*, and he set the raft on fire. That was a poor scene I reckon.

Chong

8

Alex is rousseau's kid.

Sauron

8

Great episode, really enjoyed it.

Sawyer calling Locke Mr. Clean was excellent

I liked the others scene, very cool when all the torches lit up

backstory wasn't too bad imo, but lost the episode a point for me.

I was thinking the pistol was a luger as well.. interesting.

the jack-Kate tension should provide some good viewing.

Loved Hurley and Charlie talking in the hatch... they were like two teenage kids.. "dude, you think I have a chance with her?"

Sleepy

6

Again, I've a few niggles and a few theories...

Why ask a cop about training an army when you've a former special forces soldier and a military nut with you?

Jack's back-story couldn't have been more obvious.

Reckon the torch show was a bluff, there may have been more 'others' but my guess is that beardy was the only one armed...

Was good to see more of an 'ensemble' show for a change, recent episodes have been far too focused on small groups of characters.

Chevano Riley

4

hmmm.

was unimpressed. nothing whatsoever happened in the first half hour. just jack, sawyer and locke walking and being macho.

flashback = poor. very slow and i saw the ending coming a mile off. the convo with the beardo had no substance.

ugh. i dunno - maybe im just in a bad mood today.

p.s. anyone think suns accent (speaking english) has changed. she use to sound very american (as an american actress) by its sounds less fluent now. shes out of practice since the start of season 2.

Vorsprung

Willem D wrote:

Alex is rousseau's kid.

Yea sorry thats what I meant

cregser

7

I've nothing to add really... I agree that this episode felt like season1 (which is good) and that Jack's story was predictable (except his wife cheating on him).

I enjoyed the episode, but the encounter with the others was way too brief. And the more you think back about it the more annoying it is (like asking a cop to train an army as someone said). The Sun and Jin business suggests they're running short on material.

Anima

7

I thought the Others scene would reveal a lot more. I guess it did in subtle ways like Beardy saying they shouldn't open doors in their house bla bla.

Still could of done with a bit more, "YES WE'RE THE OTHERS, WERE DOING A,B,C BECAUSE OF X,Y,Z" but I guess thats not Lost's style. :v:

The Free Man

7

i enjoyed it, but thought there should've been more to the others part, i really want to know why the others are so 'aggressive'

anotherlostie

7

Another good episode, imho. Didn't particularly like the backstory tils its conclusions, with the comment to Jack about always needing to have something to fix. And the new found annoyance with Kate could be interesting.

But the confrontation with the Bearded Man has to be the high point of the episode. Will we see Rousseau again soon? How many of the Others are there, and are they actually the Others, or another disparate group on the island (such as the original scientists)? I didn't get what happened when Sawyer fired the pistol, so not sure if that was suggesting supernatural powers, which would confirm in my mind that Beardy is an Other.

The Sun and Jin piece was interesting for the fact that once again "don't tell me what I can and can't do" was a theme, like it was for Locke with Jack.

Lots happening, and sets it up nicely for the second half of the season.

Rollo Tamasi

6

Did anyone notice Sawyer calling Beardo "Zeek" butthat "Zeek" never called Sawyer by his name yet he called Locke and Jack by their name at every chance he had, nearly over doing it! And also that we found out that Sawyers real name is James Ford. I wonder if that is significant or not! The whole torches thing going up reminded me of survivor or something, i tought they were going to vote off Kate!

Its obvious that they have Mike now anyway since they said he is in a safe place.

Jacks back story was crap and pointless, i don't know why they bother. The only thing i could guess from it is that she is having the affair with someone who is on the island at the moment!

I thought we would get more answers from the others as well in this episode.

herobear

rewatching it, it seems fairly obvious that ethan is not one of the others(at least that group of 'others' unless he went awol or something)

and grrr! at the subtext with

kate/sawyer

yes its obvious, but you'se dont need to spell it out so directly, subtlety is a dying art in this show.

in regards to the whole 'building an army' idea
Sayid is
1. really mopey and depressed right now(hence useless as a character)
and
2. he's a bloody pacifist.

Ana-Lucia has had loads of experience with the others, and has even killed one of them, im presuming she wont be as trigger happy after killing shannon as well, but at least she's capable and willing using a gun....

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

Sawyers real name is James Ford.

we found that out last season, which brings me to another rant.
Locke knows his real name ?? ehh wtf.....
i realise Sawyer and him dont talk much, as they're such different people.
but what was the point of that conversation ? felt really forced and unrealistic

mewso

6

Yes indeed. While I thought it was an ok episode I'm concerned Lost is losing it's unpredictability and as said above it's subtlety.

Jack's back story - given the pretext any of us could have written it.
The Others - ooh I wonder what Jack is going to do while Zeek counts to 3. Hmmm let me think. Well whataya know he gave in and Kate didn't get shot. This scene in around the camp fire. How about just as he gets to 3 Sawyer shoots him the head, everyone freezes for a second then all hell breaks loose and they manage to get out of there in a hurry. Now that would be classy.

Rollo Tamasi

6

musician wrote:

Yes indeed. While I thought it was an ok episode I'm concerned Lost is losing it's unpredictability and as said above it's subtlety.

Jack's back story - given the pretext any of us could have written it.
The Others - ooh I wonder what Jack is going to do while Zeek counts to 3. Hmmm let me think. Well whataya know he gave in and Kate didn't get shot. This scene in around the camp fire. How about just as he gets to 3 Sawyer shoots him the head, everyone freezes for a second then all hell breaks loose and they manage to get out of there in a hurry. Now that would be classy.

spot on spot on! It's like the losties don't argue enough or try hard enough to fight whats happening. If i was Sawyer i would have blown Zeek's brains out!

Shanegggg

3

I gave this episode 4. Despite the fact that i thought it was a good episode i'm getting really annoyed with it. Are the writers ever going to reveal nething anymore?

Like in this episode they FINALLY meet the people that took walt and they ask no questions, just drop there guns and leave!! R they idiots r is it just the writers trying to drag out the story for say a good 10 series!! :mad:

Anyone else feel this way?

mr_angry

7

Sawyer was about to blow Zeke's brains out when someone nearly picked out his jugular with a rifle round. That kind of thing tends to sway your opinion. I think the reason Jack hesitated was because he was just so pìssed off that The Others got the upper hand. He didn't want to admit it. Its not that he was really considering taking the other choice.

Jack's back-story didn't reveal much, but it did emphasise the way that Jack just can't let go of things. Much like Christian Shepherd said to him just before his wedding... "Commitment is what makes you tick Jack, its just that you can't let go". And sure enough it was borne out in this episode. Another leader might have gone back to camp, admitted that they were at a disadvantage, and talked over events with other characters. Instead, Jack goes back to camp with one intention - to start a war! He can't let go.

There were a couple of other very interesting easter eggs in this episode. Firstly, we have Locke and Sawyer discussing the name "Sawyer". I get the feeling that Locke knows somebody else called Sawyer. His father? Or somebody else?

Secondly, we have the line "Bring her out Alex!" - Danielle's daughter surely? Unfortunately, we only get to see this person's arm. Are the writers saving that particular treat for a later date?

And thirdly, we see Sayid being told that there's a search party out looking for Michael, yet we never see what he does. I suspect he goes out into the jungle after them...

Thoughts?

Silent Assasin

9

Would anyone agree that Zeke and the rest of the others may have lured Micheal away somewhere, When Locke said Micheal was heading north but the Tailies crashed on the east and thats where walt was taken. I think they lured him somewhere with the computer and they have him now.

We know that the others know that the losties are in the Hatch with Zekes speech about opening doors to Locke and we dont know exactly what "Walt" told Micheal with the computer.

Great Episode Though, Jacks line at the end totally unexpected.

steveland?

8

Good episode, one of my favourites this season...

Few interesting little things revealed such as:
Calling "Bring 'er out Alex" - Can't not be Rosseaue's daughter... it'd just be stupid if it wasn't
Zeke was great as the Others representative... his reaction to the Ethan comment was interesting... perhaps I'll have to give in that he might not have been one of the Others...
Last line really made the episode for me...

This little Island Civil War had better start soon... I'm not gonna be a happy bunny if next week there's no mention of the last line or anything that happened this week...

Why the hell didn't Jack ask "so who are you people..."

I don't get how the writers think they can pose so many questions and not have any explanation... Also are we supposed to believe that given an opportunity like that Jack, Sawyer and Locke didn't want to find anything out about the island and about the Others?

By the way anyone notice that Jack didn't have any tattoos when he got into bed with Sarah?

Wonder if this is significant...

mewso

6

mr_angry wrote:

Sawyer was about to blow Zeke's brains out when someone nearly picked out his jugular with a rifle round. That kind of thing tends to sway your opinion.

Indeed it does. I'm talking about writing the scene in a different way not asking why he didn't do something different in the context of the existing scene.

mr_angry wrote:

Jack's back-story didn't reveal much, but it did emphasise the way that Jack just can't let go of things. Much like Christian Shepherd said to him just before his wedding... "Commitment is what makes you tick Jack, its just that you can't let go". And sure enough it was borne out in this episode. Another leader might have gone back to camp, admitted that they were at a disadvantage, and talked over events with other characters. Instead, Jack goes back to camp with one intention - to start a war! He can't let go.

But it's getting a bit repetitive. I think we have established this part of Jack's character. Telling us over and over that he likes to fix problems on his own doesn't make it more interesting.

mr_angry wrote:

Secondly, we have the line "Bring her out Alex!" - Danielle's daughter surely? Unfortunately, we only get to see this person's arm. Are the writers saving that particular treat for a later date?

Eh personally I'm getting tired of Alex. I thought we knew about her for a good while now. What makes another menton of her more interesting.

Kur4mA

9

I thought this was a great episode apart from one little thing.

So... they finally bump into "The Others" and know that they have Walt and more than likely have Mike now too. "The Others" get the drop on them, and they have to get their asses back to camp. BUT. When they arrive back at camp, instead of telling everyone WTF is going on and that "The Others" have Walt AND Mike now too they all just go about their business?!?

Kate and Sawyer as calm as anything just go on their way. "Ah don't mind him Kate, I'd have done the same thing BLARRRG!" Whatever, you muppet. Locke starts playing with the wee baby?!? Jack waffling to Annoying Lucia about training an army! I mean COME ON, two of your people are being held captive and they don't even bother to let people know about it and that maybe they need to keep an eye out for other dodgy goings on etc. You'd swear half of them were just on ****ing holiday. It's just starting to get a bit silly imo. Actually, thinking about it, it's not such a little thing but a rather big and ****ing annoying thing. :mad:

Anima

7

Well isn't there supposed to be 50 people on the beach/caves? I mean is there any real point in causing a panic? Fair enough they could look more concerned but running through the beach yelling, "OMFG OTHERS!!!", isn't going to solve much is it?

robinph

6

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

Jacks back story was crap and pointless, i don't know why they bother. The only thing i could guess from it is that she is having the affair with someone who is on the island at the moment!

Please let that be Sawyer, then Jack might just go and throw himself off a cliff or something.

stevejazzx

8

ok contains many spoilers(possibbly)

some thoughts

jack s back story wasn't the boring little romp most of you thought i suspect,
its seems that the memory or flashback were planted by dharma as they seem to be controlling falshbacks, maybe creating the entire back stories - this i will expand on later..

anyone else hear the mention from sawyer or mr. ford of Mt. vesuvius, the volcano reference is another throwback to the polar reversal theory, methinks....

the others(probably not the 'real' others incidentally) are most possibly protecting the jack and locke etc from a part of the island that is too dangerous! think people...

because michael went in different direction is evidence of his communication with walt or b) the island is rotating(the lava) or c) he's a stoog/ a plant by the scientists

the army training that will begin will not be used against beardy and his mates i'd say but against the real others

finally interestinly zeeks asks jack how long have you been on this island

Kur4mA

9

Anima wrote:

Well isn't there supposed to be 50 people on the beach/caves? I mean is there any real point in causing a panic? Fair enough they could look more concerned but running through the beach yelling, "OMFG OTHERS!!!", isn't going to solve much is it?

That's not what I said. And eh... cause a panic? They're stuck on an island and it doesn't look like a rescue party is coming any time soon so they probably should be in a bit of a panic but nobody seems to give a **** anymore, heh.

All I'm saying is Jack could have even just gathered everyone up and had a little meeting just to say "Hey guys, I know some of you may have been wondering where Walt and Mike are since I know rumours may be spreading. They were taken captive by The Others and we've been told they are in no danger, but for now I'm going to ask everyone not to wander off into the jungle anymore or venture too far up the beach and to stay in groups until we can figure out if they are friend or foe."

Something along the lines of that just to make it SEEM like they cared about Mike/Walt and all of the other Losties coz it seems to me like once they get back to camp, suddenly nobody give a crap.

LoLth

stevejazzx wrote:

finally interestinly zeeks asks jack how long have you been on this island

You've been reading that electromagnetic theory.....

how long have you been following lost?

that could be taken two ways. either I am asking you how long you have been following lost because I am interested and I dont know or I am asking the question so that you will think about the answer.

Zeke asking Jack "how long have you been on the island" is a way to get him to think that he is a newcomer to the island and to put across the point that the beardie-others have been there a lot longer. He goes on to talk about the first time you "visit a mans house" and how you behave. What happens if you dont behave in someone's house? you're asked to leave. so he's saying "we were here first, we own this island, you are a blow in. Behave yourself or we'll boot you out"... considering the raft got intercepted it wouldnt be impossible to take "boot out" as another term for "shoot you".

They attacked the raft to get Walt. they didnt care about the raft itself, they were'nt even that bothered about survivors. (ok, they firebombed the raft but that could have been to stop pursuit as easily as it was to stop anyone leaving).

About sawyer getting hit with a rifle (someone said it earlier). I didnt hear a gunshot. I would have thought it was a slingshot or a blowgun or something. Or, if you agree with the electromagnetic-psychic theory, a metal ball bearing propelled by telekinesis.

Jack's backstory: ok, boring but at least now we know. And it does open up the question of , if there are so many links between characters in the series, was there a link here also? Didnt notice the lack of tattoos....

can anyone think of the significance of michaels 7 shots and there only being 4 casings? They really made an effort to point that out to us and I think "someone else shot as well" would be too easy an explaination... surely locke would be able to tell the difference in gunshots (unless the others have the same rifle and are shooting from the same place and also fired in time with michael so the shots all sounded like "fire, reload, fire, reload, fire etc"

duridian

8

Gave it a 9.
8 points for the encounter with "Zeke" and his buddies, and 1 point for Jack's backstory cos Gabriella was hot.

Now I have been reading on other places that what Beardy was quoting about curiosity, from the dawn of time.. etc. comes from a supposed speech made by Alvar Hanso(the sponsor of the Dharma Initiative). Some now suspect that Zeke may in fact be the scientist mentioned in relation to Dharma (see Orientation video), namely Gerald de Groot.
I took a look over the Orientation video again and there is some footage of both Gerald and Karen de Groot, and in the video Gerald deGroot has a beard and there is a similarity there alright. It may be just coincidence, but in Lost are there really any coincidences?

stevejazzx

8

LoLth wrote:

You've been reading that electromagnetic theory.....

how long have you been following lost?

that could be taken two ways. either I am asking you how long you have been following lost because I am interested and I dont know or I am asking the question so that you will think about the answer.
"

Yes, well some freinds and I had establshed the polar reversal theory but it was a guy called 'andrew smith'(ultimate theory) who brilliantly deduced that the name alvar hanso is actually a mix of the two real life scientists who founded and dveloped elctromagnetic teoryJack s back stroy - guys the octagon of dharma pervades the back stories therfore dharma has created or manipilated them, i think its a clear clue from the writers..

oh and hw long have i been following lost? since the begining, almost, watched the begining on c4 and shortly afterwards got on the net an ordered season 1 from the states, btw this board is way behind in its thinking, people are msing a awful lot!

stevejazzx

8

musician wrote:

Yes indeed. While I thought it was an ok episode I'm concerned Lost is losing it's unpredictability and as said above it's subtlety.

I have studied the plot quite extensively recently and believe me its not in the least predictable, in any way.
Furthermore judging by what you have written in this thread you are not nearly up to speed with developments thus far and I honestly only say this to reassure you that the show is excellent and beyond expectation.

SandyVN

7

I have to agree, alot of ppl have said "that was pointless" in this thread...

How do you know??? have you seen the rest of the episodes?

Did'nt you think the pictures in the backround of clairs apartment was pointless......yet 6 episodes later we see them on the island. Hurley drinking milk was that pointless... em,,, NO.

Unless you all know what happens in the end "pointless" is not a word you can use about this show.

SandyVN

7

Just to add in, I got alot of answers and more clues out of this episode.
So for me anyway i thought it was the perfect episode for half way tghrough S2.
The only thing is il probably have to waut til S3 for more...

mewso

6

stevejazzx wrote:

I have studied the plot quite extensively recently and believe me its not in the least predictable, in any way.
Furthermore judging by what you have written in this thread you are not nearly up to speed with developments thus far and I honestly only say this to reassure you that the show is excellent and beyond expectation.

I've seen every episode. I'm possibly enjoying Lost for different reasons than you. I'm not someone who spends hours trying to decipher what is going on and I'm not overly fascinated by the websites with cryptic clues etc. I'll happily speculate from time to time but I'm more interested in the fresh approach that this show and BSG for example are MODEDIT: Battlestar Galactica Spoilers

taking towards what in the past would have been dealt with in a very traditional way. Take the episode towards the end of season 1 when the dynamite suddenly explodes in that guys hand or the revelation that Locke couldn't walk etc. This to me is great television, the "holy ****" factor (Adama getting shot at the end of BSG Season 1 is another). The plot does intrigue me but I'm not going to get religious about it or have discussions about who is the more studied on it.

I think Lost is great tv (second only to BSG imo) but is in danger of getting deeper and deeper into a quagmire of obscure storyline. I am relying on the fact that the writers know exactly where they are going with this but I think it's approaching a point where some threads need to come together soon or it'll start to be a turnoff. I would agree that I may not be aware of all the subtle nods to this and that in each episode but they have to realise that not every viewer is scouring the web to find out clues and answers that raise more questions.

stevejazzx

8

musician wrote:

I've seen every episode. I'm possibly enjoying Lost for different reasons than you. I'm not someone who spends hours trying to decipher what is going on and I'm not overly fascinated by the websites with cryptic clues etc. I'll happily speculate from time to time but I'm more interested in the fresh approach that this show and BSG for example are MODEDIT: Battlestar Galactica Spoilers

taking towards what in the past would have been dealt with in a very traditional way. Take the episode towards the end of season 1 when the dynamite suddenly explodes in that guys hand or the revelation that Locke couldn't walk etc. This to me is great television, the "holy ****" factor (Adama getting shot at the end of BSG Season 1 is another). The plot does intrigue me but I'm not going to get religious about it or have discussions about who is the more studied on it.

I think Lost is great tv (second only to BSG imo) but is in danger of getting deeper and deeper into a quagmire of obscure storyline. I am relying on the fact that the writers know exactly where they are going with this but I think it's approaching a point where some threads need to come together soon or it'll start to be a turnoff. I would agree that I may not be aware of all the subtle nods to this and that in each episode but they have to realise that not every viewer is scouring the web to find out clues and answers that raise more questions.

cool,
but it's silly to say that it's unpredictable when(judging by input so far) you haven't predicted the basics yet, i will posting a summary to date tonight which you can look at if you wish although i realise you might not want to and prefer to go by each episode which is cool by me but possibly don't say stuff like 'anyone could of written jacks back story' when you are not in posession of all the information as of yet.
As far developing the theory of the idea of lost goes its been months in the doing, myself and the wife have been ironing out stuff since october using a lot of our own ideas(there wasn't much on the web at that time) we were luckly to have stumbled upon one of biggest ideas quite early so have been evolving that since, now i read ultimate theory on the web by andrew smith but thats it, there are many areas where i disagree and many other original ideas which i developed with friends etc.
I just find it more interesting when I know whats going on because its easier to hear and see the new clues. Although I love the show, its not religous and I'm not scouring the web for stuff as the worst scenario i can imagine is having the whole thing outlined to me before I see it.

Cheers

steve

steveland?

8

stevejazzx wrote:

I have studied the plot quite extensively recently and believe me its not in the least predictable, in any way.
Furthermore judging by what you have written in this thread you are not nearly up to speed with developments thus far and I honestly only say this to reassure you that the show is excellent and beyond expectation.

Some of us like watching Lost because it's a good TV show, not an "internet mystery" as some of these little websites popping up would like to lead us to believe...

I don't tend to go out looking for theories on the web... I can think of my own theories thank you very much...

Can we try to keep this on topic which is episode 2x11?

stevejazzx

8

steveland? wrote:

Some of us like watching Lost because it's a good TV show, not an "internet mystery" as some of these little websites popping up would like to lead us to believe...

I don't tend to go out looking for theories on the web... I can think of my own theories thank you very much...

Can we try to keep this on topic which is episode 2x11?

My point is not that everyone go find all the answers on the web, everyone can do as they please, i never stated otherwise,
MyPOINT is that people should not make statemets that something is no good or that something is losing it unpredictabilty or that something could have been written by anyone ect unless they are themselves an authority on the subject.
I simply enjoy discussing something at a level where the conversation is more informed as i believe its more exciting.
Now sorry - back to thread

steveland?

8

I'm sorry if we're not "well informed" enough for you...

Most of us watch the episode for entertainment... If it's not "entertaining", ie. some people just getting p*ssed off about the show starting to get incredibly slow and having bugger all exposition...

I know you're probably going to post up something about it not being slow becuase you read x, y, z theories on the internet about where it's going but for MOST of us we just want a TV show that we can sit down and watch for 45 minutes each week...

We have EVERY right to complain if something seems to be going nowhere...

stevejazzx

8

steveland? wrote:

I'm sorry if we're not "well informed" enough for you...

OK perhaps I've come across too strong about the detail, but I'm not of the opinion that anyone is not 'well informed enough for me', i have read some really interesting stuff here, thats why i'm posting.

steveland? wrote:

Most of us watch the episode for entertainment... If it's not "entertaining", ie. some people just getting p*ssed off about the show starting to get incredibly slow and having bugger all exposition...

But it is exposing itself in so many scenes, and getting pissed off at it without working at figuring it out seems to me imo the wrong way to go about things

steveland? wrote:

I know you're probably going to post up something about it not being slow becuase you read x, y, z theories on the internet about where it's going but for MOST of us we just want a TV show that we can sit down and watch for 45 minutes each week...

So do I, and as already stated i don't scour the net for all the answers, most of the stuff is there on the screen, at this stage i don't want all the answers

steveland? wrote:

We have EVERY right to complain if something seems to be going nowhere...

Complain away if you like... in all seriousness and without arrogance or whatever you might want to call it I'd prefer to get on with figuring it out and then make judgements.

sephirosis

John Locke has become the favourite character of many people across the varied internet sites, often leading to rather bizarre theories about him being behind the whole affair and even him being some form of global mastermind as I believe I saw on this very board a few weeks back. Now I don't feel nearly as strongly about him as some do, so I dont buy most of this.
However I did see something in this episode that sparked a bit of suspicion. Jack, Sawyer and Locke are on the trail of Michael, and climbing the steep slope with the aid of a vine. Sawyer asks "You sure Michael came this way?", which is a fair point. Michael, armed and with provisions would have had a bit of a hard time getting up there. Locke immediately says "why do you ask?" to which Sawyer replies with the Vesuvius and Mr Clean comment. Locke then completely turns the conversation on its head by shocking Sawyer with the question about his name. Then they hear the shots, run straight into them and encounter Mr Beard.
It's probably nothing, but why was Locke so evasive? He seemed totally unwilling to answer Sawyer's inquiry as to where they were actually going, and suddenly they run into the others. Maybe Locke is a bit more sinister after all?

chump

1

This show is getting tiresome! It really is. I've gotten much more enjoyment out of the recent episodes of Invasion...

Sorry for being harsh!:D

Now this particular episode, I'd rate maybe 5 or 6.
The little twist at the end was OK. Thing is, these twists don't excite me that much any more as they tend to go nowhere and take an age to get there.

It would have been a much brighter idea if the producers of this show had have said - let's make a damned exciting out-of-this-world show instead of trying to milk it for every minute they can, and boring the pants off us while at it...

stevejazzx

8

sephirosis wrote:

John Locke has become the favourite character of many people across the varied internet sites, often leading to rather bizarre theories about him being behind the whole affair and even him being some form of global mastermind as I believe I saw on this very board a few weeks back. Now I don't feel nearly as strongly about him as some do, so I dont buy most of this.
However I did see something in this episode that sparked a bit of suspicion. Jack, Sawyer and Locke are on the trail of Michael, and climbing the steep slope with the aid of a vine. Sawyer asks "You sure Michael came this way?", which is a fair point. Michael, armed and with provisions would have had a bit of a hard time getting up there. Locke immediately says "why do you ask?" to which Sawyer replies with the Vesuvius and Mr Clean comment. Locke then completely turns the conversation on its head by shocking Sawyer with the question about his name. Then they hear the shots, run straight into them and encounter Mr Beard.
It's probably nothing, but why was Locke so evasive? He seemed totally unwilling to answer Sawyer's inquiry as to where they were actually going, and suddenly they run into the others. Maybe Locke is a bit more sinister after all?

Intereting, as is his 2 visions regarding the 'monster' one good, one bad.
I already mentioned this sawyer comment earlier but didn't suspect Locke evaded because he was the meglomaniacal force behind the entire of lost.
Locke was surprised that he could walk and then lost this ability for a time when discovering the plane with boone, also Locke is extremely interested in the vidoetape and was noticably very nervous when desmond made him push execute on the computer for the first time,taking this into account dismisses aLocke grand master theory i would expect?!

mewso

6

stevejazzx wrote:

cool,
but it's silly to say that it's unpredictable when(judging by input so far) you haven't predicted the basics yet, i will posting a summary to date tonight which you can look at if you wish although i realise you might not want to and prefer to go by each episode which is cool by me

Well I assume you mean silly to say it's less unpredictable which is what I was saying. Of course I would love to hear your take on the basics but don't assume that because I don't theorise as much as you that I don't know the theories that have been expressed here and elsewhere nor that I don't entertain some ideas about it myself from time to time. I was expressing some concerns based on this episode that things might be becoming a bit lacklustre. I expect and hope to be proved wrong.

stevejazzx wrote:

but possibly don't say stuff like 'anyone could of written jacks back story' when you are not in posession of all the information as of yet.

Not quite what I said. I said given the premise. i.e. Write a story on Jack with this premise - Italian bloke needs an operation, sexy daughter. Jack takes it on. Trouble at home. - I think it's not that difficult to come up with the "you can't fix everything Jack/you always need something to fix" parable and explain the breakup of the marriage as you do it. Perhaps there is significance to the Italian bloke that I don't know of (he did star in an early Star Trek Voyager episode though.) Having a certain amount of imformation (probably not all but from every episode I have watched i.e. all of them) on Jack I think we all know he likes to fix things on his own. But isn't it nice to have it explained to us all over again. The back story told us that he learnt (or not) that he couldn't fix things on his own but perhaps also that he always needs a challenge and the wife was fixed so that wasn't a challenge anymore but the events on the island tell us he didn't learn anything from this until the end perhaps when he realises he needs an army.

stevejazzx wrote:

As far developing the theory of the idea of lost goes its been months in the doing, myself and the wife have been ironing out stuff since october using a lot of our own ideas(there wasn't much on the web at that time) we were luckly to have stumbled upon one of biggest ideas quite early so have been evolving that since, now i read ultimate theory on the web by andrew smith but thats it, there are many areas where i disagree and many other original ideas which i developed with friends etc.

Thats great. Each to their own. I am interested in the ideas and theories of whats behind this show's plot but perhaps not enough to spend too much time on it. I expect the show to reveal bits and pieces as it goes and every now and again I will see some good insight or links to it here but in the end I also want to enjoy each episode for what it is if possible. And I am always willing to be patient with it if is serving a purpose. I have liked some episodes that others haven't for various reasons. We all get different things out of it.

stevejazzx wrote:

I just find it more interesting when I know whats going on because its easier to hear and see the new clues. Although I love the show, its not religous and I'm not scouring the web for stuff as the worst scenario i can imagine is having the whole thing outlined to me before I see it.

Well again I think I know enough of whats going on to get alot out of it. Perhaps if some character says "ribbit" I won't know that it is a reference to season one episode 5's 25th minute conversation between character A and B but if someone mentions that it does here then I'll know but I won't be noting it in my Lost folder.
As I said each to their own.

SandyVN

7

stevejazzx wrote:

Intereting, as is his 2 visions regarding the 'monster' one good, one bad.
I already mentioned this sawyer comment earlier but didn't suspect Locke evaded because he was the meglomaniacal force behind the entire of lost.
Locke was surprised that he could walk and then lost this ability for a time when discovering the plane with boone, also Locke is extremely interested in the vidoetape and was noticably very nervous when desmond made him push execute on the computer for the first time,taking this into account dismisses aLocke grand master theory i would expect?!

Id agree but im still waiting on a big shock. I dont think we know even a 3rd about lock yet & i get the feeling there is still plenty of surprizes to come.

Just a question the record "Geronammo Jackson" anybody else seem to think they talked about this a bit to much. No1 heard of it before.. Maybe some info on it?? Only a thought.

Ciaran500

8

http://www.newbabynews.net/hospitals/sh7/public/sacredheartbirthannouncement.pl?babyID=h7-7387

doh.ie

6

I didn't think this was anywhere near as good as last week, despite the meeting with the Others (which was its highlight). I'd give it a 7, largely pulled down by Jack's backstory.

This is now the second, possibly third, time there's been a Jack backstory which added nothing of any substance to his character. The only thing I thought it did was make somewhat more 'real' his emotions during the "I married her!" conversation with Desmond in 2x03. (Until then we'd seen him have doubts about marrying her, then going on to marry her, and then the earlier flashback - which came later - of Sarah's accident and operation.) I felt the emotional trauma was only now more poignant, because we'd actually gotten to see what kind of a weak marriage they ended up with. (This season has been badly let down by dodgy flashbacks - 2x02 was bad, 2x03 wasn't great, 2x05 was woeful, 2x09 wasn't hectic and now 2x11 as well.)

Other than that, interesting to see Alex turn up. The Others' campfire meeting was interesting, but like Steveland (I think) above, I can't understand why Jack didn't just ask, "Look, who are YOU? How long have YOU been her? Did you crash? Are you with Dharma?" etc. etc. The kind of questions any normal person would ask, hostage situation or not. Jack could also have asked why they can't cross the line - is it because it's Others' territory, or for some other island reason?

I'll have to watch the scene again but it appeared to me that Sawyer shot and missed Zeke, and yet somehow he got grazed himself. Was this telekinesis at work, or was it manipulation of the island's electromagnetic field on the metal? I also think, like a post above, that the seven shots not tallying up with the cases found is very deliberate.

Again, as someone mentioned, Sayid finding out about the group going after Michael only to (apparently) do nothing, seemed a bit off. Or just sloppy writing.

The Sun/Jin stuff was, I suspect, primarily designed to *not* have Jin join the hunting party (cos too many characters would need to be served otherwise). But at the same time, they wanted a plausible explanation as to why he didn't go. What I originally was passing off as weak filler actually turned back around when Sun told Jin she had lived under his thumb for years. I thought that redeemed what was otherwise pretty flimsy material.

Ironically, one of the best scenes for me in the episode was the Charlie/Hurley conversation in the hatch. Really funny, unrelated to anything and just enjoyable to watch. You can sense a real friendship there. The Libby stuff is obviously going somewhere (I suspect his next flashback will deal with his time in the psychiatric hospital; she may have a connection to it alright). I also reckon there's a Charlie flashback coming up, given the drugs stash and his separation from Claire and anxiety over Locke becoming a 'dad' in place of him.) I don't want to know if those flashbacks are due if anyone knows, just pointing out they seem to be moving towards one involving just characters. (Half the fun with Lost is in not knowing who's up.)

I also reckon Sawyer is going to have a flashback before long, mostly because the resurrection of the James Ford/Sawyer not on the manifest seemed oddly timed. That Locke knew this since 1x10 - and never said anything - is very strange, considering that he must have had a conversation with Hurley to say Sawyer was James Ford (did they find a passport?) which caused Hurley to realise that Ethan wasn't on the plane. This is, I reckon, a plot hole from season one they wanted to fix. (I believe they made the mistake and it wasn't intentional and now they're mentioning it in dialogue to both acknowledge and fix the earlier error and to have it go somewhere new.)

Back to the campfire meeting (lol @ the Survivor comparison above, btw!), I liked how Zeke asked Jack "How long have you been on the island?". Why did he ask this? If the Ultimate Theory is right this suggests that a lot more time has passed since the flight than they think... But it might not have been a question that actually pointed to anything like this. (I still think bringing cryogenics into the actual Lost answer will be horrifying to mainstream audiences and fans alike and most won't buy it.)

I don't think Ethan was one of this bunch of Others, based on Zeke's response to Jack. He doesn't seem at all like them, but he did seem much more like Goodwin. There may well be rival groupings of Others on the island.
Liked the Hanso quote connection - I also reckon this guy is one of the DeGroots. Certainly looks like him. Was he involved in 'the incident' that caused the project to go wrong?

More answers (well, hints anyway) given, much more needed.

Musician wrote:

I think Lost is great tv (second only to BSG imo) but is in danger of getting deeper and deeper into a quagmire of obscure storyline. I am relying on the fact that the writers know exactly where they are going with this but I think it's approaching a point where some threads need to come together soon or it'll start to be a turnoff.

Agree 100%. That says what I've long believed - this ultimate solution to Lost has to make sense and be satisfying. But more than that, with the drip-feed of information in season one and now vital stuff like the campfire meeting happening, it now needs to move to a point where by season's end we KNOW who these Others are, or we know who/what Dharma is. Questions have to be answered or it'll just get lost (pardon the pun) in its own mythology. You can't keep piling clue upon clue, or you'll risk the mystery being hidden completely beneath them. (We all know The X-Files made that mistake; Lost hasn't - yet - but there's a fine line.)

So not the worst episode, but not near as good as 2x10 either (though in many ways that revealed less.) Let's hope for some swift progress on the 'army' training. Consider JJ Abrams' recent interview on the horse Kate found in 2x09 said that he

planned to have the group find a whole herd of horses in season 3 because every army needs a cavalry (or words to that effect). I'm now suspecting this might actually happen a lot sooner... (If that battle does drag into s3, I expect audiences will be even more angry than at the hatch not being glimpsed properly in s1!)