Am I right or wrong - problems with a shoe shop.

Fenster

I'm not going to name the store in question here as I see enough mud-dragging of different store names on this board and as I work in the retail trade myself, I tend to be more sympathetic than most to the retailer's side of things, if they uphold their side of the sale.

I purchased a pair of runner shoes from this store on November 19 and by December 5 both shoes had developed large holes on their tops in roughly the same spots that freely allowed in water. The shoes were priced at 25 euro, marked down from 60 euro. Cheap shoes maybe, but still...

I was unable to return the shoes to the store until December 10, due to work. On the day I returned them, the manager in the store offered me a credit note for the shop, but I refused it, asking instead for a refund on the point that the shoes were defective and should not allow in water like they did after two weeks of normal wear and tear.

She told me that she couldn't authorise a refund on her on authority due to the nature of my complaint. Instead she would need to post the shoes to her head office to be examined and that she would call me the following day to follow up the issue and that her head office would either call me later in the month, or depending on christmas, early in January. I agreed to this, left my details and the shoes with her (retaining the reciept) and left the store. I then purchased replacment shoes in Elverys for 55 euro.

Neither call ever materialised.

I let the matter slide until today, when I went back into the store. The manager informed me that I should have by now recieved a letter explaining that I wasn't to be given a refund as the head office considered the shoes to be of merchantable quality under the Sales of Goods and Services Act. Indeed, it stated I was to blame for "excessive" wear and tear on the shoes. I hadn't recieved a letter and asked to see her copy of it. It was dated the 10th of January. So in my mind they weren't in a hurry to contact me.

Barring a phone call to their head office once I recieve a copy of the letter, that will resolve the issue, I plan to just cut the crap and take them directly to the small claims court. I've worked long enough in the retail trade to know when the company I'm dealing with is just screwing about with me and this company is doing so. I plan to seek both the cost of the original shoes (25 euro) and the cost of my replacement shoes (55 euro), as compensation.

I consider myself to be in the right in this matter, but obviously I would like a second opinion, or I wouldn't be posting.

bbbbb

I would tend to agree with you.

No first hand experience of SMC, but from what I've read else where, they like specifics (dates, recepits, letters etc.) and that an attempt was reached at a solution.

With that in mind, I would first write back to the shop in question, saying you disagree that the shoes were of merchantible quality, that you expect a full refund & that if you don't hear back within (say) 2 weeks, you intend to pursue the matter throught the SMC.

Not sure how much luck you'll have with the second pair though.

Let us know what happens.

Fenster

I have the reciept kept and a full log of specific times and dates kept.

dudara

Go for it, the shoes were not fit for the purpose intended.

Fenster

I stand corrected a little on my above post, they didn't quote Irish law, they quoted English law in their letter:

Refunds will only be given where there is a Breach in the Sales of Goods Act 79

Would this give me more ground to stand on, I wonder?

Sponge Bob

Fenster wrote:

I stand corrected a little on my above post, they didn't quote Irish law, they quoted English law in their letter:

The test in Irish law is that the goods are "Fit For The Purpose" . If they spring a leak in Ireland within a month while under no undue stress ,and in winter too , they are not "Fit For The Purpose" are they.

Fenster

I believe that fully, but what I was asking was if their head office was so ignorant of law that they quoted English law at me, would it strengthen my hand? I would call them directly to raise this point, but alas that I'm dying the flu right now

Sponge Bob

it would help mightily in the small claims court because it is written evidence that their entire 'process' is totally dysfunctional, try www.odca.ie for specific advice about these english chain stores and their ignorance of our law.

make sure you charge in court for your time on this, its the only way these people will learn

dahamsta

Sponge Bob wrote:

make sure you charge in court for your time on this, its the only way these people will learn

I've never been quite sure whether I should advise people to do this when they ask me about consumer issues. Are time spent dealing with an issue and travel expenses to and from the court itself valid as part of a claim? I think they should be, but that's not the same as saying they are.

adam

Sponge Bob

Ken Shabby wrote:

. Are time spent dealing with an issue and travel expenses to and from the court itself valid as part of a claim?

Apart from that first visit to the shop with exhibit a in hand , namely a borked shoe, everything else is chargeable in my opinion.

Fenster

The courts here are a five minute walk from my home, so claiming costs isn't all that much. In truth personal experience, claiming additional costs for this - other than for the replacment shoes - strikes me as excessive.

EDIT:

I have the letter uploaded here.

Sponge Bob

and that is not a Galway number , they gave a Dublin prefix ......more time wasted <sigh> , more costs , more grief !

that letter is bollox and relies in its entirety on UK consumer law ...if even...and their big mistake was that they quoted UK consumer law which is not applicable here as their defence. You should try to get the ODCA onto them too, far too many of these morons come in here and quote UK consumer law at us when we question their practises and shoddy dysfunctional products . Thats because they train their local management in this non applicable UK law as well .

Normally , in this kind of situation, I go into the store when its really busy on a saturday , ask for the manager and no one else , and then wave around the shoes and make lots of noise if they do not agree with me that the shoes are not "Fit For The Purpose" as they should be in Irish consumer law.

I have a 100% track record .:p

dahamsta

Sponge Bob wrote:

Normally , in this kind of situation, I go into the store when its really busy on a saturday , ask for the manager and no one else , and then wave around the shoes and make lots of noise if they do not agree with me that the shoes are not "Fit For The Purpose" as they should be in Irish consumer law.

That's the only time you can drag me into a shop at peak time (one of the many advantages of self-employment).

From now on, this will be referred to as The Sponge Bob Way.

adam

Sponge Bob

Ken Shabby wrote:

That's the only time you can drag me into a shop at peak time

Seeing as you discovered the same modus operandi quite independently it could equally be called The Real Ken Shabby

Hit them when they are packed

Fenster

lol

I felt much better this afternoon, so I did call back the company representitive who wrote the letter. She was extremely confrontational and aggressive, "clarified" me by saying their company policy is based on English law and told me if I wished to take the matter further I should go to court, before hanging up. She also berated me for my "excessive" use of the shoes.

In short, she wouldn't hear me out and used a Chewbacca defense.

Sponge Bob

Fenster wrote:

She was extremely confrontational and aggressive, "clarified" me by saying their company policy is based on English law and told me if I wished to take the matter further I should go to court, before hanging up. She also berated me for my "excessive" use of the shoes.

Its Time for a name and shame Fenster I fears . Given that you posted up the letter its OK at this stage. Basically I do not fancy giving any money to this shower of ignoramuses . I would strongly urge you to contact the ODCA right now and to publish what the ODCA has to say about this .....they will come down on your side for sure. Do remember the following .

1. Ireland has made its own laws since 1921 unless I am mistaken and unless the rag trade somehow knows better.
2. Irish consumers are in Ireland not in England , had I bought the shoes in Glasgow not Galway my statutory rights would be decided under Scottish law.
3. English Law (such as 1979 sale of goods acts) do not apply in Ireland .
4. Irish acts such as the consumer act 1980 equally do not apply in England.
5. The applicable set of consumer laws are always those in the state in which you made the purchase save some extra stuff to do with ecommerce directives which do not apply to brick and mortar shops.

Fenster

Well you're right, I do need to name the companies involved, as you have a right to know so as to avoid any bad encounters in the future. I had several questions on the matter that I couldn't get answered here "definately," so I forwarded my record of the entire matter to the ODCA, who came back with answers, as you might imagine.

Anyways, the store in question is Mx Active in the Galway Shopping Centre in Galway and their parent company is The Jean Scene.

Sponge Bob

Fenster wrote:

I forwarded my record of the entire matter to the ODCA, who came back with answers, as you might imagine.

anything of use , are they prepared to explain our laws to the saxon retail hordes ?

Time Magazine

The relevant legislation is the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980. Under section 10 of this Act, goods must be of "merchantable quality" and "durable as it is reasonable to expect".

To the best of my knowledge, this does not entitle you to the price of the new pair of shoes. Compensation would have to be sought through other means. Don't know if you'd get that though - it seems reasonable enough that they send the shoes back to HQ to check if they're faulty.

Fenster

Yeah, I got cleared up on that point. For me its more the princpal of the matter than anything else. I was treated like crap by their store and I feel I'm well in the right.

RevBlueJeans

Hi Fenster,

Have you considered the Small Claims Court?
http://oasis.gov.ie/justice/small_claims_court/small_claims_court.html

Rev BJ