Staunton's first Ireland squad?

eirebhoy

There's a decent debate on this topic on another forum so I felt I'd post it here. What players would you like to see Stan call up for the Sweden friendly in a months time? This is just my opinion.

Shay Given
Paddy Kenny
Wayne Henderson

Steve Finnan
Ian Harte
Stephen Kelly
John O'Shea
Richard Dunne
Andy O'Brien
Gary Breen
Paddy McCarthy

Damien Duff
Andy Reid
Ronnie O'Brien
Steven Reid
Graham Kavanagh
Stephen Ireland
Joey O'Brien
Kevin Kilbane

Robbie Keane
Clinton Morrison
Kevin Doyle
Lee Trundle
Stephen Elliott

Its actually tough when you pass the defenders to choose midfielders and strikers which is a good headache for Stan to have. I feel he has to call up more than the usual 23 but the squad shouldn't be too big as it would surely just mess up training, etc.

There's a few odd inclusions there. Henderson's in because he has just moved on from U21 level where he was first choice for us and is now playing regularly for Brighton where he's highly thought of.

Matt Holland's not there because he hasn't performed for us in a long time and is in and out of the Charlton team. Kilbane's in there to add an experienced player that will put in a better shift.

The big suprise one is someone I looked up on today, Ronnie O'Brien. The MLS season is over and he finished 2nd in the assist charts with 12 and also got 6 goals. He's a proper right winger that can beat his man and whip in a cross which we're missing. He's one of the best players in the MLS, the best right midfielder anyway as he has that position in the Allstars team. Listen to the commentators rave about him in this match against New England and have a look at the goal he scores:
http://media.putfile.com/Ronnie-OBrien-vs-New-England

Another excellent goal:
http://media.putfile.com/Ronnie-OBrien-GOTW-3

A couple of incidents he was involved in playing for the Allstars team against Fulham (they won 4-1):
http://media.putfile.com/Ronnie-OBrien-vs-Fulham

Lee Trundle's just in there to get the chance he's been waiting for so long.

BTW - My first choice full backs would be Finnan left full, Kelly right full. Finnan is one of the best full backs in the premiership, probably the most solid, and has played left back plenty of times for Fulham. He also played there for us against Switzerland and did pretty well. I rate Kelly highly as a right back and will no doubt be filling that position for us regularly before too long.

Necronomicon

Well if he is to pursue the granny route I'd rather see Kitson over Trundle.

eirebhoy

Necromomicon wrote:

Well if he is to pursue the granny route I'd rather see Kitson over Trundle.

Well, Trundle is Irish. Kitson clearly stated he didn't want to play for us as he didn't feel Irish. If Kitson wants to play for us he'd be ahead of everyone but Keane for the squad anyway.

MrJoeSoap

Cheers for the clips, Ronnie is certainly deserving of a shot! A mate of mine saw him play for the MLS against Real Madrid during the summer and holds him in high regard.

Wasn't he really high in Time magazines "Person of the Millenium" or something off-the-wall like that??

eirebhoy

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Wasn't he really high in Time magazines "Person of the Millenium" or something off-the-wall like that??

Ronnie O'Brien: Man of the Century?
By Trevor Keane - January 10, 2003

Trevor Keane tracks the career of former Juventus starlet Ronnie O'Brien, now in the process of resurrecting his career in the USA.

Back in the year 2000 everybody was going dot.com crazy - if it was to do with Internet then it was hot, very hot.

That year Time online magazine ran a poll to see who was the most important person of the century, the winner, contrived by thousands of soccer hungry Irish fans was none other than Ronnie O'Brien.

Time online eventually realised something was not right and restricted the nomination to 100 people with Albert Einstein eventually winning but the people had already spoken.

So what had Ronnie done to earn the respect of the Irish, well he had just signed for none other than Italian giants Juventus, that's what.

After Bryan Robson had decided that he was not good enough to make the grade at Middlesborough and released him, Juventus stepped in. Juventus had seen a video of Ronnie playing for the Irish U18 team that won the European Championship and were impressed.

All that was needed was an agent, this is where football genius Paul Merson stepped in. Merson put the Irish youngster in touch with his agent. The agent who now represents Ronnie had contacts in Italy and after meeting with Robert Bettega (this former player speaks perfect English as he shared a room for a while with Liam Brady) and the General Manager; Ronnie signed a five-year deal.

After 2 ½ months and a first team debut in the Intertoto Cup O'Brien was loaned out to Lugano in Switzerland. However there were internal problems at Lugano and he returned to Turin.

Upon return he was sent to Crotone who at the time were leading the Serie C and eventually promoted. Although Crotone were top when he arrived the experience was very beneficial to O'Brien and he returned to Turin hungry for first team football.

O'Brien was soon loaned out to another Italian club Lecco, this time getting the chance to play in Serie B.

The lack of a reserve team at Juventus seemed to be hindering his progress and it was no surprise to learn after his spell with Lecco that he would be going on loan again.

This time, after a trial with a then David Platt managed Nottingham Forest was stopped after international clearance failed to arrive, he ended up on Scottish shores with Dundee United.

Alex Smith was another one to see potential in the youngster, and it was agreed that after a season long loan that if Ronnie impressed he would be signed on a permanent basis. But it seems to be the case that Ronnie is not living up to his enormous potential and after 13 games and a goal there was another club on the horizon.

This time he left European shores for the chance to play major league soccer in North America, signing for the Dallas Burn. Mick Jeffries, the coach of the Burn saw enough potential to cut one man from their roster and grant a visa to the Irishman.

It looks as though under the guidance of Jeffries we may see Ronnie back in Europe as he is finally settling down and playing good football.

He scored the golden goal in the quarter final of the Lamar Hunt cup. Ronnie was also involved in the victory over a Carlos Valderama/John Spencer lead Colorado Rapids team in the play off series, although the Burn eventually suffered the heartbreak of losing to a golden goal in the final game.

Time will only tell if Ronnie lives up his potential but not many 23 years old can say that they have trained with Zidane, shared a room with Antonio Conte and played against Carlos Valderrama.

MrJoeSoap

Thought I heard that somewhere alright!

How could he not be in the Ireland squad!

dr zoidberg

Man, he looks absolute quality. It's impossible to judge a player without seeing a few full matches of them, but he does seem to be a great dribbler and crosser. When we were playing Switzerland hardly a single decent cross was put in. He may be more style than substance but we seriously need creativity in the midfield. He definitely deserves a cap just to see anyway.

If we're going to try and exploit the granny rule we should also take a serious look at the Irish American population as well. There's got to be a few more decent players who'd be eligible for Irish citizenship.

---Off-topic
Just looked at Brian Kerr's article on Wikipedia:

Kerr was hugely successful in taking the positive results and impressive performances of his underage sides with him to the senior level.

Must have wrote it himself.

eirebhoy

dr zoidberg wrote:

Man, he looks absolute quality. It's impossible to judge a player without seeing a few full matches of them, but he does seem to be a great dribbler and crosser.

Most of Dallas's matches can be watched on this site:
http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/sights/index.jsp?club=fcd

Just select a week from the drop down menu and click the 350k link under archive/video. I think I'll watch one some time.

Tusky

Stephen Elliot should start up front.

MrJoeSoap

Tusky wrote:

Stephen Elliot should start up front.

He's most likely out for the rest of the season.

Pigman II

I'd limit the squad to (barring injuries) having only players who have played at least 1/3 their league games this season in Prem or (at least 1/2 for) Div1 (or equivilant to those 2 leagues). Otherwise whats the point? I hope Trundle isn't called up whilst he's still a league1 player either. Despite not wanting him anyway atm I think it sends out a bad message that we need to scrape the bottom of the barrel at this point.

Also I'd organise a unglamourous B-match down the country sometime for all these blow-in's that are being touted around to see how truly committed they are to the premise of playing for us.

BillyBoy

Why has nobody pointed out the fact that Ian Harte is in that squad??? I like the lad but lets face it he isn't an international full back. Is he still playing in the second division in Spain?

And Holland has scored a few goals for Charlton recently hasn't he?

Big Nelly

eirebhoy wrote:

Shay Given
Paddy Kenny
Wayne Henderson

Steve Finnan
Ian Harte
Stephen Kelly
John O'Shea
Richard Dunne
Andy O'Brien
Gary Breen
Paddy McCarthy

Damien Duff
Andy Reid
Ronnie O'Brien
Steven Reid
Graham Kavanagh
Stephen Ireland
Joey O'Brien
Kevin Kilbane

Robbie Keane
Clinton Morrison
Kevin Doyle
Lee Trundle
Stephen Elliott

Well really can't disagree with many of the choices there but I did have a bit of a raised eye brow at Ronnie O'Brien. Anyway all thou speaking with a little bias I think that Whelan should be brough into the squad. Just to give him a taste. Not having the best of season so far but I think that is the step up and the problem with the Shef Wed squad more than the player himself.

Him and Joey(who is playing out of position at the moment) are the future midfield for Ireland so the quicker they get into the squad for experience the better.

Not sure why everyone keeps Kav in the squad, he is a joke to be honest. Seen enough of him already around the Irish team and he is a liability. Has had a couple of bad games for Wigan as well. We need to look to the future not to the past and average at best midfielders. Would put Quinn in there instead. Great players and doing great things at Shef Utd(spit). Hate saying it but true, done great things at Wed before going across the road to try and break into Ireland team. Just to show how cr*p Kerr was, Quinn in squad and getting a few caps while playing for Wed in old Division 2, moves to Division one/Championship to try and break into team and Kerr stops picking him. F**king joke.

Please lose Gary Breen out of the team, again he is not the future, maybe bring in that young bloke thats playing for Brighton, McShane isn't it? Breen has already shown he is not fit to play in PL let alone international football. Best in the Championship for him.

Apart;) from that I would say ok, Robbie Keane as Captain. Didn't post on captain thread because to be honest I am not sure what people are thinking about on that thread. Mentions of Kav and Kilbane as captain. FFS do some people watch football at all

Big Nelly

BillyBoy wrote:

Why has nobody pointed out the fact that Ian Harte is in that squad??? I like the lad but lets face it he isn't an international full back. Is he still playing in the second division in Spain?

Yes, a move to Sunderland and Celtic fell through

BillyBoy wrote:

And Holland has scored a few goals for Charlton recently hasn't he?

One at bestm think I remember him scoring one. Is nto first choice anymore and would probably move if he was any other footballer but he doesn't want to leave the area because it is handy for his wife work. She has horses or something. Talk about proper whipped. Don't need a "man" like that in the squad

GuanYin

Big Nelly wrote:

Apart;) from that I would say ok, Robbie Keane as Captain. Didn't post on captain thread because to be honest I am not sure what people are thinking about on that thread. Mentions of Kav and Kilbane as captain. FFS do some people watch football at all

Yeah, and there is no way in hell I'd give Keane the captains armband. The only think Keane deserves with repect to the Irish set up is a kick up the ass, he hasn't performed for Ireland in a long time and seems intent on trying all the flicks, tricks and DIY specials that he'd get dropped for at spurs. He doesn't play for the team at all. Now what I wantin a captain.

Ronnie O'Brien, there is a name I haven't heard in a long time. I'm sorry I still don't rate MLS, I'd like to see him in the PL or even the championship for a half season before I'd see him in the Irish team.

We're screwed in central midfield. I'd like to have seen Keane stick around (it'd mean no staunton for one things) but failing that we have Joey O'Brien (rated and groomed at Bolton by Fernando Hierro).

I still hold a faint hope that Nolan can be lured into the team.

Staunton has said that he'd exploit the granny rule to the max, what other potentials are there? Apart from Doyle I've heard of another Reading striker but apart from that.....

Villain

Well I'd like to see Steven Reid and Stephen Ireland get their chance in the middle.

I'm surprised McGeady isn't been mentioned he's having a good run in the SPL and should be given his chance, no point flogging dead horeses like Kilbane or Holland anymore, get the young lads in and build a new team around them.

GuanYin

irish1 wrote:

Well I'd like to see Steven Reid and Stephen Ireland get their chance in the middle.

I'm surprised McGeady isn't been mentioned he's having a good run in the SPL and should be given his chance, no point flogging dead horeses like Kilbane or Holland anymore, get the young lads in and build a new team around them.

I think the problem is that the Stephens Reid and Ireland are both quite attacking orientated, we'd be walked through by teams with a halfway decent midfield. Any chance Diarra is Irish?

Seriously though, even if we got Nolan (who I rate above the stephens) he is another attacking midfielder. We really need a holding player - maybe Joey O'Brien?

McGeady is someone I'd look at long before Ronnie O'Brien.


My ideal team (only if they all played first team football)would be:

---

Given

---

Finnan

---

Dunne

---

A. O'Brien

---

Kelly

---

J. O'Brien

---

A.Reid

---

S.Reid

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Elliot

---

A.Reid gets in because some midfield experience is needed, Finnan prefered on right as Reid isn'tthe best defensively.

I'd slowly bring Ireland in and maybe move S.Reid out to the right over A.Reid. I'd put Nolan in first choice if he was eligible and declared.

PHB

Jesus, Ronnie O'Brien, theres a blast from the past.

Big Nelly

psi wrote:

Yeah, and there is no way in hell I'd give Keane the captains armband. The only think Keane deserves with repect to the Irish set up is a kick up the ass, he hasn't performed for Ireland in a long time and seems intent on trying all the flicks, tricks and DIY specials that he'd get dropped for at spurs. He doesn't play for the team at all. Now what I wantin a captain.

Have you been watching any of the Spurs games when Keane was captain. He was there best playing and linking up play well. See the thread on here about Spurs v Man City he was brillant that night. Robbie needs to be playing all the time and then he is on top of his game. Last while he was in and out of the team at Spurs and it showned with his performances for Ireland. He is still the best striker we have and one of our top players so why everyone seems to have a problem with him is beyond me.

psi wrote:

Ronnie O'Brien, there is a name I haven't heard in a long time. I'm sorry I still don't rate MLS, I'd like to see him in the PL or even the championship for a half season before I'd see him in the Irish team.

Couple of good players coming out of US....F**k F**k at Utd, centre back at Blackburn to name 2 off the top of my head. THe quality in that league is growing so he should be rated. Saying you don't rate him because he doesn't play in England is abit short sighted

psi wrote:

We're screwed in central midfield. I'd like to have seen Keane stick around (it'd mean no staunton for one things) but failing that we have Joey O'Brien (rated and groomed at Bolton by Fernando Hierro).

Don't think Hierro had much influence on O'Brien. Spent most of last season on loan and Shef Wed and I think Sturrock did more for him that Hierro. He wasn't near the first team last season. Spent a while at Wed and even thou we wanted to keep him Sam wanted him back to get first team action there because he had done so well. Would like to see him playing in the middle thou for them

Why would you keep Keane around? he is too old and we need to look to the future. Maybe move Keane into a coaching role or something but that won't happen when Stan is around

psi wrote:

I still hold a faint hope that Nolan can be lured into the team.

Why would you slag off Keane who has played with pride for Ireland and then mention this "person" in the same reply? he has already said he wants to play for England and has turned down Ireland on numerous occasions. Big Sam told him as well not to declare for Ireland. If you want evidence watch the build up to the Bolton v Spurs game earlier this season where he talked thru the whole interview about how great it would be to play for England. Leave him where he is, hope he never gets a cap for any country.

psi wrote:

Staunton has said that he'd exploit the granny rule to the max, what other potentials are there? Apart from Doyle I've heard of another Reading striker but apart from that.....

Well the granny rule takes alot of research so until Stan approachs a player you don't really hear about them. How many people knew about Kitson could play for Ireland before last week?

Lemlin

Originally posted by Big Nelly
Apart from that I would say ok, Robbie Keane as Captain. Didn't post on captain thread because to be honest I am not sure what people are thinking about on that thread. Mentions of Kav and Kilbane as captain. FFS do some people watch football at all

Couldn't agree more. Graham Kavanagh! How many international teams have a captain who's made two competitive starts in the last five years? It'd be making a joke of the team.

For me, the captaincy would have to go to Dunne, Given or Keane.

Originally posted by psi

---

Given

---

Finnan

---

Dunne

---

A. O'Brien

---

Kelly

---

J. O'Brien

---

A.Reid

---

S.Reid

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Elliot

---

I like that team. Morrission could be an impact sub to throw on late in a Cazza style. Steven Reid could be vital for the Ireland team over the next few years on think. On very good form for Blackburn and looked bright in the last few qualifiers (despite Kerr showing how inept he was by not starting him).

Wouldn't mind seeing an alternative partner for Dunne though. O'Brien is to prone to errors IMO.

Villain

psi wrote:

I think the problem is that the Stephens Reid and Ireland are both quite attacking orientated, we'd be walked through by teams with a halfway decent midfield. Any chance Diarra is Irish?

Seriously though, even if we got Nolan (who I rate above the stephens) he is another attacking midfielder. We really need a holding player - maybe Joey O'Brien?

McGeady is someone I'd look at long before Ronnie O'Brien.


My ideal team (only if they all played first team football)would be:

---

Given

---

Finnan

---

Dunne

---

A. O'Brien

---

Kelly

---

J. O'Brien

---

A.Reid

---

S.Reid

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Elliot

---

A.Reid gets in because some midfield experience is needed, Finnan prefered on right as Reid isn'tthe best defensively.

I'd slowly bring Ireland in and maybe move S.Reid out to the right over A.Reid. I'd put Nolan in first choice if he was eligible and declared.

Well S. Reid is attacking but he can also get stuck in and hold, I wouldn't have Andy Reid in unless he moves and starts playing regulary. I'd have John O' Shea in at left back, with Kelly as cover, O'Shea hasn't been great for us but his height is a great advantage for corners and freekicks in both boxes.

GuanYin

Big Nelly wrote:

Have you been watching any of the Spurs games when Keane was captain. He was there best playing and linking up play well. See the thread on here about Spurs v Man City he was brillant that night. Robbie needs to be playing all the time and then he is on top of his game. Last while he was in and out of the team at Spurs and it showned with his performances for Ireland. He is still the best striker we have and one of our top players so why everyone seems to have a problem with him is beyond me.

Because he approaches games for Ireland and Spurs in 2 completely different mind-sets. For Ireland he doesn't look up, he doesn't look around him and probably he gives away the ball more than any other player. He tries too mush trickery when a simple pass would be the better option.

For spurs he doesn't do this, probably because he knows he'd be dropped if he did. For Ireland this isn't the case. It should be noted, that in Kerr's reign Morrison had the superior strike rate. What does that say about our best striker?

Couple of good players coming out of US....F**k F**k at Utd, centre back at Blackburn to name 2 off the top of my head. THe quality in that league is growing so he should be rated. Saying you don't rate him because he doesn't play in England is abit short sighted

No its not. I've seen plenty of MLS games (I go when I'm there, Boston Revolution all the way man) and the quality isn't up there with the PL. Its probably mid-championship quality. The flair and creativity displayed is compounded by the fact that most of the teams couldn't defend to save their lives, although among soccer enthusiasts in the US, many think thats a good thing......

Don't think Hierro had much influence on O'Brien. Spent most of last season on loan and Shef Wed and I think Sturrock did more for him that Hierro. He wasn't near the first team last season. Spent a while at Wed and even thou we wanted to keep him Sam wanted him back to get first team action there because he had done so well. Would like to see him playing in the middle thou for them

Hierro, in an interview, said he rated O'Brien highly, Alderdyce followed this up later by saying that O'Brien was the next big thing and Hierro had taken it upon himself to spend his injured time coaching O'Brien.

Why would you keep Keane around? he is too old and we need to look to the future. Maybe move Keane into a coaching role or something but that won't happen when Stan is around

Experience, coaching. You're right tho.

Why would you slag off Keane who has played with pride for Ireland and then mention this "person" in the same reply?

See above.

PHB

Because he approaches games for Ireland and Spurs in 2 completely different mind-sets. For Ireland he doesn't look up, he doesn't look around him and probably he gives away the ball more than any other player. He tries too mush trickery when a simple pass would be the better option.

For spurs he doesn't do this, probably because he knows he'd be dropped if he did. For Ireland this isn't the case. It should be noted, that in Kerr's reign Morrison had the superior strike rate. What does that say about our best striker?

How Ireland score most goals.
Duff
To Keane
To Duff
To Keane
To random X person
They loose it
Duff gets it back
To Keane
GoAL!!!!

that's why he plays like that for Ireland.
If Steve fixes that though, i.e. gets the rest of the team passing properly, Keano would be once again back to his best for Ireland.

eirebhoy

Pigman II wrote:

I'd limit the squad to (barring injuries) having only players who have played at least 1/3 their league games this season in Prem or (at least 1/2 for) Div1 (or equivilant to those 2 leagues). Otherwise whats the point? I hope Trundle isn't called up whilst he's still a league1 player either. Despite not wanting him anyway atm I think it sends out a bad message that we need to scrape the bottom of the barrel at this point.

Also I'd organise a unglamourous B-match down the country sometime for all these blow-in's that are being touted around to see how truly committed they are to the premise of playing for us.

Well Trundle has been touting the idea of B Internationals for ages so he'd definitely turn up. We have played League 1 players before, I don't see how its scraping the barrell by calling up the best player in the league who'll probably be joining Everton anyway.

Big Nelly wrote:

Not sure why everyone keeps Kav in the squad, he is a joke to be honest. Seen enough of him already around the Irish team and he is a liability. Has had a couple of bad games for Wigan as well. We need to look to the future not to the past and average at best midfielders. Would put Quinn in there instead. Great players and doing great things at Shef Utd(spit). Hate saying it but true, done great things at Wed before going across the road to try and break into Ireland team. Just to show how cr*p Kerr was, Quinn in squad and getting a few caps while playing for Wed in old Division 2, moves to Division one/Championship to try and break into team and Kerr stops picking him. F**king joke.

First of all, whoever the future of Ireland is, atm Kavanagh is twice the player Whelan is. I'd absolutely love Whelan to do well, I've been following him since he moved to Wednesday, but Kav is a lot better. How is he a liability? One bloody bad game for Ireland and he can't play for us anymore? No wonder Cunningham had to retire. Kavanagh is the best holding midfielder we have atm. He's also a player that would make his teammates feel more comfortable when they see him in on the pitch. Quinn can't be in there "instead", they're both filling different positions. That is an insult to me saying I mustn't watch much football because I think Kavanagh is a potential captain.

Your last point just shows your bias. If any manager gave Alan Quinn a chance it was Kerr. From the Poland match up to the Italy match Quinn was called up to every single squad. That's 17 consecutive matches, he was with United for the final 12 of those.

I've seen Kavanagh a lot this season and been impressed with the majority of his performances. There were some mediocre ones but only Steve Finnan is constistantly good. I've just registered the Wigan forum on their official site and here is a few posts from a thread on Who is Wigan's best player:

"After his last 3-4 appearances I'd have to say Kavanagh is our best player, he has been brillaint lately"

"gota be kav by a mile hees bin played fantastic over the past few games, roberts as gone very lazy and doesnt do as much runnin, pascal seems to be getting rather annoyed with other players during game time if u notice but still lovin the guy"

"bullard n chimbonda work there *** off, kavs good and simple, roberts got good strengh but they all play for super wigan latics so there all quality"

"you cant pick 1 player.....there all good but the best for me....kav(he's played bril this season and been my man of the match for nearly every game!!) de zeeuw..."

That's a thread from December 12th and Kavanagh has been doing very well since. He was excellent on Tuesday. This is in reply to a Cardiff fan asking about something and mentioned Kav:

"Kav is a legend and IMO or best midfielder"

I'm not a huge fan of Breen either btw.

Big Nelly

psi wrote:

Because he approaches games for Ireland and Spurs in 2 completely different mind-sets. For Ireland he doesn't look up, he doesn't look around him and probably he gives away the ball more than any other player. He tries too mush trickery when a simple pass would be the better option.

For spurs he doesn't do this, probably because he knows he'd be dropped if he did. For Ireland this isn't the case. It should be noted, that in Kerr's reign Morrison had the superior strike rate. What does that say about our best striker?

Not sure what your point is? I don't see how a player can approach a game differently because he is playign for Ireland? I watched Keane alot over the years and he plays the exact same for club and country.

Talk of A Reid going to the Spurs backup team at Pompey

Big Nelly

eirebhoy wrote:

First of all, whoever the future of Ireland is, atm Kavanagh is twice the player Whelan is. I'd absolutely love Whelan to do well, I've been following him since he moved to Wednesday, but Kav is a lot better. How is he a liability? One bloody bad game for Ireland and he can't play for us anymore? No wonder Cunningham had to retire. Kavanagh is the best holding midfielder we have atm. He's also a player that would make his teammates feel more comfortable when they see him in on the pitch. Quinn can't be in there "instead", they're both filling different positions. That is an insult to me saying I mustn't watch much football because I think Kavanagh is a potential captain.

Wouldn't let him near the captain role. I haven't seen him play one good game for Ireland yet. His distribution has been terrible in every game for Ireland I have seen. Haven't seen much of Wigan, Leeds game was first and again in that game he wasted a number of passes. But I will agree to disagree on this one eirebhoy because we have discussed this numerous times on here. I don't rate him and you do

I mentioned Whelan to be brought into the squad for the experience, I wouldn't put him into the first team. He isn't in the best of form at the moment but as I said the whole dquad isnt and I think the captains role came too early for him.

I would rate Reid as our best central midfielder/holding midfielder. Sky actually showing a few Blackburn games and each game he has done very well. Seems to be back to full fitness and looking as good as he was a few season ago before injury problems. I would play him as the holding midfielder. He can get stuck in with the best of them. Ask Lemlin for more on his performance but I know he has been saying he has been playing great for a while now but nobody noticed even Kerr

eirebhoy wrote:

Your last point just shows your bias. If any player gave Alan Quinn a chance it was Kerr. From the Poland match up to the Italy match Quinn was called up to every single squad. That's 17 consecutive matches, he was with United for the final 12 of those.

Yeah I am biased in regards to Quinn, loved him when he was with Shef Wed and still rate him even thou he done the unthinkable but the main reason for that was because his bro is playing for them as well. Not sure how well he is doing now(his bro I mean)? you have anything on him eirebhoy?

He was in squad but wasn't given a chance, even in friendly matchs. Kerr done nothing for the recycling of the squad. Just stuck with the same players that McCarthy had.

CountryWise

Not a mention of Liam Miller?? he aint good enough for Man Utd but Ireland is a different story, if people like Harte and Breen are mentioned i think he deserves a shout at the squad, he has done it at champions league level for Celtic too in a average team against good opposition!

Big Nelly

CountryWise wrote:

Not a mention of Liam Miller?? he aint good enough for Man Utd but Ireland is a different story, if people like Harte and Breen are mentioned i think he deserves a shout at the squad, he has done it at champions league level for Celtic too in a average team against good opposition!

Im losing it, forgot all about Miller. Squad player for sure, not sure you can say he isn't good enough for Utd. Didn't really get a chance and alot of players just cant handle playing for Utd.

Seen him playing for Leeds twice in the last few weeks. Been there best player in my opinion. Was great against Wigan and was best player on pitch till he got cramp and had to come off. Could have scored with a cracking shot that came off the bar. Also setup most of the attacks and Healy should have scored when Miller ran the pitch with ball and put him thru. Hopefully get full time move in summer to Leeds if in PL or some midtable PL team. Just as long as he is getting his game

He is a PL player. His class shines out in the Championship

Pigman II

eirebhoy wrote:

Well Trundle has been touting the idea of B Internationals for ages so he'd definitely turn up. I don't see how its scraping the barrell by calling up the best player in the league who'll probably be joining Everton anyway.

Fine call him up to the seniors when he's an established player at Everton. Since he's so commited to Ireland it's not like we need to worry about him declaring for a different country in the meantime right?

We have played League 1 players before,

Like who? Martin Rowlands from QPR? Yeah he was a real find wasn't he? Where would we be now without him?

Big Nelly

Pigman II wrote:

Fine call him up when he's an established player at Everton. Since he's so commited to Ireland it's not like we need to worry about him declaring for a different country in the meantime right?

Chariman and manager have come out this week and said he isnt moving in the transfer window

Pigman II wrote:

Like who? Rowlands from QPR? Yeah he was a real find wasn't he? Where would we be now without him?

Alan Quinn, see above for my opinion

eirebhoy

Big Nelly wrote:

Well the granny rule takes alot of research so until Stan approachs a player you don't really hear about them. How many people knew about Kitson could play for Ireland before last week?

Kitson is actually a player that has been mentioned for us a long time now. Here's an article from last February:
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/nationwide1/news/story_get.dor?STORY_NAME=nonwire_soccer/05/02/09/manual_161031.html&TEAMHD=nationwide1

I think he came out after that and said he wasn't interested. Nolan isn't eligible Psi.

Big Nelly wrote:

Wouldn't let him near the captain role. I haven't seen him play one good game for Ireland yet.

Seriously, I don't know how you can say that. Kavanagh usually partnered Kilbane and most of his performances for Ireland were good. Before the Cyprus match, his previous start he got man of the match against China. Brilliant before that against Croatia. Nothing spectular against Cyprus but did his job and Keane was rarely spectacular under Kerr in that position. His debut against Brazil I thought he did very well, as did most people at the time (set pieces excluded). He's a player that would do anything for his country and he showed his passion coming on against Switzerland putting Yakin in his box.

eirebhoy

Pigman II wrote:

Fine call him up to the seniors when he's an established player at Everton. Since he's so commited to Ireland it's not like we need to worry about him declaring for a different country in the meantime right?

Pigman, if you feel Trundle is a Plastic Paddy then so be it but as far as I'm concerned he'd turn down a call from Sven if he got it tomorrow (not going to happen obviously). He is always over in Inchicore and has been at a few Pats games. He wore the Ireland jersey all the time as a kid. He's certainly not a player that wants to play international football to further his career. He wants to play for us because it would be his "dream come through". He is doing so well at Swansea that he deserves a callup just to see what he's like anyway. He certainly believes in his own ability. Put it this way, I'm a huge Celtic fan but if I had to choose between McGeady and Trundle for the next Ireland squad it'd be Trundle hands down.

Vokes

Didn't i read somewhere that Ronnie O'Brien would consider playing for the USA? Can't find the link but anyway he has said a while back that Ireland's youth team management ignored him on several occasions so he'd think twice about joining up with Ireland again,

He and his wife, Vicki, have enjoyed their time so much in Dallas that going back to play in Europe isn't even on his mind right now. The same goes for playing internationally for Ireland, which could use a good right-sided midfielder. After being snubbed too many times at the U-20 and U-21 levels, O'Brien is not about to come running if he is summoned back to play for the full national team.

"I'm not interested," he says. "I have a sour taste in my mouth about it. To be honest, I don't even think about getting to the national team. It's not a great ambition for me. I'm happy playing club football, and just overall happy with my life at the moment."

http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20040512&content_id=2622&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

eirebhoy

READING striker Dave Kitson insists he won't declare for Ireland because he doesn't believe in the 'granny rule'.

Kitson, who celebrates his 26th birthday on Saturday, qualifies to play for Ireland through his now deceased grandfather but he's not interested in pursuing the chance of a shot at international football.

And he adds that he wouldn't want to take away a green jersey that could be destined for his Reading team-mates Kevin Doyle, Shane Long or Stephen Hunt who were all born in Ireland.

Kitson was first linked to Ireland a year ago and at the time he stated he wasn't interested.

However, his name surfaced again this week when new Ireland boss Steve Staunton chose Reading's league game with Coventry for his first scouting mission.

Staunton has subsequently made it quite clear that the 'granny rule' is back in fashion and that he is now actively chasing players like Kitson.

Pedigree

There is no doubt that the 6ft 3ins striker has the type of pedigree Staunton is seeking having scored 13 goals this season and 19 last season for the Royals.

But, if Staunton wants Kitson he faces a tough task to persuade the former Cambridge United striker to change some very strong principles.

"It is obviously flattering, to use an old cliche to be linked with Ireland and it is nice to be thought of so highly by somebody that I respect within the game," said Kitson last night.

"But I wouldn't do it. It's got nothing to do with Ireland or the Irish people and I am certainly not naive enough to think that I am good enough.

"It's just that I don't believe in the grandparent rule and it's something I don't like about international football.

"This is my own little stand and that's just it. I think you should play for the country you were born in.

"We have got a terrific young talent here at Reading called Shane Long, who has just played in two FA Cup ties against West Brom. I don't want to be the player standing in the way of him or Kevin Doyle playing for their country.

"Ireland has their own 100 per cent Irish talent and if people don't agree with me then that's fine because I am not out to win platitudes.

"Ireland have got Kevin Doyle who is doing very well and is very capable of playing international football and in Robbie Keane and Damien Duff they have got some of the best players in the world.

"I think the situation here in England is farcical where you have clubs bringing in a foreign player for the same amount of money that it would cost to nurture three home grown players. That's why FIFA and UEFA are introducing rules about home grown talent."

Kitson explained that he feels English and says he is not sure if he has even any relatives in Ireland at this stage.

"My grandfather, who had emigrated from Ireland, died when my father was quite young so I never knew him. Growing up in Tottenham I wasn't really aware of my Irish roots. Our upbringing was quite English," explained Kitson.

There is a strong Irish influence at Reading where in addition to Doyle, Long and Hunt there is also former U21 goalkeeper Graham Stack in the first team dressing room. "They are all smashing lads," says Kitson.

Impact

Like everybody at Reading, Kitson admits he has been blown away by the impact Kevin Doyle has had on the Championship title race.

"Everybody was waiting for the big transfer signing during the close season but the manager only brought in Kevin, Shane and Hunty.

"But as soon as they got on the training pitch you could see the great potential. We got Kevin for around €70,000 and he is now worth €3million.

"He got called into the Irish squad after about 20 games but you don't become an international player after 20 games.

"You just don't know where the next gem is going to come from.

"He is a fantastic player to play with. He is not afraid to do the work and will run his socks off. While he'd be disappointed not to score as long as the team does well he is happy.

"I sometimes think he is a mirror image of me in terms of playing style. He is a terrific lad," added Kitson.

Doyle's superb start to the season has been rewarded with new improved contract that will keep him at Reading until 2009.

Irish Independant

Big Nelly

eirebhoy wrote:

Kitson is actually a player that has been mentioned for us a long time now. Here's an article from last February:
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/nationwide1/news/story_get.dor?STORY_NAME=nonwire_soccer/05/02/09/manual_161031.html&TEAMHD=nationwide1

I think he came out after that and said he wasn't interested. Nolan isn't eligible Psi.

Never heard about kitson before myself. Even if Nolan is eligible I wouldnt want him near an Irish squad

eirebhoy wrote:

Seriously, I don't know how you can say that. Kavanagh usually partnered Kilbane and most of his performances for Ireland were good. Before the Cyprus match, his previous start he got man of the match against China. Brilliant before that against Croatia. Nothing spectular against Cyprus but did his job and Keane was rarely spectacular under Kerr in that position. His debut against Brazil I thought he did very well, as did most people at the time (set pieces excluded). He's a player that would do anything for his country and he showed his passion coming on against Switzerland putting Yakin in his box.

Disagree here. You aint going to change my mind. I don't rate him at all and nothing will change my mind. I will not be impressed if he is included in the coming squad instead of an up and coming young player.

eirebhoy wrote:

Pigman, if you feel Trundle is a Plastic Paddy then so be it but as far as I'm concerned he'd turn down a call from Sven if he got it tomorrow (not going to happen obviously). He is always over in Inchicore and has been at a few Pats games. He wore the Ireland jersey all the time as a kid. He's certainly not a player that wants to play international football to further his career. He wants to play for us because it would be his "dream come through". He is doing so well at Swansea that he deserves a callup just to see what he's like anyway. He certainly believes in his own ability. Put it this way, I'm a huge Celtic fan but if I had to choose between McGeady and Trundle for the next Ireland squad it'd be Trundle hands down.

Agree here apart from the McGeady bit, I would put both into the squad

Pigman II

Big Nelly wrote:

Chariman and manager have come out this week and said he isnt moving in the transfer window

Well then I hope Trundle enjoys another 6months of showboating and backheeling down there in league1. It's the Champions League's loss I suppose.

Alan Quinn, see above for my opinion

No offence to the guy (I like him as a player) but he's 26 now and still in Division1 so he was hardly a great find either. Even now he's not pushing for a first team place with Ireland and I can't really ever see him being above div1 in standard either.

Show me any guy who has debuted for us whilst in league1 and then has gone on to make any kind of an impact in the game either at club level (or for us) and I might reconsider my opinion.

Pigman II

eirebhoy wrote:

Pigman, if you feel Trundle is a Plastic Paddy then so be it but as far as I'm concerned he'd turn down a call from Sven if he got it tomorrow

I never said I thought he was a plastic paddy. I wouldn't pick an Irishborn guy in his situation either. I think you have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to picking Irish squads and for me personally that is at Championship level.

BillyBoy

eirebhoy wrote:

"We have got a terrific young talent here at Reading called Shane Long, who has just played in two FA Cup ties against West Brom. I don't want to be the player standing in the way of him or Kevin Doyle playing for their country."

Wouldn't mind having Kitson in the squad but fair play to him for saying that and sticking to his principles.

eirebhoy

Pigman II wrote:

I never said he was a plastic paddy. I wouldn't pick an Irishborn guy in his situation either.

Fair enough, it was the "scraping the barrel" comment that made me think you thought of him as a PP. I just want to see what he can do in a friendly as he'd be some player to have on the bench for a 0-0 bore.

Pigman II

eirebhoy wrote:

Fair enough, it was the "scraping the barrel" comment that made me think you thought of him as a PP.

Nah the scraping the barrel comment refers to capping Pat's supporters

Big Nelly

Pigman II wrote:

No offence to the guy (I like him as a player) but he's 26 now and still in Division1 so he was hardly a great find either. Even now he's not pushing for a first team place with Ireland and I can't really ever see him being above div1 in standard either.

Show me any guy who has debuted for us whilst in league1 and then has gone on to make any kind of an impact in the game either at club level (or for us) and I might reconsider my opinion.

he has played in the PL with Shef Wed the season they where relagated. Spurs where about to buy for 2-3million while he was at Wednesday but polictics got in the way. He was Wednesday best player in Division 1 for a number of seasons and got 2-3 player of the season for Wednesday. He also was our best player in Division 2 but at that stage wanted to move back to Division 1 and spent alot of time at loan at Sunderland where McCarthy finally recognize his greatness. Was going to move to Sunderland but they had no cash and tried to give us a young Irish striker in exchange but after 2 months on loan we seen he was brutal so took Quinn back.

He has been one of the best Championship midfielder for a long time now so I think he should be playing, McCarthy never gave him a chance even when Kilbane was brutal for Ireland he wouldn't bring him into the squad, this is why people go on about McCarthy loyalty to players. Stupidity more like.

Kerr never gave him a chance either, putting him on for last 2-3 mins of a game. Even when he only got a few mins shown some great touchs and nearly scored in one game with a great shot from outside the box(he can hit them from a distance I can tell ya)

eirebhoy

Pigman II wrote:

Show me any guy who has debuted for us whilst in league1 and then has gone on to make any kind of an impact in the game either at club level (or for us) and I might reconsider my opinion.

That's actually a good question. Other than the one and only King Kav, did Steve Finnan?

Big Nelly

eirebhoy wrote:

That's actually a good question. Other than the one and only King Kav, did Steve Finnan?

Was Kav not with Cardiff when he played? they where in Championship. Cant remember him getting a cap with Stoke. Wouldn't say he has made an impact. An impact of misplaced passes maybe

Finnan didn't get into the team till he was with Fulham and then Carr was at the top of his game so he was first choice. Also Kelly was in squad at that stage so he wouldn't have got in till he played in PL.

Didnt he move from Conference to Fulham? didnt think he worked through the divisions

eirebhoy

Big Nelly wrote:

Was Kav not with Cardiff when he played? they where in Championship. Cant remember him getting a cap with Stoke. Wouldn't say he has made an impact. An impact of misplaced passes maybe

Kav made his debut in '98 while with Stoke. The Premiership must be really bad if one of Wigan's best players can't pass.

Finnan was in Division 1 when he made his debut, just checked.

Lemlin

eirebhoy wrote:

Kav made his debut in '98 while with Stoke. The Premiership must be really bad if one of Wigan's best players can't pass.

Finnan was in Division 1 when he made his debut, just checked.

Recent results have showed that Wigan are being found out. Jewell will have to buy a few players in the Summer or they'll end up like Ipswich - a one season wonder followed by relegation.

Pigman II

eirebhoy wrote:

That's actually a good question. Other than the one and only King Kav, did Steve Finnan?

Finnan was in TheChampionship (AKA Nationwide Div1) with Fulham when he made his debut for us (v Greece Apr2000).

Kavanagh was in TheChampionship (AKA Nationwide Div1) with StokeCity when he made his debut for us (v Czech Mar1998). Although I almost wish he had been Div2 just to prove my point.

eirebhoy

Pigman II wrote:

Although I almost wish he had been Div2 just to prove my point.

I find it amazing the difference between the views on Kavanagh in this forum compared to foot.ie. One thing that's keeping me going on the 2 threads on this forum is the fact I know Kav will prove you lot wrong. The same can't be said about some players I like, for example, Andy O'Brien.

I actually thought Big Nelly was a lad call OwlsFan on foot.ie but OwlsFan is praising Kavanagh's performance against Leeds so it can't be him.

Big Nelly

eirebhoy wrote:

I find it amazing the difference between the views on Kavanagh in this forum compared to foot.ie. One thing that's keeping me going on the 2 threads on this forum is the fact I know Kav will prove you lot wrong. The same can't be said about some players I like, for example, Andy O'Brien.

Well if Stan plays him hopefully he does do well but I dont think he will prove me wrong. Hasn't done so far

Andy has always done well for Ireland whenever he played

Pigman II

I think Kavenagh was one of those guys who already had a lot to prove but who the general public were always willing to give a chance to despite him not being on the fasttrack careerwise. Thusfar tho I don't think he's put in a performance where you could say "yes! i want that guy in my team".

Bad enough as that state of affairs was, after that performance away to Cyprus (where imho he was the worst player on the worst Irish team I've ever seen in nearly 20 years) he burnt his bridges with a lot of followers myself included. I've seen players thrown into the international wildness for less.

I've no doubt he's motm every week with Wigan (and that's great for him and them) but I've seen him enough times with Ireland now to form the opinion that he is not up to the job.

eirebhoy

Pigman II wrote:

I think Kavenagh was one of those guys who already had a lot to prove but who the general public were always willing to give a chance to despite him not being on the fasttrack careerwise. Thusfar tho I don't think he's put in a performance where you could say "yes! i want that guy in my team".

Bad enough as that state of affairs was after that performance away to Cyprus (where imho he was the worst player on the worst Irish team I've ever seen in nearly 20 years) he burnt his bridges with a lot of followers myself included. I've seen players thrown into the international wildness for less.

I've no doubt he's motm every week with Wigan (and that's great for him and them) but I've seen him enough times with Ireland now to form the opinion that he is not up to the job.

Good post and fair enough. You've formed your opinion over a certain amount of time, I feel Big Nelly has formed his on one match. A match he couldn't seem to pass the ball to a teammate. He was terrible. It was also Kenny Cunningham's worst performance for Ireland by far but he had a decent reputation to fall back on. I'm sure both players would admit they were dreadful. Kavanagh was probably the main cause of the bad performance but I'm not going to write a player off after one bad performance on the back of 4 or 5 decent ones. This is a post by Big Nelly in April last year:

"I want Sunderland and Wigan to go up....and Ipswich in playoffs....>Wigan have Kavanagh in midfield and would like to see him in PL...."

He wanted to see Kavanagh in the premiership. He even included him in a team he'd like to see Ireland put out for a friendly. As soon as the Cyprus game came along and:

"Kavanagh playing? did you watch the game on Sat? everytime the ball went near him he lost it!! get him out of the team and out of the squad.....terrible player....cant pass, cant tackle, cant do much to be honest!!!"

If anyone is going to tell me that is not judging someone on one match then I don't know what is. I've absolutely no doubt, I'm 110% certain, if Kavanagh didn't play for us since the China game that Big Nelly would be praising his performances for Wigan this season. Also, I've never really watch Kavanagh solely in a match so I'm downloading the Wigan-Leeds match now (getting speeds of over 100kb) and I'll let you know truely how many misplaced passes he made.

The Rooster

Just so you don't feel too alone eirebhoy, I confirm that I agree 100% about everything you say about Kavanagh. But people can only base their opinions on what they themselves have seen - so its understandable that some have a lesser view, and don't realise that he is in fact a very fine footballer.