al-quaeda, ooh I'm scared!

souter

Current reports are that an as yet unverified AlQuaeda source threatened US soil and offered a truce if the US pulls out of Iraq.
Mr bin Laden would appear to be indicating that he is terrified of western style democracy taking root in Iraq, and all his resources are marshalled to prevent this happening.

Would anyone else as children have played the kiss and chase game, where even as a an eight year old one had mastered the art of reverse psychology/double bluff - "please don't make me kiss <name deleted by lawyers>!" , while secretly wishing for just that outcome?

Connection? Much the same as when bin Laden popped up late in the Bush - Kerry contest.

These f**kers deserve each other, unfortuneately the rest of us carry the can.

whiskeyman

the CIA have tonight authenticated the tape.
Does anyone else feel very dubious about this?
Since 9/11, AlQueda, and it's apparent leader, have been made out as blood-thirsty,yet highly intelligent terrorists, hellbent on destroying Western society.... why would they bargain for a truce just for the US pulling out of Iraq??
I'm not buying this at all....

breandan

whiskeyman wrote:

the CIA have tonight authenticated the tape.
Does anyone else feel very dubious about this?
Since 9/11, AlQueda, and it's apparent leader, have been made out as blood-thirsty,yet highly intelligent terrorists, hellbent on destroying Western society.... why would they bargain for a truce just for the US pulling out of Iraq??
I'm not buying this at all....

I dunno, in some ways it seems quit smart to me. Although the truce is offered to the Americans the tape like others before it is as much aimed at the Islamic world. This tape tries to gives the impression that Bin Ladin is a defender of the Muslim world who is prepared for war but is willing to make peace.
Its an attempt to come across as a pragmatic statesman in my opinion. Its interesting that most opinion polls post the Jordanian biombing showed sharp drops in support for Zarqawis brand of Jihad within the Islamic world yet Bin Ladin has remained a popular figure within the Islamic world. This I would say is another spoke in the wheel to show the Islamic people that hes gonna be around for a long time and that hes a man who can do business for them.

The translated text of the speech is on the BBC news website btw

JohnK

I think its designed to provoke a reaction along the lines of: Hes offering a truce if we pull out? **** that, send in more troops and crush the bastard!

Dont forget that an occupying army is a great moral boost for the likes of al-quaeda. They get to say the enemy really is at their doorstep and every time the US ****s up and kills/bombs/harasses civilians they are boosting support for the terrorist groups. Al-quaeda may say they want the US to get out but it’s the best recruiting drive they could ever hope for.

patzer117

I think it's ironic that America weren't in Iraq before September 11th when they were attacked, and now the only demand Osama has is for them to get out of Iraq. What a pathetic load of nonsense, i would have expected more from Osama. Does it prove Bush's war on terror is working?

BigArnie

It's all a load of old nonsense really. The Americans deserve Bin Laden and vice versa. I hope they live happily ever after bombing the crap out of each other and, with any luck, leave the rest of us in relative peace.

Davei141

Oul Osamo always pops up when bushes approval ratings fall, i wouldnt be suprised if that tape was 2 years old.

bonkey

souter wrote:

Current reports are that an as yet unverified AlQuaeda source threatened US soil and offered a truce if the US pulls out of Iraq.
Mr bin Laden would appear to be indicating that he is terrified of western style democracy taking root in Iraq, and all his resources are marshalled to prevent this happening.

I would look at it slightly differently.

If we assume tape and the timing of its are genuine, then what do we have...

The US just used a Predator-launched missile to fire on some alleged Al Qaeda leaders. The end result is that they are claiming a success with some prominent figures killed, and blandly disregarding the innocent lives that they snuffed out in order to achieve this goal. They do all of this, while decrying the similar disregard for innocents that the terorrists show, and insisting that every life is sacred to them.

bin Laden comes along, and offers peace - a peace he knows will not be accepted. The US reject this, naturally, but where does this leave us? The US kill innocents (Muslims) when they're in the way, but says that such actions when carried out by others are the embodiment of the evil we are fighting. The US will reject offers of peace, but says that peace is the objective.

Please note - I'm not saying I agree with the impressions both sides are portraying, but bin Laden's announcement was not primarily focussed on the West. His message was targetted at the Islamic people in the Middle East, and is an attempt to reinforce the belief held by some/many that the US is not there for the good of the Islamic people, but rather is serving its own agenda, and that all of its nice words about the importance and sacredness of life, freedom and so forth are just words betrayed by their own actions.

Just as the US misportray the war on terror as being because "they hate our freedom", bin Laden is playing the equivalent "its really a war on our religion" card.

There is an added benefit to be reaped. All too often in the West (this board being a good case in point), people are lumped together if they support the same goals. Those who said that invading Afghanistan was the wrong thing to do were obviously Al Qaeda supporters, because Al Qaeda obviously wanted the same thing. Opposing the invasion of Iraq was supporting Saddam. How long before supporting the withdrawal from Iraq becomes support of bin Laden, because it is what he allegedly wants?

We can pontificate about how we won't let this sway us, but consider that this tape, upon its release, basically grabbed the headlines. If its so unimportant to us, then why has everything else taken second place to it? If we put no weight behind the words of bin Laden, why are we so fixated upon them?

Personally, I believe bin Laden wants the US to remain in Iraq. The chaos that they are engendering by their mere presence plays into his hands far more than it does the US'. But by offering them peace to leave, he has played to his local crowd with impeccable timing, whilst simultaneously stirring the pot a bit in the Western media, potentially weakening the case to pull out ("we can't do that...its what bin Laden wants!!! We have to stay - the final push - he's running scared").

TerrorFirmer

More then a year of complete lack of communication from Bin Laden means that whilst people know he's still there, they can be lulled into a fragile sense of security....sure he's around, but we haven't heard from him and our boys are doing a great job in Iraq.

Even without any actual acts of war Bin Laden can cause widespread panic and fear through simple terror propoganda.

Although I thought the truce thing was a tad odd. It could be it was offered in the spirit of knowing it would never lead anywhere. In that sense the Iraqi people can see in technical terms America could reach a compromise but refused to do so outright.

bonkey

MobileInfantry wrote:

but we haven't heard from him and our boys are doing a great job in Iraq.

The Irish have troops in Iraq????

As for the "great job" ... I think thats a matter of perspective.

As a matter of interest, does anyone know if the road to Baghdad airport is secure yet?

jc

TerrorFirmer

bonkey wrote:

The Irish have troops in Iraq????

As for the "great job" ... I think thats a matter of perspective.

As a matter of interest, does anyone know if the road to Baghdad airport is secure yet?

jc

You know what I meant, from the perspective of the American Populance

Orizio

BigArnie wrote:

It's all a load of old nonsense really. The Americans deserve Bin Laden and vice versa. I hope they live happily ever after bombing the crap out of each other and, with any luck, leave the rest of us in relative peace.

Its not as simple as that.Its important that things work out in Iraq and that the ME is democratized and liberalized-unless you wish to see even greater chaos inside and outside of the EU.Simply allowing the EU to fall into a policy of isolation is not going to help anybody.

gandalf

bonkey wrote:

As a matter of interest, does anyone know if the road to Baghdad airport is secure yet?

jc

It is if you drive really fast !!!!!

whiskeyman

gandalf wrote:

It is if you drive really fast !!!!!

That's why it's called Route Irish (seriously).... no-one observes the speed limit

breandan

Davei141 wrote:

Oul Osamo always pops up when bushes approval ratings fall, i wouldnt be suprised if that tape was 2 years old.

In the tape he makes reference to Bush's comments on bombing the Al Jazerra offices which means that the tape must have been made after November 22nd 2005 as thats when Bush's comments were made public.

Victor

Well I suppose it took the elction results off the headlines.

lili

whiskeyman wrote:

the CIA have tonight authenticated the tape.
Does anyone else feel very dubious about this?

me, i'm very dubious about this.
maybe george bush need to dope the fear feelings of americans? we know all what is the best way to unite a nation.

Pazaz 21

I mean come on !

What have al-quaeda done lately ? Not much.

I think Bush and the FOX News Network are doing more harm promoting terror then Osama ever could.

We are supposed to believe that al-quaeda are this huge, international terrorist organisation, like something out of a james bond movie, and that they could topple any government at any moment.

I don't think so !