Is United vs Liverpool still the big game in the Prem?

MonkeyTennis

When I was a lad Man Utd werent doing hugely well, Liverpool were beating all around them. Still, when United and Liverpool played each other, it was something special. I suppose its about history and the huge support both teams had. Then in the 90s United were the team and Liverpool faded. But still it was a big game. Towards the late 90s and early 2000 Arsenal took the mantle and the best team in the land became a 2 horse race and people said that it was Arsenal vs United, THAT was the biggest game in England.

Then Chelsea stepped up to the plate with big bucks and big egos and stroll to the Premiership title but no-one gets to be the big gun on the block after one title in 50 years.
So with Sunday in mind is United Vs Liverpool still THE glory tie or is it just another game?

Lemlin

MonkeyTennis wrote:

When I was a lad Man Utd werent doing hugely well, Liverpool were beating all around them. Still, when United and Liverpool played each other, it was something special. I suppose its about history and the huge support both teams had. Then in the 90s United were the team and Liverpool faded. But still it was a big game. Towards the late 90s and early 2000 Arsenal took the mantle and the best team in the land became a 2 horse race and people said that it was Arsenal vs United, THAT was the biggest game in England.

Then Chelsea stepped up to the plate with big bucks and big egos and stroll to the Premiership title but no-one gets to be the big gun on the block after one title in 50 years.
So with Sunday in mind is United Vs Liverpool still THE glory tie or is it just another game?

Nope, its the battle for second this season. It mightn't be even that next season though - unless Sir Alex buys some midfielders.

Looks like the big game from now on may well be Liverpool vs. Chelsea. They're building up a strong dislike for each other with the Carling Cup final and Champions League games last year just some examples.

cregser

As a Liverpool fan, I find the Chelsea game to be THE glory tie - Chelsea loosing is a rare event these days after all. The ManU games come second. However, I still feel more raw when ManU beat us than when Chelsea do.

MonkeyTennis

Im NOT really talking about points or title hopes. When I mean 'big' I guess Im talking about excitement and something magical when these teams face each other.

jesus_thats_gre

It still does it for as its a fair fight.. Chelsea versus anyone just isn't a fair fight..

fade2black

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

It still does it for as its a fair fight.. Chelsea versus anyone just isn't a fair fight..

Does that include when they played Man U at Old Trafford this season?

wardie

I can see utd raising it for this game like they did against chelsea. Still they are a team in serious decline and liverpool will finish ahead of them this year.

Wont be a high scoring game unless utd nick an early goal and make liverpool have a go at them.

cregser

MonkeyTennis wrote:

Im really talking about points or title hopes. When I mean 'big' I guess Im talking about excitement and something magical when these teams face each other.

Well if you don't even know what you mean...

'Big': The ManU-Liverpool tie has genuine history behind it. Untied and Ferguson built their success on their resentment of Liverpool's, and Liverpool resent them for it. You've got the two most historical, successfull english teams battling it out ala old firm.

Title hopes: Are the bookies still taking bets this year?

MonkeyTennis

oops sorry edited that post..I meant: is the game something special even to those who might not necessarily support those teams?

Chucky the tree

Its still is for me, but a huge reason for that is the banter with man united supporters. Since most people in ireland are man u or liverpool fans its a huge rivarly.

Knowing the abuse you get if your team loses, or how much enjoyment you will get from bragging if they win is always a big reason why i look forward to the match.

Where as with chelsea, they arent many chelsea fans in ireland yet, so i wouldnt get that banter vibe. Personnally i dont see the Everton match as a big one, cause i am not from there so am not surrounded by the rivarly, but i certainly understand it.

rondeco

cregser wrote:

Well if you don't even know what you mean...

'Big': The ManU-Liverpool tie has genuine history behind it. Untied and Ferguson built their success on their resentment of Liverpool's, and Liverpool resent them for it. You've got the two most historical, successfull english teams battling it out ala old firm.

QUOTE] spot on.

There are no other teams that can match the history of both clubs. None come near. Chelsea are a non-entity when it comes to prestige, class and pedigree. Both utd and Liverpool ooze all the above. That is why there is such rivalry. It is the biggest game of the season. Bar none. Ferguson was asked what his greatest achievement was in football and he replied "Knocking Liverpool off their f*cking perch". That is just a measure of what it means to be a 'pool or utd supporter.
Every time a new team comes to the fore, it creates rivalry but this dies down. Look at Blackburn and Newcastle. They had huge games because they were title chasing at some stage. But now there would be no mention of the 'rivalry' if they were to play utd or pool. If both liverpool and utd were to be relegated, It would still be the biggest game of the season. My only regret is that it was Milan in Istanbul and not utd. That could never be topped!

mike65

Its still the big one (twice a year) its just a pity the actual games often turn out to be pretty poor affairs. Hopefully with Liverpool now firing on all cylinders and Man Utd looking a bit thin in some important positons we'll have both an open game and the right result!

Mike.

jank

Hell yea it is. Just ask any REAL fan of either team. They would rather to beat each other then ANY other team in the League.

Utd always had Liverpool as a rival as well as Leeds and Man City in there. Arsenal may have a hate factor in recent times for about 15 years maybe but for the old gaurd Liverpool is the Enemy.

Liverpool had Everton as the derby but Utd were always their big rivals. Strangely Liverpool dont have many other rivals, even Arsenal and Chelsea have surprisingly good relations with them.

Chelsea are of course the team of the moment but that will pass and the Old Gaurd will come to the fore.

The North, especially the North west of England was reagarded as the Centre of English football in the previous Decades. Its not surprising that there are 7 european cups shared among them.

The powerhouse of english football maybe shifting to London (Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs) But until these teams started winning on the european front then "The Reds Vs The Reds Devils" will always be the "El Clasico" of england.

Im looking forward to the game. I predict a 1-2 win for the pool.

Jivin Turkey

jank wrote:

Hell yea it is. Just ask any REAL fan of either team. They would rather to beat each other then ANY other team in the League.

Utd always had Liverpool as a rival as well as Leeds and Man City in there. Arsenal may have a hate factor in recent times for about 15 years maybe but for the old gaurd Liverpool is the Enemy.

Liverpool had Everton as the derby but Utd were always their big rivals. Strangely Liverpool dont have many other rivals, even Arsenal and Chelsea have surprisingly good relations with them.

Chelsea are of course the team of the moment but that will pass and the Old Gaurd will come to the fore.

The North, especially the North west of England was reagarded as the Centre of English football in the previous Decades. Its not surprising that there are 7 european cups shared among them.

The powerhouse of english football maybe shifting to London (Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs) But until these teams started winning on the european front then "The Reds Vs The Reds Devils" will always be the "El Clasico" of england.

Im looking forward to the game. I predict a 1-2 win for the pool.

I agree with that.

I have though enjoyed the Arsenal United rivalry of recent times however. Always a lot of incident and hatred, some cracking games too, even before Wengers time at the Gunners.

Liverpool VS ManU though for me is the most eagerly awaited game of the season, particularly seeing as Liverpool have a good record in recent years!

county

ask anyone from manchester or liverpool,this is the game they look for first in the new fixtures list and look forward to.as for the op`s question,it is the (big)game to fans from both citys

jesus_thats_gre

fade2black wrote:

Does that include when they played Man U at Old Trafford this season?

I was gonna finish off my post by saying that beating Chelsea is generally a once off and impossible to do consistently at the moment..

jesus_thats_gre

jank wrote:

Hell yea it is. Just ask any REAL fan of either team. They would rather to beat each other then ANY other team in the League.

This is agree with.. Even when United were winning the league every season, Liverpool beating them a few times more than made up for it.. Even though Liverpool were 2nd and 3rd best throughout the whole period..

Note to the person who thought beating Chelsea last season was some sort of accomplishment - denial!!

fade2black

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

I was gonna finish off my post by saying that beating Chelsea is generally a once off and impossible to do consistently at the moment..

Well that's probably true. United can't do anything consistently at the moment.

HashSlinging

sure beating liverpool for man u used to be as good as winning the league, and vice-versa, its great! some people take it too seriously.. I've witnessed two massive pub brawls in bray over the last couple of years. facckinn classic!

Chelsea wont be around forever, your man could be arrested at anytime for the crap he's been upto. :v: :v: :v: so I dont hold meeting them in high regard at all.

LostinBlanch

Cregser nice pic.

But now I'm going to quote an ex Liverpool and City player. See what you think, I feel he has hit the nail on the head and that most of the resentment has come from the Scousers and this might explain why:

"even though Liverpool were winning everything they never had the aura of Manchester United. From the babes through to present day they have always been the biggest and most glamourous club".

Who said that?

I'll give you a clue he's been on tv recently

el rabitos

"even though Liverpool were winning everything they never had the aura of Manchester United. From the babes through to present day they have always been the biggest and most glamourous club".

Who said that?

who cares who said it. opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, including ex liverpool players.

i doubt 99.9% of anyone associated with liverpool in any significant way dont regard old trafford as the "theatre of dreams"

with the league title and the european champions cup the most prestigious in the world and held in highest regard amonst players, would than not make Anfield the theatre of dreams? what with there being more european cups and league championships there?

^ thats my thoughts on the matter and most liverpool fans i know.

on the subject of the thread, COURSE its the biggest rivalry

why? - because as liverpool fans we hate you

Jimi-Spandex

el rabitos wrote:

on the subject of the thread, COURSE its the biggest rivalry

why? - because as liverpool fans we hate you

The feeling is mutual, believe me.

The banter with pool fans is always good, and it will leave me with an ulcer-like feeling for a few weeks if we lose.


That said, for the past 7/8 years where liverpool haven't been the best the arsenal games have been huge for me. There haven't been and probably won't be many games that bring me the utter devastation of Arse winning the league at Old Trafford or the unbridled joy of 99's cup semi-final replay.

The Muppet

It's the Biggest game of the Season for me, always has been. Following the defeat in the derby lasy week I can not contemplate a loss to Liverpool just 8 days later.

Hopefully this game will live up to expectations , the gap between the teams has narrowed so it should be a good game. United of old always bounced back with a good performance after a loss, I'm hoping the current squad still has some of that spirit. Come Sunday we'll know.

gracehopper

It's the biggest game in the league calendar. Theres a massive rivalry between clubs. It makes best friends fall out, fathers fight with sons, milkmen not deliver milk, Mothers refuse to cook dinner. Banter between fans is a sort of friendly hatred. United fans dont like Liverpool fans because they are the more successful club as far as trophies go and Liverpool fans hate United fans because they know United have always had more style and class and individual ability in their teams through the years. They've always had a Cantona or a Best or a Rooney and Liverpool while they were very successful were always a very compact team that could keep possession for long periods of a game. They had some great technical players and still do but they are much like Chelsea in that their main strength lies in their defence. United on the otherhand have a terrible defence and probably one of the best frontlines around. So I reckon Sunday will be decent enough. United have to get it together again after last week but i'd say Liverpool will be resilient. I'm hoping for a United win but with the current midfield they've been having trouble breaking teams down at OT and i expect they will find it hard to break down liverpool again. So my prediction is 4-0 with Darren Fletcher to run the show(only joking). Nah i reckon it'll be close; 1-0 or 2-1 to United of course!!

iregk

Well as a Chelsea fan (since the 80's thank you not a bandwaggon man) I look at what games do I want to see that Chelsea are not involved in.

To have a rivalry/big game there really has to be two things in the melting pot:
1) big sucessful teams involved
2) pure hatred for each other.

Now at the moment Chelsea don't really have a pure hatred for anyone. As close as it gets is Fulham but even thats a friendly enough derby. When it comes to United and Liverpool I think there is a healthy and growing respect between them and us.

Liverpool and United have always hated each other but for me this was not a big game in the past few years because well, Liverpool were pants and there was nothing at stake. Now its different this is a match that will see if Liverpool are over taking United and so has great meaning so I'm dying to see it.

United and Arsenal has been "The Game" of the past few years but this year it has lost a lot of edge now that Pat and Roy are not longer in the fold.

So is Liverpool -v- United "The Big Game". Kind of, but it doesn't have the same prestige it used to mainly due to the fact that there are more big games around now than there used to be. Chelsea against United/Liverpool/Arse are big games because we are the champions and at the moment the big team in England. Now I'm not stupid enough to think it will last forever, like all teams we will have our moment in the limelight and then be overtaken. Weather thats next year or in 10 years who knows but the games against the Champions are always classed as Big games.

redspider

Its a big game, but the league games for me are not the big games for either club. For Liverpool last season it would have been their last 5 games in the CL against Juventus (2x), Chelsea (2x) and the biggest game, the final against AC Milano.

The problem with the league is that these games do not decide placings usually, its normally the 32 other games against the lessor teams which will determine a club's position.

Having said all that, I've always relished the Liverpool Man U games and the rivalry has become more intense ever since that famous 1977 FA Cup final. For fans in Ireland too, where about 70% of football followers follow either Liverpool or Man U, these games are of course big. However, fans here dont go overboard in terms of support, you wont see 100's of people walking around town with either Liverpool or Man U shirts on. Its just an ordinary league game. Whereas, if it was an FA Cup final, you would probably see a few shirts, and shirt wearing is a sign of interest level and the sign whether its a big game or not.

Ferguson will be spoiling for a win. He's very determined to get 2nd this year and has to really, as Man U are out of the CL, so needs some for of deterministic saving grace, as you can never tell what will happen in the cups. Benitez will be aiming for a draw I expect but that does not mean a walled defense. Far from it and Gerrard will be up for it.

It should be a good game for neutrals and I expect a good tempo. This is unlike for example games such as Chelsea and Arsenal where Arsenal usually under-perform against the big teams.

redspider

Thanx 4 The Fish

Man United are so hated at liverpool that we even have a song about it on the KOP (please do not challenge my use of the word we). There are only three teams mentioned, Notts, Forest, Everton and Man U and it is sung at every game home or away, regardless of the oppo.

I was at the Home game earlier in the season and while there was n goals there was plenty of incident and I did not go home disappointed with the result. At least we did not lose. If we only got a draw this week I would be disappointed, liverpool have been playing some superb football of late and I would like to see them turn it on on Sunday, with Xabi banging the ball about the place and Steve Making an impact, Luis is missing which I think is a big loss for us, he loses the ball a bit but there is often an end product from him and when he turns it on he can really play.

As for Man Us threat, if the two Rs can get it together up front we could be in trouble, both are qualit players and all I can hope for is that Sami is marking Ruud rather than Rooney who I feel will expoese his lack of pace.

BolBill

Its easily the biggest game on the calender, I hate watching it because of the bragging rights at stake. I'm a Real Red so I follow the Champions of Europe (x5, yeah x 5 !!!) and like nothing more than seeing Man U lose no matter who they are playing (except Millwall a few years back when Dennis (Not so) Wise was a disgrace). Fergie needs a win after last weeks derby, Rafa will settle for a draw and may play 5 across the middle. Won't see the game as I've a prior engagement, kinda glad really because me nerves are gone usually

Verdict 1-1 or 1-0 to Man U.

PiE

Yea, despite it being a big let down more often than not, I still sweat over this game more than any other. Probably due to the fact that I know more Utd fans than I do Arsenal, Chelsea etc. And same would go for the Utd fans, so the prospect of being on the recieving end of taunts is greatly increased.

iregk wrote:

When it comes to United and Liverpool I think there is a healthy and growing respect between them and us.

I personally wouldn't call it respect.

~Rebel~

To add in my opinion, yeah this is the big game for me. For the homeleg i was in Dubrovnik, after arriving the day before. First thing I did was find a pub that definately would show the match. Even had to compromise with the girlfriend that she could shop her heart out in exchange for me sucking all the romance out of the holiday.

Basically its the one i wait for. Will be sick for days if pool lose and over the moon if they win. As everyone else said the banter with the opposing fans is always great cause everyone knows a liverpool or united fan. Cant wait for sunday anyway.

P.s. Pool should've put a clause in Murphys contract when he left that we get him back for ManU games!

Gegerty

Darn tootin'! This season more than ever. It's the fight for second place and the first time in a long long time that liverpool have threatened to finish ahead of united. Not to mention I'm sick of Liverpool fans talking about united being on a downward spiral....eh yea 2nd to Chelsea and the best season we've had in years... and giving the pool a good old fashioned battering Rooney and Ruud style will sort that argument out.

Lets hope liverpool don't put out their 11 man defence and kill the game

LostinBlanch

el rabitos wrote:

opinions are like assholes, everyone has one

As you have so eloquently shown

Gracehopper has it down to a tee with the differences between the two teams. Of course United always being a more cavalier side never relied on the back pass. Is it any conincidence that Liverpool faded away when the back pass rule came into being? That should get some more debate going

Thanx 4 the fish, you have songs about us, we have songs about you, kind of emphasises the point the OP was trying to make. At least you've stopped singing the Munich song, now if only your lot could have kept quiet during George's minutes silence eh?

I hope you enjoy the game (but not the result).

spockety

Gegerty wrote:

Not to mention I'm sick of Liverpool fans talking about united being on a downward spiral....eh yea 2nd to Chelsea and the best season we've had in years...

Haha.. you're only minding 2nd spot until we get our 2 games in hand out of the way

beat Utd on Sunday, and win the two games in hand, you're looking at what, an 8 point gap between 2nd and 3rd?

Thanx 4 The Fish

LostinBlanch wrote:

Thanx 4 the fish, you have songs about us, we have songs about you, kind of emphasises the point the OP was trying to make. At least you've stopped singing the Munich song, now if only your lot could have kept quiet during George's minutes silence eh?

Yeah we are a bit more picky about who we respect and an alcoholic wifebeater (fact) is not for me. Great footballer but flawed. If liverpool fans could go back and undo it I am sure that they wouldn't and why should they. But that is obviously not the thread for this, was all discussed before and wasn't v friendly then..

gegerty wrote:

It's the fight for second place and the first time in a long long time that liverpool have threatened to finish ahead of united

Short memory you have there, what would you consider a long long time ? 4 years ? 2001/2002 season, liverpool beat United 1-0 at old trafford and went on to come second ahead of United.

Gegerty

LostinBlanch wrote:

now if only your lot could have kept quiet during George's minutes silence eh?

Kinda sums them up doesn't it?

Gegerty

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Short memory you have there, what would you consider a long long time ? 4 years ?

eh yea I would consider 4 years a long time actually.

p.pete

spockety wrote:

beat Utd on Sunday, and win the two games in hand, you're looking at what, an 8 point gap between 2nd and 3rd?

Lol, then we could start talking about a tier of teams below liverpool: Arsenal; Spurs; United etc.

That's the kind of talk that'll get thrown back at us however

There's a lot of people saying United are on a downward spiral, why are people saying that it's Liverpool who are saying it? Just read Cantona's recent statement for example, he's not a Liverpool fan. I agree however that under most circumstances both Liverpool and United are having an excellent season. Doesn't count for much though when there's someone so comfortably ahead...

p.pete

Gegerty wrote:

eh yea I would consider 4 years a long time actually.

So it's a long time since either team have won the league?

spockety

I don't think they're as comfortable as people think.

To add to what I said earlier, if Liverpool beat Utd, and win 2 games in hand, the gap to Chelsea becomes 11 points with 15 games yet to play, including one against Chelsea. Manage to beat Chelsea at the bridge, and the gap becomes 8 points..

You just never know.

But getting back on topic.. Liverpool VS Man Utd is probably the biggest match in the world. It's probably not even a matter of opinion, check out the TV ratings for it compared to any other match and I think you'll find advertising agencies have a much easier time selling half time ads for that match than for any other on the planet.

J.

iregk

Gegerty wrote:

Kinda sums them up doesn't it?

Lets not get into this. Thats for a whole other thread and is an argument that we should but to bed before it even kicks off.

iregk

spockety wrote:

But getting back on topic.. Liverpool VS Man Utd is probably the biggest match in the world. It's probably not even a matter of opinion, check out the TV ratings for it compared to any other match and I think you'll find advertising agencies have a much easier time selling half time ads for that match than for any other on the planet.
J.

Believe it or not, according to Deloitte and Touce not so long ago. Most watched match in premiership history happened this season. Who was it?
Chelsea? Arsenal? United?

No no and no. Man City -v- Fulham!!! Apparently 60million or so in China alone tuned into that game!

Gegerty

p.pete wrote:

Doesn't count for much though when there's someone so comfortably ahead...

Yea so we'll get our pleasures by beating Chelsea and Liverpool

Considering the major transition united are going thru both on the field and in the board room I can't believe anyone can criticise them. It's united bashing and as for cantona's comments, well he really is pointing out the obvious there. What united need new players? Really? No s*it!!

p.pete

Gegerty wrote:

Yea so we'll get our pleasures by beating Chelsea and Liverpool

Considering the major transition united are going thru both on the field and in the board room I can't believe anyone can criticise them. It's united bashing and as for cantona's comments, well he really is pointing out the obvious there. What united need new players? Really? No s*it!!

What transition in the boardroom? There's a new owner and staff on the board, it's over with already, ye have to move on from here....
The manager is unchanged and he has backing from the board, so nothing has changed there...
New players have already been brought in during the transfer window, a new midfield is needed though...

Gegerty

p.pete wrote:

What transition in the boardroom? There's a new owner and staff on the board, it's over with already, ye have to move on from here....
The manager is unchanged and he has backing from the board, so nothing has changed there...
New players have already been brought in during the transfer window, a new midfield is needed though...

I agree with you totally, united fans certainly are moving on and 2nd place will be ours at the end of the season....hopefully a domestic cup or 2 on top of that

Thanx 4 The Fish

If you agree and say that united fans are moving on then why did you bring it up in the first place ? You have obvioulsy not moved on, looking for quarter when none was needed. If you think that change at a club is bad just have a pop around to Anfield or Stamford bridge and have a look at the trophy cabinet.

mayordenis

Gegerty wrote:

I agree with you totally, united fans certainly are moving on and 2nd place will be ours at the end of the season....hopefully a domestic cup or 2 on top of that

i would be shocked if you win anything,
maybe the carling cup and while i think any silverware is worth achieving i will remind every utd fan of their bitterness when we were lifting that cup and the were calling it the worthnothing cup,
utd fans have no decency.
I think mass cullings are in order.

growler

iregk wrote:

.

Now at the moment Chelsea don't really have a pure hatred for anyone. As close as it gets is Fulham but even thats a friendly enough derby. When it comes to United and Liverpool I think there is a healthy and growing respect between them and us.
.

Chelsea have a long standing, well established and deeply felt hatred for Spurs, Leeds, West Ham, a growing hatred for Liverpool and genuine distaste for all things Arsenal.

Re. Pool v Man U being a big game, of couse this is going to be a big game for supporters of both teams (particularly those with longer memeories) but I don't think that the general football watching public view it in the same manner, because (a)Man Usa aren't the team they used to be, no longer a giant to be killed really and (b) it's not going to be a title decider or even have any impact on the eventual winner. A big game for non involved fans should have something at stake (or at the very least promise a feast of glorious footballing skills), I don't think this tie offers either (consistently) anymore.

iregk

growler wrote:

Chelsea have a long standing, well established and deeply felt hatred for Spurs, Leeds, West Ham, a growing hatred for Liverpool and genuine distaste for all things Arsenal.

Doesn't everyone hate spurs, leeds and west ham though? They are the standard clubs that everyone hates.

Necronomicon

I think it will always be 'the' game. Even in recent years when the two haven't always been big rivals in a positional sense, there's always been that flare. The rivalry has never gone away. This season, you could argue, has something even more to it because the two are in direct competition for runner's up spot in the Premiership.

p.pete

Gegerty wrote:

I agree with you totally, united fans certainly are moving on and 2nd place will be ours at the end of the season....hopefully a domestic cup or 2 on top of that

I like your chipper, upbeat attitude

p.pete

mayordenis wrote:

utd fans have no decency.
I think mass cullings are in order.

:eek:
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