Warning re xbox 360 home media center features

Gizzard

So I get a xbox 360 primaraly to watch downloaded multimedia, music movies etc, and for games, which are expensive and crap at the moment.

So Im thinking its wireless and can play music and movies over the network, WRONG you can only watch movies streamed from Windows media center OS NOT XP, it will not read from XP for some reason, this is really lame.

Everyone probably already knows this already but for those who dont and are thinking of buying xbox360 as a media center dont bother you cant record to HD you cant play downloaded stuff (excepot stuff from Live).

to be honest Xbox 1 moded is a much better media center then xobx 2.

Ciaran500

Do some research before shelling out €400 for something.

Attol

Just to let you know that if you want to watch downloaded media on your PC you could get an s-video cable for like €5 off eBay that would connect your PC to your TV and use it as a 2nd monitor.

GrumPy

lol, yeah man do research, the xbox360 clearly states what it can, an cannot do.

monument

For film, yes, but you do NOT need Windows Media Center to stream music - get Windows Media Connect from Microsoft's site.

The 360 is full of DRM ****. Lets hope Sony makes the media part of the PS3 like what it did with the PSP. But trying to push Blu-Ray maybe the film playback will be out of the question.

Screaming Monkey

....This is one of my pet hates with the xbox360, the so called "media capabilities" its a complete con, you can get a 50 euro dvd player which will do more, e.g. play DivX movies and does'nt make as much noise.

Microsoft and their friends are pushing the xbox360 as a media device and a games console, trying to get non-game players to buy into it, especially women, traditionally non-gamer types, the bbc's money programme discussed this, and show some interesting focus groups and their results http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4384838.stm

The xbox360 is a games console pure and simple, and when we start getting some decent games in march, then all of this sillyness will be forgotten.

Kristok

hey if it annoys you that much ill give you €200 for it

Wouldnt worry about it im sure someone is going to hack the 360 to bits soon enough and youll be able to play everything from any networked machine.

Gizzard

Ciaran500 wrote:

Do some research before shelling out €400 for something.

I got a japanese 360 for free, so I gues I should not complain, its still lame though

shabbyroad

Yes you shouldn't complain and no it's not "lame"

Anyone who thinks that Sony isn't going to have a completely propietary set of protocols for the PS3 (if it ever appears... 2007 anyone ?) is kidding themselves.

I'll raise your 50euro DVD player with DivX playback by all the Xbox Live functionality & marketplace. I've had a blast racing against other ****e driveres on PGR3. Let me see a DVD player do that. Let me see the vapourware PS3 do that....

monument

Yes, DRM is a god sent. We love it, and we should.

The PS3 is apparently going to have slots for Memory Sticks and other memory cards, so if anything (music, film, whatever) is playable from one of those it will automatically be better then the 360 just because you wont need an external player/storage powered up and set to USB just to play music with out riping a CD for the second time.

And if Sony are going to allow you to play music from a Memory Stick, why not allow playability on the apparent hard drive which will use the planned HD slot?

The workings of the 360 media features are beyond logic from the point of view of a consumer who owns all of his music. Why is it that I can stream music from a device that can play non-DRM formats, but I cannot save them?

Matt Simis

monument wrote:

Yes, DRM is a god sent. We love it, and we should.
The workings of the 360 media features are beyond logic from the point of view of a consumer who owns all of his music. Why is it that I can stream music from a device that can play non-DRM formats, but I cannot save them?

Dont bitch at MS for that, they are obligated by the music industry (lead by your vaunted Sony) to implement DRM protections. I would suspect they dont allow you to "save" (ie copy) music as its streamed as you would then have multiple copies of music around the place, which shock horror is not allowed by the T&Cs of the music labels.

PS3 may do more or less, but either way it must be cushy being the developer of the HW as well as the main proponent of the most invasive DRM, Regional Protection and Copy Prevention technologies on the planet. They get to pick how to implement liberties afforded the consumer.

MS have no interest in restricting you, infact they actively lobby for more consumer liberties and have publically stated so time and again.


Matt

Gizzard

shabbyroad wrote:

Yes you shouldn't complain and no it's not "lame"

Anyone who thinks that Sony isn't going to have a completely propietary set of protocols for the PS3 (if it ever appears... 2007 anyone ?) is kidding themselves.

I'll raise your 50euro DVD player with DivX playback by all the Xbox Live functionality & marketplace. I've had a blast racing against other ****e driveres on PGR3. Let me see a DVD player do that. Let me see the vapourware PS3 do that....

2007 what are you talking about?, however I do agree that the PSP poor video support does not bode well for proper Divx mulit video format support from PS3

monument

Matt Simis wrote:

Dont bitch at MS for that, they are obligated by the music industry

Obligated? Exactly how?

Matt Simis wrote:

lead by your vaunted Sony

Sorry? What’s that supposed to mean? I’m only speculating on ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ for the PS3, and talking about ‘should haves’ for the 360, based on what the 360 has, what the PSP has and the what’s planned for the PS3 (Memory Card readers).

The 360 is actually currently my favourite console in regards to interface hardware and software – and the Xbox was… it just happens the PS2 has a wider range of games.

As for Sony Music’s recent sicking behaviour in the US, if they had continued that crap I wouldn’t have been buying any Sony CDs.

Could I please ask you to be carefull with such strong words such as 'vaunted'. Thank you.

Matt Simis wrote:

I would suspect they dont allow you to "save" (ie copy) music as its streamed as you would then have multiple copies of music around the place, which shock horror is not allowed by the T&Cs of the music labels.

According to IMRO you’re not allowed to copy music from CD to a PC or Ipod etc, so by allowing you to even rip music to the 360 is allowing users to do what the music industry says is illegal.

Matt Simis wrote:

They get to pick how to implement liberties afforded the consumer….

MS have no interest in restricting you, infact they actively lobby for more consumer liberties and have publically stated so time and again.

In the first line above ‘they’ could also mean MS, as MS have implementing the crazy DRM on their hardware.

MS and many companies, including Sony say many things. When they say one thing and implement things like the over kill with DRM on the 360 I start to think they’re talking rubbish.

Matt Simis

I wouldnt consider "vaunted" a strong word, but thats neither here nor there.

Im talking from experience, Ive been at several events organised by MS to educate the Music industry (Sony and EMI etc attended) on how DRM fully alleviates their "concerns" over piracy they like to blame for everything. Ive been at meetings and listened to various content holders express concern and worry that their are too many freedoms etc (obviously they didnt use that terminology) proving too tempting to the consumer. This is how MS are "obligated", they know they cant sell the platform of the future without content that the MPAA, RIAA etc control, and content owners wont embrace said platform without rock solid protection (DRM) in place. Its a necessary evil, but not ones of MS's liking.

Its many shades of grey and most of it is "appearing" to limit copying, as you say, they already cross some boundries.
This has all been backed up by public statements and demo days by MS and other IT industry leaders. I wouldnt group "IT" companies like Intel and MS with "CE" companys like Sony etc, they have in many ways conflicting views of the future.


Matt

shuushh

if you want a media centre just buy a divx player that has a hd and your sorted

monument

Matt Simis wrote:

I wouldnt consider "vaunted" a strong word, but thats neither here nor there.

Im talking from experience, Ive been at several events organised by MS to educate the Music industry (Sony and EMI etc attended) on how DRM fully alleviates their "concerns" over piracy they like to blame for everything. Ive been at meetings and listened to various content holders express concern and worry that their are too many freedoms etc (obviously they didnt use that terminology) proving too tempting to the consumer. This is how MS are "obligated", they know they cant sell the platform of the future without content that the MPAA, RIAA etc control, and content owners wont embrace said platform without rock solid protection (DRM) in place. Its a necessary evil, but not ones of MS's liking.

Its many shades of grey and most of it is "appearing" to limit copying, as you say, they already cross some boundries.
This has all been backed up by public statements and demo days by MS and other IT industry leaders. I wouldnt group "IT" companies like Intel and MS with "CE" companys like Sony etc, they have in many ways conflicting views of the future.

Vaunted, “praised frequently in a way that is considered to be more than acceptable or reasonable” - cambridge.org.

I don’t see what “content that the MPAA, RIAA etc control” has to do with the Xbox/360. What are they going to do disable their CDs, DVDs etc from working on the consoles?

And MS’s new OS couldn’t go as far as only allowing DRM formats. Could it? Actually, I wouldn’t really be surprised. But they would be shooting them selves in the foot, well it’d be more like shooting ones self in the balls.

Matt Simis

monument wrote:

..

I don’t see what “content that the MPAA, RIAA etc control” has to do with the Xbox/360. What are they going to do disable their CDs, DVDs etc from working on the consoles?

And MS’s new OS couldn’t go as far as only allowing DRM formats. Could it? Actually, I wouldn’t really be surprised. But they would be shooting them selves in the foot, well it’d be more like shooting ones self in the balls.

On your first point you are taking everything too literally. Its all about being friends and accommodating. No one would outright "disable" anything, but are far more likely to support alternative platforms and initiatives when the opportunity arrises.

Your second point is idle speculation on an largely unrelated future PC OS, which you are free to but for the most irrelevant. Im just voicing facts which I was privvy to that you may not have been, that show the hidden side of the MS-Content Holders-DRM arrangement.


Matt

monument

That’s my point, they have outright disabled copying to the 360’s main storage from other storage devices besides audio CDs, while at the same time they allow non-DRM formats to be played from other storage devices. What could be the difference for the music industry, it still can play pirate MP3s?

As far as I can see it’s no more then paying lip service at the user’s expense… or…

1) Could, arguably, the only reason they done so is to stop users from copying files to the hd, to some-how make the console harder to hack? (I’m actualy asking this, as I’m unsure of the mechanics involved)

and/or

2) They don’t want any console turning into even a half-decent home digital media player because it’d hurt sales of Windows XP Media Centre Edition?

Does the above speculation have a higher probability of being true/partly true?

Matt Simis

Funny you should mention it, I actually think its a combination of the two.

Certainly there is some evidence for point two. At the MS "Future home", all decked out with the latest Windows Media tech, they had a WMCE PC as the center entertainment device, with dual TV tuners. They had several other PCs as well as the 360 connected via WiFi. The demo showed an impressive recording on one PC, watching Live TV on the 360 and also a live feed on the main TV (thanks to the multiple inputs). It was an really nice demo and underlines the key concept here, they dont want the most limited device (the console) being the main hub.

So yes, it would hurt sales, but would also greatly undermine the powerful yet simple concept MS are trying to sell. At the end of the day, without more HW, the 360 just isnt very good at TV Recording and Rebroadcasting, a PC (WMCE) does it far better for a similar price. Music is basic enough and it does it out of the box (to a degree, but again not acting as the hub).

Not saying Im totally happy with this, as a consumer I would like a few more features in my 360, but thats not the intended role MS seemed to have it destined for... Sony on the other hand dont have any compelling other tech than the PS3 and PS3 derivatives (no doublt hyped as other wonderful Cell products, but at the end of the day glorified PS3s). Perhaps the PS3 will do more on its own, but MS's gamble is the "family" of devices is the future.


Matt

CiaranC

Matt wrote:

MS have no interest in restricting you, infact they actively lobby for more consumer liberties and have publically stated so time and again.

Excuse me while I die laughing

LookingFor

The PS3 is apparently going to have slots for Memory Sticks and other memory cards, so if anything (music, film, whatever) is playable from one of those it will automatically be better then the 360 just because you wont need an external player/storage powered up and set to USB just to play music with out riping a CD for the second time.

It supports Memory Sticks, Compact Flash and SD cards. I think media playback from those formats is a given, but they've suggested also that you'll be able to save game data to all of them too. Not quite confirmed, but was suggested in an interview.

As for the PS3 HDD, I'm not sure if they'll let you transfer media from another device on to it. But any media purchased online via PS3 would obviously reside on it or a mem stick/sd card/etc.

However, MS had better hope Sony doesn't make PS3 DLNA compliant, as it could potentially embarass their efforts in terms of media-sharing between devices. They had a demonstration at CES of PSP as a DLNA-compliant device - basically, you had your PSP, and a Sony HDD Recorder (DLNA-compliant) connected to a television. You could use your PSP to browse media on both the HDD recorder and media stored locally on the PSP's mem stick, all in one list - hit play to play it there and then on the PSP screen, regardless of whether the media was on your PSP or the HDD recorder. The HDD recorder acted as a media server, streaming data wirelessly to the PSP, and the PSP as a media renderer. That's all very nice on its own, but they had some neat extra functionality - if you pushed up on the PSP's analog nub, the video would be "thrown" immediately from the PSP to the television, continuing exactly where playback ended on your PSP. Your PSP then acted as a remote for the content on the screen, with playback controls. Push down on the analog nub, and it "dragged" the video back onto the PSP screen. The software doing this was running off a UMD disc at CES, but the booth operators said it could easily be included in a firmware update in the future. One of them also apparently said that PS3 would also be DLNA-compliant, but that's not official (yet, at least). But if that were to be the case you could have your PSP (pending a firmware upgrade), your PS3, your PC (you can get software to do this, free software even, I think) and any other DLNA-compliant device sharing media between them seamlessly.