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Cannabis to remain class C in the UK
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Good first post. I agree with what you say but the goverment believe people are too thick to be able to make these decisions. You can get beer from vending machines on the continent, beer from what i can see is a lot more damaging than a lot of class A drugs. What i would like to know is how Portugal is getting on after they made all drugs legal and are spending there money on helping people who are addicted to drugs rather than trying to ban drugs0
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its a bit like this ....0
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Ubernewb wrote:Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
Amsterdam is one of the scariest places on earth
LOL! Are you stoned
Tunnel vision I see, below is the actual quotemeditraitor wrote:Amsterdam is one of the scariest places on earth if you take a wrong turn(cannabis has no effect on this), dublin is much safer, and there is plenty of drunks in holland too,
And if you ever have the chance to spend some time in amsterdam, not just a couple of nights on a stag you will understand, its a kip, much more violent and intimidating than any part of Ireland-even Limerick
You have more chance of being mugged, stabbed even murdered(three times that of london FFS) in amsterdam,and as a matter of fact between 1997,1998 amsterdam and moscow were the only two cities in europe to have a higher murder rate than BELFAST-yes belfast pre agreement, put that in your pipe and smoke it0 -
The law's on Cannabis don't bother me too much because the stuff we get in this country has so litttle THC in it. Soapbar is a disgraceful substitute for proper smoke and until idiot's stop buying it dealers are going to keep pumping it into out country.
No harm in a casual smoke of decent weed on the weekends.0 -
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meditraitor wrote:put that in your pipe and smoke it
You’re defiantly smoking too many spliffs (or pipes) you’re going paranoid!! You had best not go on holidays anywhere and stick with staying in doors
Have a look at this world murder league table before you plan your next holiday anywhere, Qatar should be safe enough for you… … maybe?
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur0 -
plonk wrote:Good first post. I agree with what you say but the goverment believe people are too thick to be able to make these decisions. You can get beer from vending machines on the continent, beer from what i can see is a lot more damaging than a lot of class A drugs. What i would like to know is how Portugal is getting on after they made all drugs legal and are spending there money on helping people who are addicted to drugs rather than trying to ban drugs
It is no good simply decriminalising drugs because you are still giving importers and dealers business. The supply needs to be regulated in order to stop all this crazy murder. The debate is too often about whether the drugs are harmful or not. That in my view is a side issue, espeically since people take them when illegal. Would they take them more if legal is the only issue here and the evidence does not suggest that people would.
The big issue should be the crime that the black drug trade produces and the burglaries and muggings that the addicts of hard drugs carry out. These druggies do not burgle when they have drugs.
There was a full page almost in the Irish Times about the harmful affects of cannibas, it was interesting and correct, but at the end they made it out to be an argument against legalisation without looking at the real issues (crime).
They best thing we can all do as citizens is buy green-houses grow cannibas ourselfs and give it to stoners. Put the dealers out of business.0 -
UberNewb wrote:You’re defiantly smoking too many spliffs (or pipes) you’re going paranoid!! You had best not go on holidays anywhere and stick with staying in doors
Have a look at this world murder league table before you plan your next holiday anywhere, Qatar should be safe enough for you… … maybe?
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur
After you finish your leaving cert and your mammy lets you travel a bit you will understand what I mean when i say that most places have a feeling attached to them, amsterdams is not very welcoming, were-as if you go up the coast a bit to Haarlem it has all the pleasures of amsterdam with less of the scum!0 -
No chance, I'm not leaving the safety on my bedroom! It's just too dangerous out there! :eek:0
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meditraitor wrote:its a kip, much more violent and intimidating than any part of Ireland-even Limerick0
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Gurgle wrote:small point - In Amsterdam theres big shifty looking characters standing on street corners calling 'speed, charlie, esctasy' as if they were selling lighters on Henry street. The thought crosses my mind that these drugs may lead to more violence than hash.
Indeed, but these drugs are also illegal in the Netherlands and the loosening of narcotics laws(legalising marajuana being the main one) is resulting in these "shifty looking characters" being more in the open than in other european cities which have similiar scum.
This is another factor to take into account when loosening laws on the the supply and possesion of drugs in our society.
Do you really want this carry-on on Dublins streets0 -
meditraitor wrote:Indeed, but these drugs are also illegal in the Netherlands and the loosening of narcotics laws(legalising marajuana being the main one) is resulting in these "shifty looking characters" being more in the open than in other european cities which have similiar scum.
This is another factor to take into account when loosening laws on the the supply and possesion of drugs in our society.
Do you really want this carry-on on Dublins streets
This is unrelated to the legalising of marajuana.
Legalising marajuana isn't loosening a law, its removing a law that was originally based on mis-information.0 -
Gurgle wrote:Em no, the ignoring by police of street vendors selling class A narcotics is the problem.
This is unrelated to the legalising of marajuana.
Legalising marajuana isn't loosening a law, its removing a law that was originally based on mis-information.
Look, the simple fact of the matter is that cannibas can and does cause problems to your health, both physical and mental.
Why legalise this substance and give it a bigger market when it has no positive effect on a mature society!(expecting to be called out on this one:D )
and for the 50th time I dont want to hear the whole "Drink and cigarettes are bad for you so why not legalise dope" argument- rediculous standpoint0 -
meditraitor wrote:Look, the simple fact of the matter is that cannibas can and does cause problems to your health, both physical and mental.
Mental health - unproven.meditraitor wrote:Why legalise this substance and give it a bigger market when it has no positive effect on a mature society!(expecting to be called out on this one:D )
1. Control quality
2. Control availibility
3. Take the profits out of criminals pockets
4. Reduce the nation's dependance on alcohol for social interactionmeditraitor wrote:and for the 50th time I dont want to hear the whole "Drink and cigarettes are bad for you so why not legalise dope" argument- rediculous standpoint
And for the 100th time, what gives you (or Mary Harney for that matter) the right to decide the I can't smoke pot?
Evidence is required, not stories, allegations and propaganda. The evidence that responsible use of pot has a negative impact on society is just not there.0 -
Gurgle wrote:Physical health - well yes, lungs were designed for a mix of about 80% nitrogen / 20% oxygen. Its fairly well established that burning anything and inhaling the smoke is detrimental to the old lungs.
Mental health - unproven.
Legalise it to:
1. Control quality
2. Control availibility
3. Take the profits out of criminals pockets
4. Reduce the nation's dependance on alcohol for social interaction
So thats an arguement you can't refute making it ridiculous.
And for the 100th time, what gives you (or Mary Harney for that matter) the right to decide the I can't smoke pot?
Evidence is required, not stories, allegations and propaganda. The evidence that responsible use of pot has a negative impact on society is just not there.
Your not very well informed boy are you! there is at least 3 threads that have debated this before and I am not willing to get into a pissing contest with some ill informed teenager who hasnt a clue what he is talking about!0 -
meditraitor wrote:Your not very well informed boy are you! there is at least 3 threads that have debated this before and I am not willing to get into a pissing contest with some ill informed teenager who hasnt a clue what he is talking about!
I feel I must point out that this particular ill-informed teenager took an active part in the arguement on more than 3 of the previous threads, of which there have been many*, is 30 years old, spent 5 years of his 20s smoking pot on a daily basis(while at the same time persuing a successful career, continuing part time post-graduate education and raising a family) until deciding that his lungs could do with a break and quit without any mental or physical withdrawal symptoms. And while we're on the subject I am and have always been in extremely good health (mental and physical) and lack the beer-gut that many of my advanced age have built up over the last decade.
*none of which contained any convincing reason for pot to be illegal0 -
Im just going to cut and paste a few bits from previous threads,,, seems as you are either to lazy or stoned to read them.Gurgle wrote:Physical health - well yes, lungs were designed for a mix of about 80% nitrogen / 20% oxygen. Its fairly well established that burning anything and inhaling the smoke is detrimental to the old lungs.
Mental health - unproven..
A recent study by the British Lung Foundation found that smoking three cannabis joints a day caused the same damage as 20 cigarettes because people tend to inhale the smoke for longer to gain the maximum "hit". The medical community is still debating whether cannabis use leads to lung cancer - but it's a fact that cannabis contains more carcinogens (cancer-causing agents) than tobacco
Both good and bad side effects are attributable to a major mind altering drug called delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) which is a psychoactive ingredient found in cannabis. THC mimics the actions of the brain's receptors so interfering with the brain's ability to function normally.
http://www.drug-abuse-us.ru.com/effects_of_cannabis.htm
http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/facts/cannabis/en/
World health org, not averse to misrepresentaion
Acute health effects of cannabis use
The acute effects of cannabis use has been recognized for many years, and recent studies have confirmed and extended earlier findings. These may be summarized as follows:
Cannabis impairs cognitive development (capabilities of learning), including associative processes; free recall of previously learned items is often impaired when cannabi is used both during learning and recall periods;
Cannabis impairs psychomotor performance in a wide variety of tasks, such as motor coordination, divided attention, and operative tasks of many types; human performance on complex machinery can be impaired for as long as 24 hours after smoking as little as 20 mg of THC in cannabis; there is an increased risk of motor vehicle accidents among persons who drive when intoxicated by cannabis.
Chronic health effects of cannabis use
selective impairment of cognitive functioning which include the organization and integration of complex information involving various mechanisms of attention and memory processes;
prolonged use may lead to greater impairment, which may not recover with cessation of use, and which could affect daily life functions;
development of a cannabis dependence syndrome characterized by a loss of control over cannabis use is likely in chronic users;
cannabis use can exacerbate schizophrenia in affected individuals;
epithetial injury of the trachea and major bronchi is caused by long-term cannabis smoking;
airway injury, lung inflammation, and impaired pulmonary defence against infection from persistent cannabis consumption over prolonged periods;
heavy cannabis consumption is associated with a higher prevalence of symptoms of chronic bronchitis and a higher incidence of acute bronchitis than in the non-smoking cohort;
cannabis used during pregnancy is associated with impairment in fetal development leading to a reduction in birth weight;
cannabis use during pregnancy may lead to postnatal risk of rare forms of cancer although more research is needed in this area.
The health consequences of cannabis use in developing countries are largely unknown beacuse of limited and non-systematic research, but there is no reason a priori to expect that biological effects on individuals in these populations would be substantially different to what has been observed in developed countries. However, other consequences might be different given the cultural and social differences between countries.Gurgle wrote:Legalise it to:
1. Control quality
2. Control availibility
3. Take the profits out of criminals pockets
4. Reduce the nation's dependance on alcohol for social interaction.
The dope smokers holy Grail of a society were cannabis is legal and there is more leniancy within the law for drug use I.E Amsterdam is proof that loosening the laws is not going to work, in actual fact it only makes things worse.Gurgle wrote:So thats an arguement you can't refute making it ridiculous.
And for the 100th time, what gives you (or Mary Harney for that matter) the right to decide the I can't smoke pot?
Evidence is required, not stories, allegations and propaganda. The evidence that responsible use of pot has a negative impact on society is just not there.
Noted and pissed on. see above0 -
Gurgle wrote:hehe, the last retreat of the defeated - write the opponent off as an ill-informed teenager and go off in a huff.
I feel I must point out that this particular ill-informed teenager took an active part in the arguement on more than 3 of the previous threads, of which there have been many*, is 30 years old, spent 5 years of his 20s smoking pot on a daily basis(while at the same time persuing a successful career, continuing part time post-graduate education and raising a family) until deciding that his lungs could do with a break and quit without any mental or physical withdrawal symptoms. And while we're on the subject I am and have always been in extremely good health (mental and physical) and lack the beer-gut that many of my advanced age have built up over the last decade.
*none of which contained any convincing reason for pot to be illegal
You wouldnt be the first person to have an alter-ego which manifests itself in half truths and blatant lies about ones life on a message board
Or maybe your not, just ill-informed0 -
meditraitor wrote:Indeed, but these drugs are also illegal in the Netherlands and the loosening of narcotics laws(legalising marajuana being the main one)0
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meditraitor wrote:Im just going to cut and paste a few bits from previous threads,,, seems as you are either to lazy or stoned to read them.meditraitor wrote:A recent study by the British Lung Foundation found that smoking three cannabis joints a day caused the same damage as 20 cigarettes
being what you get in Amsterdam when you walk into a cafè and ask for a joint?
I've been to Amsterdam twice, a single joint is enough to get 2 people mind-numbingly stoned for several hours. 3 joints would compare to more than the weekly usage of someone who has a couple every evening to unwind.meditraitor wrote:The medical community is still debating whether cannabis use leads to lung cancermeditraitor wrote:Both good and bad side effects are attributable to a major mind altering drug called delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) which is a psychoactive ingredient found in cannabis. THC mimics the actions of the brain's receptors so interfering with the brain's ability to function normally.meditraitor wrote:Cannabis impairs cognitive development (capabilities of learning), including associative processes; free recall of previously learned items is often impaired when cannabi is used both during learning and recall periods;meditraitor wrote:Cannabis impairs psychomotor performance in a wide variety of tasks, such as motor coordination, divided attention, and operative tasks of many types; human performance on complex machinery can be impaired for as long as 24 hours after smoking as little as 20 mg of THC in cannabis; there is an increased risk of motor vehicle accidents among persons who drive when intoxicated by cannabis.meditraitor wrote:... may...may not...could...canmeditraitor wrote:epithetial injury of the trachea and major bronchi is caused by long-term cannabis smoking;
airway injury, lung inflammation, and impaired pulmonary defence against infection from persistent cannabis consumption over prolonged periods;
heavy cannabis consumption is associated with a higher prevalence of symptoms of chronic bronchitis and a higher incidence of acute bronchitis than in the non-smoking cohort;Gurgle wrote:Its fairly well established that burning anything and inhaling the smoke is detrimental to the old lungs.meditraitor wrote:cannabis used during pregnancy is associated with impairment in fetal development leading to a reduction in birth weight;
cannabis use during pregnancy may lead to postnatal risk of rare forms of cancer although more research is needed in this area.meditraitor wrote:The dope smokers holy Grail of a society were cannabis is legal and there is more leniancy within the law for drug use I.E Amsterdam is proof that loosening the laws is not going to work, in actual fact it only makes things worse.meditraitor wrote:Noted and pissed on. see above0 -
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rubadub wrote:Cannabis is illegal to possess and sell in the Netherlands.
Is there a catch in that comment dude, I was under the impression that it was not against the law to have or sell marajuana in HollandBy Associated Press
Published October 13, 2004
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - There's a whiff of crisis in the air at the Dutch Health Ministry: It's sitting on a pile of pot that it just can't sell.
The Netherlands rolled out a program last year that allows patients to buy prescription marijuana at any pharmacy. Some medical insurance policies cover at least part of the cost, but often not enough to offset the pharmacy price.
In a country where any adult can walk into a "coffee shop" and smoke a joint for much less than the government price, many say the experiment is a bust.
"I think it's a shame that they can't deliver a cannabis product a little bit cheaper than the coffee shops," said David Watson, head of Hortapharm, an Amsterdam company licensed to research and develop cannabis for pharmaceutical use. "Why is it that a legal commodity is more expensive than an illegal commodity?"0 -
dont smoke at all when your pregnant or drink ... any drug like drink and smoke is bad for a developing baby.
And the study done that shows brain desease was done on 15 peoplehahaha other studys that have been done to show the benifits were ACTUAL studys done on 300+ which i think is the minimal number for a study of that sort to be valid.
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Originally Posted by meditraitor
Im just going to cut and paste a few bits from previous threads,,, seems as you are either to lazy or stoned to read them.
Not stoned, see my post
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
A recent study by the British Lung Foundation found that smoking three cannabis joints a day caused the same damage as 20 cigarettes
3 standard joints?
being what you get in Amsterdam when you walk into a cafè and ask for a joint?
I've been to Amsterdam twice, a single joint is enough to get 2 people mind-numbingly stoned for several hours. 3 joints would compare to more than the weekly usage of someone who has a couple every evening to unwind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
The medical community is still debating whether cannabis use leads to lung cancer
No, they aren't. Its established scientific fact that smoking cannabis and / or tobacco increases the risk of lung cancer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
Both good and bad side effects are attributable to a major mind altering drug called delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) which is a psychoactive ingredient found in cannabis. THC mimics the actions of the brain's receptors so interfering with the brain's ability to function normally.
Well people wouldn't bother smoking it if it didn't interfere with the brains ability to function normally. Thats what makes it fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
Cannabis impairs cognitive development (capabilities of learning), including associative processes; free recall of previously learned items is often impaired when cannabi is used both during learning and recall periods;
So don't give it to children and don't try to study while your stoned. Duh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
Cannabis impairs psychomotor performance in a wide variety of tasks, such as motor coordination, divided attention, and operative tasks of many types; human performance on complex machinery can be impaired for as long as 24 hours after smoking as little as 20 mg of THC in cannabis; there is an increased risk of motor vehicle accidents among persons who drive when intoxicated by cannabis.
So dont go to work or drive while stoned. Duh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
... may...may not...could...can
Scientific evidence does not include the use of these words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
epithetial injury of the trachea and major bronchi is caused by long-term cannabis smoking;
airway injury, lung inflammation, and impaired pulmonary defence against infection from persistent cannabis consumption over prolonged periods;
heavy cannabis consumption is associated with a higher prevalence of symptoms of chronic bronchitis and a higher incidence of acute bronchitis than in the non-smoking cohort;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurgle
Its fairly well established that burning anything and inhaling the smoke is detrimental to the old lungs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
cannabis used during pregnancy is associated with impairment in fetal development leading to a reduction in birth weight;
cannabis use during pregnancy may lead to postnatal risk of rare forms of cancer although more research is needed in this area.
Don't smoke pot while pregnant. Duh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
The dope smokers holy Grail of a society were cannabis is legal and there is more leniancy within the law for drug use I.E Amsterdam is proof that loosening the laws is not going to work, in actual fact it only makes things worse.
You are confusing 2 separate issues: 'cannabis is legal' and 'more leniency within the law for drug use' are unrelated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
Noted and pissed on. see above
right back at ya
I think you have the wrong end of the stick brother, this is a debate
Your not suppose to agree with me:D
And just for good measure i think you should edit the post at the top of the page,Mental health - unproven..
Proven0 -
PTL wrote:dont smoke at all when your pregnant or drink ... any drug like drink and smoke is bad for a developing baby.
And the study done that shows brain desease was done on 15 peoplehahaha other studys that have been done to show the benifits were ACTUAL studys done on 300+ which i think is the minimal number for a study of that sort to be valid.
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meditraitor wrote:Your not suppose to agree with me:D
I think its a good thing that the whole country doesn't smoke a joint with their coffee in the morning. I just don't think people are so stupid that they would if it was legal.
(Some people are of course, but they're doing it anyway)meditraitor wrote:Proven0 -
Scientists say smoking cannabis DOESN'T lead to taking harder drugs
By Bob Roberts
March 2, 2006 - mirror.co.uk
CLAIMS that cannabis use leads to harder drugs were yesterday dismissed as nonsense.
A report to MPs said most scientists rejected the idea that smoking dope encouraged people to try out Class A drugs like heroin and cocaine.
It said: "The gateway theory that the use of drugs like cannabis leads on to the use of harder drugs has little evidence to support it despite copious research."
The report to the Commons Science Committee also questioned the whole system used to classify illegal drugs.
It said ministers' decisions to put drugs into Class A, B or C categories with different penalties were not based on scientific evidence.
The report said: "Drugs are not classified on the basis of a set of standards for the harm they cause. The criteria used have varied depending on the drug in question."
The report said magic mushrooms were classified as a Class A drug despite little evidence they did much harm.
It said ecstasy was also a Class A drug for "unclear" reasons and despite evidence it was "several thousand times less dangerous than heroin". Committee chairman Phil Willis said there were real questions about whether the classification system worked.
He said: "We want to see whether the system as it stands has a sound basis of evidence.
"We want to see whether it is evidence rather than political expediency that is driving decisions."
The Home Office is also growing increasingly concerned the system does not work. In January Home Secretary Charles Clarke announced plans for a complete overhaul of the way drugs are categorised and prohibited.
Class A drugs which carry a seven-year penalty for possession include heroin, LSD, ecstasy, cocaine, crack and magic mushrooms.
Class B drugs are amphetamines and barbiturates carrying five years for possession. Class C drugs include cannabis, steroids, and the tranquillizer ketamine which carry two years for possession.
The report comes after a UN drugs agency warned this week of the rise of dance and sex drug methamphetamine, or crystal meth.
It warned it is more addictive than crack cocaine and is becoming a global problem.
The International Narcotics Control Board called on governments across the world to introduce tougher restrictions on chemicals used in the manufacture of the drug, which allows users to stay awake for days and increases sexual arousal.
London-based INCB president, Professor Hamid Ghodse said: "If I want to pick on one major drug problem pandemic today, it is methamphetamine."0 -
rubadub wrote:London-based INCB president, Professor Hamid Ghodse said: "If I want to pick on one major drug problem pandemic today, it is methamphetamine."
What a ridiculous thing to say. Meth is almost non-existant in Europe. This is the
fourth or fifth article in the past couple of weeks talking about the meth epidemic, it doesn't exist.0 -
meditraitor wrote:Take your head out of the sand brother, this topic has been played out thoroughly on at least 3 other threads,
Claim and counter claim, links, reports and personal experience... and in the end no-one not even the pro dopes can say cannabis is not harmfull...
Mark
So is tobacco Meditraitor. So there fore by your's and the goverments reasoning shouldnt alcohol and tobbaco and cafiene also be illegal?
The reason it is illegal is Moranicley stupid. I know this is an oild thread and no one probabley still post's ( got this far and had to reply) *point's to qoute*
The reason why it is illegal is because back in the 1920's during the league of nations 2nd Opium meeting on the discussions of making opium illegal There was an Egyption member who stood up and gave the reasons why Hashish and cannabis are still Illegal today.
"People who use Hashish and cannabis , known as Hashishers, Are lazy and spend most of the time while on the drug Laughing like a crazy person, eating like a slob, Forgetfull, They have a lack in sexual desire, and motavation"
i will posty the full speech when I can find one. Even watch An audience with Mr Nice and he say's the speech.0 -
Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
Cannabis impairs psychomotor performance in a wide variety of tasks, such as motor coordination, divided attention, and operative tasks of many types; human performance on complex machinery can be impaired for as long as 24 hours after smoking as little as 20 mg of THC in cannabis; there is an increased risk of motor vehicle accidents among persons who drive when intoxicated by cannabis.
So dont go to work or drive while stoned. Duh!
There was a study done in the uk a few years back at this stage on the effects of driving under the influence of Cannabis.
The subjects who were straight had no propblems dfriving. The people with a couple of glasses of wine are all over the place and the subjects who had been treated to some rather tasty joints were slower but no more impared than those who were straight. So cannabis effects driving is bollox. u know ur wacked and take it slower.
Please do your research properly Mediator as you are talking a load of crap most of the time.
I also smoke during Work and I find I am more productive stoned than straight.
People Smoking Cannabis is damgaing to you helath but only in the same way tobacco damages your helath. You can enjoy cannabis without health risk's.
Just start making muffins or brownies instead of smoking. No helath risks there. FACT. Drinking can be more dangerous to your helath than smoking a few joints every day depending on the amount you drink and how often you drink.0 -
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Both good and bad side effects are attributable to a major mind altering drug called delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) which is a psychoactive ingredient found in cannabis. THC mimics the actions of the brain's receptors so interfering with the brain's ability to function normally.
Im sorry Mediator but again this is crap. Your brain and EVERYONE'S barin in the entire world Has Natural THC receptors and NATURALLY produces minuite amounts of THC. Why do you think you get hungry in the middle of the night?
Cannabis is one of the Most amzing NATURALLY occuring plants on the earth.
If every country let Hempo grow wild we would see a slight drop in our Grenhouse Gasses as Hemp Loves CO2.
Hemp Is also a better raw material than wood.
It can be used to make Rope, Linens, clothes, Paper, canalso be used for Fuel for cars. No lie.
As I said Mediator do your research before splurting your brainwashed knowledge( or lack of ) of drugs to people.0
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