Cannabis to remain class C in the UK

PTL

Meths havnt hit europe in a big way YET and thats why they are going on n on about it, and they fecking should ... having spent a fair amount of time in the states i know its a massive problem over there and in my opinion its worse then heroin and if it hit europe in a big way then crime would go up alot ....

If cannabis was legalised crime would go down Less dealers, and less drunk people so less hospital bills

Ganjdalf

meditraitor wrote:

Your not very well informed boy are you! there is at least 3 threads that have debated this before and I am not willing to get into a pissing contest with some ill informed teenager who hasnt a clue what he is talking about!

speak for your Self mediator. You have been the only illinformed person on this thread.

you have moaned at all arguments brouught to you on this subject and not thought abouut any of them seriousley.

Don't believe the Goverment bull**** of why we shouldnt smoke pot as they are outdated bull**** views.

As i mentioned before I will try and post the reasons why it is illegal and why it is a stupid argument.

Have to find the article first.

Boggle

I feel like I'm going ound and round debating this... Nobody listens to any arguments anyone puts up, instead preferring to side with their own prejudices, but I can tell my experience with the drug I suppose. Doubt any of you'll listen but then again some people like to live life through text books instead of experiences (not looking at anyone!!:rolleyes: )

I have been smoking pretty regular for about 10 or so years now but have never had too many side effects from it. Right now (and for the past few weeks) I have none at home and have not smoked, but not due to my poor finances or difficulty in supply, more to do with the fact that I just don't feel like it. My mental health is unimpaired - I am a bloody good and sharp engineer who was always considered an asset to any company worked with and my fitness makes alot of people look pathetic. I live a decent life and meet plenty of people - get on great with my family - and have a lovely girlfriend.

So I ask you what harm has the drug done me so far? Are there long term problems associated with constant use?? Possibly... but then again you could say that about McDonalds. (Maybe you should substitute constant use with abuse!!)

Basically I have never seen a decent argument from anyone teling me why this so called EVIL drug should be banned. I could argue for the removal of cigarettes or drink at the drop of a hat due to their awful effects on many peoples lives but I cannot do the same for hash as use was never removed from the "choice" category and moved to the "compulsive/addictive" category. I accept that some people may have bad experiences and indeed know some who had and as a result just don't smoke anymore... but why should it be illegal for me to smoke just because a few are unable to understand the term "in moderation"??

meditraitor

It took you a month to reply, could you not have come up with something better than these¬

Ganjdalf wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by meditraitor
Cannabis impairs psychomotor performance in a wide variety of tasks, such as motor coordination, divided attention, and operative tasks of many types; human performance on complex machinery can be impaired for as long as 24 hours after smoking as little as 20 mg of THC in cannabis; there is an increased risk of motor vehicle accidents among persons who drive when intoxicated by cannabis. .

I cant claim this is my statement, as I have shown on the original quote, this is the WHO

Ganjdalf wrote:

So dont go to work or drive while stoned. Duh!.

I dont

Ganjdalf wrote:

There was a study done in the uk a few years back at this stage on the effects of driving under the influence of Cannabis.

The subjects who were straight had no propblems dfriving. The people with a couple of glasses of wine are all over the place and the subjects who had been treated to some rather tasty joints were slower but no more impared than those who were straight. So cannabis effects driving is bollox. u know ur wacked and take it slower. .

No source(again), no link, any rational person would think you made this up!

Ganjdalf wrote:

Please do your research properly Mediator as you are talking a load of crap most of the time. .

I have used links and reports from reputable world bodies to make my argument, something you seem remiss to do!

Ganjdalf wrote:

I also smoke during Work and I find I am more productive stoned than straight..

This is a serious issue, you should see a therapist if it is true.

Ganjdalf wrote:

People Smoking Cannabis is damgaing to you helath but only in the same way tobacco damages your helath. You can enjoy cannabis without health risk's.
Just start making muffins or brownies instead of smoking. No helath risks there. FACT. Drinking can be more dangerous to your helath than smoking a few joints every day depending on the amount you drink and how often you drink.

No arguments here.

Ganjdalf wrote:

Both good and bad side effects are attributable to a major mind altering drug called delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) which is a psychoactive ingredient found in cannabis. THC mimics the actions of the brain's receptors so interfering with the brain's ability to function normally.!.

Again this is an opinion based on a myriad of research carried out by reputable scientists and world bodies

Ganjdalf wrote:

Im sorry Mediator but again this is crap. Your brain and EVERYONE'S barin in the entire world Has Natural THC receptors and NATURALLY produces minuite amounts of THC. Why do you think you get hungry in the middle of the night? !.

Your nearly correct here, but then again you dont prove it, a bit more research will do you know harm, although at the rate you reply it will probably be christmas before you come up with something

Ganjdalf wrote:

Cannabis is one of the Most amzing NATURALLY occuring plants on the earth. !.

This is true, hemp has some amazing qualities, but its not "LOVE HEMP" day in the medi household so Im not going to go to the trouble of elaborating for you,

Ganjdalf wrote:

If every country let Hempo grow wild we would see a slight drop in our Grenhouse Gasses as Hemp Loves CO2. !.

Indeed, and your point is?

Ganjdalf wrote:

Hemp Is also a better raw material than wood.
It can be used to make Rope, Linens, clothes, Paper, canalso be used for Fuel for cars. No lie. !.

Again, what has this got to do with the debate!

Ganjdalf wrote:

As I said Mediator do your research before splurting your brainwashed knowledge( or lack of ) of drugs to people.!.

"MEDITRAITOR" a mediator is a different thing all together
http://dictionary.reference.com/

Ganjdalf wrote:

speak for your Self mediator. You have been the only illinformed person on this thread. !.

This is your veiw but I have only debated using reports and linked to said reports, your using speculation and have not once shown your sources

Walter mitty esk

Ganjdalf wrote:

you have moaned at all arguments brouught to you on this subject and not thought abouut any of them seriousley. !.

I only tried to bring balance to a thread that was turning into a "drugs are great" thread

Ganjdalf wrote:

Don't believe the Goverment bull**** of why we shouldnt smoke pot as they are outdated bull**** views. !.

Yor being paranoid now, the government is not out to get you, seriously

Ganjdalf wrote:

As i mentioned before I will try and post the reasons why it is illegal and why it is a stupid argument.!.

Well I wish you would start!

Ganjdalf wrote:

Have to find the article first.!.

This describes your whole argument:rolleyes:

Do yourself a favour and re-read the threads already posted about cannabis use,
Some of the Pro-Cannabis lobby have given very good arguments for the legalising of said substance, sadly you are not one of them.

rubadub

meditraitor wrote:

This is a serious issue, you should see a therapist if it is true.

Would you advise a therapist to people who think they are more productive after they have their morning cup of coffee? Many people use drugs in their daily lives. I know some artists who would also say they are more productive after taking cannabis. Some musicians/performers take alcohol to calm nerves. I remember people taking up smoking in school before the leaving cert to calm nerves, in college I knew people who took amphetamine to study later and be more alert/absorbing of information.

Some people have this idea that all drug users do it to extremes, likening a cannabis user to the wino in the street, while accepting that people could simply enjoy a glass of wine with their dinner, but blind to the fact that other recreational drugs can be enjoyed in the same threshold doses. The artists/graphic designers I know would take really minimal amounts of cannabis, they would be "higher" after a strong cup of coffee.

meditraitor

rubadub wrote:

Would you advise a therapist to people who think they are more productive after they have their morning cup of coffee? Many people use drugs in their daily lives. I know some artists who would also say they are more productive after taking cannabis. Some musicians/performers take alcohol to calm nerves. I remember people taking up smoking in school before the leaving cert to calm nerves, in college I knew people who took amphetamine to study later and be more alert/absorbing of information.

Some people have this idea that all drug users do it to extremes, likening a cannabis user to the wino in the street, while accepting that people could simply enjoy a glass of wine with their dinner, but blind to the fact that other recreational drugs can be enjoyed in the same threshold doses. The artists/graphic designers I know would take really minimal amounts of cannabis, they would be "higher" after a strong cup of coffee.

Why do people feel they have to use a substance to improve there productivity or creativity?
Is there some deep seated feeling that they are lacking the ability or knowhow to live their life without artificial stimuli.?
I see this as a problem.

Drugs dont make you smarter or happier, they dont improve your life they only offer an escape from the parts of you life you cant handle,

Gurgle

meditraitor wrote:

Why do people feel they have to use a substance to improve there productivity or creativity?

If the chilled out and relaxed state of mind aids somebody in performing and enjoying their work, then why not? why shouldn't they have the choice?
I could never process complicated engineering concepts while stoned, so I never went to work stoned. Thats me, I won't judge people in different circumstances based only on my own experience.

meditraitor wrote:

Is there some deep seated feeling that they are lacking the ability or knowhow to live their life without artificial stimuli.?

Nope, just a deep seated notion that its nice to chill out and get a bit stoned while watching crap on tv after the work is done and the kids are in bed.

meditraitor wrote:

they only offer an escape from the parts of you life you cant handle

If thats a person's reason for 'doing drugs', then that person needs councelling.

rubadub

meditraitor wrote:

Why do people feel they have to use a substance to improve there productivity or creativity?

Well it is a competitive world out there maybe they feel they need an extra edge to compete in the workplace, just like athletes feel they need for performance enhancing drugs to compete with their peers. I see people queueing each morning for their daily fix of caffeine to start the day there are a lot of these people out there use/abusing these substances.

meditraitor wrote:

Is there some deep seated feeling that they are lacking the ability or knowhow to live their life without artificial stimuli.?
I see this as a problem.

I doubt most moderate drug users would consider it a problem to themselves. Authorities seem to have this deep-rooted fear of altered states of conciousness, most people have a natural drive to experience altered states of conciousness, just like some have a higher drive for sex, food or power than others. Some people have little or no such drive and demonise people who do since they simply cannot fathom why they would want to experience such states.

meditraitor wrote:

Drugs dont make you smarter or happier, they dont improve your life they only offer an escape from the parts of you life you cant handle,

Do you or your family/friends take ANY mood altering drugs? do you think the only possible reason they could drink a glass of wine, a cup of tea, cigarette is to escape parts or their lives that they cannot handle?

meditraitor

rubadub wrote:

Well it is a competitive world out there maybe they feel they need an extra edge to compete in the workplace, just like athletes feel they need for performance enhancing drugs to compete with their peers. I see people queueing each morning for their daily fix of caffeine to start the day there are a lot of these people out there use/abusing these substances.?

Athletes who feel they need to take performance enhancing drugs do so because of this deep-seated inferiority complex... or power tripping

rubadub wrote:

I doubt most moderate drug users would consider it a problem to themselves. Authorities seem to have this deep-rooted fear of altered states of conciousness, most people have a natural drive to experience altered states of conciousness, just like some have a higher drive for sex, food or power than others. Some people have little or no such drive and demonise people who do since they simply cannot fathom why they would want to experience such states.?

Ah-"most moderate" users, indeed, but that doesnt describe the whole story does it.
Tell me what is a moderate drug user?
As for altered states, I feel the authorities have a fear of it because of the unknown effects of these stimuli induced altered states of conciousness, the Unknown is something most people are afraid of, and there is examples of people being changed not only for the good but damaged phycologicaly through experimentation with various mind altering drugs!
How can you say what type of person you are untill you take them?

rubadub wrote:

Do you or your family/friends take ANY mood altering drugs? do you think the only possible reason they could drink a glass of wine, a cup of tea, cigarette is to escape parts or their lives that they cannot handle?

Believe me brother, if my mates knew I posting negative opinions with regards "mood altering drugs" they would piss themselves and think it was me taking the mickey, but I am open minded enough to see that there is dangers in such activities for some people, some of these friends would be a testament to the problems caused by drugs and they dont even know it!

Gurgle

meditraitor wrote:

Tell me what is a moderate drug user?

Oh, I know the answer to this one:
Its somebody who uses a drug without making it the centre of his life.
Doesn't spend all day under the effects, only uses it when it won't interfere with other things he has to do.
Doesn't risk his career/family/driving license for his drugs. Doesn't freak out when he runs out.

rubadub

meditraitor wrote:

Athletes who feel they need to take performance enhancing drugs do so because of this deep-seated inferiority complex... or power tripping

I thought most would do it to win the race and get more sponsorship money...

meditraitor wrote:

Ah-"most moderate" users, indeed, but that doesnt describe the whole story does it.

Of course not, it describes the majority of users though. Like I was mentioning people have no problem believing the fact that most people who take caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are able to do so in moderation and can live normal lives and are not going around wired to the moon speaking gibberish all day. Yet some people think illegal drug users are doped up out of control fiends. Of course some are, just like legal drug users. Because of the illegality of the drugs non-users do not regularly see the normal moderate side of drug use and only read what is in the media. If alcohol was illegal people would think all users are highly aggressive killers with infected livers and no braincells, thats what the user would be portrayed like by the media and anti-drug campaigners.

meditraitor wrote:

Tell me what is a moderate drug user?

Probably somebody who can go about their daily lives without utter dependance on a drug. Somebody who can function in society. I would consider my grandmother a moderate drug user. I would not consider say pete doherty or shane magowan to be moderate drug users.

meditraitor wrote:

How can you say what type of person you are untill you take them?

There is an argument there against junk food and gambling too, just because a minority will abuse something is not a very good reason to ban it for everybody else.

meditraitor wrote:

but I am open minded enough to see that there is dangers in such activities for some people, some of these friends would be a testament to the problems caused by drugs and they dont even know it!

So do you still think every person who takes a mood altering drug does so to escape parts or their lives that they cannot handle? Many refer to them as recreational drugs, taken for recreation.

meditraitor

Gurgle wrote:

Oh, I know the answer to this one:
Its somebody who uses a drug without making it the centre of his life.
Doesn't spend all day under the effects, only uses it when it won't interfere with other things he has to do.
Doesn't risk his career/family/driving license for his drugs. Doesn't freak out when he runs out.

Good Lad-now tell me- are all drug users Moderate Users?

meditraitor

rubadub wrote:

I thought most would do it to win the race and get more sponsorship money....

:rolleyes: come on

rubadub wrote:

Of course not, it describes the majority of users though. Like I was mentioning people have no problem believing the fact that most people who take caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are able to do so in moderation and can live normal lives and are not going around wired to the moon speaking gibberish all day. Yet some people think illegal drug users are doped up out of control fiends. Of course some are, just like legal drug users. Because of the illegality of the drugs non-users do not regularly see the normal moderate side of drug use and only read what is in the media. If alcohol was illegal people would think all users are highly aggressive killers with infected livers and no braincells, thats what the user would be portrayed like by the media and anti-drug campaigners..

So, maybe im wrong, bit dislexic, but from this I gather your point is
All these other "harmfull" substances are legal so why not recreational drugs?

rubadub wrote:

Probably somebody who can go about their daily lives without utter dependance on a drug. Somebody who can function in society. I would consider my grandmother a moderate drug user. I would not consider say pete doherty or shane magowan to be moderate drug users..

just picturing you and your granny smoking a dooby and laughing at the magic roundabout!

rubadub wrote:

There is an argument there against junk food and gambling too, just because a minority will abuse something is not a very good reason to ban it for everybody else..

Ok ban junk food, or increase education,

rubadub wrote:

So do you still think every person who takes a mood altering drug does so to escape parts or their lives that they cannot handle? Many refer to them as recreational drugs, taken for recreation.

Yes,

Boggle

meditraitor wrote:

come on

Why, what other use do performance enhancing drugs have in sport?? Get faster, win race - get the glory...

So, maybe im wrong, bit dislexic, but from this I gather your point is
All these other "harmfull" substances are legal so why not recreational drugs?

Yeah sure... you could say that. Why are some drugs classed illegal and others legal? Is it due to the risk in taking them? Can't be. Or is it just cos they have always been??..

just picturing you and your granny smoking a dooby and laughing at the magic roundabout!

Is that what constitutes an argument these days? Obviously education in this country has gone down hill since I left school...:rolleyes:

Ok ban junk food, or increase education,

I refuse to live in a country where a hamburger is illegal cos some 16 stone blimps couldn't stop eating. Same theory could be applied to hash.

Yes,

You must really love your little bubble of self assuredness... So when I am sitting down on the odd sunday with the girlfriend, smokin spliffs and watching some crap funny movie and laughing my arse off, what psrt of my life am I trying to escape?? I like my life - tough and all as it can be at times. ... oh wait, I'm sorry - have I destroyed your delusions???

rubadub

meditraitor wrote:

:rolleyes: come on

?? I was going to roll my eyes at your "deep-seated inferiority complex" comment. I certainly do believe most atheletes taking enhancement drugs do so to have a physical advantage, win their competition and hence make more money. Makes perfect sense to me. Just like the guy drinking coffee feels it makes him more productive and may win a promotion over another colleague.

meditraitor wrote:

So, maybe im wrong, bit dislexic, but from this I gather your point is All these other "harmfull" substances are legal so why not recreational drugs?

All these other potentially harmful substances or activities are legal, yes. In another thread I was challenging people to name any substance on the planet that could not be harmful is taken to excess or abused, they failed miserably, stating water, thinking they were being smart until they heard of its potential for abuse leading to death.
If every substance with the potential for harm was banned you would starve to death, supermarkets would be empty.
Point is the majority of people can use these substances in moderation with no major risk to themselves or others so why ban them due to a minor % who refuse to do so.

meditraitor wrote:

Ok ban junk food, or increase education,

increase education, yes. ban junk food no. I enjoy the odd chocolate bar every few days, or a bag of crisps now and then. I am not morbidly obese, why should I have to suffer because people, like our own health minister, choose to abuse food and endanger their own health.

rubadub

meditraitor wrote:

Good Lad-now tell me- are all drug users Moderate Users?

Why bother asking a question you know the answer to? You already know his answer and it is not as though you can then go "aha! you admit it!", you are not catching him out on anything. The very notion of "moderate" infers that there are other "immoderate" users.

meditraitor

Boggle wrote:

Why, what other use do performance enhancing drugs have in sport?? Get faster, win race - get the glory... ???

Only if the athlete knows he is not good enough to win on his own steam, he isnt only cheating against his opponents but he's is cheating himself.

Boggle wrote:

Yeah sure... you could say that. Why are some drugs classed illegal and others legal? Is it due to the risk in taking them? Can't be. Or is it just cos they have always been??..???

Ok, legalise heroin?

Boggle wrote:

Is that what constitutes an argument these days? Obviously education in this country has gone down hill since I left school...:rolleyes:???

This is the direction the thread has headed, so please look at previous posts before making a personal attack

Boggle wrote:

I refuse to live in a country where a hamburger is illegal cos some 16 stone blimps couldn't stop eating.???

.
Me Too

Boggle wrote:

Same theory could be applied to hash.???

Please elaborate, how can fast food be compared to Hash

Boggle wrote:

You must really love your little bubble of self assuredness... So when I am sitting down on the odd sunday with the girlfriend, smokin spliffs and watching some crap funny movie and laughing my arse off, what psrt of my life am I trying to escape?? I like my life - tough and all as it can be at times. ... oh wait, I'm sorry - have I destroyed your delusions???

Not even close! It has only proved to me how narrow minded some people are,
You could say the same about me, but

Gurgle

rubadub wrote:

The very notion of "moderate" infers that there are other "immoderate" users.

^^ What he said!

meditraitor

rubadub wrote:

Why bother asking a question you know the answer to? You already know his answer and it is not as though you can then go "aha! you admit it!", you are not catching him out on anything. The very notion of "moderate" infers that there are other "immoderate" users.

This is getting into semantics now, and gradually desending into a pissing contest, but my point is that a percentage of people do take the wrong road and the fall-out for these people and their Friends/Family can do immeasurable damage.

rubadub wrote:

If every substance with the potential for harm was banned you would starve to death, supermarkets would be empty.
Point is the majority of people can use these substances in moderation with no major risk to themselves or others so why ban them due to a minor % who refuse to do so.

Now compare this to the percentage of people who over-dose on water(for example) and the fall-out associated to that....


Now how can we determine who should be allowed to take these substance?
because as you have said "Some people will have an adverse effect to these substances"

Gurgle

meditraitor wrote:

my point is that a percentage of people do take the wrong road and the fall-out for these people and their Friends/Family can do immeasurable damage.

You'll get no arguement to that fact.
Some drugs are worse than others, abuse of caffene leads to poor sleeping patterns, abuse of alcohol leads to violence and broken homes, abuse of cannabis leads to... em... teeth rotting from too much chocolate and crisps.

Anyway, back to the points:
1. Those people are doing it anyway.
2. They're not so sure what they're actually smoking. Legalise and control.
3. What gives the government the right to ban recreational use of a mild and non-addictive drug?

ronanp

I love these debates, mostly for the over-enthusiastic participation of the ill-informed. They serve ultimately to show the common toker that the unstoned world is a very stupid place, probably best avoided and possibly best erradicated.

Remember what the doormouse said........ FEED YOUR HEAD

meditraitor

Gurgle wrote:

You'll get no arguement to that fact.
Some drugs are worse than others, abuse of caffene leads to poor sleeping patterns, abuse of alcohol leads to violence and broken homes, abuse of cannabis leads to... em... teeth rotting from too much chocolate and crisps.?

Effects on the Brain

Scientists have learned a great deal about how THC acts in the brain to produce its many effects. When someone smokes marijuana, THC rapidly passes from the lungs into the bloodstream, which carries the chemical to organs throughout the body, including the brain.

In the brain, THC connects to specific sites called cannabinoid receptors on nerve cells and influences the activity of those cells. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors; others have few or none. Many cannabinoid receptors are found in the parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thought, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement(5).

The short-term effects of marijuana can include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception; difficulty in thinking and problem solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate. Research findings for long-term marijuana use indicate some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs of abuse. For example, cannabinoid (THC or synthetic forms of THC) withdrawal in chronically exposed animals leads to an increase in the activation of the stress-response system(6) and changes in the activity of nerve cells containing dopamine(7). Dopamine neurons are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward, and are directly or indirectly affected by all drugs of abuse.


Effects on the Heart

One study has indicated that a user’s risk of heart attack more than quadruples in the first hour after smoking marijuana(8). The researchers suggest that such an effect might occur from marijuana’s effects on blood pressure and heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of blood.


Effects on the Lungs

A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers(9). Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.

Even infrequent use can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, often accompanied by a heavy cough. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers do, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, a heightened risk of lung infections, and a greater tendency to obstructed airways(10). Smoking marijuana increases the likelihood of developing cancer of the head or neck, and the more marijuana smoked the greater the increase(11). A study comparing 173 cancer patients and 176 healthy individuals produced strong evidence that marijuana smoking doubled or tripled the risk of these cancers.

Marijuana use also has the potential to promote cancer of the lungs and other parts of the respiratory tract because it contains irritants and carcinogens(12, 13). In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke(14). It also produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form—levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells(15). Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which increases the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke. These facts suggest that, puff for puff, smoking marijuana may increase the risk of cancer more than smoking tobacco.


Other Health Effects

Some of marijuana’s adverse health effects may occur because THC impairs the immune system’s ability to fight off infectious diseases and cancer. In laboratory experiments that exposed animal and human cells to THC or other marijuana ingredients, the normal disease-preventing reactions of many of the key types of immune cells were inhibited(16). In other studies, mice exposed to THC or related substances were more likely than unexposed mice to develop bacterial infections and tumors(17, 18).


Effects of Heavy Marijuana Use on Learning and Social Behavior

Depression(19), anxiety(20), and personality disturbances(21) have been associated with marijuana use. Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person’s existing problems worse. Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off(22, 23).

Students who smoke marijuana get lower grades and are less likely to graduate from high school, compared with their non-smoking peers(24, 25, 26, 27). A study of 129 college students found that, for heavy users of marijuana (those who smoked the drug at least 27 of the preceding 30 days), critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning were significantly impaired even after they had not used the drug for at least 24 hours(28). The heavy marijuana users in the study had more trouble sustaining and shifting their attention and in registering, organizing, and using information than did the study participants who had used marijuana no more than 3 of the previous 30 days. As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a reduced intellectual level all of the time.

More recently, the same researchers showed that the ability of a group of long-term heavy marijuana users to recall words from a list remained impaired for a week after quitting, but returned to normal within 4 weeks(29). Thus, it is possible that some cognitive abilities may be restored in individuals who quit smoking marijuana, even after long-term heavy use.

Workers who smoke marijuana are more likely than their coworkers to have problems on the job. Several studies associate workers’ marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers’ compensation claims, and job turnover. A study of municipal workers found that those who used marijuana on or off the job reported more “withdrawal behaviors”—such as leaving work without permission, daydreaming, spending work time on personal matters, and shirking tasks—that adversely affect productivity and morale(30). In another study, marijuana users reported that use of the drug impaired several important measures of life achievement including cognitive abilities, career status, social life, and physical and mental health(31).


Effects on Pregnancy

Research has shown that babies born to women who used marijuana during their pregnancies display altered responses to visual stimuli, increased tremulousness, and a high-pitched cry, which may indicate neurological problems in development(32). During infancy and preschool years, marijuana-exposed children have been observed to have more behavioral problems than unexposed children and poorer performance on tasks of visual perception, language comprehension, sustained attention, and memory(33, 34). In school, these children are more likely to exhibit deficits in decision-making skills, memory, and the ability to remain attentive(35, 36, 37).


Addictive Potential

Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction for some people; that is, they use the drug compulsively even though it interferes with family, school, work, and recreational activities. Drug craving and withdrawal symptoms can make it hard for long-term marijuana smokers to stop using the drug. People trying to quit report irritability, sleeplessness, and anxiety(38). They also display increased aggression on psychological tests, peaking approximately one week after the last use of the drug(39).


Genetic Vulnerability

Scientists have found that whether an individual has positive or negative sensations after smoking marijuana can be influenced by heredity. A 1997 study demonstrated that identical male twins were more likely than non-identical male twins to report similar responses to marijuana use, indicating a genetic basis for their response to the drug(40). (Identical twins share all of their genes.)

It also was discovered that the twins’ shared or family environment before age 18 had no detectable influence on their response to marijuana. Certain environmental factors, however, such as the availability of marijuana, expectations about how the drug would affect them, the influence of friends and social contacts, and other factors that differentiate experiences of identical twins were found to have an important effect.

Gurgle wrote:

Anyway, back to the points:?

Indeed

Gurgle wrote:

1. Those people are doing it anyway.?

Using this analogy maybe heroin should be legalised

Gurgle wrote:

2. They're not so sure what they're actually smoking. Legalise and control.?

Heroin again,for example

Gurgle wrote:

3. What gives the government the right to ban recreational use of a mild and non-addictive drug?

I dont think they have the right to ban non-addictive drugs either, but the Pro-Dopes have not been able to get a decent argument going, for the legalisation of cannabis.......

meditraitor

1 NSDUH (formerly known as the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse) is an annual survey conducted by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. Copies of the latest survey are available from the National Clearinghouse for Alcohol and Drug Information at 1-800-729-6686.

2 These data are from the 2003 Monitoring the Future Survey, funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, DHHS, and conducted by the University of Michigan’s Institute for Social Research. The survey has tracked 12th-graders’ illicit drug use and related attitudes since 1975; in 1991, 8th- and 10th-graders were added to the study. The latest data are online at www.drugabuse.gov.

3 These data are from the 2003 Monitoring the Future Survey.

4 These data are from the annual Drug Abuse Warning Network, funded by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, DHHS. The survey provides information about emergency department visits that are induced by or related to the use of an illicit drug or the nonmedical use of a legal drug. The latest data (2002) are available at 1-800-729-6686 or online at www.samhsa.gov.

5 Herkenham M, Lynn A, Little MD, Johnson MR, et al: Cannabinoid receptor localization in the brain. Proc Natl Acad Sci, USA 87:1932-1936, 1990.

6 Rodriguez de Fonseca F, et al: Activation of cortocotropin-releasing factor in the limbic system during cannabinoid withdrawal. Science 276(5321):2050-2064, 1997.

7 Diana M, Melis M, Muntoni AL, et al: Mesolimbic dopaminergic decline after cannabinoid withdrawal. Proc Natl Acad Sci 95:10269-10273, 1998.

8 Mittleman MA, Lewis RA, Maclure M, et al: Triggering myocardial infarction by marijuana. Circulation 103:2805-2809, 2001.

9 Polen MR, Sidney S, Tekawa IS, et al: Health care use by frequent marijuana smokers who do not smoke tobacco. West J Med 158:596-601, 1993.

10 Tashkin DP: Pulmonary complications of smoked substance abuse. West J Med 152:525-530, 1990.

11 Zhang ZF, Morgenstern H, Spitz MR, et al: Marijuana use and increased risk of squamous cell carcinoma of the head and neck. Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention 6:1071-1078, 1999.

12 Ibid ref 10.

13 Sridhar KS, Raub WA, Weatherby, NL Jr, et al: Possible role of marijuana smoking as a carcinogen in the development of lung cancer at a young age. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 26(3):285-288, 1994.

14 Hoffman D, Brunnemann KD, Gori GB, et al: On the carcinogenicity of marijuana smoke. In: VC Runeckles, ed, Recent Advances in Phytochemistry. New York. Plenum, 1975.

15 Cohen S: Adverse effects of marijuana: selected issues. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 362:119-124, 1981.

16 Adams IB, Martin BR: Cannabis: pharmacology and toxicology in animals and humans. Addiction 91:1585-1614, 1996.

17 Klein TW, Newton C, Friedman H: Resistance to Legionella pneumophila suppressed by the marijuana component, tetrahydrocannabinol. J Infectious Disease 169:1177-1179, 1994.

18 Zhu L, Stolina M, Sharma S, et al: Delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol inhibits antitumor immunity by a CB2 receptor-mediated, cytokine-dependent pathway. J Immunology, 2000, pp. 373-380.

19 Brook JS, et al: The effect of early marijuana use on later anxiety and depressive symptoms. NYS Psychologist, January 2001, pp. 35-39.

20 Green BE, Ritter C: Marijuana use and depression. J Health Soc Behav 41(1):40-49, 2000.

21 Brook JS, Cohen P, Brook DW: Longitudinal study of co-occurring psychiatric disorders and substance use. J Acad Child and Adolescent Psych 37:322-330, 1998.

22 Pope HG, Yurgelun-Todd The residual cognitive effects of heavy marijuana use in college students. JAMA 272(7):521-527, 1996.

23 Block RI, Ghoneim MM: Effects of chronic marijuana use on human cognition. Psychopharmacology 100(1-2):219-228, 1993.

24 Lynskey M, Hall W: The effects of adolescent cannabis use on educational attainment: a review. Addiction 95(11):1621-1630, 2000.

25 Kandel DB, Davies M: High school students who use crack and other drugs. Arch Gen Psychiatry 53(1):71-80, 1996.

26 Rob M, Reynolds I, Finlayson PF: Adolescent marijuana use: risk factors and implications. Aust NZ J Psychiatry 24(1):45-56, 1990.

27 Brook JS, Balka EB, Whiteman M: The risks for late adolescence of early adolescent marijuana use. Am J Public Health 89(10):1549-1554, 1999.

28 Ibid ref 22.

29 Pope, Gruber, Hudson, et al: Neuropsychological performance in long-term cannabis users. Archives of General Psychiatry.

30 Lehman WE, Simpson DD: Employee substance abuse and on-the-job behaviors. Journal of Applied Psychology 77(3):309-321, 1992.

31 Gruber, AJ, Pope HG, Hudson HI, Yurgelun-Todd Attributes of long-term heavy cannabis users: A case control study. Psychological Medicine 33:1415-1422, 2003.

32 Lester, BM; Dreher, M: Effects of marijuana use during pregnancy on newborn cry. Child Development 60:764-771, 1989.

33 Fried, PA: The Ottawa prenatal prospective study (OPPS): methodological issues and findings—it’s easy to throw the baby out with the bath water. Life Sciences 56:2159-2168, 1995.

34 Fried, PA: Prenatal exposure to marihuana and tobacco during infancy, early and middle childhood: effects and an attempt at synthesis. Arch Toxicol Supp 17:233-60, 1995.

35 Ibid ref 33.

36 Ibid ref 34.

37 Cornelius MD, Taylor PM, Geva D, et al: Prenatal tobacco and marijuana use among adolescents: effects on offspring gestational age, growth, and morphology. Pediatrics 95:738-743, 1995.

38 Kouri EM, Pope HG, Lukas SE: Changes in aggressive behavior during withdrawal from long-term marijuana use. Psychopharmacology 143:302-308, 1999.

39 Haney M, Ward AS, Comer SD, et al: Abstinence symptoms following smoked marijuana in humans. Psychopharmacology 141:395-404, 1999.

40 Lyons MJ, et al: Addiction 92(4):409-417, 1997.

41 These data from the Treatment Episode Data Set (TEDS) 1992-2000: National Admissions to Substance Abuse Treatment Services, November 2001, funded by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Service Administration, DHHS. The latest data are available at 1-800-729-6686 or online at www.samhsa.gov.

42 Stephens RS, Roffman RA, Curtin L: Comparison of extended versus brief treatments for marijuana use. J Consult Clin Psychol 68(5):898-908, 2000.

43 Budney AJ, Higgins ST, Radonovich KJ, et al: Adding voucher-based incentives to coping skills and motivational enhancement improves outcomes during treatment for marijuana dependence. J Consult Clin Psychol 68(6):1051-1061, 2000.

meditraitor

ronanp wrote:

I love these debates, mostly for the over-enthusiastic participation of the ill-informed. They serve ultimately to show the common toker that the unstoned world is a very stupid place, probably best avoided and possibly best erradicated.

Remember what the doormouse said........ FEED YOUR HEAD

Your the common toker alright.... paranoid

ronanp

meditraitor wrote:

Your the common toker alright.... paranoid

Hmm..think i've missed something there.

Tell me this, meditraitor. You seem to have quite strong views on this matter, and i'm not saying you're right or wrong, but i'm curious - Do you see it as the responsibility of the state to ensure that its citizens live their lives in the most efficient and productive way possible? Or is there another reason you think cannabis use should be a punishable offense?

meditraitor

ronanp wrote:

Hmm..think i've missed something there.

Tell me this, meditraitor. You seem to have quite strong views on this matter, and i'm not saying you're right or wrong, but i'm curious - Do you see it as the responsibility of the state to ensure that its citizens live their lives in the most efficient and productive way possible? Or is there another reason you think cannabis use should be a punishable offense?

I think that should be a personal matter, the government or state authorities should only only interfere if you dont take your responsabilities to the society you live in serious and set out to hurt yourself or someone else either intentional or unintentional.
That said I dont believe a person should be criminalised for using cannabis, the answer to this particular predicament is beyond me.
But I cant abide ill-informed people prattling on about how cannabis is harmless and has a positive place in society as a whole when it isn't and doesn't.

rubadub

meditraitor wrote:

Ok, legalise heroin?

you would probably be surprised at the amount of doctors who would say yes. That it does more harm being illegal than being legal.

meditraitor wrote:

but my point is that a percentage of people do take the wrong road and the fall-out for these people and their Friends/Family can do immeasurable damage.

Yes they do this with many legal substances. The hypocrisy of the drug laws upsets me more than the actual laws.

meditraitor wrote:

Now compare this to the percentage of people who over-dose on water(for example) and the fall-out associated to that....

Yes, exactly! Some substances have more potential for harm than others, thats what I hate about the current hypocritical laws.

meditraitor wrote:

Now how can we determine who should be allowed to take these substance?
because as you have said "Some people will have an adverse effect to these substances"

Well I was saying the majority of people can use these substances in moderation with no major risk to themselves or others so why ban them due to a minor % who refuse to do so. This is not the same as an adverse effect in my mind. It is over-indulgence and abuse. In drug trials drugs which cause an adverse effect in normal use to a certain % of users will be banned. This is not the same as abuse. Paracetomol is deemed not to have enough of an adverse effect on people to reason its banning, yet many people do abuse it. Water has the potential for abuse and a very small % of people have died from its abuse.

I would like to see a blanket rethink on all drugs. Do not name them by their common names to avoid preconceptions and bias. Set up a list of criteria including potential for abuse, addictiveness etc. There are studies like this done in holland and mushrooms got a very good review. One of first stricken off the list would be alcohol & nicotine.

meditraitor wrote:

That said I dont believe a person should be criminalised for using cannabis, the answer to this particular predicament is beyond me.

There must be a few other predicaments beyond you too so, such as the legality of alcohol, nicotine & caffeine.

the Pro-Dopes have not been able to get a decent argument going, for the legalisation of cannabis.......

The onus should not be on proving things OK, it should be innocent until proven guilty, the innocence in this case must be compared to other definitions of "innocent", in this case all currently legal drugs. I have never heard a decent argument for keeping cannabis illegal which was only a relatively recent event. Cannabis is not harmless, nor is any substance, it will never be proven not to be addictive, nor can or will ANY substance, addictiveness, physical and mental harm are totally moot points considering the criteria for currently legal drugs. How could you jail somebody for slapping somebody in the back if it is legal to slice their face with a stanley knife?

Like I keep saying it is the hypocrisy of the laws that annoys me. If I didnt take any drugs I would still be upset about it. If it was legal to steal cars & rob houses, but illegal to steal bikes I would have the same issue with the nonsensical illogical laws. Even though I may not partake nor agree to any theft or law allowing it.

ronanp

meditraitor wrote:

I think that should be a personal matter, the government or state authorities should only only interfere if you dont take your responsabilities to the society you live in serious and set out to hurt yourself or someone else either intentional or unintentional.

I agree significantly with that. I'd be interested, just out of curiousity, to hear what you think are the "responsibilities to the society you live in" are though.

That said I dont believe a person should be criminalised for using cannabis, the answer to this particular predicament is beyond me.
But I cant abide ill-informed people prattling on about how cannabis is harmless and has a positive place in society as a whole when it isn't and doesn't.

It clearly isn't harmless, although in the absence of specific perspective there's no such thing as harmless! To say it has a positive place in society though is surely a matter of opinion. It would be one thing to conclude that the negative outweighs the positive - some may not agree but nobody could argue with your assessment. To say it has no positive place in society though would be a matter of personal opinion - Everyone's got a different view of what is positive and negative in society. This may sound like typical neo-liberal bollocks, but, well, this is a politics board!

I will say though that many sufferers of muscular-skeletal diseases would conclude that cannabis has a positive place. Likewise im sure a lot of inner-city youth workers and drug treatment personnel might see its impact as entirely negative.

Each to his own I conclude. For what its worth, I myself am one of those "don't know the meaning of moderation" smokers that have been getting the brunt of this thread (even from my own ilk!). I know the negative aspects only too well, but still am seeing some positive ones.

meditraitor

rubadub wrote:

There must be a few other predicaments beyond you too so, such as the legality of alcohol, nicotine & caffeine.

.

and getting the knickers of a certain Laaaady in my office


Endeavour to persevere

Boggle

meditraitor wrote:

In the brain, THC connects to specific sites called cannabinoid receptors on nerve cells and influences the activity of those cells. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors; others have few or none. Many cannabinoid receptors are found in the parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thought, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement(5).

Yes... the point being?? Is this any different as to how alcohol/caffeine/any other recreational drug effects people?

The short-term effects of marijuana can include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception; difficulty in thinking and problem solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate.

Its called being stoned - not much news here...

Research findings for long-term marijuana use indicate some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs of abuse. For example, cannabinoid (THC or synthetic forms of THC) withdrawal in chronically exposed animals leads to an increase in the activation of the stress-response system(6) and changes in the activity of nerve cells containing dopamine(7). Dopamine neurons are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward, and are directly or indirectly affected by all drugs of abuse.

The key here is chronically exposed. What you are describing represents chronic abuse conditions but what you fail to provide is a yardstick by whih we can determine the magnitude of teh effects compared to, say, caffeine. (Not sure if I made my point well)

Effects on the Heart

One study has indicated that a user’s risk of heart attack more than quadruples in the first hour after smoking marijuana(8). The researchers suggest that such an effect might occur from marijuana’s effects on blood pressure and heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of blood.

I take your point but are you telling me this is a reason to ban it? In that case we should ban McDonalds.

These facts suggest that, puff for puff, smoking marijuana may increase the risk of cancer more than smoking tobacco.

If you smoked puff for puff the same amount of Mary J as cigs then you would end up a vegetable - I dont need a study to tell me this its obvious cos you'd be so stoned you couldn't move or talk!!

Students who smoke marijuana get lower grades and are less likely to graduate from high school, compared with their non-smoking peers

So your saying teenagers shouldn't smoke drugs? They shouldn't drink too... wonder does this study take into acount that most of these lads would drink also.

A study of 129 college students found that, for heavy users of marijuana (those who smoked the drug at least 27 of the preceding 30 days), critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning were significantly impaired even after they had not used the drug for at least 24 hours(28).

If I drank heavily for 27 out of 30 days then what state would I be in.

The heavy marijuana users in the study had more trouble sustaining and shifting their attention and in registering, organizing, and using information than did the study participants who had used marijuana no more than 3 of the previous 30 days. As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a reduced intellectual level all of the time.

Ever been hungover? On the bright side this suggests that after 27 days your body will recover after constant use...

Long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction for some people; that is, they use the drug compulsively even though it interferes with family, school, work, and recreational activities. Drug craving and withdrawal symptoms can make it hard for long-term marijuana smokers to stop using the drug.

Sounds like they are missing the tabacco...???

Using this analogy maybe heroin should be legalised

Classing this drug in the same league as heroin shows your naivety. (Or mine if you candisplay how heroin can be used with relative safety and without fear of recreational use damaging your life..)


Anyway, your great study shows what everyone here knows - don't abuse a substance no matter what it is. It shows that kids and pregnant people shouldn't use it. But most importantly it shows that you can stop at any time and return to full speed - even if you abuse it. Can teh same be said about many other drugs, legal or not???