Considering taking BT to court

Khannie

Short story: I've been waiting 12 weeks for EsatBT to provide me with broadband. During that time I would have worked 24 days at home. My estimate is that their failure to provide timely broadband (despite saying that they would) has cost me the following:

6 euro per day petrol
3.60 toll bridge money
4 euro lunch money
2.5 hours time (conservatively, my time is worth around 20 euro per hour, so that's 50 euro).

A total of 63 euro per day x 2 (per week) x 10 weeks (overdue time) = 1260 euro.

If they had told me it would take 12 weeks, I would have declined their offer, but they told me it would take two weeks, so I accepted. I have since lost money as a result, so I think I've a decent case.

After the guy I was dealing with stopped returning my calls, I sent them an email today threatening legal action. I heard nothing back, so I'm now going to actually do something about it.

First off, I'm looking for legal advice. The small claims court is an obvious starting point. What are my chances of recouping some of my losses?

Also, is anyone interested in starting a class action suit? That could get some proper publicity going.

nag

had to wait 6 weeks for my bt bb connection to be reconnected after being told that it would only take 2 weeks. considering that they had all my details from before after being connected with them for over a year. they claimed that it was because there was a backlog of bb orders for the xmas period and that eircom would put the dsl on the line in my exchange when i reached the top of the queue but if they knew that there was a backlog in the first place, why the hell did they tell me that it was only going to take 2 f***in weeks??!!¬!`11

Khannie

Number of people for class action suit: 2

Keep them coming people.

paulm17781

I doubt you have any recourse what so ever. BT don't owe you money and have no contract to say you will have your BB connection in said time. Unless you can prove they have cost you money you have nothing.

eth0_

Do you have no workplace/is your home your workplace? If you have a desk in an office, then you have no case whatsoever.

Even if you work from home all the time, you haven't a hope in hell. I'm sure BT have themselves well covered in cases like these.

Also - do you have the money to spend on legal fees against BT's legal team? It isn't a simple case of taking them to the small claims court you know...

At the end of the day it's probably Eircom who are causing the delay, not BT.

whiskeyman

Don't think you have a case tbh.
No contract = no obligation to act.

Unless you have, in writing, a promise (pre-contract) whereby they state the date of commencement of the service, you'll have very little to go on.

As Etho said, it's probably Eircom that are holding things up.
It was for me anyway... Eircom engineer came on a Wednesday last summer to fix my line... I phoned them (BT) that evening to tell them and they delivered the modem package that Friday.

Khannie

I was repeatedly told that I would have broadband within 2 weeks. It's not eircoms fault. Esat have repeatedly apologised to me for their mistakes. I have outlined how it has cost me money that I wouldn't have had to pay if I went with eircom (for example). Esat said they would provide me with a service within two weeks, they (grossly) failed to do so. They offered to provide me broadband, I accepted, they failed. That failure has cost me time and money.

If it's not going to take 2 weeks, they shouldn't say it will.

Am I willing to pay to take them to court? yes.

Edit: I'm AFK now until Monday (as I have no internet access). Glad to hear all perspectives. Thanks lads.

Khannie

eth0_ wrote:

Do you have no workplace/is your home your workplace? If you have a desk in an office, then you have no case whatsoever.

Just out of interest: Why not? My office is very far away and failure to have broadband has cost me lots of money in petrol and toll bridge costs (ignoring my own time, temporarily).

whiskeyman

Khannie wrote:

I was repeatedly told that I would have broadband within 2 weeks. It's not eircoms fault. Esat have repeatedly apologised to me for their mistakes. I have outlined how it has cost me money that I wouldn't have had to pay if I went with eircom (for example). Esat said they would provide me with a service within two weeks, they (grossly) failed to do so. They offered to provide me broadband, I accepted, they failed. That failure has cost me time and money.

If it's not going to take 2 weeks, they shouldn't say it will.

Am I willing to pay to take them to court? yes.

Edit: I'm AFK now until Monday (as I have no internet access). Glad to hear all perspectives. Thanks lads.

If it's still only some salesperson promising you over the phone you'll have the service within 2 weeks, you just dont have a case.
You needed a written contract - nothing else simply will not do.
I know you infuriated over it, but look at it rationally.
If anything, you'll just lose more money taking the issue further.

Btw, what "mistakes" have BT apologised for?

kaizersoze

Now I'm not a solicitor so I will probably be corrected on this.
The American system of "class action" law suits is not catered for in the Irish legal system so they cannot be taken here.
Secondly, I don't think you have a case for reasons stated earlier.
Annoying as it may be for you I think you'll be wasting your time and money.

Khannie

whiskeyman wrote:

Btw, what "mistakes" have BT apologised for?

It started like this:
I phoned sales. Placed an order for phone conversion and broadband. Two weeks later I phoned back wondering why I hadn't gotten either. They had a record that I had called, but no order had been placed with eircom by them. They apologised. Hahahaha. It went downhill from there.

5 weeks and 3 days ago, I was given a direct line number. I was told that I would have broadband within 2+ 7 to 10 working days (9-11 in total). Here I am 25 working days later (accounting for christmas and the new year holidays). I've only phoned the direct line a few times. As of Wednesday, the guy stopped returning my phone calls.

nag

if any of these types of stories were to be made public though, it might start a change and show up the irish bb system for the shambles that it is

LegacyUser

TBH - I don't think you have a case. Had they started billing you for the service? If you look at their terms of service (which I have to scrutinise before) .. they state really clearly that they will not be held responsible if they do not provide the service by any particular date. You signed this contract when you ordered. Check it out.

Khannie

bubby wrote:

You signed this contract when you ordered. Check it out.

That doesn't sound too good. I didn't sign anything though. They are providing me with telephone services. My broadband modem eventually arrived on the 10th of January. I have been testing the line every day since I got it.

nag

bubby wrote:

.. they state really clearly that they will not be held responsible if they do not provide the service by any particular date. You signed this contract when you ordered. Check it out.

i didnt sign jack sh1t

LegacyUser

nag wrote:

i didnt sign jack sh1t

How did you order broadband? If you sign up online there is a tick box to check. If you signed up over the phone, and a rep didn't advise, then you have a case.

To the original poster. I had the exact same problem as you actually.
I ordered online 12th December - modem arrived 23rd December - the DSL light never came on - BB wouldn't work. They tested the line several times.
Someone in customer services told me I would have to pay a cancellation fee.

I got out of it - see section 3.6 of their terms of service. They are supposed to pre-qualify the service before accepting your order. If they cannot provide the service to you, then the contract is void.

Be very very careful here mate!! I would advise cancelling the direct debit immediately - as they have probably already started taking money.

paulm17781

Khannie wrote:

Just out of interest: Why not? My office is very far away and failure to have broadband has cost me lots of money in petrol and toll bridge costs (ignoring my own time, temporarily).

I have to pay to go to work every day. As do most of us. It is not Esat's fault. Trust me you will be laughed out of court. If BT had said in writing "We guarentee you will have BB service in two weeks" you would have a case. A sales person saying it will do nothing, they are not legally obliged and they did not make you move to said distance from work that it costs so much.

Your options are wait for BB to be active or move. Either way you will not see a cent from BT.

Madong

Khannie wrote:

Short story: I've been waiting 12 weeks for EsatBT to provide me with broadband. During that time I would have worked 24 days at home. My estimate is that their failure to provide timely broadband (despite saying that they would) has cost me the following:

6 euro per day petrol
3.60 toll bridge money
4 euro lunch money
2.5 hours time (conservatively, my time is worth around 20 euro per hour, so that's 50 euro).

A total of 63 euro per day x 2 (per week) x 10 weeks (overdue time) = 1260 euro.

If they had told me it would take 12 weeks, I would have declined their offer, but they told me it would take two weeks, so I accepted. I have since lost money as a result, so I think I've a decent case.

After the guy I was dealing with stopped returning my calls, I sent them an email today threatening legal action. I heard nothing back, so I'm now going to actually do something about it.

First off, I'm looking for legal advice. The small claims court is an obvious starting point. What are my chances of recouping some of my losses?

Also, is anyone interested in starting a class action suit? That could get some proper publicity going.

Do you have a contract signed? if not I dont think you have any recourse, they can blame many "force majure" issues!

Think you don't have a case really, but I'm no solicitor.

RuggieBear

After i cancelled my UTV clicksilver trial and decided to go with BT it took 11 weeks and a day to get reconnected to Broadband!

nag

paulm17781 wrote:

Your options are wait for BB to be active or move. Either way you will not see a cent from BT.

i dont think its really a money issue for Khannie. i think he just wants to show bt up (and maybe eircom too seen as how bt rely on eircom)

paulm17781

nag wrote:

i dont think its really a money issue for Khannie. i think he just wants to show bt up (and maybe eircom too seen as how bt rely on eircom)

Doesn't matter. He legally hasn't a leg to stand on. His point could be he wants to waste his money on a courtcase, it won't get that far.

Madong

nag wrote:

i dont think its really a money issue for Khannie. i think he just wants to show bt up (and maybe eircom too seen as how bt rely on eircom)

I really dont think this would impact BT in anyway, large corporations don't really care.

rsynnott

Khannie wrote:

Number of people for class action suit: 2

Keep them coming people.

Are you... LOCAL?

We don't have class action suits in this country. Fortunately.

WizZard

If you agree to sign up for broadband over the phone, it's supposed to be legally binding. I don't see why it shouldn't work the other way?

I don't see you getting money from them - perhaps free service for a while. But I'd like to see you go ahead with it anyway. It'd be nice to get press on the matter too. Seek the advice of a brave solicitor first, though.

skyhighflyer

Khannie, don't waste any more of your time trying to pursue an unmeritorious action.

If you have no contract, you have no case. Even if you do have a contract (which on the facts seems doubtful) I'm sure BT's lawyers had the foresight to include exemption clauses which they will be able to use to escape liability if an action is taken against them.

Your only other possible action would be in negligence, i.e in claiming that in neglecting to provide you with broadband service in a reasonably timely and efficient manner (as they promised to you) you suffered the economic loss detailed above. Unfortunately for you, you would have in my opinion insurmountable burdens in proving that BT owed you a duty to do so in this case. Further, as in most common law jurisdictions, even if a duty was established, the type of damage you suffered (i.e economic loss unaccompanied by damage to either person or property) is damage of a type which is generally not compensated in the Irish courts.

Although I would point out that class actions of sorts are permitted within the Irish legal system (see for example Bloomer and others v The Law Society of Ireland), that's of no relevance in my opinion to this case.

I'd pursue other avenues of getting what I wanted from BT.. for example Liveline or the director of consumer affairs but I don't think the courts can help you out here.

LegacyUser

Terms and Conditions:

"3.11 BT will use its reasonable efforts to install the Service by the date that it agrees with the Customer, but all dates are estimates only and BT cannot guarantee that it will meet such dates."

nag

WizZard wrote:

If you agree to sign up for broadband over the phone, it's supposed to be legally binding. I don't see why it shouldn't work the other way?

i was just about to post that too. even if i did say that i agree to their conditions over the phone (which im almost positive that i didnt -- and how can you agree to something that isnt read to you over the phone anyway?!) why cant i hold them at their word then too?!

skyhighflyer wrote:

I'd pursue other avenues of getting what I wanted from BT.. for example Liveline or the director of consumer affairs but I don't think the courts can help you out here.

that might actually be a better idea alright

Adeptus Titanicus

Hey Khannie, After I moved arounf April last year I decided to go with BT as Eircom were messing me about in transferring account. Anyway, I got the usual it'll be ready in 4 weeks, but in the end it was 10 weeks before I got a live BB connection in the house. Well actually, I did have a live connection for a day with Eircom, but that's not important.

BT even billed me for about three weeks worth of BB service when there wasn't even a service. I eventually got it back, but not before they overcharged me by another €104!

It was a bloody saga dealing with them. I did get an apology from Pat McCabe after writing a letter and sending a couple of e-mails, but I never did get an explanation as to why something that should have taken 4 weeks took 10. (it also helps explain why I disappeared from the UT scene and never came back :oD ) I considered going elsewhere, but I just couldn't face the disruption and chances that I'd get shafted by yet another incompetant company.

kin9pin

Khannie wrote:

Short story: I've been waiting 12 weeks for EsatBT to provide me with broadband. During that time I would have worked 24 days at home. My estimate is that their failure to provide timely broadband (despite saying that they would) has cost me the following:

6 euro per day petrol
3.60 toll bridge money
4 euro lunch money
2.5 hours time (conservatively, my time is worth around 20 euro per hour, so that's 50 euro).

A total of 63 euro per day x 2 (per week) x 10 weeks (overdue time) = 1260 euro.

If they had told me it would take 12 weeks, I would have declined their offer, but they told me it would take two weeks, so I accepted. I have since lost money as a result, so I think I've a decent case.

After the guy I was dealing with stopped returning my calls, I sent them an email today threatening legal action. I heard nothing back, so I'm now going to actually do something about it.

First off, I'm looking for legal advice. The small claims court is an obvious starting point. What are my chances of recouping some of my losses?

Also, is anyone interested in starting a class action suit? That could get some proper publicity going.

Sorry about this, but are you saying you only ate lunch because you didn't have Broadband??

123

youre complaining about 12 weeks i ordered in december and it came in summer next year

deadl0ck

I understand why you're very mad at BT, but I don't understand why it's any fault of BT's whether you decide to work from home or not...

I just don't get this reasoning...

I was an IT contractor for years and I couldn't claim expenses for driving to and from where I was working, as under law, I can only claim for expenses when it's not my normal place of work. I argued that since I was a limited company, my normal place of work was my home, where I had my own office, but was told that my normal place of work was where my contract was at.
Therefore, I would assume your normal place of work would be considered to be at the office of your employer, not your home.

If they had told me it would take 12 weeks, I would have declined their offer, but they told me it would take two weeks, so I accepted. I have since lost money as a result, so I think I've a decent case

If you had declined their offer wouldn't you still have had to go into work seeing as you didn't have broadband ? therefore, you didn't lose any money.

I not trying to put you down - like I said, I totally unerstand why you so annoyed about this, but I honestly don't follow your reasoning at all....