Knocked off my bike

johncl

markpb wrote:

Not really. It's a he-said, she-said case where the guardai can't really do anything. At the end of the day, if it goes to court there's no evidence (except to some extent the witness) either way.

i don't accept this. a crash between two vehicles (bike/car or car/car) should be dealt with in the same manner by the gardai.

(a) if they don't take a statement there is no record of this accident so legally you will have no recourse in case it has to be taken further.

(b) from the point of view of cycling advocacy, if the gardai don't record these accidents, they won't show up on road safety statistics etc, which will result in a false picture of road safety when they compile the statistics etc. and no improvements will be made to the road infrastructure. from this point of view the gardai were not doing their duty.

make sense?

Squirrel

Last two times I have been knocked off my bike, the guards have been great. I was cycling to work experience when I was taken out of it by a car. Needed two new wheels, as one of them also went straight into a tree. The gardaí came and called out a riot van and gave me a lift to a bike shop, and then went back and got the money to cover it off the woman and gave it to me in work experience. Another time I was knowcked off and the gardaí saw it, the guy refused to accept responsibility but they sorted it all, there was no damage that time though

TempestSabre

johncl wrote:

i don't accept this. a crash between two vehicles (bike/car or car/car) should be dealt with in the same manner by the gardai.
...

In my experience they'll do nothing about that either.

I'm glad some of you have had some satisfaction from the guards in these situations, at least the're not ALL totally useless.

Mucco

Just a word of advice, keep a copy of all the paperwork. I have a friend who got knocked off and injured. The gardai lost all the witness statements.....

M

youcancallmeal

Between college and work I've been cycling in and out of town for the last 6years. I've had a lot of near misses but the worst accident I've ever had is pretty much what happened to you except it happened in my own estate of all places. I was coming home one night and was only around 100 yards from my own house, A guy who lives a few doors down from me was sitting in his car lights off talking on the phone or something. Out of nowhere drivers side door swings open and next thing I know I'm on the ground. Basically my chest took the full force of the impact, I'm a fairly big guy at 6'4" and I pretty much took this guys door of its hinges. He was very apologetic and we both kind of agreed it was an accident and we would leave it at that. About a week later I had to go to the hospital because I was still having really sharp pains in my chest. One x-ray later and they said I had a bruised sternum for which there was nothing they could do only give me some ointment. It still hurts on a cold morning .

Altogether it cost me about 150euro for a new wheel and a chest x-ray/ointment. I met the guy a few weeks after it happened and he proceeded to tell me that he had to get his door and front right panel replaced which cost 1500euro as if I should be the one paying for it??? I didnt get into an arguement with him but normally in this situation as long as I wasn’t in the wrong I would be the one looking for costs. He's my neighbour so I just left it be happy in the knowledge his mistake cost him quite a lot.

I also like to think we both learnt something from this, for him to always check the side mirror before opening your door and me to be more observant/careful. Nowadays I kind of have a fear of cycling close beside stationary cars. Moving through traffic I always keep a close eye if theres a person in the passenger seat and adjust my speed accordingly. Strange thing about these kind of incidents is that if the guy had opened the door 5 seconds earlier or later then the whole thing could of been avoided.

I hope you get your case resolved satisfactorily Improv. It’s a crappy situation but as far as your circumstances go it would appear the driver of the car was in the wrong. All you have to do now is find him.

impr0v

Update on this.

I went back to the Gardaí and left a statement with them and asked them to follow it up. There was a delay at that point, as the Garda I had originally dealt with wasn't back on shift for four days. She rang me when she did go back on duty and said she'd try to get in contact with the guy, and if necessary take official statements from both of us, but to leave it with her.

Two days later she rang back and said she had located the car driver, and that he had asked her to pass his number on to me, which she did - completely different number than the one he gave me at scene. She suggested we try and reach an agreement, and if we couldn't she'd progress it. I rang that day and left a message on voicemail, and did the same again yesterday morning.

He rang back yesterday afternoon and apologised for the delay in getting back to me. It seemed to me that he made a point of clearly asking how I was. I said that I was ok, but that my bike wasn't. I outlined the cost of a replacement and why replacing the parts, as well as the frame, would cost as much, if not more. He expressed disbelief at the cost of the bike saying that a few of his friends were 'big into' their cycling and had gotten 'top of the range' bikes for a lot less than 630. I offered to give him the contact details for the Cycle Superstore, and to show him the estimate they had prepared for me, but he said he'd take my word for it. I also informed him about the call-out fee for the medical check-up.

He then said he'd speak to his insurance and get back to me, which he did today. He wanted to meet to 'fix up' with me next week, but I'm out of the country, so we're doing it the week after. Hopefully all will be straightforward and I can get a replacement bike with the money (will probably add some to it and trade up) and forget this happened, aside from the lessons to be learned obviously.

Thanks for all the support and advice in this thread.

eth0_

If I was driving my car down a road with parked cars along the side of the road and someone opened their door and I hit their door, it would be my fault because I was not driving with adequate space between my car and the parked cars.

Why is being on a bike any different, or is it? I don't think it's at all fair hitting the car driver for the full cost of the bike.

alantc

eth0_ wrote:

If I was driving my car down a road with parked cars along the side of the road and someone opened their door and I hit their door, it would be my fault because I was not driving with adequate space between my car and the parked cars.

Why is being on a bike any different, or is it? I don't think it's at all fair hitting the car driver for the full cost of the bike.

READ THE ****1NG THREAD

celt2005

Eth0,

Cars have to be 18 " away from parked cars, Bikes do not have the Luxury ....., try to cycle in the middle of the road in traffic.

It is drivers fault, he should check in side mirror before opening door, too many morons asleep in cars these days ...

impr0v

eth0_ wrote:

If I was driving my car down a road with parked cars along the side of the road and someone opened their door and I hit their door, it would be my fault because I was not driving with adequate space between my car and the parked cars.

Why is being on a bike any different, or is it? I don't think it's at all fair hitting the car driver for the full cost of the bike.

Every road users owes a duty of care to other road users, this effectively means they are bound to take certain steps so as to avoid causing injury to other road users and/or damage to their property. The duty is especially acute where the risk of injury is high. Therefore I for example, as a cyclist, am bound to take care that I don't damage cars, but I'm bound to take special care that my actions aren't endangering pedestrians. If I was to cycle at speed down a footpath with no lights in an unlit area, this would be an extreme example of negligence in respect of that duty of care. Similarly, car drivers, given their potential to injure pedestrians and cyclists, have a higher duty of care towards them. To open one's door suddenly, without looking, into a cycle lane during rush hour undoubtedly carries an inherent risk, as the action should be carried out with care. Indeed the car driver in this particular case admitted he was cognisant of the risk by stating that he did check, but he then went back to adjust his radio, before opening the door without sufficient care. He therefore, in my opinion, acted recklessly and negligently and thereby caused the damage to my property.

Your statement implies that I was similarly negligent by not maintaining a safe distance from his car.

The safe distance theory makes perfect sense. However, if you've cycled around the city for any length of time you'll know it's practically impossible to maintain all the time, without compromising your safety in other ways.

When the accident occurred I was in a cycle lane at peak traffic, a cycle lane which is also designated for use by taxi's and buses, and had just left a junction where it can be used by ordinary motorists too, to avoid right turning traffic. If I block that lane by staying 5 feet out into it, i.e. in the middle of it, I render it next to useless for other traffic. This is notionally fine, as I think the traffic planners have given me authority to do so by designating it a cycle/bus lane. However, in practical terms it means I will be constantly endangered by impatient vehicular traffic trying to get past me while the main traffic lane is also full.

In reality, the danger of cycling closer, i.e. within two feet or so, to parked vehicles, and thereby letting other traffic have the use of the majority of the lane, is less than the danger of being clipped by wing mirrors, or being simply knocked down in the above scenario. With good observation it is possible to avoid the majority of situations arising, but due to darkness, motorists sitting in cars with no interior lights on, a lack of line of sight, bad cycle lane and/or parking spot siting, one sometimes has no choice but to place a degree of faith in car drivers that they will check their mirrors before throwing their doors open.

TempestSabre

celt2005 wrote:

Eth0,

Cars have to be 18 " away from parked cars, Bikes do not have the Luxury ....., try to cycle in the middle of the road in traffic.

It is drivers fault, he should check in side mirror before opening door, too many morons asleep in cars these days ...

18" thats impossible in car on some roads. If hes asleep there wouldn't be a problem would there...:)

Gegerty

Sue him. His insurance will cover it. If he did that and his door hit a passing car causing damage they'd be exchanging insurance details and there'd be damages paid. You don't have to keep a safe distance, most roads that would mean cycling/driving in the middle of the road which is ridiculous.

daymobrew

Gegerty wrote:

You don't have to keep a safe distance, most roads that would mean cycling/driving in the middle of the road which is ridiculous.

I was thinking this last night as I cycled past loads of parked cars along Fassaugh Ave in Cabra. It was very difficult to see if anyone was in the cars.
I passed one car and did see someone about to get out - there was no interior light. As Gegerty says, to keep a safe distance would have meant cycling in the middle of the road. There are plenty of drivers on that road that don't want to give a cyclist even a few inches, never mind enough to avoid a car door.

At the Phibsborough end of that road (Connaught St) there is barely enough space for two cars to pass, never mind 2 cars plus a cyclist. Oncoming cars often move out a good bit from the parked cars (which are on both sides), so much so that it feels like they are heading right at you.

So, cycling beyond the reach of a car door is rarely possible.

tywy

Sorry to hear about your accident! Hope you are feeling okay.
I cycle from Terenure into town twice a week to college. (I'm sometimes in Belfield sometimes in town.) It is unbelievably dangerous. Terenure Road West is a death trap. Cars pulling in and out to let kids out, kids opening doors with no warning. Plus there isn't enough room to cycle on the frikin road anyway. I've seen cyclist run into opened doors at least 3 times. I've seen many more near misses.

I got sick of the bus about 2 months into first year. So I decided cycling was the best option. My mom was a bit nervous...but I was like screw it I'm not sitting on a bus for an hour. Anyway, my second day cycling, I'm cycling down Rathgar Road...fairly slick morning, this car comes out off a side road in front of me, I didn't have to break because I wasn't goin fast enough but there was a motorcycle behind me. He had to jam on the brakes and his back wheel locked. He came off his bike and the motorcycle when flying down the road (sparks flying) and clipped my back wheel. I was creamed! took it all in my shoulder and hip. Luckily was just badly bruised. Bike was perfect my dad cycled it home. Such a freak accident but the guy in the car gave a fake name to the Gardai so there was loads of follow up ****...

I feel your pain improv, all you can do is stand on the side of the road and think about what happened while all these strangers come up to see if you are ok. I remember holding it together for about 5 mins before bursting into tears.

The Gardai were great tho I have to say!

impr0v

Just to close the story, I got paid in full by bank draft yesterday, €630 for a replacement bike and €65 for the doctors call out fee. His insurance company gave him a waiver for me to sign stating that the payment was in full satisfaction of any current or future claims arising from the incident. Theoretically I should have got X-rays to ensure there is no lasting damage, as my chest was very sore to the touch in a certain spot on the bone up until last week, but I think the chances are it'll be ok.

The Gardaí rang me with a follow up call last week to see how things were progressing. Generally they have been very helpful throughout.

When giving me the draft he stated that it was an expensive mistake, the door of his car had to be replaced, and cost him €1500. We shook hands and wished each other the best, etc.

TempestSabre

I think you've met a very rare breed of Garda.