Season 2, episode 13: "Epiphanies"

Fenster

Not much smart to say tonight

cregser

Ah they bottled it!

They couldn't kill Roselin off. I thought about half way through the episode that they were killing off a fairly major character. I was thinking fair balls to them for giving cancer to the president. I wanted to see how they took it from there. Who would be the new power hungry upstart? Her young presidential aid? But in the end, they bottled it.

After the last two episodes, this one had a tough act to follow. Felt like a filler episode.

mewso

I thought it was excellent, nice ending too. I don't think they bottled it I think it's more interesting to have cylon/human blood in the pres. Be interesting where they might go with that one. Also a nice hint that Baltar might be in trouble again with the pres remembering seeing him with six. Anyway next weeks episode looks far more like filler but might be good filler with a bit of luck.

Haruspex

Excellent episode and I can't agree that they bottled it or that it was a filler. No one likes miracle cures (see Scully in the X-Files as an example) and given Roslin's exploits concerning Kobol earlier, they could probably have gone down the religious route. However this "deus ex machina" was rooted in a (BSG-verse) scientific solution. Sure it was last minute but, hey, this is dramatic, episodic television. She didn't exactly spring out of bed once she received the transfusion either.

For me a lot of the episode dealt with Baltar's machinations. I loved the tension between Baltar and Adama especially. He clearly sees him as a necessary evil. Gaius tries for redemption by saving Roslin but falls to even further extremes by handing over the nuke to Gina and the Cylon Sympathisers. He is certainly developing darker hues this season than last.

This was no filler flashback to Caprica either. Not only did it reveal Roslin's "business and pleasure" relationship with President Adar, but the backstory of the unrest amongst the teachers, showed her resolve and potential leadership qualities emerging. Seeing Baltar and Six carry on in the distance was a brilliant device. I was shocked that the writers made this part of her recollection as it introduces another dimension to the President/Vice-President fencing.

The continuity was great as usual - the reference to Apollo's "space walk" from last week was made and he does indeed seem not to be his old self. (Looks like this will be developed further in "Black Market" next week.) I'm glad they quickly revealed Gina's hiding place on Cloud Nine and the pivotal role she now has amongst the Sympathisers.

Some interesting plot lines have been set up in this episode and it'll probably set the tone for the rest of the season...

Rosser

This episode seems to be taking some flak on some US based boards but having seen it I think it was pretty good - not Kobol's Gleeming good but good none the less.

As a tv show it's so far ahead of anything else currently on!

Fenster

The acting carried this episode, easily. Laura's reaction when she woke and found Baltar standing over her was magnificent.

spooydermot

I kind of felt that they bottled it a little bit to be honest, but that said i think Roslin is a great character and the show would suffer from her absense, i'd definatly have to agree that there are some interesting new arcs to explore that were launched from this ep. The whole thing with terminating Sharons baby was fairly heavy to be honest..that bit where she's smacking her head into the glass was fairly harsh too..

interesting the way there was no (significant) mention of the Pegasus in this one.

Is Starbuck still on the Pegasus and was the viper pilot who was giving her lip at the beginning of the episode also from the pegasus? (i assume so..)

mewso

spooydermot wrote:

was the viper pilot who was giving her lip at the beginning of the episode also from the pegasus? (i assume so..)

That was Kat who is on the Galactica. She was one of the original pilots trained by Starbuck when they were short and the one who had trouble landing her fighter, was stressed on dodgy tabs in the documentary episode etc.

MisterAnarchy

My God that episode was so good !!!
Baltar is such a great character.
One of the best episodes ever .

Vokes

Nothing else to add. Good episode. Sharon smacking her head off the foor was a bit gruesome

Really looking foward to next week. Looks like lots of character development and screen time for Apollo.

Stark

Not a bad episode at all. When I first read the synopsis I was thinking "Oh no, looks like another Tom Zarek" episode but thankfully they didn't go down that route. Nor did it feel like "different radicals, same plot". We got to see some movement on the plot threads that have been plauging us this week. Sharon's baby sounds a bit Starchildlish, but meh, hopefully they'll do good by that.

iguana

Did anyone else catch the start of what appeared to be an anti-abortion advert about 2/3's of the way through the episode? It seemed a bit weird.

Really interesting episode, I love how it always manages to surprise, yet still follow it's continuity.

Was really surprised to see Six-in-Baltar's-head, thought she'd be gone for at least a couple of weeks (although she was gone, we just didn't see those weeks). The scene where she grabs him by the tie was so well choreographed. Looking forward to seeing how the rest of the series will progress.

I really enjoyed how this episode cast life on the colonies in a much more sinister light. At the beginning of BSG the colonies look like a nice place full of people with material wealth and comfortable lifestyles. Then early in the 1st series we learn that the other colonies have an expoltative hold on Sagetairon. And now we see evidence of underlying civil unrest and a president with totalitarian tendancies.

---

On a lighter note, this episode's revelation about Roslin and Adar's affair casts a completely different light on her previous comparison's between him and Billy!

Cina

I liked the episode. I don't see it as them bottling it, it was obvious that they were never going to kill off the Pres, she's just too important. I liked the way they handled it. Obviously it wasn't as good as the last 2 episodes (i'll be surprised if anything else in this season will be!) but it was a good ep.
Also, note that about 160 days have passed now, at the end of season 1, it was about 60, so thats 100 days in the first 13 eps of series 2, I wonder how much time passed between episodes 12 and 13, must've been nearly a month?

satchmo

It'd have to be at least a month to allow for Six to get chummy with the activist leader. Although seeing as they showed the dossier of "known cylon agents", you'd think they'd have posters plastered up everywhere in the fleet ("Have You Seen This Cylon?"!) and that someone would recognise her - especially those cylon-lovers that she's in with?

Fenster

Well as Tricia Helfer has shown through several episodes, she can look utterly different just by changing her hair. I could've sworn it was Uma Thurman in the last episode.

Fenster

On the President not dying:

RDM has said several times that he wants to mess with people's expectations in the new Galactica, hence things like the Pegasus not being destroyed in the last episode. So what I am getting at is what if Laura is not the prophecised "dying leader?"

The Cylons believe that Baltar has a prophecised future as the leader of their children and if anyone in the fleet can, it will be Gaius who finds Earth from the vague directions they have. So what if something happens and he becomes that dying leader?

monkeyfudge

It's also been hinted at that Billy might be president some day.

JimmySmith

Fenster wrote:

On the President not dying:
So what I am getting at is what if Laura is not the prophecised "dying leader?"

I think she is. Her heart stopped in this episode and she did indeed die.

It was imnportant for this to happen for the prophecy storyline.

Goodshape

Grand episode. Not great, but I suppose necessary storywise.

Kind of annoyed me with the "we'll abort the baby -- oh no we wont" "presidents going to die -- oh no she isn't" "baltars sorted his aligenence -- oh no he hasn't", and we're back to square one.

Plus the resistence poping up from nowhere.. I think they glossed over an awful lot by having it (seemingly) a few weeks later. And no mention of Six, whom they know is roaming about somewhere. Strange.

Still, grand overall. Just nowhere near as good as the last few. Which would have been hard I guess.

Peace

Goodshape wrote:

Grand episode. Not great, but I suppose necessary storywise.

Kind of annoyed me with the "we'll abort the baby -- oh no we wont" "presidents going to die -- oh no she isn't" "baltars sorted his aligenence -- oh no he hasn't", and we're back to square one.

Plus the resistence poping up from nowhere.. I think they glossed over an awful lot by having it (seemingly) a few weeks later. And no mention of Six, whom they know is roaming about somewhere. Strange.

Still, grand overall. Just nowhere near as good as the last few. Which would have been hard I guess.

Indeed, its one thing not to do a fleet wide search when you are not sure if there's a cylon in your fleet. But when you know there's one int he fleet and one that assinated an Admiral then Adama should be going door to door!

But in fairness, they know she dissappeared while being followed by a marine detachment onboard Galactica so maybe they viewed a fleet wide search a waste of resources.

Baltar giving the nuke to the cylon, eh wtf like?

Johnny Storm

Quite a good episode IMHO. As usual not much to add to earlier posts.
But I hope the writers aren't just winging it with Balthar. IE in earlier eps he seemed to have given his allegiance to the Cylons, then he decides to save El Prez and gives his little speech "you don't know who I am, I wont betray humanity", then he sends a nuke to a Cylon. Does this make any sense?
Possibly he has "adjusted" the nuke so that he can detonate it remotely?
I preferred Balthar when he was a more humourous character. I thing BSG could do with a bit more humour these days. Also I would like to see Tigh back to ass-kicking ways.

Nukem

Excuse the nerdiness but dont the fleet have a Nuke detector (no pun included)............and sympathizer's????......com'on lame or what.

Storyline was 50/50 with some good acting. Thought the thing about the baby been the answer to all cures was fairly cool. Dammed if we do,damned if we dont, sorta thing - as said good Ep.

Nukem

Stark

Fenster wrote:

Well as Tricia Helfer has shown through several episodes, she can look utterly different just by changing her hair. I could've sworn it was Uma Thurman in the last episode.

She looked like Starbuck at one point.

User45701

iguana wrote:

Did anyone else catch the start of what appeared to be an anti-abortion advert about 2/3's of the way through the episode? It seemed a bit weird.

Ye i got that aswell i thought this was a amazing episode BSG is such a great show i love the realasim because i mean comeon the happy pease i n star trek does get a bit of a bore.

Nuttzz

they can detect a nuke on a raider heading for BSG but cant detect one on a shuttle

/me screams radiological alarm!!!!

ButcherOfNog

Nuttzz wrote:

they can detect a nuke on a raider heading for BSG but cant detect one on a shuttle

/me screams radiological alarm!!!!

They ain't looking for a nuke on a shuttle going away from the galactica.

Peace

Nuttzz wrote:

they can detect a nuke on a raider heading for BSG but cant detect one on a shuttle

/me screams radiological alarm!!!!

I don't think the writers would make such a moronic mistake. My guess is that the radiologival alarm will only detect armed nukes. When the alarm sounded off before it was alway when a rader was belting at them about to fire, and therefore would have armed the weapon.

AnCapaillMor

thought it was great, thought they'd do an SG one and have a filler episode, this how just keeps getting better and better.


Something thats bugging me

is the cylon their equivalent of Clark Kent, put on glasses and she's unrecognisable as her other persona

Stark

I don't think it was a "Clark Kent" thing.

I think it was either:

a) The picture of Shelly Godfrey hadn't been distributed to the fleet.
b) The hippies knew she was a cylon. In fact, the recent attacks could have been provoked by news of her treatment on Pegasus.

satchmo

They definitely don't know she's a cylon, when Baltar asked her she replied something like "no, their dedication only goes so far". And how could they not have distributed pictures of every cylon model? With almost 50,000 people in the fleet, that would be their best bet of detecting any more sleepers!

AnCapaillMor

I can understand them trying to hide the fact that cylons can be amongst them, but surely she would've come across some military personal on her escapre of pegasus.

Nuttzz

Peace wrote:

I don't think the writers would make such a moronic mistake. My guess is that the radiologival alarm will only detect armed nukes. When the alarm sounded off before it was alway when a rader was belting at them about to fire, and therefore would have armed the weapon.

true, but considering Adama give baltar one of his few remaining nukes you think he might have made sure the location it was in was secure at all times and that one person wouldnt have access to it on their own at any time?

madrab

well i nearly didnt recognise her at first

one wears curly blond hair & provocative dresses (& is insanely hot)
the other wears baggy clothes, tighed back hair & glasses (& is insanely hot)

perhaps if i was bsg's hotness detector my alarms would have been set off

BOHSBOHS

1. why have pics of known cylons not been broadcast to fleet
2. how has "gina" set up a resistance group so quickly?
3. how did baltar get gina past all the guards in the pegasus brig?
and why he not yet been questioned over the escape?
4. how did she get off the pegasus, a military vessel?
5. how did baltar transport the nuke from BSG to BSP? where are the radiological alarms there always banging on about ? if the nukes used ,wont they trace it back to him?
(they dont have too many nukes!!)
6. does no one on galactica think baltar talking to himself all the time is wrong?

so im guessing the president now knows baltar is a cylon helper???
but dont worry next week roslin will suffer "convenient amnesia" as a side effect of her cancer treatment in another handy plot resolution.

also the nuke will be a handy way of disposing of the pegasus and the galactica crew will be relieved that they dont have to mention "blah blah from/of the pegasus" every ten minutes .....and its revealed that roslin's "convenient amnesia" is contagious and has spread to adama
causing him to forget baltar ever had a nuke .....

ps where are the real cylons , you know the chrome toaster models? having human cylons all the time of course is cheaper to make ... but i doubt number 6 in a tin can suit with wavey red eye and saying by your command .. would give half as many sci fi nerds "wrist strain"

madrab

BOHSBOHS wrote:

1. why have pics of known cylons not been broadcast to fleet
2. how has "gina" set up a resistance group so quickly?
3. how did baltar get gina past all the guards in the pegasus brig?
and why he not yet been questioned over the escape?
4. how did she get off the pegasus, a military vessel?
5. how did baltar transport the nuke from BSG to BSP? where are the radiological alarms there always banging on about ? if the nukes used ,wont they trace it back to him?
(they dont have too many nukes!!)
6. does no one on galactica think baltar talking to himself all the time is wrong?

so im guessing the president now knows baltar is a cylon helper???
but dont worry next week roslin will suffer "convenient amnesia" as a side effect of her cancer treatment in another handy plot resolution.

also the nuke will be a handy way of disposing of the pegasus and the galactica crew will be relieved that they dont have to mention "blah blah from/of the pegasus" every ten minutes .....and its revealed that roslin's "convenient amnesia" is contagious and has spread to adama
causing him to forget baltar ever had a nuke .....

ps where are the real cylons , you know the chrome toaster models? having human cylons all the time of course is cheaper to make ... but i doubt number 6 in a tin can suit with wavey red eye and saying by your command .. would give half as many sci fi nerds "wrist strain"

anything you do like about the show?

Johnny Storm

madrab wrote:

anything you do like about the show?

In fairness, he is asking some relevant questions and he obviously does like the show or he wouldn't go to the bother of typing all that out. Or maybe the typing helps to relieve the wrist strain? :v: :v: :v: :v:

youcancallmeal

A lot of plotholes(some of which are being dug deeper) but a good episode none the less.

madrab

Johnny Storm wrote:

In fairness, he is asking some relevant questions and he obviously does like the show or he wouldn't go to the bother of typing all that out. Or maybe the typing helps to relieve the wrist strain? :v: :v: :v: :v:

oops meant to put in a sarcastic smiley


ahh well

:rolleyes: :mad: :eek: :cool: :v:

Johnny Storm

madrab wrote:

oops meant to put in a sarcastic smiley


ahh well

:rolleyes: :mad: :eek: :cool: :v:

Sorry, dude, I should have known. :cool:

Jack B. Badd

Absolutely love BSG and was pretty disappointed when I saw this episode last night. Thought Roslin's "miracle cure" was a total cop out & raises some strange questions as regards the prophecy. It was also pretty obvious from the outset that the abortion wasn't going to take place despite Roslin's plans. Also I totally agree about the lack of searching for the number 6 model...that just didn't make any sense! I just wasn't overly happy with this episode. But I have faith; roll on next week's episode!

OSiriS

Why do people think it is a cop out? You do realise that story lines for shows like this tend to be planned well in advance, so it is likely that they never intended to kill her off. It was probably a device to develop an attachment for her and develop the story along certain lines.

Jack B. Badd

Even if they never actually intended to kill Roslin off, the whole miracle cure was a bit too easy. We had two and a half seasons of her dying and then suddenly (and with a snap of their fingers) they decide she's not going to die after all and to be fair there was very little effort put into the saving of her. I'm reckoning on a twist resulting from it though.

Dunners

Jack B. Bad wrote:

the whole miracle cure was a bit too easy

I don't think it will turn out to be as 'easy' as alot of people seem to think. If Roslin goes into religious crazy fever mode again or starts making a few interesting choices what's to stop Adama & co from saying she's being affected by the Cylons through the blood in here system. Might even be a mechanism for Baltar to try and seize power.

As for six, even with the glasses off she did look completely different with her tied back. Also didn't they say in an ealier episode/mini-series that they weren't going to distribute the photos of Cylons to the fleet lest it invites panic and vigilante attacks on anyone acting 'suspiciously'?

The only thing that did get me with this episode was the nuke thing, I can see it being smuggled off Galactica but surely they would know about it within a week at the most. I can't see Adama leaving Baltar with a nuke and not having it double checked at least weekly. How is Baltar going to explain it all away as well? Could it this be the thing that drives him into the Cylon fleet, I'm sure he was only ever in the Cylon fleet in the original though I'm open to be corrected.

They're my thoughts anyway!

Jack B. Badd

Dunners wrote:

I don't think it will turn out to be as 'easy' as alot of people seem to think. If Roslin goes into religious crazy fever mode again or starts making a few interesting choices what's to stop Adama & co from saying she's being affected by the Cylons through the blood in here system. Might even be a mechanism for Baltar to try and seize power.

I totally agree with you. Thats what I meant by hoping that a twist in the plot would arise from Roslin's cure. I'm just not entirely sure that it'll happen and if it doesn't I'll be disappointed.