1 year *Whine*

abccormac

sunzz wrote:

Any way I'd love to see a 1v1 system and a ladder in place with it. Maybe every night a certain amount of places was opened and you would sign up and it would become single elim at the end of the night the winner received x amount of points and at the end of the week *after update* the weekly winner + the runner ups would get some sort of well rewarded prize.

However in order for it to be fair you would perhaps have to base it on a level + items terms?

Some class matchups just don't work 1v1 though. A warlock should slaughter a mage, warriors should tear rogues apart, etc. There are a lot of matchups where regardless of player skill, one class simply should never lose.
Again, it all comes down to the PVE focus of the game. You hardly ever see people complaining about their class in PVE, most of the whines about classes needing buffs or nerfs relate almost solely to PVP. Personally, when I was playing, my main focus was always PVE, so it never really bothered me that much that PVP was the poor relation, but that is where nearly all of the complaining about class balance comes from.

Since they buffed the tier 2 caster sets in the last patch, I can't understand why anyone would go for rank 14 now. From my point of view as someone who played a warlock, nemesis is better than the rank 14 armour, and the staff isn't as good as staff of the shadow flame, or the new AQ quest weapon with the AV offhand. The same applies to warriors, with askhandi being better than the rank 14 2 handers. Whats the point of going after rank 14 when getting the PVE stuff is less of a grind and gives you better rewards?

Caliden

i think mages are broke atm.
i can kill shamans with 2 spells now :O














once every 3 minutes that is

BloodBath

I'm in the same boat caliden, and that's providing some other twat doesn't interupt you. You nova, silence the shammy, lining up a frostbolt, pom frostbolt, then you get hit by something, slowing your cast enough for silence to wear off, he earth shocks you and your nuke is gone. Then it's gg. It really isn't fun to be a mage anymore.

Caliden

i dont understand why casters can be interrupted during spellcasts.
i mean melee arent affected in any way by something similar.

World of Meleecraft.....

abccormac

Caliden wrote:

i dont understand why casters can be interrupted during spellcasts.
i mean melee arent affected in any way by something similar.

World of Meleecraft.....

If you're a mage you can frost nova then blink out of range, if you're a warlock you can fear, deathcoil or seduce, if you're a priest you have fear. All casters have ways to keep away from melee and stop them doing any damage at all.

The problems mages are having with melee are nothing to do with individual class abilities, it is almost entirely down to poor itemization, and melee classes getting stronger every time new weapons come out.
You said yourself you can kill shamans in a few hits when both trinkets are up, implying that you cant kill them at all the rest of the time, do you think that's balanced?
The same is true for melee classes, a warrior with askhandi, and good DPS plate can two or three shot any cloth warrior, a warrior in valour with an arcanite reaper will get slaughtered by a well geared caster. The game revolves around PVE loot. That PVE loot makes fair competitive PVP an impossibility for many players.

Drakar

abccormac wrote:

... All casters have ways to keep away from melee and stop them doing any damage at all.

*cough*

abccormac

Drakar wrote:

*cough*

You have an AOE fear! Granted, it has a cooldown and every ****er can breeak it, but still, it is a way to get them off you.;) And again, the problems with that are itemisation problems. Giving everyone a trinket to breal out a classes only method of defence isn't a good idea.

Caliden

drakar you've got attack power bonus on inner fire, melee priests ftw!!..................

Jim

Caliden wrote:

i dont understand why casters can be interrupted during spellcasts.
i mean melee arent affected in any way by something similar.

World of Meleecraft.....

Think its because armor doesn't have any bearing on spell casts.
Also Dodge/Parry/Block/Miss.

Drakar

I'm not aware of any caster class that has a way to stop melee doing "any damage to them at all" :P
That being said however, I do enjoy AOE fear even if people can resist it and use items and abilities to recover. To be honest it's a little like Paladin bubble in that you can jump into a group of 5 enemies and potentially manage to run away unscathed (ok not like paladin bubble then, but it gives you a level of defiance you wouldn't have otherwise).

It will be interesting to see where Blizzard decide to take the game as competition in the market increases and existing players may begin to start getting bored with the same old grind.

DRakE

Caliden wrote:

drakar you've got attack power bonus on inner fire, melee priests ftw!!..................

Armour increase ftw!

BloodBath

And wearing cloth isn't bad enough without gimping our spells and giving 4 other classes silence abilities as well?

abccormac

The point is you can do damage from range, rogues and warriors can't, at least not to any significant degree. The fact that melee weapons have made things tough on cloth wearers doesn't change the fact that melee classes need a counter to spell casting abilities. A mage has sheep, frost nova, blink and the slowing abilities from frost spels to keep melee classes at range and do damage to them. The problems cloth wearers have are itemization problems. Not neccesarily that caster gear is crap, but that a lot of the tier two weapons are ridiculously powerful.

Thren

joe_chicken wrote:

Flightpaths are the suckiest thing about this game...

I started a flight from Darnassus to Thereamore yesterday, then I:
Brushed my teeth,
Had a shave,
Watched some tv,
Had a cup of tea,

and when I came back, the flight was STILL going...

its at least 10 minutes and takes the stupidest flight path.....

It's quicker to get the boat back from Auberdine to Menethiel and then the boat to Theramore than to take that flight plan - such a pain in the a**e! (sorry, this really really bugs me.)

Kine

Well, as another lvl 60 mage, I have found a lot of the same points that are noted here. I'm fire specced, simply due to the fact that I WILL NOT go frost just because Blizzard are forcing me too. My main complaint is that if we are the easiest to kill (health/armour wise) we should technically be able to do the most damage, but I am constantly out DPS by rogues and hunters. Now, i love my mage, and I'm fairly decent specced (pretty much tier 1 set) but i sure as hell cannot not 1337 gamer it up to get the next tier sets too quickly. Either way, I enjoy it in the end, so i'll keep throwing fireballs away..

Jim

Kine wrote:

Well, as another lvl 60 mage, I have found a lot of the same points that are noted here. I'm fire specced, simply due to the fact that I WILL NOT go frost just because Blizzard are forcing me too. My main complaint is that if we are the easiest to kill (health/armour wise) we should technically be able to do the most damage, but I am constantly out DPS by rogues and hunters. Now, i love my mage, and I'm fairly decent specced (pretty much tier 1 set) but i sure as hell cannot not 1337 gamer it up to get the next tier sets too quickly. Either way, I enjoy it in the end, so i'll keep throwing fireballs away..

I agree with you that mage's have the least surviability. As a rogue in battlegrouds I always go for mages first. However being able to blink out of stun and have an AE trap is extremly usefull. If a rogue gets the jump on a mage = mage dead, if the mage gets the jump on the rogue = rogue dead from what I've seen.

Also about damage, afaik the mage is mostly about burst damage at high end. Yes you will get out dps'd by rogues (everyone does, bar hunters....and druids (but we don't like to talk about the druids). If mage's have +dmg gear on, espically +dmg trinkets you can crit for stupid amounts. 3700 frost bolt crit HURTS.

Maximilian

Jim, I was doing my damn best to kill you last night in WSG. If you were thinking "WTF is that mage's problem?", now you know.

Jim

Maximilian wrote:

Jim, I was doing my damn best to kill you last night in WSG. If you were thinking "WTF is that mage's problem?", now you know.

Heh, whats your toon's name?

BloodBath

Well, as another lvl 60 mage, I have found a lot of the same points that are noted here. I'm fire specced, simply due to the fact that I WILL NOT go frost just because Blizzard are forcing me too. My main complaint is that if we are the easiest to kill (health/armour wise) we should technically be able to do the most damage, but I am constantly out DPS by rogues and hunters. Now, i love my mage, and I'm fairly decent specced (pretty much tier 1 set) but i sure as hell cannot not 1337 gamer it up to get the next tier sets too quickly. Either way, I enjoy it in the end, so i'll keep throwing fireballs away..

Tier 1? As in arcanist? So you do mc with a fire spec and you wear gear that gives + damage to frost? And you're surprised hunters and rogues do more damage?

I agree with you that mage's have the least surviability. As a rogue in battlegrouds I always go for mages first. However being able to blink out of stun and have an AE trap is extremly usefull. If a rogue gets the jump on a mage = mage dead, if the mage gets the jump on the rogue = rogue dead from what I've seen.

Rogue's 1v1 aren't tough even if they do get the ambush. Just keep a mana shield up at all times so if 1 does jump you he isn't going to eat to much of your hp. Instant blink, he vanishes, perception or arcane explosion spam. He will probably get a gouge or stun off. Iceblock if necessary. Release, frost nova, pom fireball = 8 second dot = dead rogue. Just kite ftw then. This is with arcane/frost ofc.

Bartonprince

Horsefumbler wrote:

This is my only gripe with the game at the moment too. I'm a druid myself and I'd much rather go feral at the moment, I could have way more fun in this spec.

I have heard though that will be mobs in AQ that will have to be tanked by a bear as opposed to a humanoid, hopefully this is the case and i can use this an excuse to go feral:D

With regard to the game being a bit of an anti climax after you hit 60 - have to disagree. It changes yes but not by that much. Its just the exploring and stuff that ends. I have no alts and i only play on my druid and I'm never stuck for something to do when I loggin. Infact I never have enough time to do it.

doing what? Standing around IF? hehe

Jim

BloodBath wrote:

Rogue's 1v1 aren't tough even if they do get the ambush. Just keep a mana shield up at all times so if 1 does jump you he isn't going to eat to much of your hp. Instant blink, he vanishes, perception or arcane explosion spam. He will probably get a gouge or stun off. Iceblock if necessary. Release, frost nova, pom fireball = 8 second dot = dead rogue. Just kite ftw then. This is with arcane/frost ofc.

Indeed. I rarely rarely see Mage's use iceblock which doesn't make sense if you ask me. I also rarely see Mages blink if I ambush and with my current spec (120 energy) I can ambush, bs, evis before the Mage knows whats hit him. Blink ftw tbh. Although I love when Mages try to blink and get it wrong and end up blinking into a wall 2 yards away.

BloodBath

Although I love when Mages try to blink and get it wrong and end up blinking into a wall 2 yards away.

That can happen even when there is nothing blocking the way or you blink in the opposite direction. Blink bug ftl

doing what? Standing around IF? hehe

Lot's of time consuming things to do at 60. Multiple pve runs every week. Zg, bwl, mc, onyxia. High pvp ranks are very time consuming as well. Between the 2 you won't have time for much else. The pvp alone can keep you busy if you can be bothered to try get above rank 10.

Jim

PvP is soul comsuming. Basically because your competing against people with no jobs / lives who just pvp all day for rank. Alot of them are mediorce players at best as well.

Woden

aye the real high end pvp is tight on horde on terenas. almost like a list of who's gonna hit rank 14 and such next. and they give out if you happen to get about them in honour for the week asking you to back off so they can have standing 1 and such. my pvp play time has increased significantly over the last few weeks. its what i'm enjoying at high end atm. push for rank 11 and hope to have it next week. not sure where i'll stop though originally i just wanted to complete the first set, now i want a different horse and so on

Bartonprince

Is there any outstanding Shaman? Or is it all rougues and mages?

BKtje

My biggest problem with PvP is that its not at all about skill. Its all about the amount of time you spend. if you lost honour points when you died then i could maybe enjoy it more.

Jim

Bartonprince wrote:

Is there any outstanding Shaman? Or is it all rougues and mages?

As B-K-DzR said its not really about which class has the best survivability but just how long you spend at pvp.

Our first rank 14 was a Druid, second was a hunter iirc.

Maximilian

Jimeatsmenu wrote:

Heh, whats your toon's name?

Fex. Mage with lightbulb attached to his head.

Horsefumbler

just like to make a point about the survivability of mages. I watched a duel between an epic equipped mage and warrior and the mage managed to kill him without being hit at all in about 6 seconds. think the warrior might have used beserker stance or something which increased his damage taken(?). Granted there were some helpfull crits in there but being able to kill an epicly equipped opponent without taking any damage could be described as pretty decent survivability. Mage didn't even have both of the 'I win' trinkets and was frost spec.

This is just dedicated to the whining mages in the thread...

BloodBath

Wow a warrior vs a frost mage 1v1. Why am I not surprised. This would be like a mage vs a soullinked master demonolgy warlock. We don't stand a chance.

The warrior must have been pretty dire to not even hit the mage once though. A good warrior will make a frost mage use all his cd's in a duel.