Forum Hypocrisy - running wild....

Doctor J

Napster never hosted any copyright material either :rolleyes:

seamus

damien.m wrote:

Shame that after all of this the complaint was listened to, remedied and now we are back to square one again.

Indeed. I'd lock the thread, but some people would take offence

Gordon

Borzoi, I really think you should take that thread down too.

damien

Borzoi wrote:

but it is very legal to use extracts from copyright material as reference provided that the source is acknowledged. Leaving the link allows posters to rapidly quote the ROTR for discussion purposes.

Wrong. Fair use DOES NOT exist in Ireland. Libraries have LIMITED excemptions. Is boards.ie a registered library now? Or educational institute?

I reiterate that at no time that I'm aware of have boards.ie hosted any copyright material.

Boards.ie is facilitating the distribution and dissemination of a pirated work. It is akin to putting an ad in a paper telling people where to find stolen materials that they can acquire. It doesn't matter where the material is hosted.

Now Borzoi, wouldn't it be less arrogant and more open-minded of you to take down the link, err on the side of caution and then ask for advice besides leaving it up long enough for a smart alec to inform the copyright association and get boards.ie in trouble? You have been told by experienced mods, smods and cmods that the link is wrong and should be taken down. How about repecting their advice besides being stubborn and asking for an Admin to intervene?

Borzoi

damien.m wrote:

. How about repecting their advice besides being stubborn and asking for an Admin to intervene?

Because
a) As far as I'm aware all mods are generally equal, and I have listened to the others, but feel that I am in the right.
b) An Admin has ALREADY intervened and is reviewing the situation, so I am leaving it to them.

Crash

Lump Basher wrote:

No, it's double standards because all the mods should be briefed with the same set of rules IMO

I missed my briefing

steveland?

TheGrinch_000 wrote:

I missed my briefing

You were in the bathroom at the time... we just went ahead without you

Crash

i knew i shouldnt have had curry for breakfast

Hobbes

damien.m wrote:

Wrong. Fair use DOES NOT exist in Ireland.

Its called "Fair dealing" and isn't that far off fair use tbh.

http://www.cai.ie/faq/index.htm#10

The book would of probably fallen under private study.

Boards.ie is facilitating the distribution and dissemination of a pirated work. It is akin to putting an ad in a paper telling people where to find stolen materials that they can acquire. It doesn't matter where the material is hosted.

I'm just curious did you report the site that hosted it for pirate material or just came on here and had a whine because it was linked to it?

damien

Hobbes wrote:

The book would of probably fallen under private study.

If by probably you mean not at all, then yes. If it wasn't a pirated book and there were only excerpts then possibly. You can't copy a whole book. Read your own googled link.

I'm just curious did you report the site that hosted it for pirate material or just came on here and had a whine because it was linked to it?

I am on this site pointing out a link on this site that is pointing to pirated material. Is your argument that weak that you want me to be the guardian of Irish copyright and if I'm not you somehow win your point? Dear me.

DeVore

in review. Being threatened with legal action by Mump Lasher has simply made me leave it there until I can run it passed a few people. Every cool down or we can all get f*ckin nuts together...

DeV.

DeVore

Lump Basher wrote:

Done. Goodbye.



This site would be better off with less nerds like you on power trips - geek....
"The 40-year Old Virgin - Part 2"

Lumpbasher banned for abuse. Sorry but between this sort of crap and the aggressive pm I got last night, I don't want someone like that here.

Undoubtedly I'm a hypocrite. I think I'll live....

DeV.

gandalf

I have the feeling this is a Phoenix account anyway.....

RuggieBear

Does that mean we'll all be allowed post warez sites if the rules of the road are allowed?

Doctor J

Don't you mean "sitez"?


Fare thee well Lump Basher, your ban from Rock/Metal had only a week and a half to go

seamus

RuggieBear wrote:

Does that mean we'll all be allowed post warez sites if the rules of the road are allowed?

I doubt it. In my own mind the ROTR occupies a different bit of ground, in that being a government publication, it should be freely available to all citizens (since it's effectively public property). Just my opinion though. We'll wait and see what DeV comes back with.

RuggieBear

seamus wrote:

I doubt it. In my own mind the ROTR occupies a different bit of ground, in that being a government publication, it should be freely available to all citizens (since it's effectively public property). Just my opinion though. We'll wait and see what DeV comes back with.

I kinda share your opinion, in theory we have already paid for the publication of the rules of the road via taxes so why do we have to pay twice for it.

In my field, i work with maps from the Ordnance Survey of Ireland (OSi) and EPA publications. Both of organisations are funded by the Government. Both protect their copyright and you won't find a more agressive organisation when it comes to copyright infringement than the OSi. People have to pay thru the nose for OSi data which we have already (in theory) paid for.

In the states all this type of data and publications are freely available as they recognise that taxes have paid for it already


.

Crash

OSi are scary. very very scary.

stevenmu

Out of curiosity, who actually owns the copyright on the rules of the road ?

I'd presume it's the government, or one of it's departments, and as such they can hardly sue or take any action against citizens for reproducing it.

Hobbes

damien.m wrote:

If by probably you mean not at all, then yes. If it wasn't a pirated book and there were only excerpts then possibly. You can't copy a whole book. Read your own googled link.

"A work may be used by anyone for the purposes of research or private study without the permission of the author, provided the use is conducted in a way which does not prejudice the rights of the copyright owner"

Pretty broard if you ask me.

I am on this site pointing out a link on this site that is pointing to pirated material.

Riiiight.. So did you use the Report post function? If not why not?

Is the post still there, if not why are you still complaining?

And if you knew the source was breaking the law why not report the source, that way you protect a number of sites that linked off it.

damien

stevenmu wrote:

Out of curiosity, who actually owns the copyright on the rules of the road ?

The rules themselves would not necessarily be copyrighted but the way they are presented and packaged are what would be. Images, phrases, diagrams etc. It all depends who owns them but as per RuggieBear's example of the OSI, they can still nail you, public property or not. I'd be surprised if the Govt hadn't gotten a third party to put this together and signed over the rights to them so that a friend of the party gets to make a killing out of selling the book and cds.

WizZard

damien.m wrote:

T I'd be surprised if the Govt hadn't gotten a third party to put this together and signed over the rights to them so that a friend of the party gets to make a killing out of selling the book and cds.

This sounds very Irish. ;rolleyes:

However, I don't mind paying for the RoTR, in physical form. I would assume someone is making a killing somewhere as it doesn't cost €13 to print that booklet.
I do NOT agree with it not being available in some shape or form on a government website. Especially seeing the amount of RTAs that occur in this country.

aidan_walsh

stevenmu wrote:

I'd presume it's the government, or one of it's departments

Department of Transport, I should imagine.

stevenmu wrote:

hey can hardly sue or take any action against citizens for reproducing it.

For reproducing the statutes, no. But this is a different matter. Its not the law word for word that is in this book. Its a guidebook, and one that would AFAIK fall fully under the domain of copyright protection. Thats not to say that it shouldn't be free, it should. It isn't, though.

Time Magazine

Just want to point out that I think it's an absolute sham that any public safety document is not freely available; but I didn't vote for this government.

RuggieBear wrote:

I kinda share your opinion, in theory we have already paid for the publication of the rules of the road via taxes so why do we have to pay twice for it.

I'm sure they're running it an a profit/loss project. Self-financing jobby. So we didn't really pay for it. In general I think this is a good thing (low taxes, user pays; but as I said above, public safety information shouldn't require a payment, especially when it's online).

So technically Boards is providing a link to a copyrighted work. It is aiding (by being an advertising portal) the distribution of it. It wouldn't be so much the govt. who might pursue this, but some uppity civil servant who sees rules above logic.

If the abusive OP did report it, and some power-hungry whore in the civil service saw this thread (and specifically its placement back up [at least that's what I got from Dev's comment]) I'd be praying they got addicted to boards before they filed a report!

That said, as Boards Ltd. is a limited company with (I presume) a rented server, could there be any liabililty? Could the domain name just be sold to NewBoards Ltd. for €1?

Time to go back to the library now .

Agent Smith

i remember a teacher telling me in school, (who would have thought?)
that the OSi Use "decoys" on maps to make sure that companys dont copy them. I.e a Postbox in the wrong place or other simuler things ( neolithic grave was one she said)

DeVore

Jesus could all the armchair lawyers and pundits PLEASE take their right hands, put them over their left shoulders, good and far now, and get a good hard grip on themselves.

This is a no brainer in part.

1. The person who has done this has absolutely and without question broken the copywright of the the people who published that book. He has photographed it in its entirety. Arguments that it SHOULD be available as a free download not-withstanding, thats the current state of play.

2. as far as I can see (and I reviewed it very late last night and this morning). That post contains an open admission that the author has broken copywright but I see no link or explicit directions to it. I'm not aware of the legal state of play for linking to copywritten material that isnt hosted here but I'll fight that fight when I choose to. I am an author of copywritten works myself and I wouldnt be wild about it if someone ripped me off. On the other hand, it has always irked me that we have to pay to be told what rules our government made up for the transport system.
I'm not so crazy about it that I'm going to fight this because frankly I just dont care that much.

3. Without a link its the same as someone coming here and saying "I've photocopied this book and I've dozens of copies in my room, come find me I live... somewhere".

My gut feeling is this: we should build a list of links to how to (legally) obtain the rules of the road. I will ask a few people I know if the rules of the road are actually copywritten themselves or just the specific instance of them is (ie: the production rather then the content).

If they ARENT then we can do a community effort to type them up and give them away. For now I would like Borzoi to remove the post (soft delete) and ask the community to input into a thread about the ROTR. Sticky a thread about links to how to get them and questsions about them etc.

If anyone else can find out of the ROTR are copywritten or just the production of them is, then we could do something more meaningful.

DeV.

CuLT

I think we're all forgetting my "Government Endorsed" online copy :v:

parsi

agent smith wrote:

i remember a teacher telling me in school, (who would have thought?)
that the OSi Use "decoys" on maps to make sure that companys dont copy them. I.e a Postbox in the wrong place or other simuler things ( neolithic grave was one she said)

I think part of the issue OSI have is with companies using their data for commercial use and turning a healthy profit without having to fork out a penny for it.

And I also think we should all remember Cults link to his gov endorsed site....

DeVore

I'm obviously dozey from lack of sleep but what what? Cults link to online copy? what?


In other news, I love the new Gathering Cards system Cult.

DeV.

steveland?

DeVore wrote:

I'm not aware of the legal state of play for linking to copywritten material that isnt hosted here but I'll fight that fight when I choose to.

While I don't know the legality of sharing links to things off site I always thought that boards.ie frowns upon links to illegal material...

I've banned people from Lost for linking to torrent sites for episodes (and will continue to do so unless told otherwise)

If you find that there's no backlash to boards.ie of linking to copyrighted material illegally distributed on the internet does that mean that links to torrents will be allowed on forums such as Lost, Stargate, Star Trek, Red Dwarf, Wanderly Wagon, Prime Time Cartoons and any other forum that deals with media that can be downloaded?