Dole Waster

magpie

do you think any supermarket manager is going to want a 50 year man, from a union background

Hell no - so maybe the onus should be on the Unions to support the workers they have rendered unemployable?

Those are all sweeping allegations about people on the dole, their lifestyle and attitude.

And you think they're all fundamentally inaccurate?

Here are some quotes from Wicknight from another thread . What do you think of these?

At the moment I though the only people who were claiming dole were graduates, disabled people and people who were just incapable of functioning in society

I really don't give a crap if there exists a loop hole in the dole system where the 2%, the chronically unemployable people, in the country can live off the dole for 6 months each time till they have to look for work again.

Chronically unemployable. What does that conjure up to you? To me it conjurs images of Dutch Gold, Rolies and watching Trisha....

Freelancer

magpie wrote:

Hell no - so maybe the onus should be on the Unions to support the workers they have rendered unemployable?

Thats not what the debate is about, and an attempt by you to drag this off topic.

And you think they're all fundamentally inaccurate?

Have you offered a shred of evidence that they are an accurate portrait of the entire long term unemployed community?

Here are some quotes from Wicknight from another thread . What do you think of these?

Again an attempt to drag this off topic, what my opinion of wicknight is irrelevant to the points I've raised with you.

Chronically unemployable. What does that conjure up to you? To me it conjurs images of Dutch Gold, Rolies and watching Trisha....

Then you're obviously blessed with a gifted imagination, how does any of this help prove your point that you've painted a fair and accurate picture of the entire unemployed community?

Zombrex

magpie wrote:

Chronically unemployable. What does that conjure up to you? To me it conjurs images of Dutch Gold, Rolies and watching Trisha....

Then you don't know much about the chronic unemployable :rolleyes:

magpie

Have you offered a shred of evidence that they are an accurate portrait of the entire long term unemployed community?

I haven't made any points about the entire long term unemployed "community". Correct me if I'm wrong.

And my question to you personally was "do you think all of those statements are fundamentally inaccurate?" - you haven't answered that question.

help prove your point that you've painted a fair and accurate picture of the entire unemployed community?

Again, I've never claimed to do this. What I have done is paint a portrait of that portion of those on UA who appear to have a relatively easy life based on the fact that they do not take up any of the myriad opportunities for work that our current economic prosperity offer, and choose instead to subside on €134 a week.

Then you don't know much about the chronic unemployable

Enlighten me then.

If the only people on the dole are those with medical/mental problems, single mothers, the chronically unemployable and others with a genuine claim and requirement for state assistance what exactly are we arguing about again?

Freelancer

magpie wrote:

I haven't made any points about the entire long term unemployed "community". Correct me if I'm wrong.

And again;

You made sweeping claims about all long term unemployed people;

Anyone who's on the dole in 2006 is probably not that concerned about clothes shopping

People who choose to be on the dole in 2006, choose to hang around the pub and the bookies.

Anyone left on the dole has made a conscious decision to drop out and lead a life consisting of cans of Dutch Gold, the odd Rasher Sandwich a few rolies adn going to the pub Friday and Saturday nights.

I've removed the bits about the infirm because the are not relevant to this they are infirmed and a different kettle of fish which we both agree on.

Do those statements of yours say "some" or a "portion"? No they say "anyone" and "people" they are a blanket charge at the entirity long term unemployed.

And my question to you personally was "do you think all of those statements are fundamentally inaccurate?" - you haven't answered that question.

Have you demostrably proven they are accurate? No. You've struggled to provide even basic ancedotal evidence, why should I be forced to deny or agree with something you've not been able to prove isn't your own fiction.

Again, I've never claimed to do this. What I have done is paint a portrait of that portion of those on UA who appear to have a relatively easy life based on the fact that they do not take up any of the myriad opportunities for work that our current economic prosperity offer, and choose instead to subside on €134 a week.

No you've suggested that the entire population of people on long term unemployed sit on their arses, drink dutch gold, go to the bookies, eat rasher sambos, and smoke rollies.

You're now saying its a portion, a complete turnaround, what portion, how many?

Zombrex

magpie wrote:

Enlighten me then.

A typical example of a someone on long term unemployment would be one of the 2 people I know who have been on the dole long term.

This was a woman I knew briefly in college. She was from a country town in Wexford and had gotten married at something ridiculous like 19. 15 years later her marriage feel apart and after her husband left she was left with no income or method to support herself. She had no skill, I am not even sure if she had a leaving cert. Thankfully she had no kids, but that also meant she was getting the bare min dole.

Now I knew this woman through a friend, and most of this is coming from the friend not the woman so I don't have a lot of details, but she basically spend the next few years on the dole. Both her parents were dead, I am not sure what for of support she got from the husband, if any.

She was unable to get a job but not from want of trying. Now you can come up with your own reasons why no one wanted to hire her. I would imagine it was due to her age, due to having no skill, and due to her being a very shy quite person (I would imagine she was probably terrible in interviews).

She eventually got a job after about 5 years of trying, and a few years later managed to enroll in a night time course in the college I was going to which is how I came to meet her.

This woman was very nice, and very determined, but also her own worst enemy. My friend said watching her give a presentation in front of the class was like like watching a car crash in slow motion lasting an hour. She seemed to not communicate at all with the rest of the class, no idea if that was her fault or the class (who happened to be typically younger than her, despite it being a night class).

From discussions with friends of mine who are social workers this seems to be a common trend in people who are chronically unemployed. Shyness (often coming from a disruptive or abusive family situation), social arkwardness, inability to communicate well, or express themselves at all etc etc. None of this is classified as anything close to a disability or mental illness so they can't get support on that basis. And the longer it goes on the worse it gets.

Thankfully FAS have started providing training to people like this, to improve their basic communication skills and confidence, give them a trade or skill and get them into positions suited to them.

But the idea that all these people just couldn't be arsed getting a job is, in my experience, a complete lack of understanding of the problem

magpie

A typical example of a someone on long term unemployment would be one of the 2 people I know who have been on the dole long term.

This was a woman I knew briefly in college....

Thanks for this, a well explained point in case.

But the idea that all these people just couldn't be arsed getting a job is, in my experience, a complete lack of understanding of the problem

A simplification anyway.

To quote from my experience I lead a Community Employment scheme which was staffed primarily by ex-union workers from a factory that had closed down (a certain glass plant). The age profile of these guys was between 40 and about 50, none of them were chronically shy (the opposite), they all had lots of work experience, skills, the ability to communicate etc. They had all come to the decision, they explained to me, that they didn't want to find another job, that they had done their bit and they now considered themselves retired. Some of them were putting plans in place to purchase then sell their council houses and use the profit to buy somewhere in the west of ireland and continue subsidising their lifestyle with the dole. When I say lifestyle these guys weren't interested in clothes - all they wanted to do was go to the pub at 12.00 every day and have a few pints, nip into the bookies for a punt, get some chips on the way home and repeat. Day-in day-out. I never once saw one of them eat a piece of fruit or a vegetable in 12 months. I regularly joined them for a pint which is when they explained their worldview to me: they perceived the "system" as having ****ed them over so the state now owed them a living, and buggered if they were going to go and find another job.

Clearly my experience differs from yours.

I think the key question in this debate was "is €134 enough to provide a cushy lifestyle". In answer to this the guys I worked woith seemed to think so, otherwise they would've been forced to go and find other work.

Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but it is enough to convince me that not all people in long-term unemployment are there from adversity and that there is an element of choice involved.

sovtek

Freelancer wrote:

No I'm saying you cannot expect a trained professional to gleefully run into a job stacking shelves. Or that they'd be wanted, look at the Irish Examiner printers, do you think any supermarket manager is going to want a 50 year man, from a union background, when he can hire a bunch of poles, who even if they complain, he doesn't understand them?

I had to practically beg a guy to hire me as a puter repair guy because I had 10 years Network Admin/IT experience. I was "over qualified".
This was all to keep from having to end up on the street (I can't claim the dole).

jtsuited

K.O.T.R wrote:

Can any one tell me how many workers are sick of the DOLE WASTER who have never done a days work in the lives but yet can spend all day every day in the bookies and the pub. When I myself have being working for the past 17 years and can't even go out 1 night a week. I look at my pay slip every week and see how much tax I pay and for what a load of waster to get money. Which must of these live with there girlfriens who have a concil house and around 2 to 5 kids. Does this not look wierd a single women (well there thats what they the the socailwlfare) with all thes kids. 2 question should be asked of them 1. ARE they on the game 2. do they sleep with any one how buys then a drink.

Don't get never wrong here the local concil know this is going on and do notting about it. Why do you ask cause if they did It would make there lives and work a bit harder.

I say its about time that the workes and Tax payers say no more to this.
Do you know that if a worker lose there job and there partner is working that you will only get around half of what the dole is and your partner will have to pay more taxes aslong as you are on the dole that's if you get it.

What does every one else think of this?????

Kevin
K.O.T.R
knights_of_the_republic@hotmail.com

Wow if you could make a coherent legible post, you might have a better chance of a better job. Which would mean you wouldn't be on forums like this moaning about people who maybe even have the sense to not waste their time, like you do, working a job for unsatisfactory pay.

In answering your question of what does everyone else thinks of this?
I personally think you should become a more educated person before making rash generalisations, stereotyping, and generally just showing everyone what a hateful and silly person you are

Ag marbh

K.O.T.R wrote:

Can any one tell me how many workers are sick of the DOLE WASTER who have never done a days work in the lives but yet can spend all day every day in the bookies and the pub. When I myself have being working for the past 17 years and can't even go out 1 night a week. I look at my pay slip every week and see how much tax I pay and for what a load of waster to get money. Which must of these live with there girlfriens who have a concil house and around 2 to 5 kids. Does this not look wierd a single women (well there thats what they the the socailwlfare) with all thes kids. 2 question should be asked of them 1. ARE they on the game 2. do they sleep with any one how buys then a drink.

Don't get never wrong here the local concil know this is going on and do notting about it. Why do you ask cause if they did It would make there lives and work a bit harder.

I say its about time that the workes and Tax payers say no more to this.
Do you know that if a worker lose there job and there partner is working that you will only get around half of what the dole is and your partner will have to pay more taxes aslong as you are on the dole that's if you get it.

What does every one else think of this?????

Kevin
K.O.T.R
knights_of_the_republic@hotmail.com

I say fair play to long term people on the dole who do it just to spite the government.

samb

Wicknight wrote:

From discussions with friends of mine who are social workers this seems to be a common trend in people who are chronically unemployed. Shyness (often coming from a disruptive or abusive family situation), social arkwardness, inability to communicate well, or express themselves at all etc etc. None of this is classified as anything close to a disability or mental illness so they can't get support on that basis. And the longer it goes on the worse it gets.

From my experience this is definetely the case. Often employers will prefer employ someone who already has a job and does not have a gap in thier CV. Most people on the dole will only be on it for a short period anyway.


The people who are happy on the dole long term should also get some sympathy, They will never enjoy a good standard of living and are missing out.

The people I pity the most however are the ignorant, angry, facists like the orgininal poster.

samb

magpie wrote:

I did one of those "test your political stance" things and I came out as being closest to Charles Kennedy, if that's any help to you.

I was near Hillary Clinton, so am looking foward to November 2008

samb

magpie wrote:

Chronically unemployable. What does that conjure up to you? To me it conjurs images of Dutch Gold, Rolies and watching Trisha....

What is wrong with Dutch Gold and Rollies, I enjoy both. I suppose you drink Hino. You watch too many ads. You are probably waste your life trying to portray some pathetic image.
Trisha.........fair enough

The_Minister

Here is a common scam: single mother puts her bf down as landlord. Can get up to a thousand extra per month

Hobbes

Firespinner wrote:

Here is a common scam: single mother puts her bf down as landlord. Can get up to a thousand extra per month

1000 for what? rent Allowance? She would have to get a rent book and her BF would have to register himself as landlord which means he has to pay taxes for that income.

Of course if your scamming you can ignore this, but it certainly isn't as easy as you make it out to be.

magpie

I suppose you drink Hino

Guinness TBH