Why are so many people buying new cars??

maidhc

kluivert wrote:

I dont know about you guys but if a car is serviced regularly ie every 6k and and well maintened inside and out, it'll run no problem. And dont drive the crap out of it.

It might and it mightent. We have an *Avensis* sitting outside that is developing a habit of getting stuck in gear... despite the fact it got a new clutch and flywheel 12 mths ago to solve that problem. It has 80k up (4 years old). It was serviced every 10k by a main Toyota dealer. It also has developed a weird problem where the headlights dim for no reason...

Having said that, a car should last well if looked after...

lomb

known failure of avensis of their gearboxes, u mite need a new one:(
i suppose everyone wants new and its up to the individual to decide if he can afford it, same as anything else, everyone makes choices.

kluivert

Sounds like a gear linkage problem and not the clutch. If the gears not aligned properly you develop a problem whereby you wont be able to get the car into gear either.

The lights dimming for no reason sounds like a strip wire somewhere along the route to the headlights.

I could be wrong but nothing that a *proper* mechanic cant sort.

If you are unhappy with the work preformed by a mechanic you have the right by law to bring the car back and have it rectified.

Supply of Goods and Service Act 1980.

hartytkd

Airblazer wrote:

Also reason why everyone trades in every 2-3 years is it minimises the depreciation and gives you the most value out of trading up..

There are some problems with the maths here. When bought, a brand new car will loose 1/2 its value over the first three years. If you are lucky. Consider the following cases:

Case A:
Say you buy a car for €20,000. After three years it is worth €10,000. You have lost €10,000. If you then buy another new car, it will loose another €10,000 over the next three years. The depreciation will cost you about €3,300 per year.

Case B:
Suppose you instead decide to keep the car you bought and after another three years it is worth €5,000. The depreciation will cost you about €2,500 per year.

Case B will clearly cost you less than Case A. Other charges such as registration & VRT would make the difference greater. I have not accounted for wear & tear but as long as the mileage is not more than average, a six year old car should not incur significantly higher maintenance costs than when it was newer. Remember too that a dealer will always give you less on the trade-in than the car can be sold for on the market.

That said, if you are doing a large number of miles (say 25k per year), it would make sense to get a new car more often. But modern cars are designed to go at least 100k before needing major work (e.g. a new clutch or exhaust)

Just my opinion!:D
Gavin

DirkVoodoo

lomb wrote:

agreed, u cant put a price on the feeling u get driving a factory ordered new car to spec.

Couldnt agree more. While there are pros and cons to each one, it boils down to personal choice.

However, I remember reading an article recently saying that the 'brand new' car smell we all now and love is a toxic mix of chemicals. Bless those people at findarticles.com go here.

Its a small price to pay i guess, love that smell

maidhc

kluivert wrote:

If you are unhappy with the work preformed by a mechanic you have the right by law to bring the car back and have it rectified.

Clutch & flywheel was replaced before the warranty ran out. To be honest I dont think there is too much wrong. I always found the gearbox awkward, but since its not my car I presumed it was because I wasn't used to it.

Anyhow, totally OT, but it does show that 3-4-5year old cars can develop problems, and possibly expensive ones!

Ginger83

We used to change our cars every year due to high mileage but decided to take a different approach in 2004 and get two heavy diesels. I got herself a 1.8tdci focus and myself a 2.9td landcruiser, never had a problem with either since we got them. As we are not changing every year now we opted to take a holiday every three months or so.
( just enjoying spending it in a different way)

colm_mcm

If you can afford to change your car regularly, why not do it? Have a car that's in warranty, get the latest safety and refinement, you have to spend your cash on something!

lomb

pesonally im very dis satified with the state of new cars. i mean if the number of transistors on a microchip can double every other year, why cant they put real technology into new cars.
take electronic stability control with a yaw sensor, this can save lifes, see http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/recommendation.php
why isnt this fitted to main stream cars. the vw golf comes closest with ASR semi traction control but afaik no other 'normal' car gets it, why not?
then theres new engine technology, i had to pay extra to get a high tech 16 valve direct injection petrol in the mothers golf with the 8valve from the 1980 being standard, i mean come on!
air con is optional across the board, how dear can this really be to install?

new cars should all have high tech engines, climate control, abs, full traction control, independant rear suspension and remote central locking, fuel computers, sat nav screens, headphone interfaces for ipods/other mp3 players but how many of them do? as far as im concerned there is no real push for innovation in normal cars as the market doesnt demand it.

jayok

lomb wrote:

pesonally im very dis satified with the state of new cars. i mean if the number of transistors on a microchip can double every other year, why cant they put real technology into new cars.
take electronic stability control with a yaw sensor, this can save lifes, see http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/recommendation.php
why isnt this fitted to main stream cars. the vw golf comes closest with ASR semi traction control but afaik no other 'normal' car gets it, why not?
then theres new engine technology, i had to pay extra to get a high tech 16 valve direct injection petrol in the mothers golf with the 8valve from the 1980 being standard, i mean come on!
air con is optional across the board, how dear can this really be to install?

new cars should all have high tech engines, climate control, abs, full traction control, independant rear suspension and remote central locking, fuel computers, sat nav screens, headphone interfaces for ipods/other mp3 players but how many of them do? as far as im concerned there is no real push for innovation in normal cars as the market doesnt demand it.

I think the problem here is that you are looking at the wrong cars. Golfs for example are notorious for dropping those extras to get the base cost down.

Take the new (2006) Honda Civic all models have:

1. Vechicle Stability Assist (electronic stability control)
2. Newly developed engines (with the 1.8 putting out impressive power for the economy)
3. A/C
4. Fuel computers

Not sure but I think the bluetooth option is there for iPODs, etc. Top of the range Civic is €27k new. For €27k you could probably get a 1.4 Golf with Electric windows! The power of VWs marketing. If people keep buying 8v engines and pay top price for old technology why bother to innovate? It with only cost VW money. If you put yourself up to be fleeced then there's no point in complaining about it. :rolleyes:

BTW I have used VW in this example but there are others out there as well.

lomb

its not just vw which are quilty, toyota puts very little in its corolla, never looked at civic honestly, looked at skoda, and they dont have a golf type hatchback, only their combi octavia coming closest and again everything is optional and with the 16 valve 1.6 fsi, its golf money so id rather have a golf of course. never looked at honda tbh, sounds good though.
the only car that came closest was the mercedes a class, and at least they esp their cars, and have superb fuel economy and have a very innovative chassis. didnt go with that due to merc horror stories of late.

maidhc

These toys cost money, and an average Golf only costs about 10k when you take off the taxes and so forth! Also extra toys mean extra complexity and more things to wrong.

I'm sure some wise man once said the safest car you can drive is one with a spear sticking out of the steering wheel... there is an alarming amount of truth in this when people buy into the idea electronics can defeat the laws of physics.

unkel

lomb wrote:

new cars should all have high tech engines, climate control, abs

All cars sold in the EU have ABS as standard*

I share your points in general but all gimmicks cost money, initially a lot when they are new inventions and gradually less. Solution: buy a 10 year high end executive saloon. It will have more technology than a brand new mainstream small hatch like a Golf that costs very little to produce as maidhc rightly pointed out

Also any extra on top of a bare new car will attract VAT and VRT making it even more expensive


*except some special interest low volume cars for which the manufacturer has applied for an exception

Airblazer

the reason they're very basic is thanks to Bertie and co. with their outrageous vrt and tax... If you compare a new car you buy here with a new car in the UK the UK car will have loads of extras...actually these are not extras but standard in the cars over there...over here in order to sell the cars as cheap as they can they strip all of the so called extras out so negate the affects of vrt and tax..a classic example of this is for example a 2l diesel modeo..here the base lx model has frankly fuuckall in it while for the same money in the uk you'd get the zetec model..so thanks bertie u asshole..only for u we could all afford new cars every few years..

Balfa

Airblazer wrote:

Bertie

Ehh, I think the tax here has been high since long before Bertie's time.

alias no.9

Balfa wrote:

Ehh, I think the tax here has been high since long before Bertie's time.

There was import duty which the EU told us to abolish so Bertie, as minister for finance at the time, devised VRT, a tax so devious that the supposed nominal rates of 22.5%, 25% and 30% are really 29%, 33% and 43% becauste they're calculated as a percentage of the selling price, rather than a markup on the pre VRT price. Don't forget that the pre VRT price already has 21% vat paid on it.

Take the example of a new VW Golf 2.0TDi Comfortline, add in a CD changer, metalic paint, front fog lights and an alarm, the list price of this is €33,274 (according to CBG). The cost of building this and shipping it to ireland, the manufacturers, distributers and dealers profits come to €15020.83. Add to this 21% VAT and it jumps to €19013.71 but then Mr. Tax Man comes along again, using Berties warped calculations and adds his VRT resulting in a whopping retail price of €33274. The taxmans take on this car is €18253.17, 21% more than the €15520.83 shared between the manufacturer, distributer and dealer.

There may have been high tax here before Bertie, however, the current system is all Berties doing, including the calculation of VRT on retail price which hides the reality of how high the tax rates are.

kluivert

I was comparing prices in the UK to prices here in Ireland and Ireland are the same but the spec is lower has well.

Opel Astra SportsHatch Sxi in Ireland is €24500 approx
Opel Astra SportsHatch Sxi in England is £15000 approx

Convert to Euro the English car is dearer.

So i though ok if i buy new over in England import to Ireland, pay no UK Vat hold the car for six months pay no Irish Vat. Some may question the legal point on this :rolleyes:

Now the English Car is £12765 coverted to Euro at a rate of 0.6681 (Bank of Ireland) is €19117.86 + VRT (Revenue.ie) of €5275 = €24400.

Theres not much of a difference, we cant win either way can we.

Balfa

alias no.9 wrote:

...all Berties doing

Ah, informative and all new to me. Thanks for setting me straight.

Head The Wall

kluivert wrote:

I was comparing prices in the UK to prices here in Ireland and Ireland are the same but the spec is lower has well.

Opel Astra SportsHatch Sxi in Ireland is €24500 approx
Opel Astra SportsHatch Sxi in England is £15000 approx

Convert to Euro the English car is dearer.

So i though ok if i buy new over in England import to Ireland, pay no UK Vat hold the car for six months pay no Irish Vat. Some may question the legal point on this :rolleyes:

Now the English Car is £12765 coverted to Euro at a rate of 0.6681 (Bank of Ireland) is €19117.86 + VRT (Revenue.ie) of €5275 = €24400.

Theres not much of a difference, we cant win either way can we.

You have to prove that you are living in UK for one year and you have to own the car for 6 months and have to show ferry tickets etc to prove that the car has only arrived in the country recently. They are very strict on this now, we don't want the government to be losing any revenue, do we?

JohnBoy

what i don't understand is why people buy new suzuki lianas and hyundai accents as opposed to nearly new golf and foci and the like

jayok

Because they are more reliable?

zing

Squirrel wrote:

My family gets a new car every 4 years, but it's a company car so costs us nothing, perhaps alot of new cars are company ones

Never heard of BIK then ? Your family are most likely paying somewhere in the region of 10-15% of the omv of that car for every year they have it. And at the end of the 4 years you'll have nothing to show for it.

I'm currently driving a company car and it certainly doesn't cost me nothing.

Esel

hartytkd wrote:

.... But modern cars are designed to go at least 100k before needing major work (e.g. a new clutch or exhaust)

Just my opinion!:D
Gavin

Since when is a clutch or exhaust 'major work'?

Squirrel

zing wrote:

Never heard of BIK then ? Your family are most likely paying somewhere in the region of 10-15% of the omv of that car for every year they have it. And at the end of the 4 years you'll have nothing to show for it.

I'm currently driving a company car and it certainly doesn't cost me nothing.

The advantages of being oblivious I suppose

esskay

Hi all,
I reckon we should start a campaign to make used cars "cool". By buying a used car and not paying VRT you are being "rebellious" or making a statement that you won't tolerate being ripped off by the government, rather than the usual "Look at me I have loadsa cash" image people think they get from a new car. As automotive technology improves the life of the used car is extended making them a safer buy especially if you do your homework before buying. If the profit made by the government on VRT decreased enough, maybe they could be persuaded to get rid of it finally and make themselves look like they are doing it "for the people" in the process. Both my wife and I work and have no kids and we still can't afford a new car (well, one I'd like to drive) so instead i drive a 92 VW Corrado G60 which I love to drive. There is no way I could afford a new car with the same performance. If you search there are always bargains to be had in the used car market and if the market was to increase dealers would be more likely to offer incentives to buy used cars (warranties and such) making them a more worthwhile purchase. VRT is a scam as far as I can see, we pay tax (it may not be called a tax but it is) twice on one item. Why? Greed. If you asked you would be told all the wonderful things done with the money from VRT but it is still illegal imho and if more people could afford new cars they still make a packet on VAT and related taxes (i.e fuel) The price of any item will always increase to what people are willing to pay, not what it is worth. We may have more money these days but we have no problem wasting it and driving the prices up even more.
Sorry, am ranting now and losing my train of thought but hopefully you get the gist. Anyone think this might be a valid approach or have any further ideas?
Stev-O

bazz26

esskay wrote:

Hi all,
I reckon we should start a campaign to make used cars "cool". By buying a used car and not paying VRT you are being "rebellious" or making a statement that you won't tolerate being ripped off by the government, rather than the usual "Look at me I have loadsa cash" image people think they get from a new car. As automotive technology improves the life of the used car is extended making them a safer buy especially if you do your homework before buying. If the profit made by the government on VRT decreased enough, maybe they could be persuaded to get rid of it finally and make themselves look like they are doing it "for the people" in the process. Both my wife and I work and have no kids and we still can't afford a new car (well, one I'd like to drive) so instead i drive a 92 VW Corrado G60 which I love to drive. There is no way I could afford a new car with the same performance. If you search there are always bargains to be had in the used car market and if the market was to increase dealers would be more likely to offer incentives to buy used cars (warranties and such) making them a more worthwhile purchase. VRT is a scam as far as I can see, we pay tax (it may not be called a tax but it is) twice on one item. Why? Greed. If you asked you would be told all the wonderful things done with the money from VRT but it is still illegal imho and if more people could afford new cars they still make a packet on VAT and related taxes (i.e fuel) The price of any item will always increase to what people are willing to pay, not what it is worth. We may have more money these days but we have no problem wasting it and driving the prices up even more.
Sorry, am ranting now and losing my train of thought but hopefully you get the gist. Anyone think this might be a valid approach or have any further ideas?
Stev-O

I'm not saying I agree with VRT and I do get your point but if nobody bought new cars then there would be little or no second hand cars around. It's a catch 22 suituation I'm afraid. Also somebody had to have bought your Corrado new at one stage.

I say let people go out and trade their 05 cars for 06 models if they want as this means there are more nearly new low mileage bargins out there for me to choose from.

maidhc

esskay wrote:

Hi all,
I reckon we should start a campaign to make used cars "cool". By buying a used car and not paying VRT you are being "rebellious"...

When you buy s/h you are contributing indirectly to what the previous purchaser paid in VRT. Secondhand prices are also higher in Ireland than the UK.

Also someone has to buy new some time as bazz said, and plenty of the s/h cars in Ireland are wrecked, or have big miles up.

lomb

some second handers are actually cheaper here than the uk! a 1995 s500 coupe i know of was sold recently for under 10000 euros. it probably would have got very slightly more in the uk.
just shows u residual vrt evaporates into the ether after 8 or 9 years...

LundiMardi

sandyg wrote:

I just got my 06 punto grande last week having previously owned an 04 fiat panda. My reason:
1) i had put up over 31k on the clock
2) panda was only a 1.1
3) saved up so i required no finance
4) More safety features in bigger car.
5) get 4 years warranty/AA membership so have hassle free driving.

Oh man, i know someone else who bought a 06 Punto, the mind boggles

esskay

Good point, i gave it some more thought and it was just an angry rant more than a good idea