Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Which party do you support / will vote for?
Options
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
Deleted User wrote:Bizarre. Because I know plenty of qualified Solicitors walking into highly paid jobs, I mean very highly paid jobs..
from bulgaria?, cause thats where those waitress are from. prehaps im being racist, maybe their nigerian?, estonian?,congoese?. the amount of HIGHLY educated people moping up puke in this country because they cant make a living at home is unreal. and when we get the services directorate GUESS whos gonna be compeating with the currently closed shops here, working for a tenner an hour. hope your solicitor friends havent got big mortages yet
0 -
Angry Banana wrote:Let us suppose that, tomorrow, Fianna Fáil merge with the Irish Countrywomen's Association to form Fianna Fáil Nua. Does that mean they can no longer claim de Valera? If Gerry Adams dies tomorrow and Mary-Lou takes over, and re-names the party Sibh Féin, was Gerry Adams not a major figure in the party's history.
"Original" Sinn Féin split after the treaty. One side was pro-Treaty, one side was anti-Treaty. The pro-Treaty side won the war, founded the State. This side, Cumann na nGaedheal subsumed two elements into their party and renamed themselves Fine Gael, and still hold their "progressive centre" views.
Sinn Féin man 1: The state was founded by the blood on 1916
Sinn Féin man 2: The state was founded in 1919
Sinn Féin man 3: There are actually several states knocking around
Sinn Féin man 4: But we sit in the one Fine Gael founded.
The Shinners today are completely different to the Shinners of Arthur Griffith/Michael Collins/Eamonn de Valera. All of the above were moderately conservative. None were Marxists, as the party now claim to be.
If you want to attribute the successes of the EU to Fine Gael go right ahead; it's about time we got some praise for it. No major wars in the region in sixty years, compared to 50 million people dying in thirty.
Rightly so. You do. If you want me to name names, I will. If you want me to tell you stories you've never heard of I will. SF do have blood on their hands.
If the people felt so strongly they'd have voted no again. But, wait, they didn't. Democratic majority voted for the Nice Treaty.
Murder and pillage! There's libel if ever I saw it.
Fine Gael do not support the war in Iraq.
Like supporting the war in Iraq? Where do you make this up?.
You claimed credit for FG doing things before FG existed. Not for credit for what the forerunners of their party done. Do FG also take credit for the Blueshirts and their pro-fascist heritage? http://www.politics.ie/wiki/index.php?title=Blueshirts
So if FG comes to power they will stop this state assisting American war crimes? Or they will continue to support it? Which is it?
You're claiming the credit for Ireland's freedom while claiming the credit for handing Ireland's freedom over to Brussels. Which is it?
On the Nice Treaty. Why bother asking the public at all? What about the campaign of intimidation against the electorate to make them change their minds? Why the respect for the second vote and not the first vote? Why not a third vote seen as how the score is 1-1? :rolleyes: Democrats, my ass.0 -
Zebra3 wrote:You claimed credit for FG doing things before FG existed. Not for credit for what the forerunners of their party done. Do FG also take credit for the Blueshirts and their pro-fascist heritage? http://www.politics.ie/wiki/index.php?title=Blueshirts
So if FG comes to power they will stop this state assisting American war crimes? Or they will continue to support it? Which is it?
You're claiming the credit for Ireland's freedom while claiming the credit for handing Ireland's freedom over to Brussels. Which is it?
On the Nice Treaty. Why bother asking the public at all? What about the campaign of intimidation against the electorate to make them change their minds? Why the respect for the second vote and not the first vote? Why not a third vote seen as how the score is 1-1? :rolleyes: Democrats, my ass.
agreed, how is it the "leader of the opposition" pretends to be worried about the rossport 5s conscerns and HIDES for two month before being SHAMED into commenting on it when he calls the cops on their wives who waited for SEVEN hours in his constituancy office. and whats his excuse, "they should have made an appointment":mad: THE BIGGEST SINGLE ISSUES IN HIS CONSTITUANCY and he want them to make an appointment
of cours the fact he also got his brother to vote the pipline throught the council on the sly has NOTHING to do with his stance.
and dont get me started on the presidential election:mad: :mad: who the HELL is enda kenny to DENY me my constitutional rights. what kind of "opposition" DOESNT take every oppertunity to attack the sitting government
but no thanks to enda its 7 years to another chance of a presidential election and till then were stuck with fianna fails bitch with the same electoral mandate as sadam huisein:mad: :rolleyes:0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
Angry Banana wrote:Christ talk about a pedant. Is it not a greater infringment to overstate the links between FG and the Reform Movement; and to say we'll "destory Irish culture"?
(You post on PIE?) Pro-fascist is also far more misleading than being pedantic about the names of parties. The Blueshirts, although they ended up a stain on Irish history, were not pro-Fascist. They were basically followers of Pope Pius; and took up arms to prevent the spread of Communism. And they subsumed themselves into Fine Gael, which was based on the C na G model, not the National Guard model.
You go on about FG being derived from those who won 5/6 of our country freedom, why not say they are derived from the original SF party that was so pro-monarchist? :rolleyes: Or is that unlikely to be a vote winner? Not as 'cool' as saying your forefather was Michael Collins?
Blueshirts not pro-fascist but happy enough to go along and fight alongside the Nazis for Franco? :rolleyes:
No idea what PIE is.Angry Banana wrote:Yes, FG will support war crimes.
Will FG put that sort on their electoral literature? Would be nice to read some honesty.Angry Banana wrote:Well there's a dilly of a pickle. Firstly, even if we were "handing over freedom to Brussels", there's no contradiction between celebrating the removal of an oppressive crown and the continued integration into a community which has brought incredible benefits to this country. Secondly, it's not a handing over of power. We agree to further integrate to reap the rewards of that integration. Grow up.
To get permission to change the Constitution that FF wrote and (the fathers of) FG paved the way for.
The fact is you are claiming credit for independence, yet proud to make DE a regional parliament within a European superstate. The Irish people turned down further integration which was ignored by Ireland's mainstream parties (inc FG) and the EU. Imo that's the start of oppression.Angry Banana wrote:Yeah, those hammers Brian Cowan carried round were scary. Please. They placed moral pressure on the people - rightly so. We should have opened up the borders. It will bring massive economic benefits to our neighbours who suffered so much deprivation post-WWII. And it's in our interest in the long-term too. What's wrong with that?
Because the first vote was a protest vote that the govt deserved. The second vote passed on merit.
Read above. That's all well in good in theory but what about in practice? The first vote failed for internal political reasons, as well as a low turnout. The second vote received far more debate in the public sphere.
You don't need hammers to intimidate people. Scare-mongering people with huge mortgages with stories of how the economy will collapse unless they vote 'correctly' is a form of intimidation. The people rejected the Nice treaty which meant it could not proceed. Ireland would not have been 'left out', but this is one of the lies fed to the people by mainstream parties (inc FG).
The people of Ireland rejected the Nice treaty and NOBODY has the right to interpret it as a protest vote against the government. Who the hell do FG (and the other parties) think they are interpreting votes aginst the Nice Treaty as being an anti-government protest????????? :mad: :mad: :mad: If FG get into power after the next election will Enda Kenny ignore the results and call another election saying the last one was just an anti-government protest vote? :eek: Will he fck!!!!0 -
-
-
-
Two reasons: the former is more specific to Fine Gael while the original Sinn Féin can genuinely be traced back to pretty much all parties in Ireland. Secondly, the original Sinn Féin were not pro-monarchist. They wanted a dual-monarchy; as was the case prior to the Act of Union.Zebra3 wrote:You go on about FG being derived from those who won 5/6 of our country freedom, why not say they are derived from the original SF party that was so pro-monarchist? :rolleyes: Or is that unlikely to be a vote winner? Not as 'cool' as saying your forefather was Michael Collins?
There's no contradiction there. They, and the men in cloth, saw Communism as the greater threat. They predicted the horrors that communism brought; but not those that fascism brought. In fairness, by the time the horrors of the Nazis and the Blackshirts came out they had put their hands down fairly lively, and joined C na G/FG.Blueshirts not pro-fascist but happy enough to go along and fight alongside the Nazis for Franco?
You referenced politics.ie. PIE is what all the cool kids call it to avoid saying the words "politics dot i-e" in public.No idea what PIE is.
Strange how your sarcasm is working well enough, but not detecting mine.Will FG put that sort on their electoral literature? Would be nice to read some honesty.
Frist of all I love how people use the word "superstate" and try to imply negative connotations. I think it'd be superThe fact is you are claiming credit for independence, yet proud to make DE a regional parliament within a European superstate..
But back to the orginal point, there's no contradiction here. We're not under an oppressive power. We are in an economic and social union that has reaped enourmous benefit to this country and helped keep the peace for the last fifty years (well, relative to the the fifty years prior to its foundation). The EU is a good thing for God's sake. I don't understand why people are so annoyed at losing our independence to make regulations over what height sockets have to be from the ground. Yes, there is a threat that, for example, the ECtHR will supersede our abortion laws (and for the record, I'm vehemently pro-Life); but I accept that the opportunity cost of that is all that we've gained for the European community. And it's a pretty clear equation.
And then, when "insulted" at the "intimidating" campaign they went and supported it. Referenda about further European integration and enlargement might serve as a warning call for the government, but that's not their long-term function. And in my opinion that's obviously what happened. Can you offer an alternative, realistic hypothesis?The Irish people turned down further integration which was ignored by Ireland's mainstream parties (inc FG) and the EU.
Oh come off it. The people had the free and fair opportunity to tell them to f*ck off a second time. "Here's a gun, shoot me if you want while I offer this to you" is not f*cking oppression. If you're so pedantic about the origins of FG I think you should also apply the same standards to the use of vocabulary.Imo that's the start of oppression.
And oppression, apparently.No it's not. It is not intimidation. It is persuasion. And God forbid the government trying to persuade the people to their side of the story. Intimidation requires some form of threat. I have more faith in the population than to believe whatever comes out of Bertie's mouth. If it entirely unreasonable to assume that "stories of how the econmoy will collapse" intimidated people into voting yes to Nice.You don't need hammers to intimidate people. Scare-mongering people with huge mortgages with stories of how the economy will collapse unless they vote 'correctly' is a form of intimidation.
Ireland would be left out in the cold by the European community for not passing the vital piece of European history. As a direct result of the second vote, millions of people are now in the EU and their economies will boom, just like ours. It would have been exceptionally greedy, hypocritical and ignorant of Ireland to not pass it. And we would have gotten the cold shoulder when it comes to negotiations. That's accepted by anyone with half a brain of the process of negotiations.The people rejected the Nice treaty which meant it could not proceed. Ireland would not have been 'left out', but this is one of the lies fed to the people by mainstream parties (inc FG).
Except the people themselves. I can't remember the figures, but a massive figure said they did not vote yes because they didn't know what the Treaty was about, and as many again said they were voting for no to let the government know they were not happy that they weren't informed. Polls overwhelmingly found this, and statistical analysis confirmed it within any reasonable doubt. The first vote against the Nice Treaty was not, as such, a vote against the Nice Treaty. Thus it passed the second time round.The people of Ireland rejected the Nice treaty and NOBODY has the right to interpret it as a protest vote against the government.
Readers of statistical analysis. I've read political science journal articles on this, and I'm sure Inda Kinny did too.Who the hell do FG (and the other parties) think they are interpreting votes aginst the Nice Treaty as being an anti-government protest?????????
Oh come off it. There was overwhelming evidence supporting the former. Referenda are not elections to government. You simply cannot compare those two. And if you dp, you're just not worth the time debating with to be honest.If FG get into power after the next election will Enda Kenny ignore the results and call another election saying the last one was just an anti-government protest vote?
And we're veering off-topic.0 -
Well post-Treaty, the majority of Sinn Féin TD's joined Cumann na nGaedheal.hill16 wrote:when I hear the likes of Enda Kenny say his party are the party most like Sinn Fein in the early days
A Dáil was formed in 1919. This was superseded by the doubly-democratically supported Dáíl that we have now, and thus ended the 1919 Dáil. This applies to the 26 counties, pending the re-integration of the six. I do not want representatives from the North in the Dáil on theoretical grounds because the State has not been re-integrated yet; and I do not want Ian Paisley in Dublin. On realistic grounds, that was a blatant political move by FF to regain its republican mantra - and you don't f*ck with the Constitution for political mantras.and at the same time trying to stop elected reps from the six counties sit in the Dail (the Dail was formed in 1918 as a 32 county Goverment),it makes me want to vote Sinn Fein.
If a march is banned by the State, and the march still goes ahead that's breaking the law. I support, within certain limits etc., the military parade. But 1976 was a dodgy time to try polarize ourselves from the Nordies. It was just; and even if you don't accept that, it was legal.Fine Gael in 1976 banned a 1916 parade in Dublin and had family members of the 1916 leaders arrested at the march.
Well we support the RepublicFine Gael are true Republicans,yeah right.
. We're nationalists. Only by democratic means. My grandfather fought in the War and his IRA medals are kept safe and proud in the house. But the time for War ended pretty much around December 6th, 1921. In my opinion there were certain exceptions where force was needed since, but all the greatest steps to re-integration have been diplomatic. Look at the 15 years since 1922 - we went from an oath-alleging colony with military ports and taxes to an (effective) republic with our own constitution. Soon thereafter the Republic was officially announced. However the progress stopped after that for fifty years - and co-incided with the rise of the IRA. There's no coincidence here. The British hate the IRA, and they always have. And they've only faltered once. Every other time they kept their ground and stood firm. With the exception of the successful war, diplomacy and manners go further with them than violence. The resurgance of the '50s was no exception to this. In the wake of times when they actually apologise for the atrocities and release innocent men, it's clear that the best way to re-integrate the regions is through building up strong economic links and making the Unionists realise they won't be murdered under Irish rule.
Then, and only then, will the British forces leave "their people" to us.
Yes they do, but equally they're vote-pullers for FG and the PD's.Do the likes of Enda Kenny and Michael McDowell not realise that they are the best vote pullers for Sinn Fein just like Ian Paisley was in the Six Counties.:D0 -
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
magpie wrote:Unfortunately we don't have a tiered system of citizenship that we could apply to Sinn Fein voters. Yet. My main experience of them, based on the RDS at the last general election, is that they smell of stale alcohol and cigarettes and probably aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer.
Ouch. You just left out the reference to facial hair - though Mary Lou has improved in that regard...:eek:0 -
-
-
shroomfox wrote:If Sinn Fein ever get into Government, I'm leaving the country.
I'm serious.
I don't want to be part of any nation that could be crazy enough to give that bunch of liars and murderers any kind of political mandate. I mean, politicians are bad in general...but, Jesus. The idea of Sinn Fein in power actually scares me.
I'm not affiliated to any party and I'm not usually so vocal about things like this. I just really, really, really dislike Sinn Fein.
Sinn Fein would be great in Government, They have plans to raise corporation tax and that would be no harm instead of us taxpayers subsidising mega multinational corporations. Bring on Sinn Fein it would be interesting to see what they'd do with the defense forces too.
0 -
netwhizkid wrote:Sinn Fein would be great in Government, They have plans to raise corporation tax and that would be no harm instead of us taxpayers subsidising mega multinational corporations.
except that the biggest benefits have been seen in small companies, Irelands economy has is primarily based on SME's which would be destroyed by SF's suicienomicsnetwhizkid wrote:Bring on Sinn Fein it would be interesting to see what they'd do with the defense forces too.
I somehow doubt that the 12,000 fine men and women of the Irish Army would accept some provo scum as their masters0 -
Advertisement
-
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement