Which party do you support / will vote for?

shroomfox

I completely with you shroomfox.....sorry it's just too long to quote the whole thing and I hate when people quote entire posts, waste of screen ink (my edit)....If thing continue we may even have to colonise parts of Britain yet. I would love to go into politics but i think it is just too much work.

Mate, I've never laughed so much in my life - not being a twat here, that is actually, really funny. Thirteen Sixteenths of this island is a nation, and that's all there is to it! Anyway, I hope you're not trolling because I would love to believe that somebody could actually believe all that, but I'll side with Earthman on this one and leave it at that.

for the record im voting sinn fein and independants, and im NOT a communist i just believe we should remain faithful to the original ethos of the country, we're a MIXED economy, not a capitalist and not a comunist one

Ireland is one of the most hardline capitalist countries in the world, with all the problems that come with it, including the second worst rich-poor divide in the world and some of the worst cases of poverty in Europe. Why? Cause we expanded really, really fast. You can blame the government if you like, but I don't think anybody in their right mind would want the nation to be poor again as a whole - it sounds to me as if Sinn Fein have all become closet DeValera fans. We're in a position now to use our wealth to try and sort out this country, and while that's unlikely given what our governments our like, at least we have a chance - unlike many of the more impoverished or static countries in the world.

I certainly don't agree with the privatisation of everything that can be privatised, and I have serious problems with FF and the PDs. But I also have serious problems with every political party in Ireland. They're all either (a) lovable eejits or (b) living in politician fairyland. And every party but the Greens (and maybe - but I'm loathe to say it - the SWP) is in column b. I still see no major difference between FF and FG, and I don't understand why Irish politics is dominated by some civil war from seventy years ago that most of the country didn't even care about at the time. Worst of all, Labour spend every day trying to be more like the big two because they think that's how they'll get votes. They've lost mine.


Lastly, my real point (sorry I've rambled) is this: Am I supposed to vote for Sinn Fein because they were bastards for as long as I can remember and suddenly turned around and said "Um...sorry lads. We were eejits there. But hey - we've got this whole "working class" thing going on, so give us your votes!"

Why should these men have power? Do they even have the foggiest idea of how government works? Do they have any real policies bar those that are designed on purely populist sentiments, to trick people into selling them their votes and forget that they killed, destroyed families and communities for some forgotten ideal, a war passed off as absurd by most people in the South? A war funded by the people most removed from it, arch-republicans in Kerry and wannabe Irish Americans? Now they've identified a niche in the Irish political scene where there is no proper left-wing ideology, and they're selling themselves.

They're murderers with marketing degrees.

I will never vote for anybody who has ever decided that violence and intimidation are valid political tools. And I won't live in a country where criminals are in power.

A Dub in Glasgo

shroomfox wrote:

Mate, I've never laughed so much in my life - not being a twat here, that is actually, really funny.

Does that mean people here are twats?

shroomfox

Wow, paranoid.

No, it means that I wasn't saying I laughed just to slag him off. I actually thought it was funny. Read the post man.

sceptre

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Does that mean people here are twats?

That's a logic stretch rather greater than anything I've thitherto seen in this thread. And I've seen some rather stretched logic in this thread at times.

Zebra3

shroomfox wrote:

And I won't live in a country where criminals are in power.

Living abroad then?

shroomfox

That is one stretched point.

shroomfox

now im playing devils advocate here but....and so on - my edit agian......THINGS I MENTIONED AND EITHER COVERED IT UP BY DISAPPEARING FILES OR MADE THE BLOODY THINGS "LEAGAL"

I didn't even see this before. But where in my post did I say that I supported anything that Irish politicians have ever done?

I think that most of them are gobsheens. It's just that I think that Sinn Fein are the worst scum imaginable. Ok, yah, totally?

While on the point, I'd just like to point out that sovereignty isn't always regarded as the be all and end all of everything. For instance: if you told me I had to die for Ireland, I'd say "Feck off! I'm dying for my family and friends."

"And maybe the cigarettes, but that's it."

I'd much rather there to be a proper European state. I don't believe that small countries are going to survive in the next couple of hundred years. We're already seeing specialisation at a gloablised level, with countries like China and India taking over semi-skilled labour and primary production centred in the Third World. The only chance for our children to have proper jobs and lives is for us all - in Europe - to work towards creating our (pretty large) niche in the world. It's becoming more obvious by the day that it has to be a highly educated niche; one advanced in research and technology. We're already being beaten by America, and India is turning out a huge amount of highly qualified engineers a day. And how are Anti-Euro heads or S(h)inners going to beat this? Ah, sure we're Ireland, we'll be grand! We'll raise the corporate tax, chase them all out, screw Europe, sure we can lead the way in world class research by ourselves, there's 4 million of us and we're all geniuses sure we got rid of England!, don't we have Microsoft and Intel and Dell and Hewlett Packard and all them boys and sure don't they come down for pints every week?

Whoops. There they go. They're drinking Hoegarden in Frankfurt.

At least in Europe we can preserve our national heritage and identity while belonging to a common group of nations with similar causes, and work towards the day where we all look out for one another. Huzzah!

<Not saying that I think Europe's perfect either. But it's all so grey, ain't it?>

A Dub in Glasgo

sceptre wrote:

That's a logic stretch rather greater than anything I've thitherto seen in this thread. And I've seen some rather stretched logic in this thread at times.

I have now reread it and it is some logic stretch that makes very little sense. I misread it earlier

reason

hill16 wrote:

so I will giveSinn Fein my vote and all my family and friends will also.

Vote early! Vote often!

Time Magazine

I have 45 minutes until I go to work. It would take at least twice as long to make all the points I normally would.

So:

1. If a party doesn't come to your door, it does not mean they don't care. It means they don't have the man power to get there. I have never met a politician who said "I'm not going in there". I've met several who've begged for support though.
2. If you ask any doctor what would happen if you eat a cyanide sandwich, they'll tell you it'd be suicide. If you ask any economist what would happen if you voted for SF/IRA/HIV/AIDS, they'd tell you it'd be like eating a cyanide sandwich.
3. You talk about voting SF/IRA/HIV/AIDS because you're working-class. You will stay that way unless the economy grows. Only if the economy grows can the working-class become wealthier.
4. Please, please, please, differenciate between some idiot public/civil servant a decade ago and a current TD/Minister. If the Blood Transfusion Service inject people with green blood I will not consider Mary Harney responsible. I will, however, if she fails to address the situation.
5. We are not a cut-throat capitalist country. Our relative poverty rate is the second-highest in the Western World. That's terrible, and I'll get into that at a later date; but I'd point you to Chad where relative poverty stands 80%, and God knows what the absolute poverty rate is. If we were a cut-throat capitalist system we would not have brought in a minimum wage, and we would have some private operators in transport.
6. A major reason we had economic growth was membership of the EU. If we leave, we're f*cked. We, of all people, should be willing to "hand over" our menial decisions to Brussels.

Cork

The Peace Process was a mess when Bertie took over from John Bruton. Bertie stuck with the Peace Process and pushed SF/IRA to democratic politics. He was never afraid to stand up to Adams & co.

This country has never enjoyed such a period of economic success.

I will be voting FF. This may come as a surprise to some but I think they have done a decent job.

Fine Gaeler

This is my first post and as my name suggests I'll be voting for Fine Gael.

In doing so I'll be voting for a Government that will listen to the people, that will stand between the institutions of the state and anarchy,that will bring a positive new influence to the peace process, that will tax carefully and spend wisely while ensuring that vital services such as Health,Education and Security recieve the resources that are needed to make life better for the ordinary people of Ireland.

Fine Gaeler

The Peace Process was a mess when Bertie took over from John Bruton. Bertie stuck with the Peace Process and pushed SF/IRA to democratic politics. He was never afraid to stand up to Adams & co.

Bull****.Bruton's contribution is unfairly rejected.Yes he made one or two errors, as did Bertie, but he signed the Joint Declaration that lead to the Good Friday Agreement. The peace process was in safe hands under Bruton.He was not afraid to stand up to extremists on either side as he sought to bring about a new Northern Ireland.

Bertie has achieved a great deal in the North but arguably Bruton would have done just as well without conceding so much ground to the IRA in the earlier stages.

LordSutch

I have been studying History this year and it has come to my attention that the 1916 rebellion was in fact a very unpopular act!

Initially I was stunned, becuse all my life I have been taught that "we" the Irish people faught the evil Brits in order to gain independence, whereas in "Reality" a handful of Republican fundameltalists went on an idolistic mission of Rampage & martyrdom, and "According to the history books" the people of Dublin actually hurled insults, eggs, rotten tomatoes and horse manure at the leaders of the 1916 rising as they were been led away to jail, such was Dublin's disgust at their treacherous actions (News indeed to me)!

So now after all these years of having one side of the story drummed into me I can see another side for the first time and the fact that the seeds for this State were hatched (Slap Bang in the Middle of the GREAT WAR) with many thousands of Irish men fighting under the Union Flag in the trenches of the Somme, while at the very same time a motley bunch of Irish Republicans decide to have a go at Britain through the back door.
"Not a Good idea if you think about it for one moment" - and so - the leaders were executed - as was the way in those days (Fact)!

ateam

ArthurF wrote:

I have been studying History this year and it has come to my attention that the 1916 rebellion was in fact a very unpopular act!

Initially I was stunned, becuse all my life I have been taught that "we" the Irish people faught the evil Brits in order to gain independence, whereas in "Reality" a handful of fundameltalists went on an idolistic mission of martyrdom and oblivion! "According to the history books" the people of Dublin hurled insults, eggs, rotten tomatoes and horse manure at the leaders of the 1916 rising as they were been led away to jail (News indeed to me)!

So now after all these years of having one side of the story drummed into me I can see another side for the first time and the fact that the seeds for this State were hatched (Slap Bang in the Middle of the GREAT WAR) with many thousands of Irish men fighting under the Union Flag in the trenches of the Somme, and at the very same time a motley bunch of Irish Republicans decide to have a go at Britain through the back door! "Not a Good idea" if you think about it for one moment - and so - the leaders were executed - as was the way in those days! (Fact).

The public's reaction in 1916 has been exaggerated. Recent historians dispute the reaction you mention, indicating that it was not as bad as painted by some(small point )

Cronus333

Fine Gaeler wrote:

This is my first post and as my name suggests I'll be voting for Fine Gael.

In doing so I'll be voting for a Government that will listen to the people, that will stand between the institutions of the state and anarchy,that will bring a positive new influence to the peace process, that will tax carefully and spend wisely while ensuring that vital services such as Health,Education and Security recieve the resources that are needed to make life better for the ordinary people of Ireland.

Why do I think that this will appear on Fine Gael's website any day now?

A Dub in Glasgo

ArthurF wrote:

I have been studying History this year and it has come to my attention that the 1916 rebellion was in fact a very unpopular act!

Initially I was stunned, becuse all my life I have been taught that "we" the Irish people faught the evil Brits in order to gain independence, whereas in "Reality" a handful of Republican fundameltalists went on an idolistic mission of Rampage & martyrdom, and "According to the history books" the people of Dublin actually hurled insults, eggs, rotten tomatoes and horse manure at the leaders of the 1916 rising as they were been led away to jail, such was Dublin's disgust at their treacherous actions (News indeed to me)!

So now after all these years of having one side of the story drummed into me I can see another side for the first time and the fact that the seeds for this State were hatched (Slap Bang in the Middle of the GREAT WAR) with many thousands of Irish men fighting under the Union Flag in the trenches of the Somme, while at the very same time a motley bunch of Irish Republicans decide to have a go at Britain through the back door.
"Not a Good idea if you think about it for one moment" - and so - the leaders were executed - as was the way in those days (Fact)!

You must have been leading some sheltered life if this is all news to you. Maybe you should have a chat with your folks about where you are getting your information from prior to learning this bombshell news as it is well known and told in basic Irish history studies that the 1916 rebellion was frowned upon by a lot of people in Dublin at the time. The way the British treated the leaders and interned a lot of people changed attitudes soon after.

reason

PD first, FF second.

Everything else strikes me as either weak, risible or completely terrifying to thinking people.

is_that_so

DaveMcG wrote:

Does anyone know how I go about registering for a vote? I just turned 18 a while ago...!

They should have forms in the local post office or you could contact the local council. Very easy to do. And good that you think it is important enough to ask.

Sand

The public's reaction in 1916 has been exaggerated. Recent historians dispute the reaction you mention, indicating that it was not as bad as painted by some(small point )

If anything, given that the victors were writing the history books it was understated if it was mentioned at all.

Everything else strikes me as either weak, risible or completely terrifying to thinking people.

Sad truth is that neither of FF or the PDs are even basically competent, with one or two notable exceptions. And yet theyre the best on offer. But we get the government we deserve.

is_that_so

Firstly it is good to see so many pledging active support to their respective parties. I would hope that this support translates into active voting.

I have never actively supported one party or other and would see myself as a floating voter.
For me I am inclined for someone who I think will "make a difference". More often than not that tends to colour my voting based on local issues.
Most of us are much the same and unless we are prepared to go around banging on doors we find a shade to suit ourselves.

By our nature our society is conservative in thinking, although that may not appear the case when we are 18 and we are thinking of Che Guevara posters.

We are a shade to the right ,a extemely large one when we are on Joe Duffy
To this leaning appeals the centrism of the PDs/FGs/FF. We like to bask in the rosy hue of Labour but anything outside of that ebbs and flows.

So unless we have a pedigree of voting for a particular party we choose the one that bests suits our colour at the moment.

As an aside it is wearisome that 100 years or so after the fact, we are still banging on about who has the greatest claim to history of our country.
Dev is dead along with all the other characters from his time.
Next time out it'll be Bertie and Mary and Enda and Pat and god knows who.

As they say the past is a different country.

And if your voting intentions are based on what amounts to a family squabble then look again at why you are voting. Our choices should be based in the present and not on that tedious game of who knows most about Irish history ( been there done that myself ). I agree with the OP, it is time for a change but it has to be a change that will make a positive difference.

Flex

ArthurF wrote:

I have been studying History this year and it has come to my attention that the 1916 rebellion was in fact a very unpopular act!

DAMN!!!! I guess this means the secrets out

Initially I was stunned, becuse all my life I have been taught that "we" the Irish people faught the evil Brits in order to gain independence, whereas in "Reality" a handful of Republican fundameltalists went on an idolistic mission of Rampage & martyrdom, and "According to the history books" the people of Dublin actually hurled insults, eggs, rotten tomatoes and horse manure at the leaders of the 1916 rising as they were been led away to jail, such was Dublin's disgust at their treacherous actions(News indeed to me)!

Keep reading history because we did fight the British (War of Independence, January 21, 1919- until the truce in July 1921) and wouldnt have had any success if it wasnt for the overwhelming public support the IRA had. As for the treachourous actions bit, Id agree IF you are claiming 1)people were angry because they felt they were betraying the thousands of Irishmen who were on the continent fighting because most people felt like that and 2) also the people of Dublin lived in absolutely terrible poverty thanks to Britain's rule, so they were probably annoyed that parts of the city had been destroyed and 3) the British had been claiming that the rising was part of a preparation for a German invasion of Ireland and that the rebels were German collaborators and 4) people thought this rising had ruined hopes for home rule after the war. Thankfully by then Sinn Fein was the chosen party of Ireland and people realised they could have more than Home Rule if they fought for it, and they did fight.

I can see another side for the first time and the fact that the seeds for this State were hatched (Slap Bang in the Middle of the GREAT WAR) with many thousands of Irish men fighting under the Union Flag in the trenches of the Somme

How have you come to that conclusion?

while at the very same time a motley bunch of Irish Republicans decide to have a go at Britain through the back door.
"Not a Good idea if you think about it for one moment" - and so - the leaders were executed - as was the way in those days (Fact)!

I think they desevre more respect than being called a 'motley bunch'. They had no illusions about what would happen when they went out that day (unless you think they were so stupid that they thought 1,600 men could defeat the British Empire in open combat), but they went out and fought anyway with nothing but love for their country and the believe that 'blood sacrifice' would 'save the nations soul', and they were right. I know alot of clowns and such like to badmouth and ridicule them (and everything related to Irish nationalism) these days but I would have been proud to have been among them, fighting the country occupying mine and asserting Irelands right to freedom.

Sand

2) also the people of Dublin lived in absolutely terrible poverty thanks to Britain's rule, so they were probably annoyed that parts of the city had been destroyed

I would have been proud to have been among them, fighting the country occupying mine and asserting Irelands right to freedom.

Youd have been proud of attacking those desperately poor Dubliners who tried to loot what they could from abandoned shops to feed their starving children whilst their city was a warzone?

Perhaps Bertie will have a float in the parade to commemorate it?

LordSutch

Flex wrote:

DAMN!!!! I guess this means the secrets out
Keep reading history because we did fight the British (War of Independence, January 21, 1919- until the truce in July 1921) and wouldnt have had any success if it wasnt for the overwhelming public support the IRA had. As for the treachourous actions bit, Id agree IF you are claiming 1)people were angry because they felt they were betraying the thousands of Irishmen who were on the continent fighting because most people felt like that and 2) also the people of Dublin lived in absolutely terrible poverty thanks to Britain's rule, so they were probably annoyed that parts of the city had been destroyed and 3) the British had been claiming that the rising was part of a preparation for a German invasion of Ireland and that the rebels were German collaborators and 4) people thought this rising had ruined hopes for home rule after the war. Thankfully by then Sinn Fein was the chosen party of Ireland and people realised they could have more than Home Rule if they fought for it, and they did fight.

How have you come to that conclusion?

I think they desevre more respect than being called a 'motley bunch'. They had no illusions about what would happen when they went out that day (unless you think they were so stupid that they thought 1,600 men could defeat the British Empire in open combat), but they went out and fought anyway with nothing but love for their country and the believe that 'blood sacrifice' would 'save the nations soul', and they were right. I know alot of clowns and such like to badmouth and ridicule them (and everything related to Irish nationalism) these days but I would have been proud to have been among them, fighting the country occupying mine and asserting Irelands right to freedom.

Wow Flex -
Quoting from the History books has really shaken your tree:D

The Corinthian

Flex wrote:

2) also the people of Dublin lived in absolutely terrible poverty thanks to Britain's rule, so they were probably annoyed that parts of the city had been destroyed and

As opposed to the poverty that they lived under for the first 75 years of independence under Irish rule.

I mean seriously (other than how we bizarrely seem to still define our politics on events of a century ago), I had to grow up with this self-deluded propaganda taught in school; how somehow all of Ireland’s woes were down to the British. The reality is that Ireland, relative to much of Europe, was no worse off in 1900, than anyone else.

Had Parnell achieved Home Rule, those same people would just as badly off – but no doubt we’d have found a way to blame the British anyway. Just as we did after 1922. After all, it couldn’t have had anything to do with us, could it?

TBH, if there hadn’t been a famine, we’d have had to invent one.

constitutionus

Angry Banana wrote:

1. If a party doesn't come to your door, it does not mean they don't care. It means they don't have the man power to get there. I have never met a politician who said "I'm not going in there". I've met several who've begged for support though.

but the basic principal is the same, WHY dont they have any support in the area? surely if theyre doing a good job they can at LEAST get someone to drop in mail shots?what a politician SAYs is irrelevant, its what they do. and they dont preform actively in my area, as such dont get any support from locals and in the end DONT get the vote. the MAIN reasons politicians didnt canvas my area in MY opinion (so im open to correction) is because of the low turn out at elections. for example at the council elections before the most rescent the turn out was 28%:eek: abysmally low. so the politicans seemed to think "they dont vote so they dont matter".
LAST council elections the turn out was 60%:) (IRREGARDLESS of who you support this is good, democracy NEEDS large turnouts to stop it becoming compromised). and as a result nearly ALL the sitting councillors were kicked out . in fact theres only ONE pd and ONE FF councilor on my council (and even the FF guy is a guy in his twenties from the local communinty, NOT some pseudo aristocracy type whos DA was on the council before him)
P.S they most assuredly were scared to come in as well because theres PALPABLE anger in my area about what the government is up ,particularly seeing as its mainly PAYE workers pissed off about the bin tax so i wont be surprised if they dont turn up in 17months time either, especially labour, who brought that tax in (thank you deromt lacey)

angry bannana wrote:

[*]If you ask any doctor what would happen if you eat a cyanide sandwich, they'll tell you it'd be suicide. If you ask any economist what would happen if you voted for SF/IRA/HIV/AIDS, they'd tell you it'd be like eating a cyanide sandwich.

ah yes the economists, would these be guys like dan maglouchlan from bank of ireland who think the whole irish ferries thing is the way to go and that were all wrong to stop a company acting that way. or the other ones who keep telling us the housing marked is gonna bust any day now and that this government has stood over the LARGEST acculminaton of personal dept in the history of the state. fact is when the interest rates go up, and they WILL go up because we've lived through the longest period of low interest rates in recent EUROPEAN history, many of the people with houses out there are gonna end up in repo-ville. combine that with what OTHER economists are saying about the american economy in 2007 and we could see the multinationsals pulling out too, relocating to china india and north korea (who despite what some of you think are gearing themselves up to be the IT capital of the world, they have whole purpose built science city's for gods sake. and if you think we can compete against a regiem like that paying IT specialist 1 dollor a day your mad)

angry bannana wrote:

[*]You talk about voting SF/IRA/HIV/AIDS because you're working-class. You will stay that way unless the economy grows. Only if the economy grows can the working-class become wealthier.

first off i consider myself a constitutional republican, which means i DONT belive in a class sysem, an aristocracy or the impossition of privilage. and like it or not as a REPUBLIC thats what we are.
but its OBIVOUS this isnt what some people in politics believe, and anyone with a brain can see what vested interests in this country have done to look after their own arse.(see any of the tribunals. millions of quid, ONE bloke of significance goes down )
as stated MY reason for voting SF is because i want to improve the QUALITY of debate in the dail,which we dont get. need i remind you what a hot potato immigration is now at the moment? presonally i think once we accepted NICE that was the end of the issue, BUT all the mainstream parties at the LAST election made A PACT not to discuss the issue. now how is that healthy for democracy? what does it say about our main parties,what if they decide to do the same this time with health, or policing? oppositions are MENT to oppose, THATS why theyre there. SF will do that, the others wont because as posted earlier by another person, theres no REAL difference besides who's in the driving seat.

and by the way i resent the assumption that the sole purpose in modern life is to MAKE MONEY.:mad: Im not interested in being "wealthy", what i want is a DESCENT standard of living, public services paid for by my taxes that ACTUALLY work and to live in a SOCIETY where people look out for each other.NOT the souless corporate culture we live in now where people are so isolated they dont even know their own neighbour and wouldnt know they were DEAD til the smell. living in enviroments so unsecure that they spend ALL their working life praying theyre not downsized because they have a 35yr mortgage and hoping against hope the wife DOESNT get pregnant because they cant afford kids. and ALL of this against a backdrop of continous whittling away of rights and entitlements in the workplace

angry banana wrote:

[*]Please, please, please, differenciate between some idiot public/civil servant a decade ago and a current TD/Minister. If the Blood Transfusion Service inject people with green blood I will not consider Mary Harney responsible. I will, however, if she fails to address the situation.

micheal martin and mary harney,BOTH colluded in stealing money from pensioner up to LAST YEAR. thats not antiquity , thats BOTH incarnations of the PRESENT government (and im not to happy about the feckers in FG and LABOUR that were at it in their day) What happened to the file minister martin was MENT to get, IF it was destroyed WHY isnt the person responsible being investigated and charged with destruction of evidence? the government and subsequent governments KNEW this was illeagal, did everything in their power to stimy investigation and in the end tried to act UNCONSTITUTIONALLY to push it under the rug , forcing mary macallese for the FIRST time in my memory to actuall DO her job and refer the bill to the courts, now 2 BILLION of YOUR tax money will be used to compensate these people. these are NOT people i have faith in (although in fairness to mary, shes only just in the door and HAS brought it to a conculsion , but theres STILL the question about why nothing has been done to take FORMER minsiters to task:mad: )

angry bannana wrote:

[*]We are not a cut-throat capitalist country. Our relative poverty rate is the second-highest in the Western World. That's terrible, and I'll get into that at a later date; but I'd point you to Chad where relative poverty stands 80%, and God knows what the absolute poverty rate is. If we were a cut-throat capitalist system we would not have brought in a minimum wage, and we would have some private operators in transport.

the ONLY reason we have a minimum wage is because of the unions:rolleyes: if it was left the IBEC (the same people currently trying to dictate education policy)we wouldnt have one because its "uncompetative", the PDs are NOT in favor of the minimum wage and would be happy to see it go. hell the employers we're bemoaning the fact ours is so high, yet now it looks set to be the STANDARD wage of half the work force (its already 700k out of 2million, so were ALMOST there:rolleyes: )
also being capatilist ISNT just about wages , its the service as well, people are talking about privitising dublin bus but tell me this , how long do you think a private company will run UNPROFITABLE routes? there are pensioners down the road from me who lost their bus service because dublin bus merged two routes into one, now it takes 30minutes longer in journey time and the pensioners area is bypassed compleatly:eek: as its STILL a public company we can campaign to get it back with the help of local reps, but you'd have SOD all chance of that happening with a private company

angry bannana wrote:

[*]A major reason we had economic growth was membership of the EU. If we leave, we're f*cked. We, of all people, should be willing to "hand over" our menial decisions to Brussels.

agreed WHEN DID I SAY WE SHOULD LEAVE EUROPE , im sick to the back teeth of people jumping from one extreme to the other on this issue, denmark ISNT in the euro, but thery're STILL in the union. WE joined the EEC and it helped us IMMEASURABLY,and ive no problem with us trading goods with a common currency and having a free movement of labour. i DO have a problem with a EU CONSTITUTION that supercecede OUR OWN:mad: . im the FIRST generation of my family who can call himself an irish citizen and im SICKENED how quickly people seem to want to give away the sovereingty that people DIED for and members of my own family fought for, for a BIG bucket of cash. self determinaton is our RIGHT. and i'd rather be a piss poor country with FREEDOM than a rich one with all the power of rhode island in the USA.
and to be brutally honest can ANYONE actually tell me WHAT the EU is all about? we're expanding ALL the time and noone seems to know where the limit is. turkey? RUSSIA, will it absorb CHINA IN THE END no one knows because they havent a bloody clue . and remember the MORE members that join the LESS influence we have. the new accession countries for instance DONT have equal status to us, they have no veto (the MAIN reason i voted against the NICE treaty, i DONT believe in a yellow pack EU membership:mad: ) and if memory serves ratification of the EU constitution would have REMOVED ours. think LONG and hard on this because the ONLY guarenttee we currently have of the EU services directorate not being enacted is , you guessed it, the use of our veto.

Flex

The Corinthian wrote:

As opposed to the poverty that they lived under for the first 75 years of independence under Irish rule.

I mean seriously (other than how we bizarrely seem to still define our politics on events of a century ago), I had to grow up with this self-deluded propaganda taught in school; how somehow all of Ireland’s woes were down to the British. The reality is that Ireland, relative to much of Europe, was no worse off in 1900, than anyone else.

Actually around 1910, 39% of Dublin cities people lived in slums and had the worst death rates (from living conditions and the high infant mortality) in western europe; it was worse than Calcutta if i recall correctly, so ireland was a hell of a lot worse than most of Europe Id say

constitutionus

The Corinthian wrote:

As opposed to the poverty that they lived under for the first 75 years of independence under Irish rule.

I mean seriously (other than how we bizarrely seem to still define our politics on events of a century ago), I had to grow up with this self-deluded propaganda taught in school; how somehow all of Ireland’s woes were down to the British. The reality is that Ireland, relative to much of Europe, was no worse off in 1900, than anyone else.

Had Parnell achieved Home Rule, those same people would just as badly off – but no doubt we’d have found a way to blame the British anyway. Just as we did after 1922. After all, it couldn’t have had anything to do with us, could it?

TBH, if there hadn’t been a famine, we’d have had to invent one.

in fairness man , we DID have the highest infant mortality rate in the world.:D

Flex

ArthurF wrote:

Wow Flex -
Quoting from the History books has really shaken your tree:D

What does that mean, "shaken your tree"?

The Corinthian

Flex wrote:

Actually around 1910, 39% of Dublin cities people lived in slums and had the worst death rates (from living conditions and the high infant mortality) in western europe; it was worse than Calcutta if i recall correctly, so ireland was a hell of a lot worse than most of Europe Id say

Why don't you actually back that up with some facts?

constitutionus wrote:

in fairness man , we DID have the highest infant mortality rate in the world.:D

No we didn't - Russia did, followed by Germany, and apparantly ours was lower than most European nations:

http://www.neonatology.org/classics/graham.html