What .223?

Keelan

TomBeckett wrote:

to Vegeta
there is also a matter of range .223 is good up to about 500-600yds 220swift 1000yd+ depending that its blowing a gale of course i do a fair bit of practice with the swift and dont have a prob hitting barrell lids @1000yds

From my personell experience so far, the .223 is at its best out to 300yds and below.
I would also leave the 1000yd shooting to a very accurate 6.5x55.

Keelan

Sparks wrote:

That's why ear defenders are so important in shooting.

Sorry, ment to say death:rolleyes: Getting up before dawn this morning, does not help.:)

Keelan

Vegeta wrote:

So if the shooter is capable could he take a fox at 500 yards with a .223. I like the sound of cheaper ammo and less recoil. I am not a fan of heavy hitting rifles...people can call me a pansy but unfortunately I have a very bad jump reflex so loud noises combined with heavy recoil make me jump a mile. You should see me at the cinema when watching a thriller, my ass barely touches the seat.

Thanks for the info guys, now i suppose its back to the original posters question?? Which .223, I am liking the CZ Keelan has, I would love the Tikka but I'm not minted and the steyr scout tactical looks funky but if priced right might also be an option.

Vegeta, i would not advise taking shots at foxes beyond 300yds.
If you go with the CZ, you will not be disapointed, a lot of rifle for the money:)
You can also get the Hungarian version of my scope, which is half the price and just as good, ill be getting one for my 6.5 x 55 when i eventually apply for it.
Talking of which, does anybody know where Hungarian versions of the Smidt & bender are for sale?
Cheers.:)

Trojan911

Vegeta,

Jeffers in Bandon has one 2nd hand for sale at the moment, with scope mounts etc,think it is around the €850 mark. I paid €800 for mine off the shelf but with all the trimmings it has cost me around €1200 altogether.

Keelan,

Nice shooting, I am off out tonight for a quick lamp. I am using a 10-40 X 50 scope with 30mm tube. It does the trick alright. Gun is zeroed for 250yds. I have not seen a fox get up yet after being shot.

TJ911...

Keelan

Trojan911 wrote:

Keelan,

Nice shooting, I am off out tonight for a quick lamp. I am using a 10-40 X 50 scope with 30mm tube. It does the trick alright. Gun is zeroed for 250yds. I have not seen a fox get up yet after being shot.

TJ911...

Thanks TJ911. I was ment to ask you before, what mounts have you got on your CZ .223? Mine are sportsman match, but am thinking of changing to somethiong better.

Also, how high are you at 100 when you are zeroed at 250?
Cheers.

im sure that this has been covered somewhere else... but whats the difference between .22 and .223?

scorphonic

original_psycho wrote:

im sure that this has been covered somewhere else... but whats the difference between .22 and .223?

The .223 has a substantially longer and wider brass casing to the .22. The diameter of the bullet is only slightly larger than the .22 but the casing is much larger. The Irish army use the .223 in their steyr. Check out the photo below... The bullet on the left is the .223, and the third from the left is the .220 swift (big difference to the .22 isn't it):D



O and has anyone heard of a gold bullet?? Strange idea but here is one in 14 karat.

Could you stalk a deer with a .223 / .220 swift?

Keelan

original_psycho wrote:

im sure that this has been covered somewhere else... but whats the difference between .22 and .223?

The .22lr is a rimfire and the .223 is a centerfire.
Rimfire means the pin strikes the edge of the case, centerfire means it strikes the center of the primer.
Pic in attahment of the difference of the two, .223 on left and .22lr on right.

Keelan

original_psycho wrote:

Could you stalk a deer with a .223 / .220 swift?

No. The minimum caliber at present required by Ducas the wildlife department is a .22-250, using a 55 grain Soft Point Bullet.

Umiq88

you can use a swift

Keelan

scorphonic wrote:

The Irish army use the .223 in their steyr.

Its actually a 5.56 x 45mm that the army use. Their is a slight difference. It is not advisable to use 5.56 in a rifle that is chamberd for the .223, because of pressure problems. Link below explains everything:

http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#diff

Keelan

psittacosis wrote:

you can use a swift

No. You cant use a Swift.:rolleyes:

Clare gunner

[
O and has anyone heard of a gold bullet?? Strange idea but here is one in 14 karat.

[/QUOTE]

Proably a rich mans idea for killing upperclass werewolves????:D
Or you are the assasin in James Bond pic "the man with the golden gun"??
Or somones bright idea to make more money out of rich middle eastern folk,after flogging them a crate of gold plated AK 47s?

Umiq88

but isnt a swift a bigger round than a 22/250 im nearly certain i know a lad that uses a swift for deer

Keelan

Keelan wrote:

No. The minimum caliber at present required by Ducas the wildlife department is a .22-250, using a 55 grain Soft Point Bullet.

ehh.. .22-250 is what exactly...

I see ".22x" and automatically think of the .22lr that I use, which obviously are not the same

Umiq88

.22 is the diametre of the bullet on the pics above its the black part

theres rimfire and centrefire as already was explained .22lr and .22wmr are rimfire cartridges they are quite small and only used for small animals and target shooting

22/250 is i think the second from the left in the picture above but im not certain its between the .223 and .220swift in terms of power and size its a very fast and accurate round and the min calibre for deer

this might explain it a bit

Keelan

psittacosis wrote:

but isnt a swift a bigger round than a 22/250 im nearly certain i know a lad that uses a swift for deer

If the certain lad you know is using a Swift for deer, then he is breaking the law, unfortunately.
The Swift is very simmilar to the .22-250, their is hardly any difference, god knows why they said minimum .22-250, but that is just the way it is.:(
Pesonnaly, i have seen the 6.5 x 55 at work on deer and in my opinion it is the ultimate deer caliber, this would be the best caliber of the lot.

Clare gunner

The Swift is very simmilar to the .22-250, their is hardly any difference, god knows why they said minimum .22-250, but that is just the way it is.:(
Pesonnaly, i have seen the 6.5 x 55 at work on deer and in my opinion it is the ultimate deer caliber, this would be the best caliber of the lot.

[/QUOTE]

Simple really,Wildlife act 1976.Two years after the TCO.That was about the only big calibre rfle you could posses for deer here legally.
Burro crats and left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing,or the realities of shooting or the law gave us the usual mess of law.:rolleyes:

Trojan911

Keelan,

Not sure on the make of the mounts but I do know they were ordered specifically for my CZ527 by my dealer and I do recall seeing CZ527 on the packaging. They are 30mm high mounts & cost €107.00 & bed into the rifle when mounted.

My apologies, I was inaccurate with my zeroing. I am zeroed for 180yds but will still take a fox at 250yds with minimum movement to the crosshairs. I use a Bushnell range finder to judge distance where I think I am hitting the 250yd mark.

Incidently, I am lookin to learn more on the trajectory of the .223 bullet to maximise my shooting. Can you or anyone recommend some websites to further my knowledge on this?

Finally, do you lamp using a battery pack? if so are they worth investing in, how long do they last etc? Or do you lamp from your car off road using the cigarette lighter? The reason I ask is I blew the lighter fuse the other night and as this has never happened before. Is it a common thing? (think I will just arm myself with a load of spare fuses in future)....

Cheers


TJ911...

Keelan

Trojan911 wrote:

Keelan,

Not sure on the make of the mounts but I do know they were ordered specifically for my CZ527 by my dealer and I do recall seeing CZ527 on the packaging. They are 30mm high mounts & cost €107.00 & bed into the rifle when mounted.

My apologies, I was inaccurate with my zeroing. I am zeroed for 180yds but will still take a fox at 250yds with minimum movement to the crosshairs. I use a Bushnell range finder to judge distance where I think I am hitting the 250yd mark.

Incidently, I am lookin to learn more on the trajectory of the .223 bullet to maximise my shooting. Can you or anyone recommend some websites to further my knowledge on this?

Finally, do you lamp using a battery pack? if so are they worth investing in, how long do they last etc? Or do you lamp from your car off road using the cigarette lighter? The reason I ask is I blew the lighter fuse the other night and as this has never happened before. Is it a common thing? (think I will just arm myself with a load of spare fuses in future)....

Cheers


TJ911...

Hi TJ,
I use a deben battarie pack when out lamping. Its a 18 Amp-Hr, lasts for around 3 hrs, using a Lightforce scope mounted lamp.
I walk from feild to feild and call, if i dont see anything. I set up in one feild, stay for a while, then move on.
If their is lamp shy foxes in the area, i bait it for a day or 2 and then come before dawn into a hide and wait for day break.
The set up i have for lamping is in attachment below.
If you could get me the name of the mounts you have, i would be greatfull, cheers.:)

Rovi

Keelan wrote:

The set up i have for lamping is in attachment below.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm........... nice!
I hope the 'powers that be' don't get to see this picture of the rig on the good hall table :eek:


To Trojan911-
As I'm sure you already know, the only real way to get the maximum out of any rifle is to spend the time at a range with your own gun, firing your preferred ammunition, at the distances you expect to be shooting in the field.

That said, I like to use Shoot! (free for 30 days from- http://www.ballistics-software.com/) for this sort of theoretical exercise.
For example, for my rifle (Remington 700 LVSF, pictured earlier in this thread) with a scope height of 1.75 inches, firing Remington's Premier Express Rifle Core-Lokt Pointed Soft Point (55 grain) ammunition, a fox sized vital zone of 4 inches gives me optimum settings of a 190 metre zero and a point blank range of 220 meters.

Here's a grab of a section of the Ballistics Report-


As you can see, once it goes beyond 250 metres, things go downhill fast.
All this is with no allowance for wind, rain, darkness, etc.

Knowing how wobbly I am, I'd be wary of shooting at anything past 100 metres without some sort of support.
Your mileage may vary, of course


.

Keelan

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm........... nice!
I hope the 'powers that be' don't get to see this picture of the rig on the good hall table :eek:





.[/QUOTE]

Yes, i made sure the wife was out when i took the pic.;)

Terrier

Keelan wrote:

Hi TJ,
I use a deben battarie pack when out lamping. Its a 18 Amp-Hr, lasts for around 3 hrs, using a Lightforce scope mounted lamp.
I walk from feild to feild and call, if i dont see anything. I set up in one feild, stay for a while, then move on.
If their is lamp shy foxes in the area, i bait it for a day or 2 and then come before dawn into a hide and wait for day break.
The set up i have for lamping is in attachment below.
If you could get me the name of the mounts you have, i would be greatfull, cheers.:)

Do you find it easier with the lamp mounted to the side..? never taught of that.. :rolleyes:
I use the same dual battery pack, belt mounted with a lightforce striker 170, fitted with a red filter also..
. Use a small LED head lamp to walk around.. very good set up..

Keelan

Terrier wrote:

Do you find it easier with the lamp mounted to the side..? never taught of that.. :rolleyes:
I use the same dual battery pack, belt mounted with a lightforce striker 170, fitted with a red filter also..
. Use a small LED head lamp to walk around.. very good set up..

I put the lamp mounted on its side,, because it stops the light reflecting back to the scope off the front of the rifle. Its the only way it fits on the scope anyhow, if i try to mount it on top, the mounts get in the way.

Trojan911

Keelan,

I will make a phone call tomorrow re the mounts. Nice set up & I think I will have to go to battery pack as I've just blown another fuse in the car (wife not happy ) My set up is below.

Rovi,

Thanks for the advice. You are quite right about the practice, that is the only way I will know my rifle. Will look at this website....

Cheers.

TJ911...

Keelan

Trojan911 wrote:

Keelan,

I will make a phone call tomorrow re the mounts. Nice set up & I think I will have to go to battery pack as I've just blown another fuse in the car (wife not happy ) My set up is below.

Thanks TJ. Did you ever get light reflecting off the front of your rifle back to your scope?
I see you took the front sight ring off, prehaps that makes a difference?
Cheers.

thelurcher

I think this is a fairly good page for ballistics:
http://www.norma.cc/htm_files/javapagee.htm

Vegeta

thelurcher wrote:

I think this is a fairly good page for ballistics:
http://www.norma.cc/htm_files/javapagee.htm

That's a class website, any idea how accurate the figures are or what brand ammo they were using??

civdef

Mounts for the 527 can be hard to obtain, the old Hillver ones used to be good, but they went out of business.

Millet make a 527 mount, but it's fussy to fit.

My experience with this is about 5 years out of date, not sure if there were any developments since.