Quick Theory Q re completing the small blind

ianmc38

Ste05 wrote:

and since 3 7's are gone, I'm not even thinking of these.

Lol, yeah noone could ever have the other 7. Ever.

marius

Culchie wrote:

Marius, of you have AA in the BB and a whole heap of limpers, you want to get his narrowed down to one or two (max) callers, so you should be raising agressively.

You've only got 4 opportunities to put chips into the pot, the rest of the table has given you a great head start, I'd be betting the pot here at the very least.

No-one in their right mind is going to fold to your min raise, even though you have got AA stamped to your forehead.

yeah - might have jumped the gun a bit there - guess the notes would be pretty accurate then
as an aside - would you ever limp with aces with more than one limper before you?

califano

Gholimoli wrote:

i cant stop laughing now.
now im picturing my self as that.
"Gholi Maw ,Gholi Maw":D

Gholimoli at work.

Culchie

marius wrote:

yeah - might have jumped the gun a bit there - guess the notes would be pretty accurate then
as an aside - would you ever limp with aces with more than one limper before you?

Sure, if NTLBell was on my left.

Ste05

ianmc38 wrote:

Lol, yeah noone could ever have the other 7. Ever.

I wouldn't be scared in any shape or fashion. I'd say about 96% (random high percentage, probably far too low) of the time they won't, if you're worried about it then fair play, I certainly wouldn't be. I'd be more worried about what falls on the turn or river and what hands could beat me then. If I can get it all-in on a non connected/ suited flop then I'm happy away (normally).

Culchie

ianmc38 wrote:

Lol, yeah noone could ever have the other 7. Ever.

Another one sentence gem taken from paragraphs of input... I'll add a 'lol' as well.

Fear of what 'could' be out there versus what 'probably' is out there are two very different things.

Hectorjelly

Drakar wrote:

I know a number of good players have mentioned that they just break even completing the sb (looking at their pokertracker stats).

No one breaks even from the small blind

Hectorjelly

Can anyone tell me how often you flop 2 pair or better with 72o? (or any unpaired hand), because that seems kind of crucial for the argument.

wayfarer

3(6/50)(5/49) = 3.67% by my maths

thats just for hands that can't flop a straight of flush.

(11/50)(10/49)(9/48) = 0.84% chance of two suited cards flopping a flush.

4*6*(4/50)(4/49)(4/48) = 1.31% chance of connecting cards making a straight.

so suited connectors flop two pair or better 5.82% of the time etc.

btw some of those numbers could very easily be out

Hectorjelly

So does it seem profitable to complete with 72o for the 4% odd times you flop 2 pair, baring also in mind that if you flop 2 pair it will nearly always be the worst 2 pair.

Ste05

As in you wouldn't complete with any 2, if not where would your completing range begin??

Hectorjelly

That depends on how many limpers there are. With a lot of limpers a hand like k2o is not worth playing, but 56o definitely is. Against just the button then K2 a much better proposal. I dont really have any set guidelines, but auto completing the sb is definitely a mistake.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Some very interesting responses in this thread. It seems that it is not always right to complete the small blind, but the question is instead - what range of cards you should complete with depending on the number of callers.

Would anyone disagree with the following?

1) with a number of limpers:must be at least connectors, or near-connectors

2) against just the big blind and the button: at least something like K-2. Or, should it be any two cards?

3) against just the big blind: any two cards

Gholimoli

Roundtower2 wrote:

Some very interesting responses in this thread. It seems that it is not always right to complete the small blind, but the question is instead - what range of cards you should complete with depending on the number of callers.

Would anyone disagree with the following?

1) with a number of limpers:must be at least connectors, or near-connectors

2) against just the big blind and the button: at least something like K-2. Or, should it be any two cards?

3) against just the big blind: any two cards

Well this I suppose is good enough guide lines but the point is this:
With many ppl in the pot you want to complete with hands that play well multi way.
Playing well multi way means you either loose a little or win big such as suited connectors ,small to mid PP playing for set value etc.with these hands you can expect to win enough to at least break even in the long run if you complete.
Example you have 22 and the flop is A2Q .even though you don’t hit your set often to justify your immediate odds for calling but you have enough implied odds to justify the call because you can expect to get paid when you do.
Will less ppl in the pot then you want to play hands that play well HU or maybe 3way at most! Cards such as Ax ,Kx, any two suited cards etc.